The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

Yeah, I am not sure (I doubt) you could get people to really understand how the system works. But in a normal MMO you level to cap, and either you quit, or you PVP (which you could still do because it wouldn't give you XP and make you "grow older") or you raid for gear untill you quit.

So in my opinion its a win win. It spreads out the age of the population, Those who want to get to high level and PVP could, those who want to stay at low level and PVP could, Those who want to level could...

And for those of us with a epeen, you could even set up a system almost like MW2's "presteige" where the more times you level all the way through you get some extra title or rank, Which wouldn't have any real value...but you could use it for bragging rights. 

Could even call it the generation system, "I am Dewm the 4th!" ......"sweet dude, you need a life"

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

ATITD recently started a new Telling and I went back to the game.  While I like the energy of starting everything again, I quickly realized that I simply did not feel like doing the same tests I did in teh last Telling.  They were fun when I was trying to 'solve the puzzle'  but now I know what I need to do and it is no longer that enjoyable.  I also really missed all those advanced skills I had in th later game and it is really tedious to do the same tasks with basic technology.

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

ATITD recently started a new Telling and I went back to the game.  While I like the energy of starting everything again, I quickly realized that I simply did not feel like doing the same tests I did in teh last Telling.  They were fun when I was trying to 'solve the puzzle'  but now I know what I need to do and it is no longer that enjoyable.  I also really missed all those advanced skills I had in th later game and it is really tedious to do the same tasks with basic technology.

I started on the first day of the 6th telling and I only quit because it was sucking up too much of my life. I agree however that I would never be okay with playing the same game over and over in each new telling. The whole problem people have in mmos is that you start repeating the same content over and over. And even if you keep the same gear you are still fighting the same content in the same area and going through the same leveling progression. It might work a few times but it won't keep players playing longer than going level to gear grind to title grind. I think that Dewm hasn't ever played a game like this and doesn't realize why it will never work.

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

ATITD recently started a new Telling and I went back to the game.  While I like the energy of starting everything again, I quickly realized that I simply did not feel like doing the same tests I did in teh last Telling.  They were fun when I was trying to 'solve the puzzle'  but now I know what I need to do and it is no longer that enjoyable.  I also really missed all those advanced skills I had in th later game and it is really tedious to do the same tasks with basic technology.

I started on the first day of the 6th telling and I only quit because it was sucking up too much of my life. I agree however that I would never be okay with playing the same game over and over in each new telling. The whole problem people have in mmos is that you start repeating the same content over and over. And even if you keep the same gear you are still fighting the same content in the same area and going through the same leveling progression. It might work a few times but it won't keep players playing longer than going level to gear grind to title grind. I think that Dewm hasn't ever played a game like this and doesn't realize why it will never work.

I am a massive altaholic and can find new challenges even after playing through the content 5-6 times.  Yet even for me there are points where I can't 'get blood from stone' and the game loses its appeal.  It's usually a sudden thing.  I am playing the game full bore and suddenly I no longer feel like playing it at all.  It's a really weird feelling. 

I really thought I could enjoy playing ATITD again from scratch yet I really could not muster the energy for it. 

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

ATITD recently started a new Telling and I went back to the game.  While I like the energy of starting everything again, I quickly realized that I simply did not feel like doing the same tests I did in teh last Telling.  They were fun when I was trying to 'solve the puzzle'  but now I know what I need to do and it is no longer that enjoyable.  I also really missed all those advanced skills I had in th later game and it is really tedious to do the same tasks with basic technology.

I started on the first day of the 6th telling and I only quit because it was sucking up too much of my life. I agree however that I would never be okay with playing the same game over and over in each new telling. The whole problem people have in mmos is that you start repeating the same content over and over. And even if you keep the same gear you are still fighting the same content in the same area and going through the same leveling progression. It might work a few times but it won't keep players playing longer than going level to gear grind to title grind. I think that Dewm hasn't ever played a game like this and doesn't realize why it will never work.

I am a massive altaholic and can find new challenges even after playing through the content 5-6 times.  Yet even for me there are points where I can't 'get blood from stone' and the game loses its appeal.  It's usually a sudden thing.  I am playing the game full bore and suddenly I no longer feel like playing it at all.  It's a really weird feelling. 

I really thought I could enjoy playing ATITD again from scratch yet I really could not muster the energy for it. 

Yeah, it is often really sudden like that.

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

ATITD recently started a new Telling and I went back to the game.  While I like the energy of starting everything again, I quickly realized that I simply did not feel like doing the same tests I did in teh last Telling.  They were fun when I was trying to 'solve the puzzle'  but now I know what I need to do and it is no longer that enjoyable.  I also really missed all those advanced skills I had in th later game and it is really tedious to do the same tasks with basic technology.

I started on the first day of the 6th telling and I only quit because it was sucking up too much of my life. I agree however that I would never be okay with playing the same game over and over in each new telling. The whole problem people have in mmos is that you start repeating the same content over and over. And even if you keep the same gear you are still fighting the same content in the same area and going through the same leveling progression. It might work a few times but it won't keep players playing longer than going level to gear grind to title grind. I think that Dewm hasn't ever played a game like this and doesn't realize why it will never work.

I am a massive altaholic and can find new challenges even after playing through the content 5-6 times.  Yet even for me there are points where I can't 'get blood from stone' and the game loses its appeal.  It's usually a sudden thing.  I am playing the game full bore and suddenly I no longer feel like playing it at all.  It's a really weird feelling. 

I really thought I could enjoy playing ATITD again from scratch yet I really could not muster the energy for it. 

Happens to me, as well. I usually have one or two high and 4-8 mid level characters when I hit that sudden wall of lack of interest.

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

ATITD recently started a new Telling and I went back to the game.  While I like the energy of starting everything again, I quickly realized that I simply did not feel like doing the same tests I did in teh last Telling.  They were fun when I was trying to 'solve the puzzle'  but now I know what I need to do and it is no longer that enjoyable.  I also really missed all those advanced skills I had in th later game and it is really tedious to do the same tasks with basic technology.

I started on the first day of the 6th telling and I only quit because it was sucking up too much of my life. I agree however that I would never be okay with playing the same game over and over in each new telling. The whole problem people have in mmos is that you start repeating the same content over and over. And even if you keep the same gear you are still fighting the same content in the same area and going through the same leveling progression. It might work a few times but it won't keep players playing longer than going level to gear grind to title grind. I think that Dewm hasn't ever played a game like this and doesn't realize why it will never work.

You are correct I never have played a game like that.. As my original post states.

But to me it sounds way better then grinding the same shotty dungions over and over and over. Like I said it probably would never work because most MMO players (you make a good example) can't wrap their minds around the fact that you level to cap in just a few days (most modern MMO's) then you hop on the tread mill untill you quit. 

And like I said before this game isn't something where you would hit cap in just a month or so. So get RIFT AION WOW all out of your head...it wouldn't be like that.

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

The question is whether people would be willing to lose all their leveling. I  am not sure you could get that passed the gaming community. Even keeping gear isn't huge balm to having to level all over again.

ATITD actually has a sort of legacy system but its mostly just titles, and mostly titles are just needed for the test of harmony, where you need to get one of each title to sign your book.

ATITD recently started a new Telling and I went back to the game.  While I like the energy of starting everything again, I quickly realized that I simply did not feel like doing the same tests I did in teh last Telling.  They were fun when I was trying to 'solve the puzzle'  but now I know what I need to do and it is no longer that enjoyable.  I also really missed all those advanced skills I had in th later game and it is really tedious to do the same tasks with basic technology.

I started on the first day of the 6th telling and I only quit because it was sucking up too much of my life. I agree however that I would never be okay with playing the same game over and over in each new telling. The whole problem people have in mmos is that you start repeating the same content over and over. And even if you keep the same gear you are still fighting the same content in the same area and going through the same leveling progression. It might work a few times but it won't keep players playing longer than going level to gear grind to title grind. I think that Dewm hasn't ever played a game like this and doesn't realize why it will never work.

You are correct I never have played a game like that.. As my original post states.

But to me it sounds way better then grinding the same shotty dungions over and over and over. Like I said it probably would never work because most MMO players (you make a good example) can't wrap their minds around the fact that you level to cap in just a few days (most modern MMO's) then you hop on the tread mill untill you quit. 

And like I said before this game isn't something where you would hit cap in just a month or so. So get RIFT AION WOW all out of your head...it wouldn't be like that.

Calling me most MMO players is pretty ignorant. I am fairly atypical and you would know that if you read most of my posts here. I am designing an MMORPG with no level cap and an original magic system and context for magic and totally unique pve content, at least in the mmorpg genre, and I have like 15 threads about it in pub alone. I have played a lot of games with resets, mostly not mmorpgs because only ATITD has that afaik. Most of these games are much more sanbox than any mmorpg is, excepting some like ogame and travian. But all of these games have win conditions. You are using individual level resets in a persistant world and even ATITD doesn't go that far.

Insofar as restarting in general goes, its just not going to work, especially in a themepark. Is there a gear cap? If so keeping your old gear fails to become relevant after the 2nd or 3rd play through when your gear starts capped. Your system is just another content reuser. How is that different from just rolling an alt? You have the same twinking of gear as in your system but you don't lose your original character. You have failed to make a case for the fundamental difference between your system and rolling an alt.

The reason that single player games can be replayed is because you didn't use all the content the first time. Or changing classes, but those are all things you can do with an alt without the negatives of your system.

I don't care if its the 1 day it takes to cap in guildwars, or the month in WoW or 5 years. And fyi, if you could make the level cap last 5 years without constant repitition of content, why would you even need this system?

Either way your system is identical to rolling an alt but with an added unnecessary punishment of losing your previous character.

Its not my that isn't thinking outside the box or looking at the big picture, its you.

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

1.       So I’ve had this idea for a while, as a way to get rid of the “endgame grind” scenario that we have right now, And that would be give characters “life spans” now these life spans would probably be based on XP rather then time, that way if you don’t log for a month or two you won’t be dead. Anyways so say the level cap is like 80, then once you reach that level cap you “die” now all of your gear and items would be left to your inheritance (Aka you new character that is now just starting at level 1) you keep all of your “stuff” from the previous character, so the next time you go to level it would be faster. But this would help a MMO in a couple of ways (at least the way I see it)

1.       It defeats the old “grind till cap, then grind for gear” aspect

2.       It would allow the Devs to spend more time in the future adding more content for low level and mid level areas.

3.       It would stop the population of the MMO from getting to level cap, and then low level area’s are abandoned.

         Anyways I’m sure there would be some stuff to hone out on it, but I like it. Another portion to this idea is the fact that     leveling would take quite awhile. All of the dev time that is normally spent on endgame could then be spread out throughout the game, so level 1-80 would take 8mo-1 year.

 

 So you're replacing "Endgame Grind" with "Earlygame Grind" ?

 

To start....why would a level 79 continue playing if they knew they had to start ALL OVER AGAIN when they hit 80?

 

Is the only benefit of progressing to level cap is that you can pass on your stuff?  Well....what happens with the set of gear you inherited when you earn it all over again near level cap?  You have 2 sets of Armor of Domination?

 

The way I see it...

1.  You're not aleviating any grind.  As a matter of fact, you're replacing the "grind" that occurs at endgame and making people level through the same zones & content that they previously went through.  Especially if you make leveling to level cap a long process. 

2.  Who in their right mind would give up the power of being level 79, knowing that at level 80 they have to spend another year doing the whole thing over again with no benefit other than getting to carry over some gear? 

3.  You would have a lot more imbalance in PvP because people will continually be anywhere between level 1-79 instead of plateauing off at level cap....where the playing field levels off a bit.

 

All for the sake of populating some newbie areas?

 

2.       A lot of people on this forum have said things in the way of, “they are tired of standard fantasy MMO’s” And “they are tired of standard classes” they are tired of “the way we level with XP”

I don’t know about you guys…but I am not tired of it, I am still waiting for a good game to come out with those features, I am an avid fan of the original FFXI, I loved the preset classes, the grind to level, the walking 20 minutes to get somewhere, the forced partying. Stuff like that. I’m just waiting for a good game to come out with those features in it. *cough*ArcheAge*cough* /crosses fingers.

But enough people complain on here about standard rock steady MMO features of yesteryear that we haven’t seen in a decent MMO for close to 7 years now.

 

I can agree with you in that we haven't seen a good game with some traditional hard knocks gameplay like group play....but IMO the focus of the game shouldn't be the mondain process of killing boars to watch an xp bar move.  It should be about the interactions between the players...and the things they are able to acomplish.

 

A player is most effective when they have all the tools of their class available to them...as such, level cap should be something gained with enough difficulty to make it worth while....but not so difficult that the game revolves around the leveling (or growing) process.

 

 

 

3.       World of Warcraft. This is just IMO…but wow started out as a really decent game, can’t speak for it as of recent because I haven’t played in 2 years… But a lot of people hate on WoW. But honestly I think they had a really good model, The only problem is that’s the only model we’ve seen for 8 years. Time to try something new.. But people shouldn’t hate on it so much.

 

They had a REALLY good model for what they tried to acomplish.....remove all the things about MMO gaming that kept the casual console / FPS gamers out in order to maximize on the gaming industries most lucrative pricing model (box sale + reoccuring monthly fee)

 

The reason people hate on WOW  AND the reason we haven't seen anything different in the last 6 years is because of how successful WOW was at bringing non traditional MMORPG gamers into the MMORPG genere.

 

Now that the "typical" MMO gamer is someone who has a very limited play time, and cant commit to steep learning curves, long play cycles, or any kind of punative consequences for playing poorly (because it reduces the amount of progress one can make in small play cycles).....the ONLY kind of game any big time MMO Publisher will risk 10s-100s of millions of dollars on ARE games for CASUAL MMORPG gamers.

 

EVE Online is one of the more successful sandbox MMORPGs (something completely outside the WOW Box) and its subscribers are somewhere around 300k

 

At this time last year, WOW was sporting somewhere around 12 MILLION subscribers.

 

If you're going to risk 10-100 million dollars in an over saturated & highly competitive market that is the MMORPG genere......would you risk it with an upside of getting 300k subs or 12 MILLION?

 

And now you understand why we have got nothing but WOW clones from the likes of EA & NCSoft. 

 

 

 

I’m sure I’ll think of more crap to spout out, but this is all I have for right now.

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

 

 

Calling me most MMO players is pretty ignorant. I am fairly atypical and you would know that if you read most of my posts here. I am designing an MMORPG with no level cap and an original magic system and context for magic and totally unique pve content, at least in the mmorpg genre, and I have like 15 threads about it in pub alone. I have played a lot of games with resets, mostly not mmorpgs because only ATITD has that afaik. Most of these games are much more sanbox than any mmorpg is, excepting some like ogame and travian. But all of these games have win conditions. You are using individual level resets in a persistant world and even ATITD doesn't go that far

 

I do know that you are making a MMO, but honestly who on this site isn’t? I’ve “designed one, and even started programming” at least a dozen times. So  I don’t honestly know what that has to do with anything.

You mentioned “win conditions”…last time I checked MMO’s don’t have any “win conditions”…but once again I don’t know what this has to do with my first statement.

 

Insofar as restarting in general goes, its just not going to work, especially in a themepark. Is there a gear cap? If so keeping your old gear fails to become relevant after the 2nd or 3rd play through when your gear starts capped. Your system is just another content reuser. How is that different from just rolling an alt? You have the same twinking of gear as in your system but you don't lose your original character. You have failed to make a case for the fundamental difference between your system and rolling an alt.

 

Its different from rerolling an alt, because it focuses the devs attention on the entire game, instead of just endgame. So there will be content update across the board, Who knows, instead of adding that new dungeon and another tier of armor at the end of the game, they’ll create a new starting area, and add 10 new NPCS all with separate quest.

 

The reason that single player games can be replayed is because you didn't use all the content the first time. Or changing classes, but those are all things you can do with an alt without the negatives of your system.

 

I don't care if its the 1 day it takes to cap in guildwars, or the month in WoW or 5 years. And fyi, if you could make the level cap last 5 years without constant repitition of content, why would you even need this system?

 

I never said anything about 5 years…so I dunno what you are talking about there. But it does make a difference how long the game is, if you “cap” in one day, then you will repeat the content 30 times a month. If you “cap” once a year then in 3 years gameplay you will only have reused the content 3 times. And by the time you come around again, you could reroll as a different class, So there would be different content, and in that year the devs could have added a new zone or two for leveling.

Either way your system is identical to rolling an alt but with an added unnecessary punishment of losing your previous character.

 

Besides refocusing the devs attention to updates and content, it also forces the PVE players to be spread out the entire level system, Instead of a huge block of players leveling to cap, insteadof everyone else who joins the game having 15 people to play with.

Its not my that isn't thinking outside the box or looking at the big picture, its you.

 

I really wasn't looking to start a huge argument about this, I think this design would work. You don't, thats fine. But coming in here and just bashing me because it doesn't fit with your opinion is very small minded. 

 

P.S. another idea that could work with this system, is the possibility of diffrent classes being "unlocked" once you level and die. FFXI did something of this sort, you had to get certain classes to certain levels to unlock other classes. It was pretty cool. 

 

AND LIKE I HAVE SAID ABOUT 10 TIMES ALREADY, the system would need some honing and some trial and error to work out the kinks.

As another old mmo'r: Isn't it just alot easier to not make level-based games which eliminates end-game grinds right away?

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Cuathon

 

 

Calling me most MMO players is pretty ignorant. I am fairly atypical and you would know that if you read most of my posts here. I am designing an MMORPG with no level cap and an original magic system and context for magic and totally unique pve content, at least in the mmorpg genre, and I have like 15 threads about it in pub alone. I have played a lot of games with resets, mostly not mmorpgs because only ATITD has that afaik. Most of these games are much more sanbox than any mmorpg is, excepting some like ogame and travian. But all of these games have win conditions. You are using individual level resets in a persistant world and even ATITD doesn't go that far

 

I do know that you are making a MMO, but honestly who on this site isn’t? I’ve “designed one, and even started programming” at least a dozen times. So  I don’t honestly know what that has to do with anything.

You mentioned “win conditions”…last time I checked MMO’s don’t have any “win conditions”…but once again I don’t know what this has to do with my first statement.

 

ATITD does have a sort of win condition, and many MMOs have win conditions, generally just not MMORPGs. As for my MMO I was referring to the content of the game, not the fact of its existence.

Insofar as restarting in general goes, its just not going to work, especially in a themepark. Is there a gear cap? If so keeping your old gear fails to become relevant after the 2nd or 3rd play through when your gear starts capped. Your system is just another content reuser. How is that different from just rolling an alt? You have the same twinking of gear as in your system but you don't lose your original character. You have failed to make a case for the fundamental difference between your system and rolling an alt.

 

Its different from rerolling an alt, because it focuses the devs attention on the entire game, instead of just endgame. So there will be content update across the board, Who knows, instead of adding that new dungeon and another tier of armor at the end of the game, they’ll create a new starting area, and add 10 new NPCS all with separate quest.

 

Here you say this and then provide no evidence. The only way that it would be better to add more content is if each level took the same amount of time to achieve. Otherwise more content at lower levels is uselss because you don't spend as much time there and chances are new content won't be used.

You never provided good reasons for why it would refocus dev attention, you just said it would.

The reason that single player games can be replayed is because you didn't use all the content the first time. Or changing classes, but those are all things you can do with an alt without the negatives of your system.

 

I don't care if its the 1 day it takes to cap in guildwars, or the month in WoW or 5 years. And fyi, if you could make the level cap last 5 years without constant repitition of content, why would you even need this system?

 

I never said anything about 5 years…so I dunno what you are talking about there. But it does make a difference how long the game is, if you “cap” in one day, then you will repeat the content 30 times a month. If you “cap” once a year then in 3 years gameplay you will only have reused the content 3 times. And by the time you come around again, you could reroll as a different class, So there would be different content, and in that year the devs could have added a new zone or two for leveling.

 

I never said you said 5 years, I was saying that the length of the level cap isn't relevant. In the example of guildwars you don't reuse the majority of the content over and over. And the part you reuse takes a day to do. And thats only in factions anyways. Sure if you buy one guildwars game you have to reuse content, to some degree, but thats because you stop paying money for new content because GW is b2p whereas most mmorpgs are subscription. If they charged per month two you would probably avoid it altogether.

 

Either way your system is identical to rolling an alt but with an added unnecessary punishment of losing your previous character.

 

Besides refocusing the devs attention to updates and content, it also forces the PVE players to be spread out the entire level system, Instead of a huge block of players leveling to cap, insteadof everyone else who joins the game having 15 people to play with.

 

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. You force people to do things and they just get pissed. They quit your game. Besides you pointed out that the leveling would take a huge amount of time, which means most people could play to cap for a long time. You may be able to have people at relatively even levels. Generally the kids who would get to cap quickly anyways wouldn't agree to play a game where they lost it all. You might get a niche markert, if you are lucky, especially since no company would make your game, but you wouldn't have more than a couple hundred players at the really low levels and even then, that wouldn't be concurrent users.

 

Its not my that isn't thinking outside the box or looking at the big picture, its you.

 

I really wasn't looking to start a huge argument about this, I think this design would work. You don't, thats fine. But coming in here and just bashing me because it doesn't fit with your opinion is very small minded. 

 Actually you bashed me first. You assumed I didn't understand your argument, called me part of most mmo players, and we all know that in this forum on this website thats practically calling me satan in human form, and made a lot of other judgements. This isn't an original idea, its been discussed by game designers, serious ones, not just hobbyists and is mostly considered not to work.

P.S. another idea that could work with this system, is the possibility of diffrent classes being "unlocked" once you level and die. FFXI did something of this sort, you had to get certain classes to certain levels to unlock other classes. It was pretty cool. 

 Unlocking classes or races at varying levels of ingame accomplishment does happen. But iirc you didn't lose your first character if you did that. So as I said its not the same.

AND LIKE I HAVE SAID ABOUT 10 TIMES ALREADY, the system would need some honing and some trial and error to work out the kinks.

And I am telling you why it won't work. You were the one who started the ad hominem. Also not every idea is successful even with trial and error. Some are just non starters. This is just another version of permadeath. And any one even remotely knowledgeable knows that is a huge no no in a persistent world. I designed a purely voluntary system for my game which actually has permadeath with titles and even stat bonuses for your next character. You can even get all your items back. The difference is that it is purely voluntary. And even with the titles and name recognition across the server and new stats and shit I still do not expect 90% of people who have the requisite item to do it. Because permadeath in a persistant multiplayer world is just not something players are okay with. I can't even imagine people willing to do play a game with mandated permadeath over and over and over.

Originally posted by jeddak

As another old mmo'r: Isn't it just alot easier to not make level-based games which eliminates end-game grinds right away?

Not make level based games or not make progression based games? Because skill based games still have a grind issue. Any game with progression has a grind problem in it. It doesn't matter what you label the progression mechanics as.

I remember a game a time back that contemplated such a system, but I don't think the game ever made it into beta. Essentially it used the life span system that you speak of, but when you would die, you would be reborn and your legacy would get passed down to the next generation.

Now it's going to bother me that I don't remember the name of this game!

You'll have to school me in your terminology. I've spent quite a few years in skill based and I don't remember grinding for it. If my swords goes up while fighting (or whatever skill you what to use) how is that grinding?

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

1.       So I’ve had this idea for a while, as a way to get rid of the “endgame grind” scenario that we have right now, And that would be give characters “life spans” now these life spans would probably be based on XP rather then time, that way if you don’t log for a month or two you won’t be dead. Anyways so say the level cap is like 80, then once you reach that level cap you “die” now all of your gear and items would be left to your inheritance (Aka you new character that is now just starting at level 1) you keep all of your “stuff” from the previous character, so the next time you go to level it would be faster. But this would help a MMO in a couple of ways (at least the way I see it)

1.       It defeats the old “grind till cap, then grind for gear” aspect

2.       It would allow the Devs to spend more time in the future adding more content for low level and mid level areas.

3.       It would stop the population of the MMO from getting to level cap, and then low level area’s are abandoned.

         Anyways I’m sure there would be some stuff to hone out on it, but I like it. Another portion to this idea is the fact that     leveling would take quite awhile. All of the dev time that is normally spent on endgame could then be spread out throughout the game, so level 1-80 would take 8mo-1 year.

 

 

 

2.       A lot of people on this forum have said things in the way of, “they are tired of standard fantasy MMO’s” And “they are tired of standard classes” they are tired of “the way we level with XP”

I don’t know about you guys…but I am not tired of it, I am still waiting for a good game to come out with those features, I am an avid fan of the original FFXI, I loved the preset classes, the grind to level, the walking 20 minutes to get somewhere, the forced partying. Stuff like that. I’m just waiting for a good game to come out with those features in it. *cough*ArcheAge*cough* /crosses fingers.

But enough people complain on here about standard rock steady MMO features of yesteryear that we haven’t seen in a decent MMO for close to 7 years now.

 

 

 

 

3.       World of Warcraft. This is just IMO…but wow started out as a really decent game, can’t speak for it as of recent because I haven’t played in 2 years… But a lot of people hate on WoW. But honestly I think they had a really good model, The only problem is that’s the only model we’ve seen for 8 years. Time to try something new.. But people shouldn’t hate on it so much.

 

 

 

I’m sure I’ll think of more crap to spout out, but this is all I have for right now.

The idea comes from muds back in the 80's.  It's called remorting.

http://www.mud.co.uk/dvw/whatisremort.html

Originally posted by jeddak

You'll have to school me in your terminology. I've spent quite a few years in skill based and I don't remember grinding for it. If my swords goes up while fighting (or whatever skill you what to use) how is that grinding?

In Tibia people used to sit with 2 shields surrounded by 8 rats and wait for their defense to rise cause it was the fastest way. If your level goes up when you fight how is that different from just sword going up when you fight?
Both systems use experience and require you to fight to get stronger. I suppose it depends on how you define grind, in most cases one person can consider something grinding and one doesnt.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

1.       So I’ve had this idea for a while, as a way to get rid of the “endgame grind” scenario that we have right now, And that would be give characters “life spans” now these life spans would probably be based on XP rather then time, that way if you don’t log for a month or two you won’t be dead. Anyways so say the level cap is like 80, then once you reach that level cap you “die” now all of your gear and items would be left to your inheritance (Aka you new character that is now just starting at level 1) you keep all of your “stuff” from the previous character, so the next time you go to level it would be faster. But this would help a MMO in a couple of ways (at least the way I see it)

1.       It defeats the old “grind till cap, then grind for gear” aspect

2.       It would allow the Devs to spend more time in the future adding more content for low level and mid level areas.

3.       It would stop the population of the MMO from getting to level cap, and then low level area’s are abandoned.

         Anyways I’m sure there would be some stuff to hone out on it, but I like it. Another portion to this idea is the fact that     leveling would take quite awhile. All of the dev time that is normally spent on endgame could then be spread out throughout the game, so level 1-80 would take 8mo-1 year.

 

 

 

2.       A lot of people on this forum have said things in the way of, “they are tired of standard fantasy MMO’s” And “they are tired of standard classes” they are tired of “the way we level with XP”

I don’t know about you guys…but I am not tired of it, I am still waiting for a good game to come out with those features, I am an avid fan of the original FFXI, I loved the preset classes, the grind to level, the walking 20 minutes to get somewhere, the forced partying. Stuff like that. I’m just waiting for a good game to come out with those features in it. *cough*ArcheAge*cough* /crosses fingers.

But enough people complain on here about standard rock steady MMO features of yesteryear that we haven’t seen in a decent MMO for close to 7 years now.

 

 

 

 

3.       World of Warcraft. This is just IMO…but wow started out as a really decent game, can’t speak for it as of recent because I haven’t played in 2 years… But a lot of people hate on WoW. But honestly I think they had a really good model, The only problem is that’s the only model we’ve seen for 8 years. Time to try something new.. But people shouldn’t hate on it so much.

 

 

 

I’m sure I’ll think of more crap to spout out, but this is all I have for right now.

The idea comes from muds back in the 80's.  It's called remorting.

http://www.mud.co.uk/dvw/whatisremort.html

That article counds similar to what they did in dragon warrior 3. But its not what OP described. He is not letting you keep any stats or skills or spells. It is not optional either.