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I thought I'd post this because UO really went through it all, all the problems, and had some great solutions. This is good stuff for any game that wants to have houses for players. There's solutions in here for anyone, any game style. Housing can keep players, because the more you have into it, the cooler it is, the stronger the desire to keep it is. It's harder to quit a game where you have "ownership" and the greater investment into it. In the beginning, UO had about 20 different structures that you could build, with variety in sizes (and cost) and styles. This ranged from small one room houses to larger multi-room houses/workshops, to larger still towers, and to keeps and castles. These were non-instanced, and could be placed where ever the ground was flat enough and didn't have obstacles like boulders and trees (there were other obstacles, some quite frustrating, too). UO started as a totally Sandbox game, and these were some of the functions of houses:
This is where the problems started showing up:
Solution:
New problem:
New solutions:
Other players could still pick up your items, and players couldn't invite others inside unless they really trusted them. Some players would actually infiltrate guilds to get inside their guild houses where there was a lot of stuff stored.
Solution The Lockdown, this is a great feature:
New problem:
Solution:
Player vendors at houses. These were NPCs that a player could place in their house, or on the front steps or porch, load them with what they wanted to sell, give it a selling price, and let other players buy off these vendors at anytime. So players could sell their goods even when they weren't there. UO didn't have Auction Houses set up by the game. The only auctions in UO were special player run events. These events were where the best stuff, rare items and uber gear, was usually sold through bids. This was great, "realistic", and something that the game Auction Houses miss out on. This added a special flavor to the game, an all new and different play feature, and was social to boot. But the player owned NPC vendors also added shops owned by players of all sorts, that ofefred what players made as well as loot they wanted to sell. Most players would get to know the owner by chance encounters, and owners were always asking buyers if they could improve their shop, their offerings, how they could be better. because they were in competition with all the other players to sell usually the same stuff. "Location, Location, Location" made some housing spots very valuable, and players even bought and sold these spots just for the investment in them.
"Urban Sprawl": UO's world just wasn't large enough. Eventually, all the spots where a house could be placed had a house on it. The game world just wasn't built for it, and everywhere players went there was houses. The seemed to be few wild places left, and those that were there just weren't very large (and even so, still usually had a small house or two there).
Now, in one sense there was a benefit to this. Houses were used as hubs for these areas. Players could resupply themselves with spell reagents or bandages to continue hunting the area. But mostly, it was just a negative, as the entire world seemed stuffed with houses.
A huge world, and properly engineered to keep wild areas wild is what's required if a game wants to go this route.
"Laaaaaagggggg!!!!"
A key problem with such a world is the numbers of items. It's not so much one house, buth when a player runs into an area full of house and his computer is trying to load up thousands of items, there's gonna be lag problems. UO had a range on these items, like all games. But it was too condensed, too much, even in a small area.
Solution:
Customized housing system. This was one of the best thngs I've seen for MMORPGs. Instead of a predesigned house, you placed a foundation. And then you could build it up any way you wanted, within some realistic construction guidelines. In other words, you needed to have something below the second floor for it to be supported by. This could be walls, or it could be support pillars, or projection arches below it.
Basically, UO gave you a wide variety of walls, stone, woods, stucko, and in a variety of flavors. They also had short knee walls. Each wall could be with a window or without. And these all came in short sections. So if you had a foundation that was 50 feet wide, you could pick and choose each 5 foot wide section along that wall. And you could place a variety of door types in place of a wall. And you could add interior walls anywhere along the inside floor plan, or doors. So you could really make it pretty much any way you wanted as far as floor plan.
Even the floors had a lot of options, ans they eventually added carpets.
Then, you could add items, furniture, etc, anywhere you wanted. Players could really decorate this up and it made for some really great places. The libraries, temples, museums, it was all enhanced. Of course, some players have no eye, and really made some monstrosities, heh.
You could leave upper floors open (no floor) for that Great Hall look too.
Well, I think I've pretty much covered it. I know this answers some problems I've seen posted in other threads. I hope this not only gives some answers, but even raises some questions. I think player constructions, including in cities, is a very big part of the future of MMORPGs.
Once upon a time.... |
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1/08/12 1:39:51 PM#2
nice read, ty |
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1/08/12 1:53:15 PM#3
interesting. some of the solutions are a little too hard on the sandbox concept however. the item lockdown for example is unneeded if you can detect the thieves with 'search hidden'. this would still allow infiltration through social means which should always be a feature in those mmos that are more social. all kinds of 'permission' concepts that some new games have would work pretty well. |
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Cuathon
Advanced Member
Joined: 10/24/04
Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us. |
1/08/12 2:00:45 PM#4
Originally posted by sazabi its a pretty common aspect of sandboxes that you have to sacrifice some sand for practicality. people: the reason we can't have nice things. |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/08/12 2:13:40 PM#5
That is one heck of a great post, Amaranthar! Some to add to the part about Lockdowns: Locking down items was the result of trying to find a reasonable solution to the random theft, by players and NPC, of items at player venues. Kazola's, Serpents Cross, the YMCA and several other venues went through an almost daily routine of busting out the carpenters to replace the furniture that was taken or broken during the course of the day. Originally, the content team would do what the playerbase coined as 'blessing' the venue - showing up to manually dress up and lock down the amenities. Tying up a dev for a few hours (even with 'brushes' laid out to 'paint' requested dressings onto the location) just became an incredibly unweildy process, albeit a fun was to interact with the community. Giving players the tools to lock things down allowed more players to create establishments, freed up the content team members, and also elminated the issue of perceived favoritism when it comes to which venues got items locked down and which didn't.
That was a really great overview of UO's housing. Would be interesting to see one for SWG and one for DAoC from people familiar with those system, too. filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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1/08/12 2:30:12 PM#6
For the life of me, I don't understand why there hasn't been a UO 2. |
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1/08/12 2:39:43 PM#7
The housing in SWG was similiar to that of late-development UO. You had limits on items you can lockdown in SWG based on house size. There were zones you couldnt build a house.
Really, UO did it well. For a long time I knew one of the richest people on my shard gained his fortune by being a thief. He would steal people's keys and their house rune and loot the house.
I'd be one for a well made UO2. |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/08/12 2:41:34 PM#8
Originally posted by Hatewall Because to create it would require more than updating a roster database and some jersey logos. filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |