Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | Star Wars: The Old Republic | WildStar | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,645,142 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,079,219
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I miss olfschool PvE

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
91 posts found
  tollbooth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/11
Posts: 302

1/07/12 1:53:36 PM#41

i despise quest driven xp so much.  it feels like the most tedious grind imagineable.  I never feel myself get stronger, and so little of it actually matters in any way. 

Someone just remake ffxi already so i can start having fun in a mmo again :(

  Dewm

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/29/09
Posts: 1337

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/07/12 1:53:48 PM#42
Originally posted by Skranken
Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

I've come to the conclusion that what many people call "grinding" is what I call "playing the game".

Same here.

If thats the case I love games where you need to "grind" your way to the top like Anarchy Online and Everquest.

QFT

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2490

1/07/12 2:01:56 PM#43

What i miss most is the community back then i know you had also assholes but still it was alot and i mean ALOT better then these days.

AC1-AC2 both Darktide server. Lineage2-Darkfall 1. Many ive tried in between. Stopped playing mmorpgs for now fed up with... Played many solo games mainly rpg's.
Fav series Elder scrolls.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/07/12 5:47:31 PM#44
Originally posted by Dewm

<bunch of trollage>

kthnxby 

The McD's argument is flawed because MMORPGs charge the same price.

If a bunch of restaurants charged 14.99 a month for unlimited access to their food, and customers overwhelmingly chose one restaurant over the others, that's definitely not the same as why people choose McDonalds (cheap food).

McD's would be if players were overwhelmingly choosing some F2P MMORPG based on price alone (even knowing that it was a worse MMORPG.)

In this analogy, the leading restaurant's success is based on streamlining the dining experience, by eliminating the various types of line-waiting that existed in other restaurants, in addition to higher quality food.

  User Deleted
1/07/12 8:10:43 PM#45

I have to wonder.  Was it that the games were really all that diffrent in terms of grind?  I mean people do make a valid point...its all a form of grinding if you dont enjoy it right?

Perhaps the problem is that mmorpgs have become a mad dash to endgame, making the journey a tedious obstical blocking people from being at endgame and raiding and doing the same battlegrounds over and over that they did at level 10 (lol).

I think the biggest flaw in the wow arch-type is the mad dash enducing engame hype.  I dont recall ever rushing in the older mmorpgs.  Hell, i remember not even caring or noticing what level i was in anarchy online, but then that was perhaps a diffrent game all together.

Regardless...my opinion...its the rush to endgame thats killed the game.  People just dont enjoy playing to progress and socialize.  Its now all business...level as fast as possible. 

I recall recently seeing a pug group member type " did we have to kill these mobs?" when running a dungeon.  Its that mentality i cant stand...no we didnt but i did because it was fun.  That guy ended up leaving since we were wasting time by the way...left us all there before we finished since we were pulling mobs we could have run past.

Theres got to be a way to brainwash these kids into enjoying the game simply by playing it, rather than achieving endgame as fast as possible then getting bored in a month and hopping to the next one (or re rolling and racing again..on top of endlessly running the same instances over and over again at endgame)....why is endgame so fun again..seems the most repetative part of themeparks...

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17961

1/07/12 11:33:48 PM#46
Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

 

BAD old times. I am glad that will never return. It is mind numbingly boring to camp & kill the SAME mobs again and again till the next level.

Questing .. at least you get to see different scenary. Plus, you can always run instance dungeons to level in WOW, which you cannot do in the "bad old days" of EQ.

  Dewm

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/29/09
Posts: 1337

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/08/12 12:22:09 AM#47
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Dewm

kthnxby 

The McD's argument is flawed because MMORPGs charge the same price.

If a bunch of restaurants charged 14.99 a month for unlimited access to their food, and customers overwhelmingly chose one restaurant over the others, that's definitely not the same as why people choose McDonalds (cheap food).

McD's would be if players were overwhelmingly choosing some F2P MMORPG based on price alone (even knowing that it was a worse MMORPG.)

In this analogy, the leading restaurant's success is based on streamlining the dining experience, by eliminating the various types of line-waiting that existed in other restaurants, in addition to higher quality food.

 

You obviously didnt' read my post. if you take the "McD's" arguement and make the TIME the "currency" then diffrent MMO's charge diffrent prices.

Example 34: FFXI takes 20 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 3 hours to level...total time: 3.5hrs

WoW takes, 2 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 10 minutes to level...total time: 22min

 

Time = money

Wow (22min) is cheaper (cost less) then FFXI(3.5hrs)

 

More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/08/12 1:01:25 AM#48
Originally posted by Dewm

 You obviously didnt' read my post. if you take the "McD's" arguement and make the TIME the "currency" then diffrent MMO's charge diffrent prices.

Example 34: FFXI takes 20 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 3 hours to level...total time: 3.5hrs

WoW takes, 2 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 10 minutes to level...total time: 22min

 Time = money

Wow (22min) is cheaper (cost less) then FFXI(3.5hrs)

 More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"

Putting aside the fact that your argument is completely nonsensical, WOW charged me 6 years of time because it was fun and rapidly got me from fun thing A to fun thing B, whereas FFX charged me 30 minutes of time because the UI/controls were terrible and it felt grindy even at the start.  So I guess the actual price being paid is quite a bit higher in WOW.

In reality, all people care about is return on investment -- invest x time, get y fun.   If the ratio is terrible, players aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments to be had.

In short, they're only going to "pay" (in time) for the games they perceive as worthwhile.

  StoneRoses

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 911

1/08/12 1:17:17 AM#49
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by 77lolmac77
Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

Pretty sure in green would be described as grinding?

There is no definition of grinding.

 

To one person doing dozens of kill / bring x quests would be grind and to other it would not.

To one person killing mobs for xp would be grind and to other it would not.

To one person doing same dungeon(s) over and over to get enough tokens would be a grind and to other it would not.

To one person crafting would be a grind and to other it would not.

etc,

 

You get the point?

TIME SINK!

  Dewm

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/29/09
Posts: 1337

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/08/12 3:49:14 AM#50
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Dewm

 You obviously didnt' read my post. if you take the "McD's" arguement and make the TIME the "currency" then diffrent MMO's charge diffrent prices.

Example 34: FFXI takes 20 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 3 hours to level...total time: 3.5hrs

WoW takes, 2 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 10 minutes to level...total time: 22min

 Time = money

Wow (22min) is cheaper (cost less) then FFXI(3.5hrs)

 More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"

Putting aside the fact that your argument is completely nonsensical, WOW charged me 6 years of time because it was fun and rapidly got me from fun thing A to fun thing B, whereas FFX charged me 30 minutes of time because the UI/controls were terrible and it felt grindy even at the start.  So I guess the actual price being paid is quite a bit higher in WOW.

In reality, all people care about is return on investment -- invest x time, get y fun.   If the ratio is terrible, players aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments to be had.

In short, they're only going to "pay" (in time) for the games they perceive as worthwhile.

 

 

Wanna talk nonsensical argument.... you start posting your own expeirence in a game...so now that we are totaly throwing facts out the window.

 

I played FFXI for 2.5 years...AND LOVED IT. best MMO I"VE ever played... PERIOD!

 

WoW...I played for 2 months...burned through 90% of the content and quit...

 

and your "in reality, all peopel care about is return on investment.." so what you are saying is every single person out there that says "Oh I didn't like old games because it took me 3 hours to party, and I don't have for that." is full of it?

They "aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments"?

 

 

Pretty much what you are saying to me is...

WoW + 10milliion players = fun

McDonalds models doesn't work because time investment has nothing to do with a game popularity....

 

So your saying a player base has nothing to do with time investment... So IF someone made a game that took 4 hours to find a party, but it was "as much fun as WoW" it would still have 10million subs?

 

You leaves so many flaws in your argument I don't even know were to start...

  Jabas

Elite Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 483

1/08/12 4:45:47 AM#51
Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

I some way i agree with you.

I bealive games dont need to be only "grinding" mobs or only "grinding" quests.

Someone allready mentioned that quest should never be in chain mode, i agree 100%, grouping is much more dificult this way. Chain quests means solo adventure.

I like games where have zones for group "grinding" and some zones for solo "grinding" (ofc group zones gives much more xp), both in open world, no instance plz.

I like group quests where involves killing some harder mobs (and can be daylies).

 

After a few years in a quest grinding games, i start feeling the need to back to L2, because is where i found real comunity sense, its where i feel a living virtual world and every day i have to deal with diferent situations involving other players. It could be better?oh yes it could, but theres nothing better yet in the market for me.

But mmorpg market involves billions and billions, so we will keep see alot of new devs trying entering on this market, and i have hopes  one day some new devs will make a great game, imo ofc, because allready have low hopes for the existence "BIG" companys around.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/08/12 10:14:34 AM#52
Originally posted by Dewm

and your "in reality, all peopel care about is return on investment.." so what you are saying is every single person out there that says "Oh I didn't like old games because it took me 3 hours to party, and I don't have for that." is full of it?

They "aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments"? 

Pretty much what you are saying to me is...

WoW + 10milliion players = fun

McDonalds models doesn't work because time investment has nothing to do with a game popularity....

So your saying a player base has nothing to do with time investment... So IF someone made a game that took 4 hours to find a party, but it was "as much fun as WoW" it would still have 10million subs?

You leaves so many flaws in your argument I don't even know were to start...

This is very simple: if a game requires more time of players without providing more fun, players perceive the game as "less fun".

To use your version of the restaurant analogy, large-timesink MMORPGs are a $60 gourmet steak burger -- the exact same steak burger you can get for $12 in WOW.

If doing anything (finding a party or whatever) in an MMORPG arbitrarily takes more time in one game -- without being considerably more fun -- that game is just outright a worse game.

This is why the players complaining about the "race to endgame" make no sense.  They seem to be asking for leveling times to arbitrarily be increased without any other improvements -- as if the game would magically be more fun if all a developer did was make it take 5x as long to level.

  melton80

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 56

1/08/12 10:22:45 AM#53
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Dewm


Originally posted by dlld
There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.



how is it clear?
I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?



10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

 


 People need to actually understand why WoW has so many people, the main reason WoW has so many Subs is cause it is EASY, very easy really, and anyone can play it so they have a big player pool, 5 year olds could play WoW. My 7 year old nephew and his friends play WoW end-game on a 6 year old computer without any lag, and when i played i could raid with a couple add-ons and 2 macros while watching TV and eating and still be top 3 dps.  That is the point of missing old school play, you use to achieve something when you leveled up or killed a boss, now it is just instant gratification, in WoW you don't even need a skilled raid to kill end-game bosses, you can just throw together a bunch of noobs in town you never seen before and kill raid bosses, Wow and new games like it are no-skill required anymore, its all about instant gratification nowadays. EQ is one of the greatest games i ever played and would still be playing if i didn't retire from it 5 years ago and mis so many expansions.

  toddze

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2191

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

1/08/12 10:23:55 AM#54
Originally posted by Disdena

I agree with the OP. If the combat is fun, I would much rather spend 2 hours of constant combat in a group—even fighting exactly the same enemies from the same camp over and over—rather than be shuttled here and there among quest hubs to do 3 minutes of fighting before being ushered on to the next enemy type. And if the combat isn't particularly fun, I'd still rather be in a static stationary camp because it's conducive to social interaction. I do hope that at some point a retro game like that comes along.

I also agree with the OP and a lot of other posts. I cant stand being a little errand boy run around and do quests in zone A, then get sent to zoneB,C,D etc etc. I loved XI got into a group go do whatever you wanted to. theres no freedom of choice anymore. I just dont find being a little gopher fun in my mmo's. I think my head will explode in a firey rage if I have to deliver 1 more letter across town, or go kill 10 of "X" or gather 15 of "Y"

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  sazabi

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 396

1/08/12 10:28:42 AM#55
Originally posted by kishe

Good ol' times, I'd just go to zone around my level range, shout "XXX looking for XP group" get invite and start killing stuff while chatting away with rest of the group and having a laugh, It was far less grindy and tedious than running to town, picking up 12 quests, running across the map to do the 12 quests, running back to town to return the quests, running around town to find new 12 quests...etc etc.

Only social aspect left on MMOs are raids and even so, game after game reduces the amount of people you can bring to raid and reduces the amount of people you see in same zone with you...if same development continues, soon all MMOs will remind us of "Progressquest" where you just pressed a button and watched the game play itself for you (http://progressquest.com/)

 

 

 

i think what you mean is that when you go to town you have to consider what quests others have, since they are the main source of experience...

the problem with that is that there are so many variables in this.

people are sort of discouraged to grind mobs even if that means just partying along with your friends that didnt do 10 quests that you did even tho they are like only 1 level lower.

early level quests? not many people are doing them in groups as far as ive seen.

in world of warcraft for example people would rush to whatever level solo, because simply - there was no benefit to group other than the social aspect. in fact you could level faster solo.

so basically:

older mmos: more grindy gameplay which is actually less boring, because your mind process is different : 'i have to find a group'. thus the task becomes the secondary thing (the grind itself), and there is more focus on the primary thing (grouping and socialising). you had to make the 'mmo' part happen., one way or another pretty much.

new mmos: the task is more important. the reward, the exp. everyone want epic loot, fame and glory. you are not required to play mmo part, so if you dont care you can just ignore it. people are looking forward to epic loot that late game gives them, not the actual new possibilities of multiplayer. even if they want to experience those, by the time they are end game, they will be brainwashed to just want epic loot instead.

 

so new mmos basically get those very nice grouping tools and such which would have been insanely useful for the older ones.

however there is this taint called CASUAL SOLO GAMER that makes those great grouping possibilities quite useless.

the mmo which allows to solo everything, most likely kill a lot of their community building potential.

  User Deleted
1/08/12 10:36:45 AM#56
Originally posted by toddzeI think my head will explode in a firey rage if I have to deliver 1 more letter across town, or go kill 10 of "X" or gather 15 of "Y"

well you might want to stop playing MMOs then

or rather stop playing rpgs in general

try sticking to japanese visual novels

  rutaq

Elite Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 388

1/08/12 10:49:37 AM#57
Originally posted by Sepulcher
Originally posted by Dewm
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Dewm


Originally posted by dlld
There's really nothing stopping people from doing such, it's clear "questing" is a superior way of levelingin terms of enjoyment for the vast vast majority of people.



how is it clear?
I'm not trying to argue....i'm just wondering? is there some awesome study that I havn't heard of that proves this?



10,000,000+ WoW subscribers voting with their pocket books?

 

This old adage that because WoW has 10million players makes it MORE fun then any other game is just stupid. First off I like WoW...its a decent game for what it is. I am not a "wow-hater" BUT having said that....

Just because McDonalds outsellfs a 5star resterant doesn't make it better food.

Just because more people play WOW then play Risk, doesn't make Risk not as much fun..

 

Thats like saying, more people have seen the grandcanyon, then have been to the moon.....does that mean the grandcanyon is a better view? no...deffinitly not.

 

That comparisson does not work.  So please stop using it.

The day a McDonalds cheeseburger costs the same price as a steak give me a call.

You are comparing two things with unequal value.

Now compare the local restaraunt that has been around for 7 years with the new restaraunt that just opened up.  You only have enough money to go out to eat once a month.  On the one hand you have a restaraunt that has been around for a while, has evolved its menu to fit the demands of the customers and has reliable service and is clean.  Now on the other hand you have a new restaraunt with its new cuisine, but maybe the menu is missing some of those favorites you were hoping for, maybe the waiter is new and gets some of the orders mixed up, and maybe the place isn't as friendly as the old place.

10 million players have chosen to enjoy the menu that has evolved to fit their tastes, with reliable service, and a well polished place to enjoy it.  They may be eating the same food, but they are enoying it,  have many friends who eat there too that they can sit and have dinner with, and they are comfortable knowing that tomorrow the restaraunt will still be there and still serve their favorites.

Stop acting like everyone who plays wow is some bottom feeding moron who is being zombified into playing a shitty game because they are hopelessly addicted.

Risk may suck to many people so it being fun is not definitive.

Someone may find the view of the Grand Canyon with its many colors, winding waters, and wildlife more appealing than a grey rock floating in a black void with white dots in the sky.

It is all subjective and your opinion isn't the one in which the world runs itself.

 

The anaolgy is fine, don't be so narrow minded.     The price of a cheeseburger compared to a steak is irrelevant.    Think of the amount of time you spend eating instead.

 

So if 10 million people spend 1 hour eating McDonald's per week it doesn't make the food better than 1000 people spending 1 hour dining on a good steak.

 

WoW player are not bottom feeding morons, but they are spending time playing a game that prides itself on making it as easy as possible, requiring as little effort as possible, as little attention as possible, with as little challenege as possible. 

It is like being an adult and arguing that playing tic-tac-toe is a better game than chess.   You can still have fun playing tic-tac-toe but you have no basis to proclaim it being some amazing game.    

 

In case you forgot:

 

 

game/gam/

 
Noun:
A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
 
You should be concerned when "Game" designers announce that to make the game better they will be making Raid encounters easier to defeat and will give out even mkre powerful rewards... 
 
At some point when the competitive aspects are so muted and  things are so streamlined, so easy and so over rewarding it simply isn't a game any more and instead you should call it   WoW'ing off.
 
 
  StoneRoses

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 911

1/08/12 11:23:34 AM#58
Originally posted by Dewm
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Dewm

 You obviously didnt' read my post. if you take the "McD's" arguement and make the TIME the "currency" then diffrent MMO's charge diffrent prices.

Example 34: FFXI takes 20 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 3 hours to level...total time: 3.5hrs

WoW takes, 2 minutes to get to location, 10 minutes to find group, 10 minutes to level...total time: 22min

 Time = money

Wow (22min) is cheaper (cost less) then FFXI(3.5hrs)

 More people play wow because it takes less time and because their friends play....not because its "more fun"

Putting aside the fact that your argument is completely nonsensical, WOW charged me 6 years of time because it was fun and rapidly got me from fun thing A to fun thing B, whereas FFX charged me 30 minutes of time because the UI/controls were terrible and it felt grindy even at the start.  So I guess the actual price being paid is quite a bit higher in WOW.

In reality, all people care about is return on investment -- invest x time, get y fun.   If the ratio is terrible, players aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments to be had.

In short, they're only going to "pay" (in time) for the games they perceive as worthwhile.

 

 

Wanna talk nonsensical argument.... you start posting your own expeirence in a game...so now that we are totaly throwing facts out the window.

 

I played FFXI for 2.5 years...AND LOVED IT. best MMO I"VE ever played... PERIOD!

 

WoW...I played for 2 months...burned through 90% of the content and quit...

 

and your "in reality, all peopel care about is return on investment.." so what you are saying is every single person out there that says "Oh I didn't like old games because it took me 3 hours to party, and I don't have for that." is full of it?

They "aren't going to stick around long because there are more efficient time investments"?

 

 

Pretty much what you are saying to me is...

WoW + 10milliion players = fun

McDonalds models doesn't work because time investment has nothing to do with a game popularity....

 

So your saying a player base has nothing to do with time investment... So IF someone made a game that took 4 hours to find a party, but it was "as much fun as WoW" it would still have 10million subs?

 

You leaves so many flaws in your argument I don't even know were to start...

This sounds more like FFXI was your style of gameplay and a preferance. In your opinion it's the best MMO ever,  though you forget games like WoW have a targeted audiance, just like Aion, AoC, and STO, you can't convince them other wise.

  dlld

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/08
Posts: 510

1/08/12 12:06:35 PM#59
Originally posted by rutaq

So if 10 million people spend 1 hour eating McDonald's per week it doesn't make the food better than 1000 people spending 1 hour dining on a good steak.

Which is why the comparison doesn't work.

There are so many variables that makes McDonalds a reasonable place to eat for many over other places despite the food not being the best (at least scientifically in health terms) that does not correlate to an mmo vs mmo.

- Price: rather self explanatory actually this is very contradictory to a comparison to mcdonalds since wow's pricing is the highest in the market while mcdonalds is relatively cheap.

- Availibility: Virtually all mmo's are available in the same store and/or on the interent there's nothing comparable to driving for two hours to eat at resturant x instead of mcdonalds around the corner in mmo terms.

- Speed: MMO's have no wait time until you get to partake in the service (specific server queus do not coun't) they are all equal in footing IE instant, not so much for resturants.

- Food: there's just a slight difference between offering a product that is necessary to live and a specifc form of entertainment very very few people (relative to world population) enjoy.

  BCuse

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/05
Posts: 140

1/08/12 12:17:15 PM#60

me too!

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search