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1/06/12 6:03:59 PM#21
Originally posted by Castillle My reaction when I started playing WoW was the opposite. I was fascinated by all those quests and was having so much fun doing them that I stopped caring about leveling. I got really sad when I run out of quests because I was too low level for the ones in my area. I loved the idea that I really did not have to worry about how much XP per hour I was getting and could focus on exploring and doing interesting missions. |
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1/06/12 6:15:53 PM#22
Originally posted by 77lolmac77
I would say social and grouping?, but hey everything is a grind even IRL no? If it's not broken, you are not innovating. |
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1/06/12 6:16:29 PM#23
Originally posted by fenistil It's rare to find someone who doesn't feel the variety questing introduced isn't obviously superior to endlessly grinding mobs. Personally I tried a ton of early MMORPGs and the excessive grind and weak combat made me give up each one rapidly -- until a game came along with a varied grind and superior combat. Grind is excessive repetition. Quests are reduced repetition, by varying activities. Pretty straightforward. |
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1/06/12 6:18:02 PM#24
Originally posted by Castillle Back in vanilla there was a lot level ranges were it was faster to just grind at the right spots (some where more class specific) actually I think overall in vanilla pure grinding through the entire game wasn't very far off from a only questing way and i'm pretty sure it wasn't even possible to only single quest through the entire game with bare minimum kills you'd had to grind or do instances/elite quests with other people. And that was a very common complaint, people simply didn't want to grind when there was an alternative, the relative non grindiness of wow was one of it's major selling points and celebrated feature. Also how many posts do you see everyday with people saying "Bring back xp gaps so we have to grind!" or "Reduce quest xp or remove quests, i want to just grind!".
The wow (or singleplayer rather) style quest feature/system is horrible, outdated and archaic for an mmo today but it is a huuuuuuuuuuge step up from pure meaningless grind which is why it was implemented in the first place. The next huge step is going to be GW2's dynamic events, fixing so many problems that are inherent in the singleplayer inhereted quest-system. |
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Dewm
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/29/09
Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this. |
1/06/12 8:38:45 PM#25
Originally posted by AlBQuirky This old adage that because WoW has 10million players makes it MORE fun then any other game is just stupid. First off I like WoW...its a decent game for what it is. I am not a "wow-hater" BUT having said that.... Just because McDonalds outsellfs a 5star resterant doesn't make it better food. Just because more people play WOW then play Risk, doesn't make Risk not as much fun..
Thats like saying, more people have seen the grandcanyon, then have been to the moon.....does that mean the grandcanyon is a better view? no...deffinitly not.
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Cuathon
Hard Core Member
Joined: 10/24/04
Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us. |
1/06/12 9:09:01 PM#26
Originally posted by Dewm
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1/06/12 9:34:06 PM#27
Originally posted by Dewm Oh please, don't bring up the mcdonalds argument it's such an extremely flawed comparison. However the "10 mill subs != bestest game ever" is true just don't bring up mcdonalds in the same sentance.. or anything else really, a boardgame comparison isn't much better either. Instead point out actual reasons why it has so much subs in comparison to other mmos like the poster below you. |
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1/06/12 9:35:00 PM#28
Originally posted by Dewm That comparisson does not work. So please stop using it. The day a McDonalds cheeseburger costs the same price as a steak give me a call. You are comparing two things with unequal value. Now compare the local restaraunt that has been around for 7 years with the new restaraunt that just opened up. You only have enough money to go out to eat once a month. On the one hand you have a restaraunt that has been around for a while, has evolved its menu to fit the demands of the customers and has reliable service and is clean. Now on the other hand you have a new restaraunt with its new cuisine, but maybe the menu is missing some of those favorites you were hoping for, maybe the waiter is new and gets some of the orders mixed up, and maybe the place isn't as friendly as the old place. 10 million players have chosen to enjoy the menu that has evolved to fit their tastes, with reliable service, and a well polished place to enjoy it. They may be eating the same food, but they are enoying it, have many friends who eat there too that they can sit and have dinner with, and they are comfortable knowing that tomorrow the restaraunt will still be there and still serve their favorites. Stop acting like everyone who plays wow is some bottom feeding moron who is being zombified into playing a shitty game because they are hopelessly addicted. Risk may suck to many people so it being fun is not definitive. Someone may find the view of the Grand Canyon with its many colors, winding waters, and wildlife more appealing than a grey rock floating in a black void with white dots in the sky. It is all subjective and your opinion isn't the one in which the world runs itself. |
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1/07/12 1:48:50 AM#29
Originally posted by Castillle
I am not slightly hyped by it and I think you're going to be slightly disappointed when it's released.
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1/07/12 2:16:57 AM#30
Originally posted by kishe TotalBiscuit on Youtube talking about Serious Sam 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW7_qstvmI0My favorite part is when he says "Do we still need old FPS games to come out? I SAY YES!" This is relevant to the discussion because old school MMORPGs are subject to time passing just as much as old school FPS. We just need old school developers to make old school games and then we need to buy those games to support them and get as much advertising for them as possible. Really wish there was a Dark Age of Camelot 2 but there may never be one. I'll just have to wait for some kind of old school throwback to come along and support the brownies out of it. Big gaming companies who make games like Call of Duty just don't make games like Serious Sam, Tribes, id software shooters, or Duke Nukem. They focus on competitive esport gaming. Even id software does that now with Quake 3/QuakeLIVE and failed then dropped out of that contest to make RAGE to lick their wounds. It takes small indie companies to make awesome pointless games just for fun because that revolves around ideas that may not make money whereas competitive esport gaming does. The difference is a long time ago the only games were made by small indie companies who risked sticking their necks out in gaming industry fields that were new like the first internet based games. There is plenty of information you can find on startup companies like that. Meridian 59 has a game history page for example that says they were one of the first internet games programmed by a formal computer science major. Imagine that. Now that we have big gaming software companies it's their job to crush their competition (that's just business) so obviously the small indie developers can't compete with the shear amount of software those machines can pump out so they get crushed. That's just life apparently. No other way around it. Just have to support the indies. Course it's really hard to when the big companies offer such well polished content. One good example is I supported Trine 1 when the developers said they would make a coop option in the game if enough people liked it. So I bought and supported Trine 1 by gifting the game to other people through Steam and told people about it. There is now a Trine 2 with 3 player coop (and it's awesome and I love it). Feels good to make a difference with my wallet! |
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1/07/12 4:08:10 AM#31
Originally posted by kishe
Well said and so many times agreed I'm simple not interested I having my own little instance crap, just let me /ooc "looking for PoK AA 250 EXP - NM " thing and have fun while playing and chatting away with like minded people. Quests are the stupidest, most boring and braindead crap combined with instances I've ever experienced in MMORPGs and yet more and more games are having this poor excuse of game design. Really hoping ArcheAge will feel this void for us. |
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1/07/12 6:12:57 AM#32
Bad examples for comparison. CAN you get to the moon? I certainly do not have the capability. A 5 star restaurant gets that rating from a few critics, not the populace. Have you ever voted to give a 5 star rating? Does your 5 star rated restaurant have plates with a tiny spot of food with lots of pretty squigglies on it for a main course charging $100 for "the experience"? Now, back to WoW. I don't think it is the greatest game ever. However, 10,000,000 people find it fun enough to subscribe. Check the underlined portion in the quote. This is not a statement about how great a game is, it is a point about what people find "fun". I tend to believe people vote with their pocketbooks. If they are having fun, they play a game. If not, they quit. Kind of a simple way to gauge if people are having fun playing a game, don't you think? Remember, it is not a question about whether or not *you* (or I or anyone else personally) think it is fun. It is about what other gamers (en masse and in general) find fun. - Al Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. |
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1/07/12 6:31:39 AM#33
"Looking for Heckler team, PST".. sounds familiar to anyone ? |
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1/07/12 6:37:01 AM#34
The 30-40 Champions online PvE was pretty decent, getting up there was rather painful though. I still find that game incredibly broken as all hell, but the monster island theme, and the end of the world theme were actually pretty decent.
The iconic sense of mmo questing, really never made any sense to me unfortunately. It just seemed rather pointless to have to run back to the appropriate npc after every quest. I mean really, how is dumbledore going to know if I killed 10 whatevers? Collection quests do make sense, but then that leaves me to ask the question, since when did Heros become an errand service? |
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1/07/12 6:39:28 AM#35
Originally posted by Axehilt Well I never said I don't agree. Sure that quests are more interesting than just killing mobs over and over BUT quests also do have preety big disadvantages. It atomize players and artifically forces sologication because players are at diffrent part of quest / quest-lines / zones/ etc you get the idea.
Thing is to make gameplay more interesting than just killing respawning mobs and allow players to group up in open world and not punishing them for it (nowadays if I group up with someone who is not on the same quest either I have to repeat quests I already done with him or he has to). |
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1/07/12 12:30:24 PM#36
Originally posted by fenistil It only does that in some games though. As an example, the fastest you can level in WOW is by grouping (and you can spend 40-99% of your time grouping, depending on your class role.) And ironically running dungeons 99% of the time in WOW sometimes doesn't feel a whole lot different than the old Endless Monster Grind (which is actually a strike against it, even though it's my favorite way to level.) |
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1/07/12 12:39:51 PM#37
Originally posted by Sepulcher I must say, that was a spot-on analogy. Never heard it put that way, but it makes a lot of sense lol. |
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1/07/12 12:41:53 PM#38
Originally posted by yewsef I am also not even slightly hyped for GW2. I think it will be a disappointment to a lot of folks. Too many companies promise the grass is greener in their game, but it usually turns out to be the same yellow-ish nasty grass that we are tired of messing with. |
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Dewm
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/29/09
Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this. |
1/07/12 1:22:59 PM#39
Originally posted by Sepulcher
UHmmm look what I wrote in "red"................or maybe you did and you can't read?
Now in the McDonalds addage I don't see why it doesn't work. Just take the money in the food anolgy and turn it into the game anolgy it equals time.
So WoW (you hop on for 30 minutes and play) way less time then say FFXI where you can to play for like 3hrs (short for hours) and Mcdonalds you buy a burger for 2 bucks....whereas you go to a nice place you'll pay 30.00 for that steak.)
Its honestly the same thing, And saying that more people play WoW = more fun...its very narrow minded of you. (i'm calling you thick in the head)
I added the pictures so maybe this time you can follow along.
kthnxby
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1/07/12 1:46:18 PM#40
Originally posted by ActionMMORPG Same here. If thats the case I love games where you need to "grind" your way to the top like Anarchy Online and Everquest. |
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