MDD, upper CR, lower CR.

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

MDD, upper CR, lower CR.

CR is really one big dungeon (much like DM from WoW) and MDD counts as a new dungeon?  Really?

new bosses with new mechanics on trash and original bosses.

upper and lower CR are two different instances.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

MDD, upper CR, lower CR.

CR is really one big dungeon (much like DM from WoW) and MDD counts as a new dungeon?  Really?

Last time a 5man had 11 bosses in the mmorpg genre? It is easily the best designed 5man I have seen ohhhh since Vanilla?

CR is pretty nice. i was actually pretty impressed. i ran both upper and lower for the first time the other day due to these new xp/mark rewards and it was pretty well designed. i like runnin T2s again.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

MDD, upper CR, lower CR.

CR is really one big dungeon (much like DM from WoW) and MDD counts as a new dungeon?  Really?

Last time a 5man had 11 bosses in the mmorpg genre? It is easily the best designed 5man I have seen ohhhh since Vanilla?

Smaller, but I really liked Magister's Terrace.  Estate of Unrest in EQ2 is another good one (thats fairly large itself).

But its certainly better than anything in WoWs last two expansions, easily.  And larger by a good margin.  I dont have anything bad to say about EI or CR.

Originally posted by teakbois

Smaller, but I really liked Magister's Terrace.  Estate of Unrest in EQ2 is another good one (thats fairly large itself).

But its certainly better than anything in WoWs last two expansions, easily.  And larger by a good margin.  I dont have anything bad to say about EI or CR.

More devs need to look at EQ2 honestly. Trion obviously did. I can name a few qq issues people have with TOR that could be solved overnight if Bioware had looked at EQ2 more over WoW.

Originally posted by Darquegryn

I have been a rift cleric from launch...I am currently not playing any MMO at all...

My last guild was 9/11 Hammerknell... got to say, that the soul system is a lie.  I have all these oportunities in my souls to tank. heal or dps...bah!  I can heal, That's about it, and most mages can do it better. Cleric tanks go squish very easily, and even with the recent buff cleric dps is crap.

Admitedly I wanted to heal when I rolled my cleric up... but my guild didn't need more heals.  I got cubbyholed into one of the standared "icar" builds"

Other peeps I know in other classes complain of similar issues... having to spec flavor of the month to perform.  If you want to give me variety, make it true variety, not the illusionary soul system.

 

The issues you are having with souls/builds is not a Rifts fault, but the people you play with.  Rift is not pigeon holing you into one build or the other, your guildies are.  That's your fault for letting them do it to you. 

Rift's souls system and it's flexibility is one of the freshest ideas to come as of late to MMO's.

As for your claim Mages can heal better than Clerics...bollocks!

I have played a Cleric since the beginning of closed beta.  If a mage outheals you, you're doing something wrong, sorry.

In regards to the OP...whatever.  Your game is doing so well you have nothing better to do than spam the forum of a game you think is dying?  Lame...

To the OP,

Now that 2 million + people have tried TOR and found out just how small the game really is as a MMORPG, I'd wager most people that left Rifts are back now....

To the guy above me, I played with some really horrible clerics in Rifts.. Clerics who had no idea how to properly set up their class to heal.. I remember doing Fae dungeon and we had two clerics in group.. I was the tank, "Pally" so I even had a little healing.. We couldn't get past the first boss because both healers just weren't specced to,,,, heal.. They made themselves dps clerics..

So, just because you play a cleric doesn't mean your a good healer in groups. :P If your specced for soloing, then u might as well not even LFG as a healer... I'm sure most of you hea;ers out there know what i'm talking about..

Originally posted by oakthornn

To the OP,

Now that 2 million + people have tried TOR and found out just how small the game really is as a MMORPG, I'd wager most people that left Rifts are back now....

 

I agree

Ironically , Rift will only profit from SWTOR release

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I agree

Ironically , Rift will only profit from SWTOR release

This has been said over and over and over. TOR is here and Rift is                                                       over here when it comes to game philosophies.

How people who went from Rift to TOR expected soul swapping or some of the dynamic zone events is JUST BEYOND ME. The amount of misery created on some of the WoW or TOR forums because of what Rift has is shocking.

"""

Bashiok from WoW said this recently:

Infinite content.

It's easy to design a better system than dailies, pump out infinite amounts of content, it's just not feasible to pull off. Some people want to spend more time in the game than others, maybe even every day, and we want to make sure they have something to do. While we'd love for that to be fresh and unique content every time, it's simply not feasible. Thus, dailies. Give people something to do each time they log in (if they choose to do so every day).

Not to toot the Mists of Pandaria horn too hard, but I think our general zone design, daily, and scenario approach is pretty solid. Part of what makes dailies a bit tedious, aside from being tedious, is the rewards are desired but may not always quite fit the time investment. I see quite a bit of that being solved and making sure if you're logging in to do some dailies or scenarios, you feel like you made a good chunk of progress toward advancing your character.

"""

Originally posted by oakthornn

To the OP,

Now that 2 million + people have tried TOR and found out just how small the game really is as a MMORPG, I'd wager most people that left Rifts are back now....

 

 

Do people really believe this is the case?  Most people that left Rift(s) that didnt like swtor are probablly elsewhere (or nowhere).  Sure, some will come back.  but most?  Thats wishful thinking.

Originally posted by Puremallace

This has been said over and over and over. TOR is here and Rift is                                                       over here when it comes to game philosophies.

 

How people who went from Rift to TOR expected soul swapping or some of the dynamic zone events is JUST BEYOND ME. 

And a lot of people will like SWTOR for how the philosphies are different.  There is so much more personality in SWTOR than Rift, and more reason to get attached to your character.  A lot of people that love Rift don't care about this stuff.

Just as a lot of people don't give a rat's ass about soul swapping.  There are many who would rather strategically use their abilities to react to the situation at hand than change what their abilities are to the situation at hand.  Both are valid game designs and one probably isnt inherently better than the other.

And a *LOT* of people are long since bored of Rift's 'dynamic' events.  I was even starting to get bored of invasions the last time I played, and the world event was awful (fae yule)

Both games do different things well, and not everyone values these things the same.  I thnk sometimes people that love Rift struggle to see how someone could like other games over their game.

Originally posted by teakbois2

Do people really believe this is the case?  Most people that left Rift(s) that didnt like swtor are probablly elsewhere (or nowhere).  Sure, some will come back.  but most?  Thats wishful thinking.

Rift is basically in a holding pattern right now. I doubt very many people deny Trion is a great dev who puts their sub money to work. A lot of people are holding for GW2 right now.

This is the same as TOR and I said it before. How do you compete with hype? The servers are stable and though it looked bad a day after TOR launched (trust me it looked terrible) I can tell it has picked up.

People are realizing what Rift had compared to TOR on launch and Trion is gaining respect. Blizzard became big for a reason because they survived AOC, WAR, AION. All these big name they came out looking better.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by teakbois2

Do people really believe this is the case?  Most people that left Rift(s) that didnt like swtor are probablly elsewhere (or nowhere).  Sure, some will come back.  but most?  Thats wishful thinking.

Rift is basically in a holding pattern right now. I doubt very many people deny Trion is a great dev who puts their sub money to work. A lot of people are holding for GW2 right now.

 

This is the same as TOR and I said it before. How do you compete with hype? The servers are stable and though it looked bad a day after TOR launched (trust me it looked terrible) I can tell it has picked up.

 

People are realizing what Rift had compared to TOR on launch and Trion is gaining respect. Blizzard became big for a reason because they survived AOC, WAR, AION. All these big name they came out looking better.

what time were you making the comparisons, I forget if it was 9 east or 10 east.  this is actually pretty bad right now http://riftideas.com/shardwatch/ and its not the holidays anymore.

You are right, people respect Trion greatly, and rightfully so.  That isnt going to force people to like Rift though.  Rift has its niche crowd, and will for a long time but I see nothing to indicate its on the verge of growth and regaining the amount of subs it had in may, or even november.

People may wish SWTOR had things in at launch that Rift did (Its not like this was Hartsman first trip to the rodeo though), but that doesnt stop the fact that a lot (probably even most) find SWTOR more fun, at least for now, than Rift.  And Bioware has shown nothing to make you worry that they wont improve their game.  Exploits are fixed overnight, and the major issues are acknowledged with fixes on the way.  They at least get a month or two to make good on their promises, they havent broken any yet.

edit: I just saw the 1.1 notes (posted by you even) which confirms what I just typed, that Bioware so far has shown promise. Actons speak louder than words and it looks like we are seeing actions.

Originally posted by teakbois2

  They at least get a month or two to make good on their promises, they havent broken any yet.

TOR does have some flaws in that perfection and WoW fans are making them seem worse and game breaking. I mean they are still sitting on a themepark with end game based on raiding.

While leveling the worlds are dead. They went for the big approach and dead world and it will come back to haunt them.

Instancing is still pretty bad where you are shown a number of people, but see nowhere near that many people

Will the dev pace slow down for content?

Spec swapping how long until that happens?

TOR surely does not share Rifts big weakness of interesting leveling content, so they can definitely get a pass if they take 3 months for content updates. I mean what happens when Trion drops 1.7 pretty soon...then drops 1.8 right after in March probably.

Dragon Soul  4.3 is already getting old and Trion has already made a damn good impression with Hammerknell. If Infernal Dawn is just badass that could mean more subs. We still do not know what else Trion has up their sleeve. For all I know honestly tey can bust out housing and RVR in a patch.

If I got upset over servers reading low, then I would be begging for free to play because the population would sky rocket. Right now I have a dev where Igive them money for a sub and I get unbelievable content. GW2 touts a dragon fight as genre changing and I just killed one on Ember Isle in a fire invasion.

When someone ask me what a mmo is I can point at this screen shot and say that. That many people going after the same objective

 

With both Rift and SWTOR, they are so copy cat of WoW that they are going to tend to draw a very specific type of gamer...

One that switches games more frequenty.  The people who like to stick with one MMO will stick with WoW, the ones who like to jump around more are going to go to RIFT, then SWTOR, then whatever is next.  That is why RIFT and SWTOR are not going to get the player retention that unique/interesting MMOs can.

And you see this in SWTOR's gameplay specifically...  It seems that BW KNOWS and PLANS for low retention of its player base.  Otherwise why would they incorporate so many features that decrease re-playabillity (IE, focus on 'story').

Originally posted by wormywyrm

One that switches games more frequenty.  The people who like to stick with one MMO will stick with WoW, the ones who like to jump around more are going to go to RIFT, then SWTOR, then whatever is next.  That is why RIFT and SWTOR are not going to get the player retention that unique/interesting MMOs can.

EVE has 300kish players? CCP goes down as one of the respected devs out there and the playerbase is happy. The idea is not kill WoW Blizzard is doing that over time. The idea in my view is to introduce changes slowly over time.

Things like free transfers, multiple specs/roles, less cash shop and more bank for your subscription buck, really fast content updates with less excuses, stuff like AOE looting, more casual access to raid content without destroying the raiding experience, more open world content and grouping with friends.

WoW has DIRECTLYYYYYYYYYYYY benefited from 2011 games released. Lower prices, faster bug fixes, promises of faster content, philosophy changes. Blizzard is being forced to compete to keep subs now and everyone is winning.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by teakbois2

  They at least get a month or two to make good on their promises, they havent broken any yet.

TOR does have some flaws in that perfection and WoW fans are making them seem worse and game breaking. I mean they are still sitting on a themepark with end game based on raiding.

 

While leveling the worlds are dead. They went for the big approach and dead world and it will come back to haunt them.

Instancing is still pretty bad where you are shown a number of people, but see nowhere near that many people

Will the dev pace slow down for content?

Spec swapping how long until that happens?

 

TOR surely does not share Rifts big weakness of interesting leveling content, so they can definitely get a pass if they take 3 months for content updates. I mean what happens when Trion drops 1.7 pretty soon...then drops 1.8 right after in March probably.

 

Dragon Soul  4.3 is already getting old and Trion has already made a damn good impression with Hammerknell. If Infernal Dawn is just badass that could mean more subs. We still do not know what else Trion has up their sleeve. For all I know honestly tey can bust out housing and RVR in a patch.

 

 

I think a dual spec wil be implemented fairly early on in the games lifespan, it could be something that Bioware wanted to monitor.

Ive *never* had issues with not seeing other people in a zone, except the one night I was in Nar Shadaa (2) for 4 or 5 hours and by 4 am there were only 6 people left i it.  I could have swapped to nar shadaa 1 of course, but I choose not to.

Trion's big hope for broader appeal for Rift is the expansion. They have been awfully quiet about stuff lately, perhaps an expansion announcement is coming soon?

Originally posted by wormywyrm

 Otherwise why would they incorporate so many features that decrease re-playabillity (IE, focus on 'story').

The story increases replayability for most.  Its also a lot deeper than it looks on the surface.  At first i thought choices didnt matter, but they do matter.  Not in earth shattering ways, but it is interesting how some decisions made long ago come into play later on.