Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Elder Scrolls Online | ArcheAge | TERA: Rising

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,645,738 Users Online:0
Games:687  Posts:6,083,343
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Is world PVP dead?

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
126 posts found
  gainesvilleg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

1/08/12 12:40:24 PM#61
Originally posted by wormed
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

there are pretty much 2 words that eventually end up describing world pvp in general.

 

There. You said it.

 

2 words that end up describing world PvP. Is it fair to describe it that way? Of course not. You can't even find someone who can find the definition of what IS NOT a "gank" in a world PvP scenario. Are you supposed to stare at them, alert them of your presence, give them a /wave to let them know of your intent to kill and then fight? People who bitch, moan and whine about world PvP scenarios are simply people who should not be joining "PvP" servers. Everything you ask for, Battlegrounds, Arenas, etc, are always available on the PvE server-type as well. Why ruin the fun for others by joining the PvP servers and subsequently whining profusely about getting your ass tooled?

 

Ganking is synonymous with every kill in the open world no matter what situation. It's pathetic and it's an annoying truth.

 

I agree with you.  I think people that don't enjoy open world PVP and simply refer to it as "ganking" need to focus on the PVE servers and the more evenly matched battlegrounds and be happy.  No need to try to and dismiss open world PVP as something that can't work or that it is always unfair.

I am an avid PVPer, and I can tell you that one of the things that makes open world PVP so fun is the inherent unfairness of it.  It introduces many new strategies, tactics, and out of the box thinking to turn the tables in your favor.  Half the fun is coming up with clever ways to survive or to create an advantage for yourself.  Or to dream up fun things to do and then try to do it.

In my opinion nothing should ever be out of bounds completely, although certain objectives could be made exceedingly difficult if the developer just puts in a little bit of thought.  The problem is most MMO's put almost no thought into the PVP ruleset.  They simply develop a game for PVE, and then turn on some PVP "free for all" servers with maybe a few restricted zones for early levelers.  This superficial treatment of open world PVP is what is killing open world PVP.

A well implemented rule set and meaningful objectives (not even formal objectives, just things to try to accomplish even) is all that is needed to save world PVP in my opinion.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/08/12 12:49:19 PM#62
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Zerging and ganking can indeed occur on 200 v 200 maps or smaller, lack of pve alters that fact erm, well not at all. Nothing wrong with that, but to think otherwise is somewhat odd to say the least.

If we pretend all your semantic arguments are right, it still doesn't change the underlying facts of what PVP games people want to play.  So for the sake of discussion, we'll pretend all your semantic arguments are right.  It still leaves world PVP "dead" (in reality just very rare) and players consistently seeking quality PVP from pure PVP games.  And "PKing" and the bad form of zerging are still abhored by players, and therefore avoided more and more by developers.

Seems pretty good to me (:

The majority of people want to play the PVP games they either enjoy or think they will enjoy. However, that does not automatically mean that features whose impact on their game they didn't enjoy are always bad in every game. It also doesn't mean that the impact of feature will be unenjoyable for the persons in every game.

Zerging and ganking creates a strong sense of fear and thrill; those are very powerful forms of entertainment if they are implemented correctly. I do think that there needs to be incentives to specifically fight back against those zergers and gankers; in faction-based games I would hope that they either give important points for fighting back or that the victims have an important value to the faction as a whole, which would give the stronger factionmembers good reasons to help the victims in their faction. 

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/08/12 1:01:24 PM#63
Originally posted by wormed
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

there are pretty much 2 words that eventually end up describing world pvp in general.

 

There. You said it.

 

2 words that end up describing world PvP. Is it fair to describe it that way? Of course not. You can't even find someone who can find the definition of what IS NOT a "gank" in a world PvP scenario. Are you supposed to stare at them, alert them of your presence, give them a /wave to let them know of your intent to kill and then fight? People who bitch, moan and whine about world PvP scenarios are simply people who should not be joining "PvP" servers. Everything you ask for, Battlegrounds, Arenas, etc, are always available on the PvE server-type as well. Why ruin the fun for others by joining the PvP servers and subsequently whining profusely about getting your ass tooled?

 

Ganking is synonymous with every kill in the open world no matter what situation. It's pathetic and it's an annoying truth.

 

 

No, it is not. For instance, if there is a world boss nearby or about to spawn, then it is impossible to be ganked, because everyone should know that the world boss is an attractive target which people will fight about; any fight near it would be consensual. 

 

Also, if you see an opposing faction member running towards you from miles away, then it is not a gank. 

 

Similarily, if you just ganked a some players by attacking them to their surprise while they were busy with mobs and you got attacked back by a group of defenders those players called, then they are not ganking you, you should have known the risk.

 

Furthermore, if you are knowingly running into the enemy faction map and you get attacked by them: they are not ganking you.

 

Finally, if you are grinding mobs in a very open place where you can see who is coming from any direction if you choose to pay attention, then any attack against you is not a gank.

 

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/08/12 5:45:26 PM#64
Originally posted by InFaVilla

Zerging and ganking creates a strong sense of fear and thrill; those are very powerful forms of entertainment if they are implemented correctly. I do think that there needs to be incentives to specifically fight back against those zergers and gankers; in faction-based games I would hope that they either give important points for fighting back or that the victims have an important value to the faction as a whole, which would give the stronger factionmembers good reasons to help the victims in their faction. 

Only a very narrow subsection of PVPers seek those types of fear and thrills, in this particular form.

For most of us it's better to have typical gameplay be fairly exciting, with particularly thrilling moments when our BF3 helo gets hit to 10% health and all manner of smoke and warning alarms are going off while we narrowly escape death over a hill to repair back up.

For most of us "fear" isn't necessarily something we want to feel while playing a game for entertainment.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

1/08/12 7:13:20 PM#65
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by maplestone

I would assert that world-PvP is an unstable design.

It's no fun playing the victim.  So you lose the people who don't want to PvP at all to other zones/games.  This removes both easy kills and innocents to defend.   The game becomes more and more battleground-like and bleeds away players who don't want to play when they are the bottom.  So a game with open-world PvP will die off or gravitate to being a battlefield environment.

Whether or not it is fun playing the victim, completely depends on what kind of player one is and what kind of game it is.

 

Some reasons for why playing the victim can be entertaining:

* If it is factionbased, it can be fun calling your high level faction members to defend your faction areas from the intruders you spotted.

* It is natural to get a feeling of satisfaction from overcoming your obstacles.

*Outsmarting and planning ahead can be very satisfying.

LOL .. most would disagree. That is why world PvP is so unpopular and taken away in WOW.

BTW, the points you are making have nothing to do with playing the victim. How can a victim overcoming obstacles? By definition, they are the ones who LOSE and got killed. And how would being a victim be outsmarting anything? The OTHER guy outsmart you, otherwise, you won't be the victim. You need a class in logical reasoning.

 

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2490

1/08/12 7:30:02 PM#66

Its like switch off pvp on/off majority i think 99% want controlled pvp at there choosing knowing what and how it will happen what objectives are and whos there opponent's.

World pvp is unpredictable or you can be surrpirsed been ganked by a group majority hates that they wanne be left alone.

So result is INSTANCE all instance no ganking no kill stealing or even worse pls no encounters with others players or maybe he wanne party or talk with me and OH NO THATS NOT WHAT I WANT communicating with other players i dont know maybe a can get some deseases who knows:P

More and more MMO'S are dead, solo games where your 100% protected from any other player.

Negative go play all those themeparks its realy realy bad state right now with games and behavior and social skills of gameplayer base in most of them.

How this all will change i realy don't know anymore:(

AC1-AC2 both Darktide server. Lineage2-Darkfall 1. Many ive tried in between. Stopped playing mmorpgs for now fed up with... Played many solo games mainly rpg's.
Fav series Elder scrolls.

  HolaHola

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/08
Posts: 68

1/08/12 7:53:01 PM#67

World PvP is not dead. UO is for me a prime example of how well it can be done, but also a prime example of how little that is needed to destroy it again.

There is an extreme fine line of balancing the tools you give players to make it work (often freedom vs control). The problem is that MMOs is extremly complex and changing something in PvE might have a great effect on PvP and vice versa. 

Therefore creating game mechanics and looking at game design patterns that will work in practice for both PvE and PvP needs more focus. For me it seems that they are greatly separated in many cases. But i do not blame companys for this really, it is a though and time consuming task, and thereby an expensive one.

But i still believe it can be done, else i wouldn't study games. We just really need big companys with the budget beliving in open world pvp as a big integrated part of the game.

 

Playing: League of Legends!

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/08/12 8:46:47 PM#68
Originally posted by forest-nl

maybe he wanne party or talk with me and OH NO THATS NOT WHAT I WANT communicating with other players i dont know maybe a can get some deseases who knows:P

What would make you say that?  Team-based PVP is considerably more popular than 1v1 PVP.  Players love grouping and teamwork, they just don't want to put up with the bullshit that comes along with non-instanced PVP.  Those games have more timesinks, more tedium, and on top of that worse PVP (one-sided slaughters where decisions are irrelevant.)

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/08/12 9:12:17 PM#69
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by maplestone

I would assert that world-PvP is an unstable design.

It's no fun playing the victim.  So you lose the people who don't want to PvP at all to other zones/games.  This removes both easy kills and innocents to defend.   The game becomes more and more battleground-like and bleeds away players who don't want to play when they are the bottom.  So a game with open-world PvP will die off or gravitate to being a battlefield environment.

Whether or not it is fun playing the victim, completely depends on what kind of player one is and what kind of game it is.

 

Some reasons for why playing the victim can be entertaining:

* If it is factionbased, it can be fun calling your high level faction members to defend your faction areas from the intruders you spotted.

* It is natural to get a feeling of satisfaction from overcoming your obstacles.

*Outsmarting and planning ahead can be very satisfying.

LOL .. most would disagree. That is why world PvP is so unpopular and taken away in WOW.

BTW, the points you are making have nothing to do with playing the victim. How can a victim overcoming obstacles? By definition, they are the ones who LOSE and got killed. And how would being a victim be outsmarting anything? The OTHER guy outsmart you, otherwise, you won't be the victim. You need a class in logical reasoning.

 

 

I thought "victim" was refered to in a more metaphoric manner: as in the "victim" of the choice to allow World PvP. In other words: those holding the lowest positions in the World PvP hierachy, those who are most likely to get ganked. 

You can simultaneously leap the highest risk of getting ganked, often due to lack of power from levels and gear, and still have the possibility and the choice to attempt and succeed in outsmarting opponents. 

Outsmarting, can be to survive a hunt, to avoid detection altogether or to simply make the aggressors pay more than you lost from dieing. 

  maplestone

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/08/12 9:25:48 PM#70
Originally posted by InFaVilla

Some reasons for why playing the victim can be entertaining:

* If it is factionbased, it can be fun calling your high level faction members to defend your faction areas from the intruders you spotted.

* It is natural to get a feeling of satisfaction from overcoming your obstacles.

*Outsmarting and planning ahead can be very satisfying.

Couldn't everything you say here can be provided more easily by a staged battlefields than an open-world where other players may or may not decide to play the same game?

Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of world integrity and avoiding instances/arenas where possible.  In the back of my mind, I'm thinking about Eve and why that game has grown rather than evaporated like all other open-PvP games I've seen.

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/08/12 9:39:43 PM#71
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by InFaVilla

Some reasons for why playing the victim can be entertaining:

* If it is factionbased, it can be fun calling your high level faction members to defend your faction areas from the intruders you spotted.

* It is natural to get a feeling of satisfaction from overcoming your obstacles.

*Outsmarting and planning ahead can be very satisfying.

Couldn't everything you say here can be provided more easily by a staged battlefields than an open-world where other players may or may not decide to play the same game?

Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of world integrity and avoiding instances/arenas where possible.  In the back of my mind, I'm thinking about Eve and why that game has grown rather than evaporated like all other open-PvP games I've seen.

I think the problem is solved to a certain extent by providing PvP and PvE servers, like many MMORPGs already do. I would though wish that differences in rulesets were a bit more extreme and thought-out. 

The problem with arenas is that we already got too many games that focus on them, specially in genres outside of MMORPGs. I've always liked variation and too much arena can become boring after a while. Open world pvp, specially those based around three factions designed in such way that you really care about the well-being of your own faction, gives such a different entertaining feel and that's why it is in my interest that it stays alive as an option.

 

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

1/08/12 11:47:11 PM#72


Originally posted by Axehilt


Originally posted by bunnyhopper
There will be plenty of no skill ganking and zerging in maps suited for 200v200v200. Progression or no progression 


The underlying reason for the term "zerg" is a jab at the obviously crappy design of "I have more friends online tonight so I win".  That only happens in the spillover continents in Planetside, and definitely doesn't happen in the 200v200 continents.
If you're on a 200v200v200 continent and you find yourself outnumbered, it's your own damn fault.  Your teammates were out there and you chose to separate from them.
Sometimes separation is wise, but the crucial difference is it becomes a tactical player choice rather than "Welp, the enemy has more players online tonight guess we're just always going to lose" which is the absolute worst part of Planetside (but is thankfully rare in Planetside, whereas in world PVP it's the norm.)
But in 200v200 fights, population is factored out, leaving skill and teamwork as the reasons you win or lose -- and that's what the majority considers worthwhile PVP: games about skillful competition.
Similarly, the underlying reason for the term "gank" is a jab at the obviously crappy design of "I can ambush you while you're doing a PVE activity which takes you to 50% health".  This never happens in Planetside; there are no PVE activities, everything is PVP-related.

Thats the best fun in Planetside, been outnumbered, some of the most fun an intense fights iv had have been fights like:

Me vs squad
3 vs yellow alert
10 vs Red alert re secure.


You can fight with even numbers on evenly balanced teams in sooo many games, Planetside lets anything happen, and you never know whats going to be out there, watching and waiting.

Planetsides 3 faction PvP also helps lessen the blow of empire population problems, you migth get hammered sometimes in a double team, but once you get pushed back far enough, another enemy will have no choice but to fight 2 factions on 2 fronts of a map.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  LeegOfChldrn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 369

1/09/12 12:51:25 AM#73

If the developers designed the entire game to be a world PvP game, it wouldn't be plagued with the same problems as a game currently out with added world PvP.

With that said, world PvP is dead until a developer creates a game with a design focused entirely on World PvP, making sure that the fatal flaws of world PvP are dealt with in the design.

Otherwise... world PvP is as retarded as permadeath.

Of course, permadeath is also entirely viable in thousands of ways, depending on if the game is designed around it, or if it is a feature dropped into a current MMO.

 

World PvP dropped in WoW = end of the world. (of warcraft).

Permadeath dropped in WoW = end of the world. (of warcraft).

 

Game designed from Day 0 with the entire focus of World PvP / Permadeath / Other Idea, with design created to solve the problems that occur = successful game with inserted feature.

 

It's all about the game design. If you don't believe me, then you need to expand your mind. A video game is without genre until a design happens. Take a video game and add World PvP + Permadeath + ????? and it results in every FPS game ever created. Do it again, and you produce RTS games. Arguably the definition of "world" changed during design, and *who* suffers permadeath may change, but that's the power of design. The point I am making is that no idea or concept of game type is entirely set up to fail. It just means the DESIGN needs to base itself around it, and many other factors.

Since I see no one attempting World PvP, it is in the game graveyard, but certainly not dead.

  warmaster670

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/08
Posts: 1441

1/09/12 12:58:25 AM#74
Originally posted by wormywyrm

The only game I've ever played instanced pvp in is GW1...  All those others are pathetic.

So, there pathetic, yet youve never played them, so really, your just talking out your ass.

Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/09/12 1:07:45 AM#75
Originally posted by skyexile

Thats the best fun in Planetside, been outnumbered, some of the most fun an intense fights iv had have been fights like:

Me vs squad
3 vs yellow alert
10 vs Red alert re secure.


You can fight with even numbers on evenly balanced teams in sooo many games, Planetside lets anything happen, and you never know whats going to be out there, watching and waiting.

Planetsides 3 faction PvP also helps lessen the blow of empire population problems, you migth get hammered sometimes in a double team, but once you get pushed back far enough, another enemy will have no choice but to fight 2 factions on 2 fronts of a map.

Some of the most fun I had was outnumbered too.  20:1 k:d tower holdouts, and successful 5v20 base defenses.

But what made it particularly fun is knowing that elsewhere on the continent my 195 teammates were pushing bases specifically because we 5 players were holding against 20 enemies (leaving the enemy on the other side of the map at a disadvantage.)

It was always intentional strategy, rather than simply being outnumbered.  Losing the spillover continent because it's 50vs10 was just outright not fun.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

1/09/12 2:49:03 AM#76


Originally posted by Axehilt


Originally posted by skyexile
Thats the best fun in Planetside, been outnumbered, some of the most fun an intense fights iv had have been fights like:
Me vs squad
3 vs yellow alert
10 vs Red alert re secure.

You can fight with even numbers on evenly balanced teams in sooo many games, Planetside lets anything happen, and you never know whats going to be out there, watching and waiting.
Planetsides 3 faction PvP also helps lessen the blow of empire population problems, you migth get hammered sometimes in a double team, but once you get pushed back far enough, another enemy will have no choice but to fight 2 factions on 2 fronts of a map.


Some of the most fun I had was outnumbered too.  20:1 k:d tower holdouts, and successful 5v20 base defenses.
But what made it particularly fun is knowing that elsewhere on the continent my 195 teammates were pushing bases specifically because we 5 players were holding against 20 enemies (leaving the enemy on the other side of the map at a disadvantage.)
It was always intentional strategy, rather than simply being outnumbered.  Losing the spillover continent because it's 50vs10 was just outright not fun.

Never much concerned myself with global strategy or trying to hold land or take it. Some people get off on taking land for a sense of victory, even bother send a hate tell after they finally push you out of a base where you farmed them for half an hour. I guess victory is in the eye of the player in Planetside, because from my view i never felt like i lost :) Maybe its why I like it so much, who knows.


SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 4742

1/09/12 3:07:28 AM#77
Originally posted by skyexile

 


Originally posted by Axehilt


Originally posted by skyexile
Thats the best fun in Planetside, been outnumbered, some of the most fun an intense fights iv had have been fights like:
Me vs squad
3 vs yellow alert
10 vs Red alert re secure.

You can fight with even numbers on evenly balanced teams in sooo many games, Planetside lets anything happen, and you never know whats going to be out there, watching and waiting.
Planetsides 3 faction PvP also helps lessen the blow of empire population problems, you migth get hammered sometimes in a double team, but once you get pushed back far enough, another enemy will have no choice but to fight 2 factions on 2 fronts of a map.



Some of the most fun I had was outnumbered too.  20:1 k:d tower holdouts, and successful 5v20 base defenses.
But what made it particularly fun is knowing that elsewhere on the continent my 195 teammates were pushing bases specifically because we 5 players were holding against 20 enemies (leaving the enemy on the other side of the map at a disadvantage.)
It was always intentional strategy, rather than simply being outnumbered.  Losing the spillover continent because it's 50vs10 was just outright not fun.


 

Never much concerned myself with global strategy or trying to hold land or take it. Some people get off on taking land for a sense of victory, even bother send a hate tell after they finally push you out of a base where you farmed them for half an hour. I guess victory is in the eye of the player in Planetside, because from my view i never felt like i lost :) Maybe its why I like it so much, who knows.

 

planetside did the skirmish and seige warfare pretty well, if they hadnt messed it up with the rubbish BFR's and the caverns then i think it would still be about the best MMOFPS game out there - its possible it might be even with those ridiculous additions...  but i do agree, you never really felt you were losing, even when you did lose a base, the fights themselves made it all worthwhile.

  Joonas

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/06
Posts: 21

1/09/12 7:04:55 AM#78

I'm not sure how Lineage 2 did it, but I started off by playing Conquer Online and it was open world PVP. The ruleset there was that if you attacked a white or red named person and killed him, you'd get 10 PK points. Once you reach 30 PK points, your name will turn red. When a red person is PK'd by someone, he will drop 1-2 gear items. Once you reach 100 PK points, your name will turn black and you'll drop 2-4 items or so. These PK points go down while you wait, so you're not stuck with them forever.

When you attack a person, your name starts flashing blue, which means that you can be killed without the other person receiving any PK points. Attacking a flashing player or a black named player will not cause you to start flashing or give you any PK points.

This way people rarely killed anyone for no reason at all, and it was mostly used for getting rid of annoying people. Some used it in an unfair manner by killing you the moment you received a good drop, or right before a boss monster, but it generally worked just fine and people were able to grind monsters together and nobody touched the newbies.

  Calfis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 305

1/09/12 10:16:02 AM#79
Originally posted by BadSpock

World PvP is not dead.

It's all about attitude.

You can't tie PvP especially world PvP to rewards and loot etc. It's about finding and killing your enemy. It's fun.

As soon as you HAVE to have a monetary or quantified reason to fight your enemies, to be rewarded for it, it's already not worth it to fight in the first place.

 

Me and a buddy grouped up on Tatooine in TOR and went Imperial hunting. Finding, fighting, and killing players of the opposing faction.

Did we get any phat loot? No.

Did we get any points or XP to buy phat loot or level up? No.

 

Did we have FUN and got into some great fights and show those damn dirty Imps that no where is safe?!?

Yes.

I dont know about you but phat loot would have added to my fun in the above scenario. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17994

1/09/12 10:20:18 AM#80
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by maplestone

I would assert that world-PvP is an unstable design.

It's no fun playing the victim.  So you lose the people who don't want to PvP at all to other zones/games.  This removes both easy kills and innocents to defend.   The game becomes more and more battleground-like and bleeds away players who don't want to play when they are the bottom.  So a game with open-world PvP will die off or gravitate to being a battlefield environment.

Whether or not it is fun playing the victim, completely depends on what kind of player one is and what kind of game it is.

 

Some reasons for why playing the victim can be entertaining:

* If it is factionbased, it can be fun calling your high level faction members to defend your faction areas from the intruders you spotted.

* It is natural to get a feeling of satisfaction from overcoming your obstacles.

*Outsmarting and planning ahead can be very satisfying.

LOL .. most would disagree. That is why world PvP is so unpopular and taken away in WOW.

BTW, the points you are making have nothing to do with playing the victim. How can a victim overcoming obstacles? By definition, they are the ones who LOSE and got killed. And how would being a victim be outsmarting anything? The OTHER guy outsmart you, otherwise, you won't be the victim. You need a class in logical reasoning.

 

 

I thought "victim" was refered to in a more metaphoric manner: as in the "victim" of the choice to allow World PvP. In other words: those holding the lowest positions in the World PvP hierachy, those who are most likely to get ganked. 

You can simultaneously leap the highest risk of getting ganked, often due to lack of power from levels and gear, and still have the possibility and the choice to attempt and succeed in outsmarting opponents. 

Outsmarting, can be to survive a hunt, to avoid detection altogether or to simply make the aggressors pay more than you lost from dieing. 

You are over-thinking it. Victim, in this case, means whoever on the short end of PvP .. i.e. .. those who got ganged.

There is NO WAY you can spin that being a victim is fun, if you actually stick to the English meaning of the word.

If you SURVIVE a HUNT, you won't be DYING, and won't be a VICTIM.

 

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search