Originally posted by bill4747

While the CONCEPT of permadeath is great, and it adds danger and excitement, there are three big reasons I would prefer not to have it in a game I am playing.

 

2) Players will be forced somewhat to play as 'cowards' that take no real risks.

 

I think this is the biggest issue.

I can't tell you how many times I've been in a group and we've wiped and people didn't want to keep trying it because they were afraid to lose a little xp or afraid of the repair bill.

So basically what you want is a MOBA instead of an MMORPG.  Do I understand you correctly?

I don't fear it one bit.  Because I'll never play an MMO that has it.

You just cannot have perma death in any major MMO.  It is just not feasible.  The internet and especially ISP's are just not stable enough.  Because of that, it would be a support nightmare.   Any developer even comtemplating it is being sadistic to their support staff.

 What are you going to do when you ISP resets the line or a router you need suddenly gets jammed, just when you are in a fight of any sort or in a dangerous area.  Yes, you just lost your character.

Guess how long you would be playing that game after a few incidents like that.  Good luck trying to keep a friends list.

[Mod Edit]

Meridian 59 has the best death penalties, the way it was meant to be, full loot and pretty harsh stat loss, kept you on your toes at all times.

I might try a f2p game with permadeath for the novelty, but I wouldn't invest a significant amount of time or money into it.

The main "permadeath" games I've played are browser RTS games like Travian or Grepolis. I have lots of fun for about a week as I expand my civilization, after which I am crushed by stronger players and must either restart or quit the game. I choose the latter.

However, it might be novel to have something like this with an MMORPG where the server resets every 6 months or so and the winners of that "survival of the fittest" round are lauded.

One problem I'd like to see overcome is the ability to catch-up if you start a civilization/character more than a few days after the server opens. This might work if the game was more skill-based than time-progression-based, or if the main awards were for cooperative group successes.

For a game I would invest lots of time and money into, however, I think the minimal but potentially frustrating death consequences of a game like SWTOR are optimal.

-Jorvias

So people only willing to pay for a guaranteed successs in a game in a set time span. How boring. More risk = more excitement.

Problem usually isn't the permadeath itself, but the "criminal flagging"/lack of it, glitches and exploits in PD utilizing games allowing excessive griefing. With the right support mechanics permadeath can be done right. 

There are only two ways I could see permadeath working. The first is if death is insanely rare. And I think that would sort of defeat the purpose. Second would be if characters required practically no time investment and were little more than pets you could throw away, once again defeating the purpose.

I like tough death penalties for PvE (like EQ used to have).  It keeps you on your toes in risky situations and makes PvE a little more fun. But in PvP, I like lower penalties because you want to encourage PvP, not discourage it.

If you can in no way cheat and no item shop buying you to godmode im all for it np.

Would give for sure a new dimension to the game knowing your character can be gone around next corner.

A very long grind would use no purpose even when your extremly good player and last long eventually you die at some point and when you grind alot most will then prolly quit playing.

If the right balance is found i think it could be posible. I prefer a Darkfall like game but with less grind.

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Originally posted by Mmorpgerius
So people only willing to pay for a guaranteed successs in a game in a set time span. How boring. More risk = more excitement.Problem usually isn't the permadeath itself, but the "criminal flagging"/lack of it, glitches and exploits in PD utilizing games allowing excessive griefing. With the right support mechanics permadeath can be done right. 

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Thats my main concern also the exploits. Permadeath only works when servers is 100% RED and no safezones or it wont work i hate SAFEZONES where cowards hide.

For me it would be exciting if we get a real harsh pvp game with groups of clans fighting to survive the onslaught.

Bring it on PERMADEATH with constant survivng also you always have to get a new name when making new character so when i name stays long ingame you know he surving a longtime.

Make a list with howlong players survive with character at least earn there eternal FAME.

Actually, I believe permadeath could easily lead to "cheap deaths." If my character could get ganked and perma-die, why would I grow attached to it. 

Death in computer games started as a way to ensure the player would have to put another quarter into the machine and would have a lesser chance to see the end of a level than the player previously had.

With computer games becoming popular on personal systems, games that allowed saving player progress became the norm for those games that had a story the player progressed through.

In MMO's the concept of perma-death is loathed mostly because if a player is paying $15 a month for a subscription based MMO, reseting the players' progres for any reason what-so-ever can be the kiss of the death for that MMO as far as that particular player is concerned.

The more story-based the MMO is and the more Lore and Background details the developer puts into the game, the bigger the chance perma-death has to become the kiss-of-death.

Perma-death in a PvE game , like the original EQ for example, may add some spice to the game, as long as there was an assurance that dying because of disconnectiopn from the world did not count. I would likely enjoy it!!

However, perma-death in a PvP game would be great pain, due to the fact that you can get ganked so often in situations that are just not your fault ( I hate PvP anyway mostly). In a game like that canstantly re-rolling because of participation in the massive senseless battles is just not worth playing!!

Originally posted by spinner_vis

solution:

don't make progression about character.

make progression about soul.

create account.

create soul. pick some abilities.

create character. choose from available abilities.

play character. soul gains new abilties.

character dies. permanently. soul remains.

make new character...

Not gonna lie, I like this idea, a lot. Sounds well thought out and has a lot of fun concepts behind it.

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Originally posted by SBFord
Would you play on an MMO with permadeath?

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**edit**

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Originally posted by Talemire

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Originally posted by spinner_vis
solution:

don't make progression about character.

make progression about soul.

create account.

create soul. pick some abilities.

create character. choose from available abilities.

play character. soul gains new abilties.

character dies. permanently. soul remains.

make new character...

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Not gonna lie, I like this idea, a lot. Sounds well thought out and has a lot of fun concepts behind it.

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For the most part your character dying in a video game has little consequence. In single player games, for example, it's basically a redo from last checkpoint except now you  have gleened into the future of your character and thus can avoid dying (hopefully) again. Which breaks the immersion, the sense of realism and discovery. I hate games that force you to die your way through sections until you finally figure out what you need to do to survive an encounter because in the end you kinda cheated by knowing something your character in the story doesn't know. I'd like to think if I played intelligently and not haphazardly I could get through new encounters without dieing as my character would. Thinking, adapting, strategizing. Of course not always possible but I think it's a goal worth attempting.

Multiplayer...Well...I wished that there was a multiplayer game that focused more on the storyline and creative gameplay as oppose to keeping players glued to the game by having them constantly building/rebuilding what they have now or have lost through PVE or PVP, or merely catering to killboards and chest thumping. I wouldn't mind rerolling a new character after my previous one died if the gameplay was an unfolding adventure, a story I wanted to be a part of whether I was a simple tradesman or a ruler of a kingdom, penniless or a billionaire. Mind you a character's life has to have value or else players will just use them as cannon fodder to achieve some nefarious goal. But the value should be based upon playing in this great virtual world not having a X level character with X amount of stuff/loot. I'm all for permadeath but it has to be implemented just right so that players value their characters but not so much that they never take risks.

Depends on a game. Most MMOs revolve around your character's development. In those games, perma death doesn't really make sense.

However, I'm all supportive for death penalties, be it losing some experience, stats or loot. Something to make you go "oh fuck" when you die, but not causing you to uninstall the game in a sheer volley or nerdrage.

Perma death doesnt work in mmorpgs and almost all of them dont use it.  There's a reason for that. 

Games in general, and Im talking in general, went beyond permadeath a long time ago.  Specifically RPGS.  RPGs are not a perma death type game.  It doesnt work well there.  Now a platformer or such is different but even those type of games have shied away from that concept. 

Because its not a good concept.  I had a Nintendo as a little kid.  Around 1986 or so.  And it was expected. 

Today games are far more complex and the time spent developing characters doesnt lend itself to this.  If perma death were in any RPG, no one would get past level 20 or so.  Or in order to reach end game, every challenge would have to be avoided because of the great risk and developers dont want players having to avoid the more challenging parts of a game. 

Perma death is a pipe dream.  And a dream that would ruin most RPGS.  Its not a valid concept.  The industry understands this very well.  We should be able to as well.  Its not rocket science. 

I do not think you could possibly consider calling a game RPG without having an enforced form of permadeath in it. I think all warm-blooded game developers of popular MMOs feel deep down in their hearts that this would be the way to go. The game world would be much more persistent and exciting should such a mehanic be enforced on players.

Then of course there are these 2 little factors, namely i) the chores of our contemporary ITC infrastructure and ii) the need for an MMO to be successful financialy (i.e. caving to the needs/whines of carebears that simply cannot handle all the excitement), that render the implementation of permadeath impossible at the present time.

Ironaically enough, since you mentioned EVE OP, permadeath would be a solution to all of its pressing problems: no more blobs, no more lagfest, no more alliance monopoly, no more 'Ooh, i can't catch up with 7-years old chars!' - BAM! you kill them, no more T2 BPO injustice and so forth.

Originally posted by stokker

I do not think you could possibly consider calling a game RPG without having an enforced form of permadeath in it. I think all warm-blooded game developers of popular MMOs feel deep down in their hearts that this would be the way to go. The game world would be much more persistent and exciting should such a mehanic be enforced on players.

Then of course there are these 2 little factors, namely i) the chores of our contemporary ITC infrastructure and ii) the need for an MMO to be successful financialy (i.e. caving to the needs/whines of carebears that simply cannot handle all the excitement), that render the implementation of permadeath impossible at the present time.

Ironaically enough, since you mentioned EVE OP, permadeath would be a solution to all of its pressing problems: no more blobs, no more lagfest, no more alliance monopoly, no more 'Ooh, i can't catch up with 7-years old chars!' - BAM! you kill them, no more T2 BPO injustice and so forth.

Yeah a perfect recepie of how to lose players in record time and kill all the hardwork they did on EVE for many years within a few days.