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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Official SWTOR Review

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370 posts found
  ikkeno

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/07
Posts: 64

1/09/12 4:05:00 PM#321

Its boring. Just like all newer mmorpg's. Easy, boring, mirrored, restrained.. Only things to do are PvP, quests or Flashpoints. Datacrons are finished in a few hours at best and crafting is automated.


 


Dull and not worth more than a month or two of sub.


- Nothing lasts.. but nothing is lost. -

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

1/09/12 7:27:02 PM#322

I dont see SWTOR as an innovative MMO. But does it have to be? They brought you a Star Wars experience. It is up to you to decide if that is worth the box and sub.


The reviewers on this website seem to make the same mistake. The score doesnt reflect the article in several cases. The high score seems more to just express their current enjoyment with the game, which I believe with no doubt. But I also think that this is the wrong way to write a review because it lacks the much needed objectivity. Their own reviewing system gave them this problem.


The moment you put innovation and aesthetics as measurement, but not 'fun' (I know it cant be objectively measured) in a reviews score, it means that you can score bad in those departments, while the game still can feel highly enjoyable to you (you can give those features a 6, while the game feels like a 10 for you atm). This is where it goes wrong. The reviewers are afraid that the end number will give the wrong impression. So they try to 'correct' the different category scores to put them in line with the endscore. But the endscore here is the subjective score in this case, because it reflects their enjoyment with the game, which cant be divided just like that in these categories.


So this reviewing system simply wont work. The only way it could work is to compare the release with the goal that the developers had in mind and how they lived up to their promises. Did they manage to do it?


Then next to that compare things with other MMO's that can be compared. Like payment model, aestetics, combat, UI (needs a seperate section), etc. Use the Pro/Con list for this too, but leave out an endscore! Why? Because players are all different. Some dont give a shit about graphics, while others not about the UI. So you cant create an average endscore from this that has any meaning.


  jarzium

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/09
Posts: 40

1/09/12 7:46:27 PM#323

coming directly from KOTOR and Mass Effect 2, SWTOR is really a good extension of those two games. i've always been a solo player in WoW and EQ2, so i'm ok that most of this game can be solo. 


cut scenes and voiceovers are fantastic, i usually have the habit of muting the sound while playing songs on my itunes, but with SWTOR, i totally enjoy listening to the background music and the dialogue. i look forward to the story quests and surprisingly, with 1 main and 1 alt, i didn't feel like i was doing the entire thing again - although the side quests do get a bit too repetitive after a while. 



i will give it a 7.5/10 even though i really enjoy the game. key features like LFG function, advance guild system are sorely missing. i don't care if SWTOR has the most stable launch of all the other MMORPGS, it should be a given that game launches are stable. 

  m0j0r1s1ng

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 5

1/09/12 8:05:16 PM#324



Originally posted by Valentina



I love this game. It's innovative in many ways because it brings so much into the MMORPG genre that has been desperately needed for so long.











 




such as? just saying it's true doesn't make it so.





 

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

1/09/12 9:22:55 PM#325
Originally posted by m0j0r1s1ng



Originally posted by Valentina



I love this game. It's innovative in many ways because it brings so much into the MMORPG genre that has been desperately needed for so long.











 



such as? just saying it's true doesn't make it so.





 

Innovative in the way it's missing:

 

 

  • Swimming
  • Third party addons
  • Minigames like card games or slot gamers
  • Dual spec
  • Day/night cycles
  • Non humanoid based playable races
  • Planetary housing
  • Housing furnishing
  • Animal based pet classes
  • Resources for crafting that do have quality
  • Complex crafting system
  • Guild leveling system
  • Animal mounts
  • Flying mounts
  • PvP Arenas
  • Collision detection between characters
  • Macros
  • Barber / Image Designer
  • Appearance tabs
  • Fishing
  • Guild "Tabard"
  • Multiplayer mounts
  • Gear Dyes
  • Shared storage bank slots
  • In game voice chat
  • LFG tool
  • Guild bank
  • Incentives for socialization
  • Character extended body customization
  • 3 Factions RvR
  • Wolrd PvP
  • RPG tools
  • Underwater content
  • 3d exploration
 
  pwain

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 124

1/10/12 2:25:21 AM#326

I enjoy crafting


  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

1/10/12 3:00:51 AM#327

Some of the thinks you linked Deewe I agree with, some not so much.

Swlimming: There are bigger design limitation of the game here than swimming I'm afraid. No planet feels big enough to give you that planetary feeling. The best you can get out of most of them is the general theme of the planet. Overal however pretty much every planet feels rather confined, even on dry land.

Third party addons: Are not really that big a priority when things like guild banks and improved guild management functionality is missing.

Minigames: Could be included and make cantinas a bit more lively and a reason to hang around. There is no reason to visit a cantina at this point.

Dual spec: See what I wrote above about the game missing basic modern MMO functionality.

Day/night circle: And general lifeless environment, even on big cities. The whole world seems static, like you're running inside a pretty picture or a painting and not a virtual world.

Non humanoid races: Something to look forward to, perhaps in a content expansion. At least the interesting story promotes alt-itis more than any other MMO I've played.

Planetary housing: imho not that important since you have your own spaceship. Too bad you can't decorate it.

Animal based pet classes: imho again, not important enough, unless you're talking about little companion pets. In any case, I've never been much of a critter collector. The companions and the general crafting system works rather well, although the chance of discovery of improved recipes is greately nerfed at level 50.

Complex crafting system: I think that the crafting system is diverce enough and simple enough to make it enjoyable. I have more issues with the RNG involved with the PvP gear upgrade than with what is produced via the crafting system.

Mounts: There is a good diversion of mechanical mounts. I don't know how a non mechanical mount would fit in in terms of speed comparison with the machanical equivalents. As for flying mounts, the majority of planets are small and just give the illusion of size due to the pathing restrains. If you remove that, you just expose the lack of the game's size.

PvP arenas: Good god I sure hope not. Of course I'm more of a patron of the open world PvP and arenas are an anathema to that. Open PvP means group PvP, while arenas are for individuals and related specs as a general rule of thump.

Collision detection: I very much doubt the engine can support it. For me it's not a good or a bad thing, it's more of a there is or there isn't, just like the instanced vs open world design.

Appearance tabs, barbers etc: A functionality that could eventually appear.

Fishing: In Tattoine (j/k). Never saw the novelty of it and I very much doubt a good portion of people would bother with it if the developers wouldn't strap on the activity a bazzilion achievement.

Ingame voice chat: Not necessary, third party tools are adequate and in most cases offer better sound quality.

3 faction RvR: Are you sure we're playing the same game? Who's going to be the third faction, the Mantalorians? I could see how this game would work if you were thrown in this world with no previous alegiences and you chose your path, but right now a third faction that can stand toe in toe with the other two seem improbable.

World PvP: There is an attempt at Ilum, unfortunately it pays better to let the opposite side capture your points so you can recapture them than actually fight to defend them. The whole setup smells of WARhammer and the reasons the world PvP didn't work that well there as well.

You mentioned more stuff, but they were duplicates of things you already mentioned so I skipped them.

 

Personally I think it's quite a good game if you expect to experience a KOTOR storyline and have a couple of your friends join you on rare occassions. At this point SW:TOR is not a "world" of star wars, but it gives more the feeling that you're walking in a Hollywood wooden set than an alternate vitrual universe.

  Blindchance

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/09
Posts: 1079

1/10/12 4:28:53 AM#328

Another over hyped game and a review which hides the obvious faults of SWOTR and present MMORPG copycatting.


I have more long term replayability in Battlefield 3 or a good stand alone RPG then in any recent and incoming MMORPG.


  ukforze

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/06
Posts: 367

1/10/12 4:40:26 AM#329
Originally posted by elocke

Yes, crafting is fun.  For once in an MMO I'm not bored to tears by it and every character I play utilized it to the highest degree.

Then DONT craft, it's obviously not your thing!!!

Crafting should be a dedicated class for people who ENJOY it & are dedicated to

providing a service to other players, crafting was ruined by the likes of WoW as a

crappy cookie cutter after thought to bloat the game with something else to do.

 

Stick to PVE or PVP if you don't like crafting, it's only the same as the whinners

who cry they get ganked whilst questing, because they join PVP servers!

 

Same dance, differnet song.

The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR

  ukforze

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/06
Posts: 367

1/10/12 4:44:40 AM#330
Originally posted by Deewe

 Innovative in the way it's missing:

 

 

  • Swimming
  • Third party addons
  • Minigames like card games or slot gamers
  • Dual spec
  • Day/night cycles
  • Non humanoid based playable races
  • Planetary housing
  • Housing furnishing
  • Animal based pet classes
  • Resources for crafting that do have quality
  • Complex crafting system
  • Guild leveling system
  • Animal mounts
  • Flying mounts
  • PvP Arenas
  • Collision detection between characters
  • Macros
  • Barber / Image Designer
  • Appearance tabs
  • Fishing
  • Guild "Tabard"
  • Multiplayer mounts
  • Gear Dyes
  • Shared storage bank slots
  • In game voice chat
  • LFG tool
  • Guild bank
  • Incentives for socialization
  • Character extended body customization
  • 3 Factions RvR
  • Wolrd PvP
  • RPG tools
  • Underwater content
  • 3d exploration
 

 

So basically SWG with some WoW content, sounds liek a plan, go make it plz

The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR

  Balrogiis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/23/04
Posts: 10

1/10/12 7:05:55 AM#331

Reviewer is being too nice. The "Asthetics" need to be droped to a 1. The character models, even the aliens, look like f****** buzz light year. This is the worst BioWare game to date. Forget the attetion to detail, interesting level design, lively light textures and colors that you are used to with MassEffect or Dragon Age. Welcome to a world of mud and what appear to be randomly genorated levels that consist of halls and giant f****** rooms. Even AnarchyOnline's "random level genorator" genorates better levels than whatever level designer actually took time to make something this bad. The combat system is just as bland and boring as any other MMORPG out there, hard to knock it too hard here because it's neither good nor bad, just blah or bleh. The story lines are garbage, and they MAKE you sit though them, yes, MAKE you listen to the crappy dialogue between Sherif Woody and Buzz Light Year.


Instead of buying this game, pop in ToyStory, turn your colors almost off on your tv, and play a StarWars sound track and you will have the basic idea except the ToyStory story line is a little more interesting.


  User Deleted
1/10/12 9:03:42 AM#332

Originally posted by Balrogiis

Reviewer is being too nice. The "Asthetics" need to be droped to a 1. The character models, even the aliens, look like f****** buzz light year. This is the worst BioWare game to date. Forget the attetion to detail, interesting level design, lively light textures and colors that you are used to with MassEffect or Dragon Age. Welcome to a world of mud and what appear to be randomly genorated levels that consist of halls and giant f****** rooms. Even AnarchyOnline's "random level genorator" genorates better levels than whatever level designer actually took time to make something this bad. The combat system is just as bland and boring as any other MMORPG out there, hard to knock it too hard here because it's neither good nor bad, just blah or bleh. The story lines are garbage, and they MAKE you sit though them, yes, MAKE you listen to the crappy dialogue between Sherif Woody and Buzz Light Year.




Instead of buying this game, pop in ToyStory, turn your colors almost off on your tv, and play a StarWars sound track and you will have the basic idea except the ToyStory story line is a little more interesting.





 




LOL, nearly spat my coffee on the Keyboard. 


  Punkre

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/06/09
Posts: 97

1/10/12 9:21:39 AM#333

Crafting should never be a dedicated class or function of a MMO. Its not a end of a means, its a means to an end.


I do support the concept of having it give good or great rewards if you take the time to work with it, and for those of my friends that have been working with the crafting system of swtor have gained really nice upgrades while leveling.


The asthetics will only be an issue if you think the game should have been done with realistic graphics, in which case your an idiot because you don't understand that realistic graphics look worse the longer a game is out. Simple is cleaner.


I found most of the storylines to be fun and enjoyable, and most people seem to agree that are playing the game. I do admit that the game does not really work in a solid end game experience though, which may end up being its down fall. For right now the game highly promotes alts to a degree no other mmo has. 


I will never understand the gripes about people needing to be able to wit in chairs and have massive water areas to swim in. It doesn't serve a purpose, you know the last time I swam in a large pool of water? 2 years ago. Why does this needed to be included in swtor or the game is crap? day night cycles? hey I need to know what the server thinks its day or night... cus that matters. 


It does have innovation, just not as much and in an area that people on this site think it should be in or as much. I couldn't go back to a MMO with text box questing.


  Celebereg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 38

1/10/12 11:50:56 AM#334
Story as a pillar, Mike? Have you ever played another MMO, Mike? Every MMO I've played may not have been voiced, but line for line had more text/story per quest than the rote TOR "go do this, and get bonus quest to kill 15-50 mobs" at every stranger represented by an NPC. Lotro quests had a good 4x the volume of story associated with the typical quest, by my estimate. And yes, quest-givers in TOR are strangers, every NPC is another stranger in a long list of strangers. The charm and depth of Star Wars (or any story other than perhaps Conan the Barbaian) is the ensemble cast that progresses character development and adds an environment we can engage as players in a story. Here, there's no Leia, no Han, no Chewie, just one stranger after another doling out the next mundane quest. Now, they could have and could still give us that ensemble cast via our crew characters, and the rare times they speak up start to have that affect, but they are so rare as to be absent, and we're rating the game on how it is today, right, Mike? I'm sorry, but the Story element is not something TOR can claim as a strength. Voice, yes, Story, no way. Aside, their customer service is in crisis mode, they don't respond anywhere near their quoted standard (24 hours), and in my multiple experiences is 3 to 5 weeks, or never. They have their forums in crisis mode, fire fighting, with Polls, Search, and even viewing your own posts disabled, providing zero value as a resource to players. They have limited forum categories, ignoring MMO 101, so that the outcome is that any posts made by players are buried on page 50 in 30 minutes regardless of which few forums you post in, including Customer Service Forum. There are no forums for servers, so finding guilds in your server is nearly impossible, and there's likewise no forums for such things as Suggestions/Feedback, Website/Forums Feedback, Companions, UI Discussion, or even Quests/Mission Discussion... A travesty of service value and competency in managing an MMO. Finally, as a player for some time through testing, you just want off the theme park sometimes, and every planet/environment is just another theme park, whether on the rails of a planet or another, or space combat. For goodness sakes, an MMO can't be all theme park, it's so confining you want to scream.
  catlana

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1684

Playing GW2, ToR, PoE
Played AoC, Aion, DDO, EQ2, CoH, Rift, TERA, WAR, WoW

1/10/12 12:16:41 PM#335

Originally posted by ZoeMcCloskey

Good game, plan to be in it for a long long time.  But I almost always have 3-5 games I am playing to keep myself from burning out too soon on any one of them :)




Right now though SWToR is eating up all my time, hehehe.  Just too much fun.





 


Yeah, I typically run a couple of subs as well.  The Old Republic simply has been a lot of fun and consuming my time. 


Funny enough I thought that the simplied art style would bother me. I have been pleasantly surprised at how much the art style allows you to focus more on the story and its environment. 


 


Crafting in most games really blows. In The Old Republic crafting has been pretty good for me at least (Biochem & Cyber). 


  Silmas

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 13

1/10/12 1:35:46 PM#336

I already rated this game in another thread. (6/10)


And i am really interested what will happen on 20.01.2012 where the already paid subscription will end.


Then we will see the reail rating of all the subscribers.


  MMOGamer71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1518

1/10/12 1:39:22 PM#337
Originally posted by Silmas

I already rated this game in another thread. (6/10)


And i am really interested what will happen on 20.01.2012 where the already paid subscription will end.


Then we will see the reail rating of all the subscribers.

FYI there is no already paid subscription it is 30 days of "free play" which is standard in MMO's.

My guess is that it's the 7+ crowd that stays, like in any other MMO whether it's P2P or F2P.  Why would someone rate a game a 4 and then stay with it?

  GMan3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

1/10/12 4:16:23 PM#338
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by GMan3
Originally posted by maccajnr

The only good part of swtor is the voice over. The problem is that Bioware has probably put too much money and effort into it, and not into the rest of the game.

And while I like voice over, I'm on my 2nd character now, and I now tend to skip the non-class quest conversation. The other quests are just repeats.

    I now have 8 characters and have yet to skip ANY of the VO content.  I am sure that some of it might get a little boring sooner or later, but it beats skipping ALL of the Quest Text like I normally

The reason why I stay playing, is because it's a star war game.  Most part are pretty basics:

- quests are simple: kill x or collect x.

    Seriously, how many games do not do this?  There are only so many types of quests you can do and yes, they get recycled, just like every other game out there.  At least in this one you get a choice for WHY you are doing the quests and in many missions I have done now, your decision of why or how changes the actual parameters of the missions.  Pretty cool in my opinion.  Sure beats "Yes, I will do it" or "No, not this time" like almost every other game out there.

- space combat is a mini solo game.

    Loving the Space Game.  Nice change of pace when you just don't have time for a normal quest OR are waiting on something (crafting).  I do admit I hope they listen to the players and add a more in-depth Space Simulator later on, but I really hope they keep the system they have as well.

- crafting is way too simple

    I get a variety of crafting missions, some of which are not the ones I need to do for the recipe I have, since they are randomized.  I have a chance for critical succes and failure.  I get to deconstruct items to recover some materials AND have a chance for learning a better way to craft that item (more advanced gear).  Overall much better than gathering 10 things to use to craft 5 things to use to craft the one thing I need for ONE part of a recipe for my actual gear recipe.  MUCH BETTER IN MY OPINION.

- many many many bugs. None of the bugs I reported during beta are yet to be fixed.

    Most times I do not like calling people a liar, but I am sorely tempted here.

- graphics are basics

    The basic graphics have been known for about a year now.  If they bother you this much still then you probably never should have bought the game.  Just a thought.

- no long term end game

    This game has just as much endgame as most games out for years now.  In fact more than most.  It also has TONS more than most games when are released.  But I guess if you do not want to do flashpoints on "Hard Mode" or worse, Raids, PvP, questing, or crafting at end game than you might be right.

- ... and many more, the list is simple too long

    Just trying to be a Devil's Advocate here.  In RED above.


Well, I'm glad you resisted the temptation to call him a liar on the bugginess, because this is the buggiest launch I've played in some time. Some are the same obvious bugs you see every single time you play, while others are new and associated with content you are just reaching for the first time. For the most part, they are minor bugs, but many are so obvious that it's clear they just haven't been fixed because they are too far down the priority list of bug fixes to have been worked on yet. (I'm thinking that list is pretty long).

    I think you and I have VERY different definitions of a buggy launch.  I have yet to not be able to play the game when I wanted too (excluding times they were patching or conducting maintenance of course), nor have I had a single mission that I could not complete.  I will admit that there have been bugs, but they just have not risen to the same level as most other games released in the last few years.

Also, what are you talking about regarding quests? I have never had my choices effect the details of a quest or the requirements. Your class can effect a few of the quests that are shared with other classes. You can end up having to do an additional quest if your light side/ dark side choice means you haven't satisfied a quest giver, but the story doesn't branch and the quests don't change based on your dialogue.

    Just to give one example here, I ran into a mission with one toon that I was given the choice of destroying a facility OR killing the scientists running it (obvious lightside / darkside thinking here).  On that toon I decided to kill the scientists and found it rather fun, but short.  On another toon I decided to destroy the facilty and that ended up being a long and more involved quest.

On my Imperial Agent Operative, I routinely tell the Sith to go stuff it, but they keep entrusting me with their most sensative missions. I'll get an occassional bit of dialogue scolding me for being too concerned about civilian lives, but even fighting the Empire every step of the way as a Light Side Imperial, nothing has played out any different due to my choices, aside from the occassional "well, you failed this, so go do that" additional quest step.

    Yep, the WHY you are doing a quest as I talked about earlier.  Nice to have that in this game.  So much better than just "Yes or No", though you either do not agree or just don't get it.

The problem(s) with crafting are that it's far too dependant on the RNG (Random Number Generator), whether it be Reverse Engineering to try to get the blue (and then purple) schematic, or hoping for exceptional gear, it's all about the RNG. If you are lucky, you may make a profit, if not, you will go broke. Also, the economy is a mess because crafting was never balanced with the economy in mind. Sometime's you are gates by "common" materials that end up being too rare in practice, which boosts market prices for those materials. The rare and epic materials are so rare, that whether you send your companions on missions, or buy them on the market, you will never get them at a price that allows a profit, except for the rare RNG blessed exceptional results. (A lot of times, there are NPC sold alternatives for things, either straight cash, commendation based or based on other currencies, which end up capping the price you can charge even for the better wares you manage to produce).

    As I said earlier, I just don't have a problem here.  I think that the difference might be that I realize crafting is meant to be a money sink with the possibility of making a profit, not a guarantee.  The RNG conributes to this.  I also have NEVER run into a problem getting "common" items.  Heck, even the "rare" items seem to drop pretty regularly.

The results are a mess, with some crafted goods flooding the market and forcing people to sell at 70% of the automatically recommended prices (which already are too low to produce profit), other items are far too rare, because most crafters after getting repeatedly burned just stop trying to sell certain items. You'd think scarcity would raise prices and profits, but the resistance vs. price levels that are able to produce profits are so high that you just can't sell enough for things to balance out.

    Complaining about economy in a game that is less than a month old?  A little early don't you think?  Shoot, we haven't even have enough time for the level 50s to start driving up inflation yet.

Most people just don't have the money to spend. The cash sinks are so severe that most people who keep pace with their skills and obtain or upgrade "mounts" when able to just don't have enough cash to support the economy. Nerfing slicing made things worse, not better, because that money not only could help subsidize crafters, but it was a major source of disposable income for people who don't craft to use to buy crafted goods.

    On all my toons but one, I have managed to keep well ahead of the curve on the money situation through MODERATE crafting.  Yes, that means my level 30 toons are not 400 in all of the crew skills yet, oh well.  As for slicing, it was overpowered to begin with.  I admit they went to little to heavy on nerfing it (in my opinion) but being able to make a 500% profit when you skill is only 120 was rediculous.

Don't get me started on Modifiable Items. Cool idea on paper, but the economy needed to be balanced around it, which didn't happen. They should have just given players what they wanted, either transferable skins or an appearance tab, rather than insisting on doing it their way, which has just created a mess in the player driven economy.

    Again you are complaining about the economy of a game that is less than a month old.  Too early.  Especially since I manage to keep my orange items fully slotted with blue enhancements WITHOUT cutting into my available training cash or crafting funds.  It really is rather easy to do.

    In RED again.

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  DLangley

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 1430

1/10/12 4:19:29 PM#339

Let's watch the baiting guys. Thanks.

  tachgb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/02
Posts: 774

1/10/12 8:26:44 PM#340

Nice review, best MMORPG I've played since 2006, loving this game and having a blast playing with friends. :)


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