The point is that many are trying to get thrue the fanboi firewall is that the game could be much better, what TOR is a singleplayer MMO and really nothing more.

Why cant the mobs be more active, why cant the quests be more different i'ts always kill x amount of mobs to the target quest circle click a few items and get "optional" quest kill shitloads of more, the quest are all the same.

Check EQ2, Vanguard, SWG to name a few how to mix quests.

What about housing?, no your spaceship is not anything close to housing.

Exploring whart happend to that it's a frikkin space game, you cant explore anything just funle thrue a planet doing quest hub after a quest hub with mindboring voicovers to kill a few uninportant mobs.

Bioware is a big company EA is evev bigger and what did we get..........a game that would rock your socks off 2001, this is 2011 beginning of 2012 and we have travled back in time with this game, i really dont get it.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Honest question to keep discussion going: if the score wasn't there, and we were just talking about Mike's words, would this whole argument even be taking place?

It's not ultimately the numbers that matter, a B grade, 4-stars, 8/10, 87/100, three and a half thumbs up... it's the content.  And even there you may have things to contend.  But the actual words are what matter is my angle.

You are correct Bill, that the actual written review is better than the associated scores. The review even touches on a few flaws here and there, while in the end downplaying their impact. At other times, the article puts the most positive spin on things in a way that makes clear the motive is to find a way to portray this mediocre game in a much more flattering light than it deserves.

The scores are the lighting rod. Not only are they too high in almost every instance, incongruously so when paired with elements of the game that are sorely lacking, but often they don't even gel with what the reviewer has said in relation to a given aspect of the game.

The same review could just have easily been paired with a score of 7.8 and it not only would have been a bit closer to the truth, but it probably would have been a much better reflection of the pros and cons put forth in the article. Subtract the spin from the review and you end up with a game in the low 7s, which is probably what the game currently deserves.

The commentary on polish and the game being an example of EA not always rushing games to launch prematurely surely tips the hat on the goal of the review, spin. Many of the most seriously flaws of the game are pretty clearly linked to the fact that the game was rushed. It really needed another six months or more. If the game had been budgeted for a five year development, instead of four, it's even possible that some of the more fundamental problems could have been avoided. So much here seems a compromise to a too limited development window, not the least of which is the game engine itself, which is not adequate in any way for an MMO that aims to be a serious contender as a top tier title.

how can u do a review of game not even out a month yet?

when titanic the movie came out not even a day all the reviews where this is a pos movie and its god aweful then a month later its the biggest movie of all time (i think its a pos movie myself though lolz)

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Honest question to keep discussion going: if the score wasn't there, and we were just talking about Mike's words, would this whole argument even be taking place?

It's not ultimately the numbers that matter, a B grade, 4-stars, 8/10, 87/100, three and a half thumbs up... it's the content. And even there you may have things to contend. But the actual words are what matter is my angle.

 

The main problem I have with the whole review are the scores. They're so out of place with what the reviewer described in the text. For example, after saying the cutscenes were innovative, he went on to say, "On the flip side, BioWare doesn’t do much else that’s innovative with Star Wars: The Old Republic. Crew Skills are certainly neat, as I described above, but other than that, the game is purely derivative of games like World of Warcraft, and is even missing quite a few features some may consider “standard” at this point."

Yet somehow, Innovation scores an 8. How?! By his own admission the only thing that's really added anything new to the genre are voice overs, that's eit, and some standards of MMO's are even missing.

I also disagree with some of the things he has to say, such as this, "While your class story is a largely single-player experience (friends can help you with the combat portions or spectate the cutscenes), the vast majority of the game content is multiplayer in nature, and just as story-centric.".

Which frankly just isn't true. Almost everything you do is largely a single-player experience, he even admits as much on the next page where he says, "You run around the world and do quests (that happen to have dialogue and cinematics) and you group up for a couple of heroic quests per world.".

A couple per world. That's hardly the vast majority of content being multiplayer, is it?

And polish. 9.5/10?! I got to a max level of 26 before I quit and I'd seen a ton of bugs and encountered a load of problems before then. At one point my Jedi Guardian leapt across at an enemy and ended up stuck under the world. That's hardly polished.

So really, this just isn't a fact, "Fortunately, BioWare seems to have drilled all this into their heads when developing this game, possibly to a fault, given how long it took the game to come out. They’ve been polishing this game for what seems like an eternity – and it shows. Sure, there are bugs and some issues, but overall the game is incredibly polished.".

So it isn't incredibly polished. It has bugs that have been killing the economy, that allowed people to exploit their way to 50 in record time, as well as bugs that cause a variety of other problems. He seems to have stuck his head in the sand here and cried, "Nope! Nothing wrong!".

Finally, he really explains nothing about the actualy gameplay. The gameplay generally comes down to a voiceover with a reason to go somewhere and click three glowing items that are hidden between a bunch of mobs that stand around waiting to die. That's basically it. The vast majority of quests are the same thing over and over.

i dont care about scores or much else when a game hasnt even been out a month how can anyone review it good or bad is just stupid. If it werent a mmo i would understand but this bieng a mmo least let it be a month before any review...

Originally posted by starwarsnut

i dont care about scores or much else when a game hasnt even been out a month how can anyone review it good or bad is just stupid. If it werent a mmo i would understand but this bieng a mmo least let it be a month before any review...

why?  have you played it?  right now it is a good game.   not great, but good.  the UI is holding it back, really, outside that the game is very nice.

longevity you are right on, we have to wait and see, but in every other category you can make an informed comment on it now.

Couple things about TOR:

1) There are more than "a couple" of heroic quests per world and there are also instanced dungeons at every level stage... not to mention PvP.  This game has more heroic quests than Rift or WoW, yet I didn't hear people saying those games weren't MMORPGs...

2) Innovation in TOR takes the form of questing being more like an RPG experience than anything that has come before it.  In addition, there is implementation of a decent mini game, awesome companions with their own stories, excellent crafting system, a good job with handling instanced PvP (world pvp on the other hand...) and all things that, while not ground breaking, were implemented in an innovative way that deserves a good, not great, ranking.  8 may be too high, but not by much; if you're talking about innovation in themeparks, this is about as innovative a title as you'll get in this genre. 

As to bugs...

There were as many bugs, if not more, in every major MMO release I've played.  If you got to level 26, how have you experienced these economy-breaking bugs?  Or were you just reading about them on the forums?  The economy isn't broken because the game hasn't been out long enough to have one to break.  Bioware acted fast enough to prevent any long term damage.  EVERY MMO has bugs, this game plays well despite the bugs. 

My first character, a shadow, would also have given 9.5 as polish, but my guardian, I think I'd give it a little lower, maybe a 9 or 8.5  Overall though this is a very polished game.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Honest question to keep discussion going: if the score wasn't there, and we were just talking about Mike's words, would this whole argument even be taking place?

It's not ultimately the numbers that matter, a B grade, 4-stars, 8/10, 87/100, three and a half thumbs up... it's the content.  And even there you may have things to contend.  But the actual words are what matter is my angle.

I don't take "official" reviews here seriously, and here's an example of why based on this review:

Innovation 8/10

First he claims that the story somehow miraculously oozes innovation and then turns around and says, "On the flip side, BioWare doesn’t do much else that’s innovative with Star Wars: The Old Republic."

What?! I don't even know what to say about that other than it's ridiculous and why some people here claim you all can be bought and paid for. Story IS NOT and will NEVER BE some crazy innovation. Geez...

I haven't played the game so I won't try and comment on the rest, others have and will cover those issues. But I've spent plenty of time researching this game and I knew just from my research that this game wasn't going to be innovative for the industry, and trying to justify a 8/10 score is asinine IMO.

The line between credibility and bias is very thin, perhaps an in-house review would be something to look into.

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Honest question to keep discussion going: if the score wasn't there, and we were just talking about Mike's words, would this whole argument even be taking place?

It's not ultimately the numbers that matter, a B grade, 4-stars, 8/10, 87/100, three and a half thumbs up... it's the content.  And even there you may have things to contend.  But the actual words are what matter is my angle.

I don't take "official" reviews here seriously, and here's an example of why based on this review:

Innovation 8/10

First he claims that the story somehow miraculously oozes innovation and then turns around and says, "On the flip side, BioWare doesn’t do much else that’s innovative with Star Wars: The Old Republic."

What?! I don't even know what to say about that other than it's ridiculous and why some people here claim you all can be bought and paid for. Story IS NOT and will NEVER BE some crazy innovation. Geez...

I haven't played the game so I won't try and comment on the rest, others have and will cover those issues. But I've spent plenty of time researching this game and I knew just from my research that this game wasn't going to be innovative for the industry, and trying to justify a 8/10 score is asinine IMO.

The line between credibility and bias is very thin, perhaps an in-house review would be something to look into.

the way the story is implemented is what is innovative.

Originally posted by mav1234

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Honest question to keep discussion going: if the score wasn't there, and we were just talking about Mike's words, would this whole argument even be taking place?

It's not ultimately the numbers that matter, a B grade, 4-stars, 8/10, 87/100, three and a half thumbs up... it's the content.  And even there you may have things to contend.  But the actual words are what matter is my angle.

I don't take "official" reviews here seriously, and here's an example of why based on this review:

Innovation 8/10

First he claims that the story somehow miraculously oozes innovation and then turns around and says, "On the flip side, BioWare doesn’t do much else that’s innovative with Star Wars: The Old Republic."

What?! I don't even know what to say about that other than it's ridiculous and why some people here claim you all can be bought and paid for. Story IS NOT and will NEVER BE some crazy innovation. Geez...

I haven't played the game so I won't try and comment on the rest, others have and will cover those issues. But I've spent plenty of time researching this game and I knew just from my research that this game wasn't going to be innovative for the industry, and trying to justify a 8/10 score is asinine IMO.

The line between credibility and bias is very thin, perhaps an in-house review would be something to look into.

the way the story is implemented is what is innovative.

There is nothing innovative about story-driven content regardless of how and when you implement the video into the game. Period.

Yes only a slight problem.

This review skips some of the key things of a 2010/2011 based MMORPG Title.

1. Lack OF Customization on character.

2. Lack OF Open World PVP

3. The Unbalance in PVP

4. Also the fact that really the Developers OF SWTOR really did not make anything new at all in a MMORPG Title it all feels like World OF Warcraft, and the only thing they did was take things like a story and give options like Mass Effect series that is all really and that was something good but not really what makes the whole game play experience enjoyable.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by MikeB

By the way, to any and all of you who disagree with our score. Why not write your own review here? ;)

 

**snip**

 

Now this is how you write a none biased review, focusing on all aspect of the current game not as the OPs review who based it only StarWars,Bioware and Voiceovers and rate it.

 

Looks just as subjective to me, there's no such thing as an unbiased opinion or experience, and that's what both of these reviews are based on.

An unbiased review focuses on the inner workings of a game and that's it, there are very few of these coming from gaming sites or mags or fans, almost all of these reviews are based on experience and opinion.

My experience has been nothing like what Deewe brought up in his "polish" section. So based on my experience, my review would read completely different. See how that works?

So I guess you can move your UI frames around, have AA and no visual bugs (yes I know you can enable it client side), you also have the high textures, and you never notice the camera angles in cutscene. Then you never PvP or at least not on Illum and don't want to choose the warfront you want to queue for. Also you never used group chat nor guild chat that much during the last fews days and never see the "player does not exists" message when adding someone to your friendlist. Also you never experienced lost emails, like the ones sent to your deleted and re-created toon. Finally glad to see you also aren't like many others stuck with your character unable to gain any more light side or dark side points, nor you companion affection is stuck or you have affectiom popup in cutscene and your affection score does not change at all!

 

I'm not saying the game is bad. It's just lacking and certainly not polished at all. Or would I say very uneven.

 

 

How many of those have YOU encountered?  Because I didn't encounter ANY of them.

 

I have encountered bugs...  This one time I died in Huttball and respawned in the respawn area...then DIED AGAIN.. while in the respawn area.. and it didn't let me respawn anymore so I sat there until the game kicked me out due to staying in the spawn point.

 

I've had a bug where the boss of a trooper mission spawned in the ceiling and could shoot me anywhere on the map while I couldn't target or shoot him at all.

 

I've had a bug where, after sitting through a 30 minute queue, I received a CTD upon character log-in and had to come back to a 45 minute queue! 

 

I've had some issues,  but didn't have ANY of those that you spoke about.. not even the guild chat problem, though others in my guild mentioned having it.

 

The point is,  why base polish off of problems OTHER people are having, why not base it off of the problems you personally experience.    I have a friend who gets the blackscreen error,  but she also has an underpowered computer (that doesn't meet minimum requirements) with an integrated graphics card... :shrug: 

• Can you move around the UI frames?
• Can you enable in game AA and not have bugs?
• Does checking high textures enable them?
• Can you queue to a specific warfront?
• Do you pretend Illum isn't broken at the moment?
• Are you denying there wasn't any major issue with party and guild chat?

If you replied yes to any of the above you are either delusional or making a fool of yourself on these forums. And yes it''s all about polishing.

Now I never said I did not experience the above bugs. For the record I did experience all the bugs I mentioned in my OP, but the black screen of death and, unless I have some network streaming in the background, I'm keeping having the disconnection error 9000/2005 roundly every 10 minutes or so,

BTW nor my computer nor my internet connection are underpowered nor is my OS is badly set up. As a former IT admin rest assured I know how to setup and maintain a perfectly fit OS. And as you might wonder all my hardware is not only high end quality but not even OC: Intel, Asus, Mushkin, Seasonic, you name it.

Don't think I'm mad at BioWare, they are indeed guilty of delivering the game in this, less than stellar, polish status but as a MMO vet I'm used to pay for beta testing MMO during the first +/- 6 months.

At least there are still companies that do deliver polished MMO. Sadly with TOR BioWare isn't one of them. I just hope they'll learn from their errors so their Mass Effect MMO will be polished.

As ending in a polished MMO the world feels alive, with moving NPC/mobs, critters, environmental sounds, day/night cycles. for now TOR feels like a huge graveyard.

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

• Can you move around the UI frames?
• Can you enable in game AA and not have bugs?
• Does checking high textures enable them?
• Can you queue to a specific warfront?
• Do you pretend Illum isn't broken at the moment?
• Are you denying there wasn't any major issue with party and guild chat?

 

If you replied yes to any of the above you are either delusional or making a fool of yourself on these forums. And yes it''s all about polishing.

Now I never said I did not experience the above bugs. For the record I did experience all the bugs I mentioned in my OP, but the black screen of death and, unless I have some network streaming in the background, I'm keeping having the disconnection error 9000/2005 roundly every 10 minutes or so,

BTW nor my computer nor my internet connection are underpowered nor is my OS is badly set up. As a former IT admin rest assured I know how to setup and maintain a perfectly fit OS. And as you might wonder all my hardware is not only high end quality but not even OC: Intel, Asus, Mushkin, Seasonic, you name it.

 

Don't think I'm mad at BioWare, they are indeed guilty of delivering the game in this, less than stellar, polish status but as a MMO vet I'm used to pay for beta testing MMO during the first +/- 6 months.

At least there are still companies that do deliver polished MMO. Sadly with TOR BioWare isn't one of them. I just hope they'll learn from their errors so their Mass Effect MMO will be polished.

 

As ending in a polished MMO the world feels alive, with moving NPC/mobs, critters, environmental sounds, day/night cycles. for now TOR feels like a huge graveyard.

I would hope you're not mad at BioWare, afterall you tested the game and if you're still playing, then it isn't their fault.

As for things like the UI or picking the warfront you want to play, yeah, again, issues prior to launch.  Black screen or disconnect errors,  are not issues I've ever experienced first hand, and I don't have the best PC in the world.

The game is very polished,  and a lot of people hold that opinion.  No game is without problems.  At the end of the day this has been one of, if not the most polished MMO I've played on launch, and thats saying something - I've been around for a lot of releases, and a lot of tests.   

Its not absurd to want a customizable UI,  more character creation options and things of that nature,  and I've been pretty vocal about all of that,  but honestly the buck stops when people start thinking the game is somehow "unplayable" or "not polished" due to an incessant bias of issues where they may be a minority in experiencing.   I can guarantee there are issues I've encountered that plenty probably haven't...  but nothing has hindered my gameplay unlike some of the other most recent launches.

Originally posted by Renoaku

Yes only a slight problem.

This review skips some of the key things of a 2010/2011 based MMORPG Title.

1. Lack OF Customization on character.

2. Lack OF Open World PVP

3. The Unbalance in PVP

4. Also the fact that really the Developers OF SWTOR really did not make anything new at all in a MMORPG Title it all feels like World OF Warcraft, and the only thing they did was take things like a story and give options like Mass Effect series that is all really and that was something good but not really what makes the whole game play experience enjoyable.

 

Its nothing like Warcraft because it has those Mass effect style storylines . The quests are pretty standard fair for any mmo . You got the same sort of quests in games that preceeeded Warcraft so why not say its like Everquest ? WoW wasn't orginal it took ideas from games that came before it and game released since it . Each mmo offers a few new ideas but if you can think up something totally new and innovative that would keep people playing for months or years that is feasable and groundbreaking  I would love to hear it ?

Otherwise accept that every mmo will be based around a similar basic set up that started with games like anarky online , everquest or darkage of camelot all of which came out years before warcraft .

Because it was most likly your first mmo it doesn't make it the first ever mmo and WoW itself was part of the evolution of the mmo genre just as ToR is .

I cant believe they reviewed it to a 8.7/10.

I beta'ed, gave it another chance on headstart before im hanging up my saber for good now after a week in final.

3/10 is my rating..

This is supposed to be an mmorpg site, and I dont even feel SWTOR falls under that category.. its not massive at least..

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Honest question to keep discussion going: if the score wasn't there, and we were just talking about Mike's words, would this whole argument even be taking place?

It's not ultimately the numbers that matter, a B grade, 4-stars, 8/10, 87/100, three and a half thumbs up... it's the content.  And even there you may have things to contend.  But the actual words are what matter is my angle.

To be honest the review isn't that far off in the text, still when the numbers doesn't match it looks a bit silly.

Rrmove the numbers and let's see how the people will react.

Or for the fun ask players guess the rating based on Mike's text. Could be much surprizing ;)

Fyi, IGN just gave it a 9.0 :)

This review is consistant with what most reviewers think.  Again, good job mmorpg.com

So far up to this point i have 95% of people complaining about the game.. Is their not anythiny people Like about the game?

Originally posted by booheads

Fyi, IGN just gave it a 9.0 :)

 

This review is consistant with what most reviewers think.  Again, good job mmorpg.com

 

Boohead you have to be a boohead in order to think IGN giving it a 9/10 is good

Though fair score would be 7.5 for me but like this review it's an opinion.

There are facts though that really do make me question what people are rating honestly, it's a good current gen mmorpg.

What doesn't make sense is ability delays, and bad PVP, when it's faction based.

I'd say people should rveiew games on what it is a few months after release at least mmorpgs.

But eh well, it would be pretty cool for someone to say I love this game but right now it's a 7.5 however you know what that leads to.

really anhyone who goes below a 5 is worse then people given it a 9. Sorry but its true. Sure the game has faults, limited character customization , a non customizable ui,  That said it is a very smooth well polished game. 

it deserves a 6 based on content and plish alone.  Throw in that fact that the story aspects are top notch, thae pvp by the way for me is fun and i dont have ability delay in pvp yet so for some reason that hasnt affected me.

u dont have to like tor to give it a 6, prsonally i say its an 8, the ui and lack of body types to me bring the total score down and it does still have some quest killing bugs , So id say its an 8 but i love tor and have played it alot, 

To say its a 3 is just ridiculous.