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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » I Have To Question Some MMORPG Staffers Objectivity

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53 posts found
  RobbHood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/06
Posts: 59

 
OP  1/03/12 9:05:57 PM#1

Some of the articles on SWTOR seem a bit naive. "Slain by the Sith" and "The Droid I was looking for" to name two. And let's not forget Pocke'ts video on the number one reason she is playing SW.......are you ready?.........The questing has been elevated to a new level by Bioware.  Really?

 

Kill x of this and deliver this to that seems to have been around since the original EQ. And I question whether its really Star Wars honestly.

 

It may be based on Star Wars, but Star Wars was Luke and company.  A light saber doth not a Star Wars make.

 

The game is what it is and all the hype and spin will never change the fact that it is a re-skinned (barely) KOTOR that allows up to 200 players to play a single player game in a single instance along side each other, occsionally banding together to run a flashpoint or operation.

 

For any progression minded players, it's very weak.  For RP'ers, it's terrible.  For explorer's it's non-exisitent.  For PvPers it's, again, terrible.  And for solo players, it's a good story once, maybe twice through.

 

You really don't "play" SWTOR, it "plays you" and you are basically just along fot the ride. 

 

Where are the critical thinkers amoung the writers?  Graphically average, except mayby the fire throught the grate in Hutt Ball, which looks worse then average,  like the original Duke Nukem graphically. Questing is as lineiar as all the rest, and maybe wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't hyped as the next gen of questing.  The choices you make have no impact, nothing changes but a few dark/light points.

 

Character customization?  poor.  With no housing or player cities, keeps, or the like, a player has to fall in love with their avitar. Gear them up, dress them up, show off the spoils of war.   The standard players are use to are missing, like a wardrobe option. Even Blizz  folded in this department. The companions are all the same.  The game should have been called SW: The Clone Wars.

 

So now, with so many players already at 50, they are asking what do we do now?   In the World of Warcraft Southpark episode when the gang power leveled up to kill the uber ganker, and did, they asked "Now what do we do?"  The answer..."Now we play the game."

 

But ya gotta have some kind of game to play at that point, and SWTOR is lacking.  I guess we can wait for "Time to take a second look at SWTOR".

 

Sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em.

  Uronksur

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/09
Posts: 306

1/03/12 9:09:06 PM#2
Originally posted by RobbHood

Some of the articles on SWTOR seem a bit naive. "Slain by the Sith" and "The Droid I was looking for" to name two. And let's not forget Pocke'ts video on the number one reason she is playing SW.......are you ready?.........The questing has been elevated to a new level by Bioware.  Really?

 

Kill x of this and deliver this to that seems to have been around since the original EQ. And I question whether its really Star Wars honestly.

 

It may be based on Star Wars, but Star Wars was Luke and company.  A light saber doth not a Star Wars make.

 

The game is what it is and all the hype and spin will never change the fact that it is a re-skinned (barely) KOTOR that allows up to 200 players to play a single player game in a single instance along side each other, occsionally banding together to run a flashpoint or operation.

 

For any progression minded players, it's very weak.  For RP'ers, it's terrible.  For explorer's it's non-exisitent.  For PvPers it's, again, terrible.  And for solo players, it's a good story once, maybe twice through.

 

You really don't "play" SWTOR, it "plays you" and you are basically just along fot the ride. 

 

Where are the critical thinkers amoung the writers?  Graphically average, except mayby the fire throught the grate in Hutt Ball, which looks worse then average,  like the original Duke Nukem graphically. Questing is as lineiar as all the rest, and maybe wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't hyped as the next gen of questing.  The choices you make have no impact, nothing changes but a few dark/light points.

 

Character customization?  poor.  With no housing or player cities, keeps, or the like, a player has to fall in love with their avitar. Gear them up, dress them up, show off the spoils of war.   The standard players are use to are missing, like a wardrobe option. Even Blizz  folded in this department. The companions are all the same.  The game should have been called SW: The Clone Wars.

 

So now, with so many players already at 50, they are asking what do we do now?   In the World of Warcraft Southpark episode when the gang power leveled up to kill the uber ganker, and did, they asked "Now what do we do?"  The answer..."Now we play the game."

 

But ya gotta have some kind of game to play at that point, and SWTOR is lacking.  I guess we can wait for "Time to take a second look at SWTOR".

 

Sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em.


Yes, clearly, if the staff disagrees with you in a review, they must be not objective and incapable of critical thinking.

  RobbHood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/06
Posts: 59

 
OP  1/03/12 9:13:02 PM#3

Not one staffer found anything wrong with this game?

 

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

1/03/12 9:13:37 PM#4
Originally posted by RobbHood

Some of the articles on SWTOR seem a bit naive. "Slain by the Sith" and "The Droid I was looking for" to name two. And let's not forget Pocke'ts video on the number one reason she is playing SW.......are you ready?.........The questing has been elevated to a new level by Bioware.  Really?

 

Kill x of this and deliver this to that seems to have been around since the original EQ. And I question whether its really Star Wars honestly.

 

It may be based on Star Wars, but Star Wars was Luke and company.  A light saber doth not a Star Wars make.

 

The game is what it is and all the hype and spin will never change the fact that it is a re-skinned (barely) KOTOR that allows up to 200 players to play a single player game in a single instance along side each other, occsionally banding together to run a flashpoint or operation.

 

For any progression minded players, it's very weak.  For RP'ers, it's terrible.  For explorer's it's non-exisitent.  For PvPers it's, again, terrible.  And for solo players, it's a good story once, maybe twice through.

 

You really don't "play" SWTOR, it "plays you" and you are basically just along fot the ride. 

 

Where are the critical thinkers amoung the writers?  Graphically average, except mayby the fire throught the grate in Hutt Ball, which looks worse then average,  like the original Duke Nukem graphically. Questing is as lineiar as all the rest, and maybe wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't hyped as the next gen of questing.  The choices you make have no impact, nothing changes but a few dark/light points.

 

Character customization?  poor.  With no housing or player cities, keeps, or the like, a player has to fall in love with their avitar. Gear them up, dress them up, show off the spoils of war.   The standard players are use to are missing, like a wardrobe option. Even Blizz  folded in this department. The companions are all the same.  The game should have been called SW: The Clone Wars.

 

So now, with so many players already at 50, they are asking what do we do now?   In the World of Warcraft Southpark episode when the gang power leveled up to kill the uber ganker, and did, they asked "Now what do we do?"  The answer..."Now we play the game."

 

But ya gotta have some kind of game to play at that point, and SWTOR is lacking.  I guess we can wait for "Time to take a second look at SWTOR".

 

Sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em.

You'll be flamed for this, even though you speak truth.  The reality is that the second there was an mmo made by Bioware in the Star Wars universe - it was guaranteed to have a rabid fan base no matter how bad the game was itself.  Sure, as time goes on there are more people posting about how the novelty of the story is wearing off and they aren't that happy, but Bioware and Star Wars is both big enough to have a HUGE helping of fanbois and lap dogs. 

Of course not everyone falls into that category, there are other reasons also.  The hype and the fact that MANY people are just bored and willing to jump on anything new adds to it.  Also, people who are totally cool with an extreme theme park model seem ok with it, even though I strongly feel it is lower quality than most of the theme parks released over the last 5 years. 

I also STRONGLY feel that if this game was not in a star wars universe and was not made by Bioware - people would say "hey that story thing is kind of cool", but absolutely SHRED the game otherwise.

  User Deleted
1/03/12 9:13:56 PM#5


Originally posted by RobbHood
Not one staffer found anything wrong with this game?
 

Read the round table thread.

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/03/12 9:15:46 PM#6

You set your expectations too high if you want the staff to be completely objective and logical. See them more like regular forum posters but with a higher requirement on the entertainment value and length of their posts.

  User Deleted
1/03/12 9:16:19 PM#7
Originally posted by Uronksur
Originally posted by RobbHood

Some of the articles on SWTOR seem a bit naive. "Slain by the Sith" and "The Droid I was looking for" to name two. And let's not forget Pocke'ts video on the number one reason she is playing SW.......are you ready?.........The questing has been elevated to a new level by Bioware.  Really?

 

Kill x of this and deliver this to that seems to have been around since the original EQ. And I question whether its really Star Wars honestly.

 

It may be based on Star Wars, but Star Wars was Luke and company.  A light saber doth not a Star Wars make.

 

The game is what it is and all the hype and spin will never change the fact that it is a re-skinned (barely) KOTOR that allows up to 200 players to play a single player game in a single instance along side each other, occsionally banding together to run a flashpoint or operation.

 

For any progression minded players, it's very weak.  For RP'ers, it's terrible.  For explorer's it's non-exisitent.  For PvPers it's, again, terrible.  And for solo players, it's a good story once, maybe twice through.

 

You really don't "play" SWTOR, it "plays you" and you are basically just along fot the ride. 

 

Where are the critical thinkers amoung the writers?  Graphically average, except mayby the fire throught the grate in Hutt Ball, which looks worse then average,  like the original Duke Nukem graphically. Questing is as lineiar as all the rest, and maybe wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't hyped as the next gen of questing.  The choices you make have no impact, nothing changes but a few dark/light points.

 

Character customization?  poor.  With no housing or player cities, keeps, or the like, a player has to fall in love with their avitar. Gear them up, dress them up, show off the spoils of war.   The standard players are use to are missing, like a wardrobe option. Even Blizz  folded in this department. The companions are all the same.  The game should have been called SW: The Clone Wars.

 

So now, with so many players already at 50, they are asking what do we do now?   In the World of Warcraft Southpark episode when the gang power leveled up to kill the uber ganker, and did, they asked "Now what do we do?"  The answer..."Now we play the game."

 

But ya gotta have some kind of game to play at that point, and SWTOR is lacking.  I guess we can wait for "Time to take a second look at SWTOR".

 

Sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em.


Yes, clearly, if the staff disagrees with you in a review, they must be not objective and incapable of critical thinking.

 

Those two articles are not really good examples of what the OP is trying to say regardless.

 

The droid I was looking for was not a review as was clearly stated.   It was an opinion piece and someones opinion is 100% correct for them no matter what someone else thinks.   I'm not even sure why that article was mentioned in the OP.

 

As to the slain by the sith article... I deleted a post I had in there because like the thread starter I didn't read it either.   Which it seems obvious to me that they didn't read it... because the article had nothing to do with what the title implied.   It was another opinion piece and the title was misleading if you didn't read the article.

 

Now if someone really did claim that TOR elevated questing to a new level... then I would agree with the statement in the OP about that paticular item.   There is nothing new about questing in TOR let alone elevated to another level.

 

What they used to talk about in those Warhammer Online video's about questing (things that never actually happened) would have been a new level.   TOR is just.. a continuation of what we've seen before.   That's not good or bad... its simply the same.

  Leethe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/09
Posts: 876

1/03/12 9:19:35 PM#8
Originally posted by RobbHood

Some of the articles on SWTOR seem a bit naive. "Slain by the Sith" and "The Droid I was looking for" to name two. And let's not forget Pocke'ts video on the number one reason she is playing SW.......are you ready?.........The questing has been elevated to a new level by Bioware.  Really?

 


 

Sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em.

Final words from slain by the sith:

The servers could shut down tomorrow and the sun could fade forever on the World of Warcraft yet the embers of its existence would still be felt throughout the industry and culture.  That to me proves that WoW isn’t going to really die off for a long, long time.

Although I wouldn’t mind some sort of lightsaber though, if I’m being brutally honest.

And a few first word from The droid I was looking for:

Yep, it’s another Star Wars: The Old Republic column; you’ve been warned. I’ll also state the obvious before I get lambasted for not producing a good review: this is not a review. It is, at best, a short compendium of my initial impressions about the game, and it’s certainly not intended to tell you much about it. There are plenty of other column inches out there with reviews, including an official one coming right here next week. Besides – you shouldn’t be lambasting, you should be playing SW:TOR.

In one of your examples the writer is pretty even handed about dismissing most of the tor hype while admitting the game will likely be big. Your second example clearly states that it's not a review. What was your point exactly?

There is NO miracle patch.

95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5178

1/03/12 9:20:54 PM#9

Opinion pieces aren't objective. It kind of goes with the territory.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Uronksur

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/09
Posts: 306

1/03/12 9:22:38 PM#10
Originally posted by RobbHood

Not one staffer found anything wrong with this game?

 

You didn't even read the staff review before posting this thread, did you?
 

answer: yes, they did.

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/03/12 9:23:41 PM#11
Originally posted by zymurgeist

Opinion pieces aren't objective. It kind of goes with the territory.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean someone cannot criticize the choice of writing an opinion piece over a far more objective article. Nonetheless, as I mentioned above, I think he has too high expectations :&.

  Cthulhu23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1027

1/03/12 9:24:42 PM#12
Originally posted by RobbHood

Not one staffer found anything wrong with this game?

 

Did you actually read any of the reviews?  The listed things they didn't like as well as things they did like.  Is it that hard to believe that maybe...just maybe, they actually liked the fucking game?  Considering well over a million people play it, I'd say it's probably a pretty good game for a lot of people.

Also...Pokket isn't part of the mmorpg staff.  

 

  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5178

1/03/12 9:32:09 PM#13
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by zymurgeist

Opinion pieces aren't objective. It kind of goes with the territory.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean someone cannot critisize the choice of writing an opinion piece over a far more objective article. Nonetheless, as I mentioned above, I think he has too high expectations :&.

 I often wonder what the hell people are talking about when the use the word MMO and objective in the same sentence. There is no objective measure of how enjoyable an MMO is. No way to strap people into a chair and measure how happy they are playing it. The entire concept boggles the mind. I can tell you how many miles per gallon a honda cvcc gets. I can't tell you how many smiles an hour you'll get playing a game. You might think it's orgasmic I might rate it as nails on a chalkboard. Objective Review. There's an oxymoron for you.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/03/12 9:36:54 PM#14
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by zymurgeist

Opinion pieces aren't objective. It kind of goes with the territory.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean someone cannot critisize the choice of writing an opinion piece over a far more objective article. Nonetheless, as I mentioned above, I think he has too high expectations :&.

 I often wonder what the hell people are talking about when the use the word MMO and objective in the same sentence. There is no objective measure of how enjoyable an MMO is. No way to strap people into a chair and measure how happy they are playing it. The entire concept boggles the mind. I can tell you how many miles per gallon a honda cvcc gets. I can't tell you how many smiles an hour you'll get playing a game. You might think it's orgasmic I might rate it as nails on a chalkboard. Objective Review. There's an oxymoron for you.

 

You don't have to bring up how much you enjoyed the game until the final part of the article. Rest can definitely be objective. In other words: writing that you enjoyed something is a conclusion, but the reason for why you enjoyed it can very well be presented in an objective manner.

  Cthulhu23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1027

1/03/12 9:39:25 PM#15

Btw, this thread is kind of ironic since the staffer that gave TOR the lowest grade (6/10) is a die-hard Darkfall player and was over on the Darkfall forums bragging about the fact that he gave it a low grade.  

But I'm sure he's not the guy the OP had in mind when questioning objectivity, is he?

  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5178

1/03/12 9:47:44 PM#16
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by zymurgeist

Opinion pieces aren't objective. It kind of goes with the territory.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean someone cannot critisize the choice of writing an opinion piece over a far more objective article. Nonetheless, as I mentioned above, I think he has too high expectations :&.

 I often wonder what the hell people are talking about when the use the word MMO and objective in the same sentence. There is no objective measure of how enjoyable an MMO is. No way to strap people into a chair and measure how happy they are playing it. The entire concept boggles the mind. I can tell you how many miles per gallon a honda cvcc gets. I can't tell you how many smiles an hour you'll get playing a game. You might think it's orgasmic I might rate it as nails on a chalkboard. Objective Review. There's an oxymoron for you.

 

You don't have to bring up how much you enjoyed the game until the final part of the article. Rest can definitely be objective. In other words: writing that you enjoyed something is a conclusion, but the reason for why you enjoyed it can very well be presented in an objective manner.

 You can list the features but as soon as you add a discriptor you're no longer being objective. No one is going to enjoy reading a four paragraph article if only the last sentence has any adjectives. The whole idea is objective reviews is specious.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Uronksur

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/09
Posts: 306

1/03/12 9:48:36 PM#17
Originally posted by zymurgeist. Objective Review. There's an oxymoron for you.\

Eh, I'm going to be the technical, nit-picky ass who points out that you can objectively review things like chemistry homework. You might say "grade" instead of "review" but "I will objectively review your chemistry homework" is a correct sentence.

  VIIKING

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/11
Posts: 44

1/03/12 9:54:49 PM#18

But Dude its Starwars cmon its awesome!!!!! 

  InFaVilla

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/10
Posts: 603

1/03/12 9:58:13 PM#19
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by InFaVilla
Originally posted by zymurgeist

Opinion pieces aren't objective. It kind of goes with the territory.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean someone cannot critisize the choice of writing an opinion piece over a far more objective article. Nonetheless, as I mentioned above, I think he has too high expectations :&.

 I often wonder what the hell people are talking about when the use the word MMO and objective in the same sentence. There is no objective measure of how enjoyable an MMO is. No way to strap people into a chair and measure how happy they are playing it. The entire concept boggles the mind. I can tell you how many miles per gallon a honda cvcc gets. I can't tell you how many smiles an hour you'll get playing a game. You might think it's orgasmic I might rate it as nails on a chalkboard. Objective Review. There's an oxymoron for you.

 

You don't have to bring up how much you enjoyed the game until the final part of the article. Rest can definitely be objective. In other words: writing that you enjoyed something is a conclusion, but the reason for why you enjoyed it can very well be presented in an objective manner.

 You can list the features but as soon as you add a discriptor you're no longer being objective. No one is going to enjoy reading a four paragraph article if only the last sentence has any adjectives. The whole idea is objective reviews is specious.

 

I enjoy reading my newspaper articles every morning even though they tend to be almost purely objective. Furthermore, adverbs and adjectives do not always need to be subjective; information about how a game compares to other games can be brought out without excessive opinions. 

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 1894

Posts deleted: 12589457

1/03/12 10:24:34 PM#20
Originally posted by Margulis

You'll be flamed for this, even though you speak truth.  The reality is that the second there was an mmo made by Bioware in the Star Wars universe - it was guaranteed to have a rabid fan base no matter how bad the game was itself.  Sure, as time goes on there are more people posting about how the novelty of the story is wearing off and they aren't that happy, but Bioware and Star Wars is both big enough to have a HUGE helping of fanbois and lap dogs. 

Of course not everyone falls into that category, there are other reasons also.  The hype and the fact that MANY people are just bored and willing to jump on anything new adds to it.  Also, people who are totally cool with an extreme theme park model seem ok with it, even though I strongly feel it is lower quality than most of the theme parks released over the last 5 years. 

I also STRONGLY feel that if this game was not in a star wars universe and was not made by Bioware - people would say "hey that story thing is kind of cool", but absolutely SHRED the game otherwise.

Or:

"The reality is that the second an MMO is advertised on this webpage - it was guaranteed to get nothing but hype, praise and high scores by the staff no matter how many issues the game has."

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