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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The best pricing model for the consumer: B2P with content cash-shop

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  User Deleted
1/09/12 10:08:06 PM#41
Originally posted by skyexile

I dont think B2P with a content cash shop is going to generate the revenue requred to maintain a proper MMO(read: not peer-peer) bandwidth costs for an MMO are huge, and it goes up exponentially the more players they;re supporting, its fine for games on battlenet or arena net or any other sort of net made from the massive creativity of ex blizzard developers. But for a proper MMO i cant see it work, and its likly developers and publishers feel the same way.

First, it's no longer true that bandwidth costs are huge.  The first Guild Wars earns enough money in residual earnings, despite not having put out paid content since 2007 to pay for the bandwidth for all 5 of NCSoft's games (Lineage 1&2, Aion, GW, CoH).  Check out this video someone linked above for proof or look up the quarterly reports yourself.  WTF No Subscription Fee

 

Second, I have no idea why costs would go up exponentially with more people.  If anything, they should go up linearly or even decrease per person.  In any case, costs due to more people are covered by the fact that you have more people paying.  And the fact that these costs are only a small fraction of the costs of developer salaries.

If both the above points you make are true, how could F2P games even exist? Vastly more people play, and the average per person might only be $3 a month instead of $15.

 

Third, if it is fine for battlenet or arenanet or creative developers, then other developers should step up their game or risk going out of business.  Why should we subsidize people who are charging more when other companies can do it and charge less?  I mean, yeah, if it's a small indie company with a vision you want to support, sure, but supporting a AAA publisher this way?

 

Fourth, to quote Jeff Strain, cofounder of ArenaNet... "many people believe that the completely instantiated world was the reason for Guild Wars 1 to not need monthly fees. This is completely wrong! The existence or lack of a persistent world is totally unrelated to the running expenses which are needed to maintain an online roleplaying game."

 

The reason that B2P hasn't caught on is because developers that are raking in cash (or would love to have their games be a hit so that they can also rake in cash) with P2P games have no reason to educate the public.  I would love for GW2 (or any other B2P game) to be a massive hit and make people really question why they're paying a sub.  Until then, it's just not going to happen, people will continue to say "it's cheaper than the movies" and continue to pay up.

 

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

1/09/12 10:14:22 PM#42
Originally posted by skyexile

I dont think B2P with a content cash shop is going to generate the revenue requred to maintain a proper MMO(read: not peer-peer) bandwidth costs for an MMO are huge, and it goes up exponentially the more players they;re supporting, its fine for games on battlenet or arena net or any other sort of net made from the massive creativity of ex blizzard developers. But for a proper MMO i cant see it work, and its likly developers and publishers feel the same way.

This was true at one point, but the internet is no longer infantile and things like bandwith are cheap and easy to come by. Someone above posted a link to a stock report that gives more information, but this is actually something that's been known about for a while. This is why companies like Perfect World, Aeria Games and Nexon can host several (even dozens) of games all with thousands if not millions of people playing them, across the globe, all F2P, and still make out like bandits even though the larger majority of people don't spend much (if anything) in the cash shop.

 

That you need to pay $15 a month to keep a game alive is a myth, and has been for a long time. If you push out quality content, people will buy it, and that's all the revenue you need. B2P models entice people because the lack of sub fee makes them feel like they don't HAVE to play just to get their money's worth, so more people are willing to buy it, thus it can be priced cheaper and still prove profitable. Sort of like, selling twice as much of something because you put it out for half price. 

 

People just can't grasp that a company isn't as concerned with windfall profits as it is making a decent game. Isn't that the way it used to be, back in the day...you know, when we didn't have a new game coming out every five minutes?

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1059

1/09/12 10:14:22 PM#43

Best for consumer? Perhaps not. Why? Because games are becoming more and more expensive to develop and to maintain. The B2P model easily generates less revenue than the P2P model. This means the developer is more limited budget-wise and therefore more limited on what it can do with the game.

Games with costly IP's and ambitious ideas can't realize their goals without the added revenue. It is simply not possible to develop and maintain a 100+ million dollar project with an extremely costly IP using the B2P model.

  sazabi

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 396

1/09/12 10:17:27 PM#44

b2p with content cash shop is bad.

why?

lets see... remember the times when we would get game patches for free? with more than a few maps and some new features?

well those times are pretty much over. now if you want a new piece of content you have to buy it.

those short DLCs cost as much as expansions some time ago yet they dont offer even nearly as much content.

hopefully things like battlefield 3 karkand dlc right at goddamn launch wont be inspiration for developers, because its definitely a rip off. 'oh look we sell a full price game with half assed maps so if you want better ones go and buy them trololo'.

 

some say that content cash shop is great, because you can skip the stuff that you dont want to buy.

whats the solution here exactly? to go and make such shop? or... simply make quality content that people would like to play instead of putting a lot of fillers. look at DDO - you can buy pretty much every dungeon separately. is that good? ofcourse it would be if most of them were good quality content. but they are not.

lets not for get the good old buy 100 coins, get piece of content for 51 coin and youll have 49 useless coins left untill you buy another coin pack. freakin ridiculous and most companies are actually doing this retarded trick.

 

personally i like guild wars model the best.

 

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

1/09/12 10:22:30 PM#45
Originally posted by sazabi

b2p with content cash shop is bad.

why?

lets see... remember the times when we would get game patches for free? with more than a few maps and some new features?

well those times are pretty much over. now if you want a new piece of content you have to buy it.

those short DLCs cost as much as expansions some time ago yet they dont offer even nearly as much content.

hopefully things like battlefield 3 karkand dlc right at goddamn launch wont be inspiration for developers, because its definitely a rip off. 'oh look we sell a full price game with half assed maps so if you want better ones go and buy them trololo'.

 

some say that content cash shop is great, because you can skip the stuff that you dont want to buy.

whats the solution here exactly? to go and make such shop? or... simply make quality content that people would like to play instead of putting a lot of fillers. look at DDO - you can buy pretty much every dungeon separately. is that good? ofcourse it would be if most of them were good quality content. but they are not.

lets not for get the good old buy 100 coins, get piece of content for 51 coin and youll have 49 useless coins left untill you buy another coin pack. freakin ridiculous and most companies are actually doing this retarded trick.

 

personally i like guild wars model the best.

 

I'm with you, and then I'm not. I agree that in the era of DLC, developers have started charging expansion-sized prices for content that clears in a couple of hours, which is always a concern for me. Right now the only game I know that's going B2P for certain is Guild Wars 2 (I remember reading that TSW was considering it as well, but don't quote me on it) and their expansions were sooooo worth the price. They were literally their own games. That's the way it should be. I have no problem with throwing $40 at a developer for a full-blooded expansion.

 

But yeah, the 'DLC' type stuff...that kind of irks me. I dislike having to pay $10 just to buy a class that should already be part of the game. Charge me $20 and throw in its own storyline, starting area, land and quests backed by lore and I dunno...effort, and then we'll talk.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

1/09/12 10:29:23 PM#46
Originally posted by stealthbr

Best for consumer? Perhaps not. Why? Because games are becoming more and more expensive to develop and to maintain. The B2P model easily generates less revenue than the P2P model. This means the developer is more limited budget-wise and therefore more limited on what it can do with the game.

Games with costly IP's and ambitious ideas can't realize their goals without the added revenue. It is simply not possible to develop and maintain a 100+ million dollar project with an extremely costly IP using the B2P model.

You do know a subsription doesn't add anything to the development budget of a game, right?

P2P means the people who make the game are guaranteed money post-launch, but it doesn't mean they are going to do anything with it.

  freegames

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 158

1/09/12 10:30:08 PM#47

Guild Wars is probably the best example of this with the B2P with added in-game shop.

You simply buy the game and each expansion for more content.

Eventually they added an in-game shop to purchase cosmetic items.

The good thing is that you get players more willing to buy items from the store right out the gate.

They can also add things like 50% or 100% more xp gained. (not gold drops though or it will complicate pricing)

Also love the presents for Guild Wars because you get better pets the earlier you joined the game.

Adding the ability to buy certain pets for aesthetics only like more unique pets.

 

So many things a B2P game can do better than either.

Some games even try all 3 though it is sorta like F2P/P2P

With 3 tiers of players

1. Subscribed

2. Bought the game and/ or expansions

3. Free 2 Play

 

Watching for Guild Wars 2 to come out as many of us have been waiting for it.

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1059

1/09/12 10:42:06 PM#48
Originally posted by romanator0

You do know a subsription doesn't add anything to the development budget of a game, right?

P2P means the people who make the game are guaranteed money post-launch, but it doesn't mean they are going to do anything with it.

... Try and develop a game like SWTOR, more than 100 million dollars in development alone, long term contracts with voice actors, the costly Star Wars IP, maintenance of the entire team post-launch, more than 200 servers, all that with the B2P model. It simply will not happen.

  LeegOfChldrn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 369

1/09/12 10:44:00 PM#49

I am very skeptical that the business aspect thinks this deeply in terms of the game.

You have to remember that even among those who keep up with latest technology and trends, if you're not an actual player, have real experience gaming, or understand game design-- there's a big disconnect, especially the more disconnected you are to your product.

Most businessmen seem to be entirely disconnected from their product, relying on others they trust to bring in the product. The depth of thought and instricate knowledge of MMORPG's and their relation to business practice and marketing by game design itself seems too much. I honestly don't believe the out of touch businessmen or financial experts understand, let alone care about this deep of thought.

Most of the tech business world is run on the simplicity/stupidity rule. Where the money makers say, "You nerds make the product go fast and look shiny, and the marketers will peddle the product. If it fails, you're fired. If it succeeds, I get all the money. Since I know nothing about the product and truly don't care about anything but quarterly dividens and profit margins, you better make it look shiny!!!! If they don't like it, then it wasn't shiny enough!!!"

 

After all, most of success and profit is irrelevant of quality (so they think) and marketing is the real pro. We live in a world where lizards on tv tell the western "civilized" world which insurance company to choose. Why? It doesn't matter, because the commercial looked shiny and made you laugh! If you truly think the civilized person doesn't see a commercial and then go "Hahahahhaa, I like the dinosaur, I'll switch to Geico." you are truly naive to the stupidity of the general populous. Commercials and the media CONTROL society in many ways (or could if they wanted to) by telling people what is popular and liked.

If you wear Levi jeans, you will look like all these supermodels on the commercial. If you don't, you're ugly.

"IF YOU TAN YOU'RE HOT! If you're not you're not!"

 

It really is as simple as this. Game designers might think this deeply about their game and possibly market it to their overlords this way, but that really doesn't matter compared to how shiny the graphics are, or the other ways people will be tricked into buying the game. I also have severe doubts game designers think much about this either. Game designers are suppose to design the game *somehow* and simply explain to the executives HOW they will exploit those addicted to F2P cash shops (those who spend hundreds, or thousands a month uncontrollably, so they can be the best because they are told, by society or the game, they need these things to be successful).

 

Subscription models require addicting gameplay? F2P cash shops are less effective than B2P games? Psychological theory, game design specifics, or theory of fun is nonsense. All they care about is "hard evidence" (even if it's a lie or exagerated statistics) proving one method is more profitable than the other. It's all about money, and they pick a model based on past experiences or copies of other's success.

If executives, psychologists, and game designers all worked together to craft a perfect "theory of fun" or "how to addict gamers", then 99% of games wouldn't be a copy of WoW. TRUST ME...they don't think this deeply. Ever.

 

The largest thought in MMORPG business is always "Is it shinier than WoW or Call of Duty?", and if any game designer ever describes any intelligent gaming feature it will be followed by "Does that mean it's shiny or not??? Shiny....good!!!"

  kalinis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1444

1/09/12 10:45:09 PM#50

i disagree so much. for one the cash shops usually end up selling not just xp boosts and stuff they usually sell competitive advantages. 

For the money a sub based game is still the best bang for your buck.  Maybe im biased but i feel sub games are usually much better games and give u content much faster then free 2 play ro buy to play games. 

id also say if u are gonna say buy to play with cash shop is better that free 2 play with no initial purchase and a cash shop beats paying 60 dollars then having to use a cash shop any day. 

  User Deleted
1/09/12 10:53:13 PM#51
Originally posted by stealthbr

Best for consumer? Perhaps not. Why? Because games are becoming more and more expensive to develop and to maintain. The B2P model easily generates less revenue than the P2P model. This means the developer is more limited budget-wise and therefore more limited on what it can do with the game.

Games with costly IP's and ambitious ideas can't realize their goals without the added revenue. It is simply not possible to develop and maintain a 100+ million dollar project with an extremely costly IP using the B2P model.

B2P generates less revenue than the P2P model per person.  And that's actually only true if a person maintains the sub.

People generally won't pay two subscriptions.  So if you're the big dog P2P game, then yes, you're making money hand over fist.  But if a player buys your game and then only plays to the end of the free month, you're not making any more money than a B2P game.

With a B2P game more people are going to buy it than an equivalent P2P game.  Once those additional customers are in, those people might buy expansions or cash shop items.  This is money that a P2P game won't see.

You can give a B2P game as a gift.  I know I'm planning on buying at least two additional copies of GW2.  Got a stubborn friend who doesn't want to try the game you're into?  Just buy it for them.  Hell, buy it for 3 friends.  It would be the same price as subbing to one game for a year by yourself.

Or, buy four games for the price of one game plus a sub.  Maybe companies will be more inclined to feel comfortable making nontraditional games if they knew that they didn't have to try to make the #1 most accessible game, but instead could still make a lot of money being people's 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice.

  Puremallace

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

1/09/12 10:53:35 PM#52

People act like mmorpg's have a choice in going F2P or B2P. Trion basically proves how fast a mmo dev can push out content in the p2p model and people still unsub from Rift for every reason under the sun, but remain loyal to TOR or WoW.

 

We have resigned ourselves to companies like Blizzard giving "content" every 6 months and B2P devs doing it every 6 months also. This genre is beyond screwed right now. Hopefully WoW servers catch fire and we can move on because this genre no longer makes any sense.

 

Mediocrity is king and we are accepting it.

 

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1059

1/09/12 10:59:30 PM#53
Originally posted by cali59

B2P generates less revenue than the P2P model per person.  And that's actually only true if a person maintains the sub.

People generally won't pay two subscriptions.  So if you're the big dog P2P game, then yes, you're making money hand over fist.  But if a player buys your game and then only plays to the end of the free month, you're not making any more money than a B2P game.

With a B2P game more people are going to buy it than an equivalent P2P game.  Once those additional customers are in, those people might buy expansions or cash shop items.  This is money that a P2P game won't see.

You can give a B2P game as a gift.  I know I'm planning on buying at least two additional copies of GW2.  Got a stubborn friend who doesn't want to try the game you're into?  Just buy it for them.  Hell, buy it for 3 friends.  It would be the same price as subbing to one game for a year by yourself.

Or, buy four games for the price of one game plus a sub.  Maybe companies will be more inclined to feel comfortable making nontraditional games if they knew that they didn't have to try to make the #1 most accessible game, but instead could still make a lot of money being people's 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice.

Regarding GW2, I am not skeptical about it using the B2P model. It's a far less costly game, it is not as ambitious with the voice-acting as SWTOR, it will probably have less servers than SWTOR, and the IP belongs to ArenaNet.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12267

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

1/10/12 12:09:59 AM#54
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Kyleran

But...we haven't really proven that B2P as you've described is profitable enough to sustain a full featured MMORPG. ArenaNet promises to deliver such a title with GW2, but hasn't pulled it off yet.

I suspect if they do it has the potential to change the face of the gaming payment landscape, and might be the title's most innovative feature in the end.

Edit: I don't consider the former P2P titles that have converted to more of a B2P/Content model as good proof of it's viability.

pretty much this.

It all sounds great and might actually happen but it hasn't happened yet.

People are buying into this idea because they want more bang for their buck (and espcially gamers who come across as very cheap at times) and who doesn't in the long run?

If it does happen then "yes" it will change quite a bit. But I say let's see what they do. I strongly suspect that there are going to be a lot of players "calling shenanigans" when they start selling DLC, skill packs, essentially implementing their cash shop.

^^ this (and that ---^ )

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  FlawSGI

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1405

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

1/10/12 12:21:32 AM#55
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Kyleran

But...we haven't really proven that B2P as you've described is profitable enough to sustain a full featured MMORPG. ArenaNet promises to deliver such a title with GW2, but hasn't pulled it off yet.

I suspect if they do it has the potential to change the face of the gaming payment landscape, and might be the title's most innovative feature in the end.

Edit: I don't consider the former P2P titles that have converted to more of a B2P/Content model as good proof of it's viability.

pretty much this.

It all sounds great and might actually happen but it hasn't happened yet.

People are buying into this idea because they want more bang for their buck (and espcially gamers who come across as very cheap at times) and who doesn't in the long run?

If it does happen then "yes" it will change quite a bit. But I say let's see what they do. I strongly suspect that there are going to be a lot of players "calling shenanigans" when they start selling DLC, skill packs, essentially implementing their cash shop.

^^ this (and that ---^ )

 As apposed to a sub game where your sub money is justified by saying it's to further develope the game. Oh BTW  you have to pay for the expansion that your sub money was supposed to be paying for the whole time. Can't fathom how people can stomach that crap and smile only to turn around and bash on the idea of a B2P model with a cosmetic CS.

No the B2P model has not been proven yet but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Seeing as how Cash shops have also been  in the P2P games and not just the F2P's, I don't really understand why anyone would have the idea that Anet is going to be shoving anything down anyones throats. I mean if we were going off their track record from the original then we can specualte their CS won't be any worse than the ones you see in your P2P's these days. 

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3735

RIP City of Heroes!

1/10/12 12:23:33 AM#56
Originally posted by ShakyMo

I'd like a pay for time played model, i.e. not a monthly sub, I pay an amount and get X hours in game time

So you would pay $6.00 per hour?

  User Deleted
1/10/12 1:08:38 AM#57
Originally posted by stealthbr
Originally posted by cali59

B2P generates less revenue than the P2P model per person.  And that's actually only true if a person maintains the sub.

People generally won't pay two subscriptions.  So if you're the big dog P2P game, then yes, you're making money hand over fist.  But if a player buys your game and then only plays to the end of the free month, you're not making any more money than a B2P game.

With a B2P game more people are going to buy it than an equivalent P2P game.  Once those additional customers are in, those people might buy expansions or cash shop items.  This is money that a P2P game won't see.

You can give a B2P game as a gift.  I know I'm planning on buying at least two additional copies of GW2.  Got a stubborn friend who doesn't want to try the game you're into?  Just buy it for them.  Hell, buy it for 3 friends.  It would be the same price as subbing to one game for a year by yourself.

Or, buy four games for the price of one game plus a sub.  Maybe companies will be more inclined to feel comfortable making nontraditional games if they knew that they didn't have to try to make the #1 most accessible game, but instead could still make a lot of money being people's 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice.

Regarding GW2, I am not skeptical about it using the B2P model. It's a far less costly game, it is not as ambitious with the voice-acting as SWTOR, it will probably have less servers than SWTOR, and the IP belongs to ArenaNet.

I'm sure it is a less costly game, but it's still an MMO.  ArenaNet reportedly had 270 employees in 2009.  270 employees * $50000 a year (seems a reasonable average, some more, some less) * 5 years is 67.5 million dollars.  That's just base salaries and not even anything like insurance, retirement contributions, rent, utilities, licensing, or hardware.

Talking about how ambitious it is with the voice acting is basically rephrasing your first point, as that is where people believe a great deal of the money went.  GW2 doesn't have voice to the extent that SWTOR does, but it still does have 60 movies worth of dialog in it.  That's another expense I didn't even list with the others I mentioned.

This actually brings up a larger point.  Objective value isn't the only standard here by which we judge things, there's also value per dollar.  If SWTOR costs more because of full VO, we have to ask ourselves whether that additional enjoyment is worth the additional cost.  You argue that SWTOR is more ambitious with VO, but it could also be argued that they went overboard with VO and that it should have been confined to the main quests.  It's one thing to pay a premium to get the best product, but if the VO is subject to diminishing returns, perhaps that money wasn't well spent.

As far as servers go, first, we've been arguing for the past several pages that servers aren't a major expense.  Second, I don't think there's any way that GW2 doesn't have more servers than SWTOR.  Not even talking about the quality of the games, just because of the B2P model.  GW1 sold almost 2 million copies of the core game in the first year, and that was a non-AAA, non-MMO, no IP game from an unknown company.  I can think of absolutely no reason whatsoever why GW2 wouldn't blow that away.

That's why I'm on board with B2P.  What's the difference between 3 million people paying $180 a year in subscriptions, and 6 million people paying $100 a year for two expansions? 

The IP I just shrug about.  It's licensed in order to increase sales, that's it, though I guess you can argue that a SWTOR IP increases everyone's enjoyment because you're using lightsabers instead of knockoffs.  The thing is though, they're writing a huge check to a guy for something he did before the average player here was even born, and then people are using it to justify added cost to the game. 

 

What it comes down to for me is that the numbers don't really add up.  It takes 5 years to develop a game and then you sell it for $60.  Maybe that's enough to recoup initial development costs, maybe not.  Selling 3 million copies at $60 apiece would be 180 million, but there's taxes, retail costs, the IP and all sorts of other things.  So I get they would need additional revenue.  But then to charge $180 a year on top of that?  That's 540 million if everyone stays subscribed.  No way is the cost of whatever development they can come out with during that year worth anywhere near that kind of money.  At some point, extremely quickly, it's going to turn into pure profit.

That's the thing about a subscription.  If they need 500k or 1M subscribers to turn a profit, what happens when they have 2M subscribers?  Or 3M?  Or 10M?  Do you think you're going to get double/triple/10x the amount of content updates?

B2P is going to turn into profit too (they hope), but at least it's cheaper per person and it forces the company to put out content people want to voluntarily purchase.  If you don't think a $50 expansion or a $15 DLC is worth it, don't buy.  Force the company to either come out with better stuff or drop prices.

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

1/10/12 1:13:50 AM#58
Originally posted by stealthbr
Originally posted by cali59

B2P generates less revenue than the P2P model per person.  And that's actually only true if a person maintains the sub.

People generally won't pay two subscriptions.  So if you're the big dog P2P game, then yes, you're making money hand over fist.  But if a player buys your game and then only plays to the end of the free month, you're not making any more money than a B2P game.

With a B2P game more people are going to buy it than an equivalent P2P game.  Once those additional customers are in, those people might buy expansions or cash shop items.  This is money that a P2P game won't see.

You can give a B2P game as a gift.  I know I'm planning on buying at least two additional copies of GW2.  Got a stubborn friend who doesn't want to try the game you're into?  Just buy it for them.  Hell, buy it for 3 friends.  It would be the same price as subbing to one game for a year by yourself.

Or, buy four games for the price of one game plus a sub.  Maybe companies will be more inclined to feel comfortable making nontraditional games if they knew that they didn't have to try to make the #1 most accessible game, but instead could still make a lot of money being people's 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice.

Regarding GW2, I am not skeptical about it using the B2P model. It's a far less costly game, it is not as ambitious with the voice-acting as SWTOR, it will probably have less servers than SWTOR, and the IP belongs to ArenaNet.

So it's a bloated behemoth of a game. So what? It's still an open question whether it'll turn a seizable profit even with subscriptions.

Hollywood's history is littered with bloated over-budgeted flops. The same is holds true for video games. Just because I burned 200 mil on my super crappy movie no one wants to see doesn't mean I can ask 100 $ for tickets lol.

And VO costs? Really? VO is a justification for subscriptions? Come on.... And Lucas Arts' IP? I don't recall them overpricing KOTOR games because of it or asking for subs, lol. It's just greed and bad financial planning, nothing else.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/10/12 1:18:40 AM#59
Originally posted by Creslin321

 I don't think the "no transparency" argument flies in the modern era.  With the internet, there is an EXTREMELY high level of transparency with games.  You can read reviews, talk to other users on forums, watch YouTube videos of gameplay.  I typically know exactly what I'm getting into when I buy a game nowadays.

And why would F2P games not need marketing as well?  A consumer has to be aware of the game to try it, F2P or not.

Of course F2P games benefit from marketing too.  But say an ad is successful: in a B2P game, the company has made money whereas in a F2P game you still have to entertain the player in order to get money from them.

As for transparency...are you saying you've always been 100% satisfied with every game you've ever purchased as a result of the internet's transparency letting you know exactly what you were buying beforehand?  Hype and reviews have always been a good judge of a game for you?

  Vallista

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/05
Posts: 271

1/10/12 1:19:34 AM#60

LeegOfChldrn speaks truth.  The lizard comment was epic gold.  

Read my blog http://sanmonocobra.blogspot.com/

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