Originally posted by red_cruiser

Personally, I'd love to see SW:TOR fail.  EA BioWare doesn't deserve success for this product.  I'd rather see Funcom, Arena.net, and Carbine Studios get the players. 

What.

SWTOR today has the HIGHEST Xfire played hours since launch!

Good thing Xfire stats are completely unreliable and meaningless, right?

Originally posted by dubyahite
Ok, well, considering as how the original premise of this thread (that tor had peaked on xfire) was not even true, can we please just bury thisthread and get over it?

Didn't think so. Xfire statistics are crap. They are worse than crap. They are the crap of the crap.

Anyone who thinks they are useful has blinders on. The numbers are meaningless. Its crap. Stop this silly argument about stupid software that doesn't mean anything.

I don't think we should, dub.

The title actually serves the purpose if you don't set it to any certain date but continue following the latest peak. And the graph is favorable to SW:TOR anyway, which makes it even more interesting. Had it dropped from initial launch it would've been really boring and just another over hyped cashcow. Now it has, at least, room for discussion about it's future.

And crap or no crap, it can be used with other statistics to discuss about it and speculate.

EDIT: a new peak for 2nd January 2012: 80742

It's good there wasn't a decline, it would've been a really bad sign. But the climb could've been a bit steeper, I think.

Well, next weekend is supposedly a normal weekend and isn't it 3rd week since launch?

Originally posted by ethion

The number to really focus on is the number of unique players not minutes played per day.  Any new game will have a much higher than normal minutes played as people are playing a lot leveling up.  Rather look at the number of players.  Looking at that statistic there has been a gradual increase in numbers with yesterday being the highest count yet at 10,843.  It has only just recently broken through 10k.  By comparison wow was around 19k.  Wow numbers seems to have been going down a bit maybe some wow players are checking out swtor?  

In any event it is clear that swtor is doing very well.  The real question will be can it continue to do well.

That makes sense. 11,627 yesterday, it's going up like a rocket.

I guess people saying that xFire stats are not and indication of number of players, must be thinking that the existing players are installing xFire like crazy, lol.

Originally posted by tom_gore

SWTOR today has the HIGHEST Xfire played hours since launch!

 

Good thing Xfire stats are completely unreliable and meaningless, right?

 

They mean shit. We all know it s doing well by logging in and seeing most servers High or Full with waits. Thats alot better indication then a program that literally no one uses.

It's my fault sorry everyone I was away for the holidays. You should now see a major spike in the numbers with all my alts!

Originally posted by tom_gore

SWTOR today has the HIGHEST Xfire played hours since launch!

 

Good thing Xfire stats are completely unreliable and meaningless, right?

 

Yes unreliable and meaningless.

You won't see me on XFire but I just can't stand it any longer, gonna have to buy this sucker this afternoon. I held off at launch because A) I was burned out after a year of betaing B) I was dissapointed in the space combat C) I knew it would be que city during launch and Christmas and wanted to save myself the anoyance D) I was busier than a cat trying to cover it's poop in the middle of a asphalt parking lot the last couple of weeks. But today we just had our first really cold day and I just can't stand it any longer. See you guys ingame, gotta run to Wally World anyway

Originally posted by tom_gore

SWTOR today has the HIGHEST Xfire played hours since launch!

Good thing Xfire stats are completely unreliable and meaningless, right?

Actually, yes. They ARE unreliable and meaningless. And I say that as a fan of SWTOR who's been playing since June.

Until the first free month ends and people actually start getting charged sub fees, everything else before then is total speculation. That includes XFire.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by tom_gore

SWTOR today has the HIGHEST Xfire played hours since launch!

Good thing Xfire stats are completely unreliable and meaningless, right?

Actually, yes. They ARE unreliable and meaningless. And I say that as a fan of SWTOR who's been playing since June.

Until the first free month ends and people actually start getting charged sub fees, everything else before then is total speculation. That includes XFire.

Can agree finally:P

Like my first post in this topic. Way to soon to see anything when looking for trends. Need time and, well, trends to look at :)

Trends are not a couple days, but over weeks, and for low overall numbers like x-fire, months are better.

Originally posted by tryklon
It seems the game didnt yet peaked after all. It now has more than 11,5k xfire users and it shows it keeps growing. Op theory was wrongafter all

Tinfoil hat failure? Xfire spitting out flawed statistics? The world may never know...

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

Noone uses it? It says 20.000.000 accounts registered and currently there're 130.000 players online. That IS A GARGANTUAL SAMPLE SIZE, in terms of statistics. This is far more accurate than any "election estimates, which are made on 1.000 sample size". Xfire operates at maybe 0.02% deviation,  it is as accurate as mathematics can be. There might be a discussion about what sort of players tend to use x-fire more often than others, but for what it is, it is extremely accurate.

Difference is that for election estimates they use what's known as a representative sample. And they go to great pains to achieve that. Xfire is a self-selecting sample, so it's not even a random sample and it's certainly not a representative sample either.

All Xfire trends tell you is trends amongst Xfire users. Which may or may not be useful.

Originally posted by tryklon
It seems the game didnt yet peaked after all. It now has more than 11,5k xfire users and it shows it keeps growing. Op theory was wrongafter all

If I'm reading the graph correctly, it spiked on a saturday?

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by tryklon
It seems the game didnt yet peaked after all. It now has more than 11,5k xfire users and it shows it keeps growing. Op theory was wrongafter all

 

If I'm reading the graph correctly, it spiked on a saturday?

 

Do mouseover, it's Jan 2, so, monday.

But the fact there is not even the graph because it only shows hours played, and it can for example show no increase of players but only an increase of hours played. But what is happening there is that the number or players is increasing daily, not only the hours played. So that brings down the theory that the game already peaked

Originally posted by DarLorkar

Can agree finally:P

I've been saying it since the beginning. That's just common sense.

Numbers before the end of the first month are pointless. Also, XFire is a crap statistical model and tool. Both of those things are true. 

Originally posted by Nipashnaka

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

Noone uses it? It says 20.000.000 accounts registered and currently there're 130.000 players online. That IS A GARGANTUAL SAMPLE SIZE, in terms of statistics. This is far more accurate than any "election estimates, which are made on 1.000 sample size". Xfire operates at maybe 0.02% deviation,  it is as accurate as mathematics can be. There might be a discussion about what sort of players tend to use x-fire more often than others, but for what it is, it is extremely accurate.

 

Difference is that for election estimates they use what's known as a representative sample. And they go to great pains to achieve that. Xfire is a self-selecting sample, so it's not even a random sample and it's certainly not a representative sample either.

All Xfire trends tell you is trends amongst Xfire users. Which may or may not be useful.

You're  a tad too late for this and please would you consider concentrating on the number speculation instead of XFire creditability speculation?

Besides, you are from US (according to your profile). Your election is the same kind of self-selecting sample as you have to register to vote. Not all coutries have that practise, but all above certain age are eligible (certain personal deficies may prevent you from having a vote, but that's another thing and not even a minority).

Your poitical vote is same kind of process we see in XFire. You have to have prerequisities (register to vote, buy a PC) and to actually vote once it's time for it (go to ballots, use XFire while playing the game).

Besides, they're aiming for the big markets. That's the place where people actually do use XFire, not among MMO-players but the others, muggles ;)

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by Nipashnaka

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

Or maybe less people are using Xfire? I don't. I've always thought Xfire is the worst way of tracking MMO populations because not everyone uses it. It's irrelevant.

Noone uses it? It says 20.000.000 accounts registered and currently there're 130.000 players online. That IS A GARGANTUAL SAMPLE SIZE, in terms of statistics. This is far more accurate than any "election estimates, which are made on 1.000 sample size". Xfire operates at maybe 0.02% deviation,  it is as accurate as mathematics can be. There might be a discussion about what sort of players tend to use x-fire more often than others, but for what it is, it is extremely accurate.

 

Difference is that for election estimates they use what's known as a representative sample. And they go to great pains to achieve that. Xfire is a self-selecting sample, so it's not even a random sample and it's certainly not a representative sample either.

All Xfire trends tell you is trends amongst Xfire users. Which may or may not be useful.

You're  a tad too late for this and please would you consider concentrating on the number speculation instead of XFire creditability speculation?

Besides, you are from US (according to your profile). Your election is the same kind of self-selecting sample as you have to register to vote. Not all coutries have that practise, but all above certain age are eligible (certain personal deficies may prevent you from having a vote, but that's another thing and not even a minority).

Your poitical vote is same kind of process we see in XFire. You have to have prerequisities (register to vote, buy a PC) and to actually vote once it's time for it (go to ballots, use XFire while playing the game).

Besides, they're aiming for the big markets. That's the place where people actually do use XFire, not among MMO-players but the others, muggles ;)

Congratulation you completely missed the point of some just in this thread probably +5 times repeated and dozen of times debunked  "argument" and almost every other existing thread several times repeated same failed argument (to claim xfire is a valid sampling process for extrapolation).

No one is talking about the election you just tried to explain, but preelection surveys to extrapolate the likely result of the following election (the person you quoted even explicitedly called it "election estimates"), but those have almost nothing in common with xfire even when dozen with no clue about neither xfire nor statistics/sampling keep comparing them.

Exactly these "preelection surveys" or even just normal samples are basis of the failed but ever repeated argument that xfire somehow is "legitimate" because "those adults with the statistic stuff do their survey stuff with a small fraction of polled people too, so xfire with its also small fraction of people is fine for extrapolation or trendmonitoring, even though I have no fucking clue what I am talking about"

tldr.: no one is talking about the election process, but pre election surveys or surveys in general. You're a tad out of touch with the very matter of whats actually going on in this whole topic .

Originally posted by DarLorkar

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

---

Originally posted by DarLorkar
Then it must be the one about x-fire can show trends in the whole game?

---

 

Can it? Sure, a broken clock is right twice a day. Can it be relied upon to show trends correctly? Not at all.

It's like saying the Amish, God bless them, can be accurate predictors of fashon trends. I mean they wear clothes right? Unless your fashon trend is towards black and white clothes it's not going to agree.

A representative selection of an entire population doesn't come from  a distinct subset and it's never self selected.

 

Hey a clock that is working is right twice a day as well.. as well as at other times:P

So who knows if it is working right , broke or just working sometimes?:P

So you folks take your "

A representative selection of an entire population doesn't come from  a distinct subset and it's never self selected.

Or your unbiased scientific not self selected..

Oh wait, you do not have any:)

So i guess we will take what we have and use it, ok?

 

 No a clock that's working is right all day long. That's how you tell it's not broken. A clock that's only right sometimes is worthless. I don't have any what? Some people in Africa use animal shit to build houses because that's what they have. I would just move.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by DarLorkar

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

---

Originally posted by DarLorkar
Then it must be the one about x-fire can show trends in the whole game?

---

 

Can it? Sure, a broken clock is right twice a day. Can it be relied upon to show trends correctly? Not at all.

It's like saying the Amish, God bless them, can be accurate predictors of fashon trends. I mean they wear clothes right? Unless your fashon trend is towards black and white clothes it's not going to agree.

A representative selection of an entire population doesn't come from  a distinct subset and it's never self selected.

 

Hey a clock that is working is right twice a day as well.. as well as at other times:P

So who knows if it is working right , broke or just working sometimes?:P

So you folks take your "

A representative selection of an entire population doesn't come from  a distinct subset and it's never self selected.

Or your unbiased scientific not self selected..

Oh wait, you do not have any:)

So i guess we will take what we have and use it, ok?

 

 No a clock that's working is right all day long. That's how you tell it's not broken. A clock that's only right sometimes is worthless. I don't have any what? Some people in Africa use animal shit to build houses because that's what they have. I would just move.

Yup you would just move or close your eyes and stick fingers in your ears and hum.

 Anything to be able to ignore what you do not like or agree with.

Thats ok be my guest, move on:)