Originally posted by warmaster670

You know theres 8 other numbers between 1 and 10 right? people seem to forget this alot lately.

And that is the problem. All these haters, fanboys, and many others have no sense of scaling a 1-10 system, and sometimes 0.

The absolute minimum would be fore a game that simply doesnt install or load for me to play 0-1. Pure rubbish would be 2-3. Very few games should receive such a low score. Lots of games should be 4-6, for me. Games that are good and great should be 7-9. I don't see anything being a flawless 10 though.

The extremists love to deal in absolutes - 1 or 10. "Star Wars quote about who deals in absolutes" :P

I'm still laughing over someone saying Metacritic is a good review site.....

Originally posted by Hopfrog

1.How heavily instanced is it?  Are just the flashpoints instanced or do they instance zones the way EQII did at launch.  I.e., there isn't one Barrens zone, but a few?  Instancing dungeons I can deal with, open world zones, that will kill it for me if this is the case.

2.Does the world feel empty and cold or alive?  Are there hubs where most people gather like Stormwind and Ogrimmar?

3.The companions, this seems odd to me.  Does everyone get the same ones?  I saw a companion named 'Vette' in a video... does everyone from that class have a companion named Vette?  Do people run around zones with their companions? In end game do you just store your companions on you ship or do they run around zones with you?

4.Do the cut scenes get reptitive or are they always new and fresh?  When reading quest text I sometimes just fast forward through it.  At higher levels are you escaping out of the cutscenes or do they stay intriguing?

Thanks for any info, I am 50/50 on buying this and don't want to spend $80 without more info.

1. Preety heavily.

There can be and relatively frequently is more than one certain zone. Like you said "few Barrens zones".

Depend on server population ,etc - but game was used to create another "zone" when there were more than 120 players? Don't remember exact number and I believe there is no official number ,but you get an rough idea.   I missed lot of players everywhere. I mean you see them and quite a bit,but well less than in most games.

2. Kinda feel like an artifical world and not "alive and vibrant".  Missing ambient sounds sometimes , alot of static mobs everywhere , and my subjective feel...   Certainly hard to immerse for me if you look at an open world. 

3. I believe all classes / faction have diffrent companions.  Whole comapnions is bit odd idea in mmorpg , but maybe that's just me.

4. Most stories aren't really ground shaking and many are predictable. (note: I played for relatively short amount of time ,so it may be diff later on). Few of them were really good though.

What is bad in cutscenes ?   Always 3 dialogue options , lack of complexity in many dialogues , paraphrasing.

Very subjective though as I favor old style Planetscape : Torment, Fallout 2 , Arcanum , etc dialogues as they gave you frequently ALOT of more options , some dialogues were really long ,etc   - it was at cost of aniamtion and sound though.

If tyou like aniamtion & sounds then Swtor is nice, If you prefer deeper , longer conversations with more options but without sound then it is preety bad imo.

Game itself - If you're into WoW-like / late Lotro like games , that are very conveniant then it is good. Otherwise not really imo.

I rate it at 5 maybe.

It all depends

If you are looking for objective opinions on the game, you came to the wrong place.

Originally posted by warmaster670

You know theres 8 other numbers between 1 and 10 right? people seem to forget this alot lately.

There has been alot of these "This game is crap rated 1.0" and "Woot best game eva, I rate this 10" threads the last month, and he wonders whom to believe..

The answer is simple. Do you like Bioware games and mmorpgs? If the answer is yes either of these questions then the answer is 1 because Bioware tried to combine those two genres and ended up with sacrificing the best the srpgs offer... AND the best mmorpgs offer. Instead of a great Bioware game combined with a great mmorpg we hoped for, we have a bad, limited, clunky srpg and a bad, linear mmorpg...

UNLESS you

a) love Star Wars

b) are pathologically sentimental

c) someone pays you to pretend you like it

d) are desperate for ANY mmo worth playing

e) you want Bioware to be the father of your child, regardless of your gender

f) REALLY love Star Wars

g) hate Star Wars so much you play this for the same kind of sado-masochistic pleasure you watched the prequel trilogy dozens of times.

So... I really don't see any middle ground in this debate. It's either 1 or 10. Those in the middle are all hypocrites pretending to be "objective," whatever that means.

Originally posted by nationalcity

I'm still laughing over someone saying Metacritic is a good review site.....

name one that is "better" you "objective," "cynical" person

This is just another example of the extremes we deal with in these forums, and within the gaming community in general. It's either an A+ or an F-, 1 or a 10, with absolutely no range in the middle to adequately, or even fairly, value a title. TOR falls in the middle somewhere, but I'm sure it's difficult to realize this when you, and I don't mean anyone in particular, view things with complete fatalism.

Originally posted by Hopfrog

Most of the critics seem to be positive on it, but I am reading a lot of comments from mmo vets bashing it.

The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years.

They will always be bashing every game. This will never change.

People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others, so you really have to try it out if your prior research leaves you with a positive feeling.

To answer your questions:

1. They make you sign up for 30 days, but you can cancel up to 14 days before your current subscription (or your first 30 free days) ends.

2. Yes, zones are multi-layered to control the population. I was also heavily against this in past games, but to my surprise it is not really an issue in SWTOR if you take the game for what it is. Actually, if they hadn't done it this way it would break immersion even more. The population is controlled to keep immersion in line with the stories and it works very well.

The reason it works so well here (as opposed to other games) is the RPG connection you are getting with the world and with your charachter thanks to the stories and the cinematics. Allowing hundreds of people into the zones together would break the great RPG feeling you get. If you like RPG you should not have a problem with this. This would be an issue for you if you were only looking for a game, but the RPG part is so well done here that population control is (surprisingly) very welcome. You will meet people everywhere you go, don't worry.

3. The world feels alive. I have been very sensitive to this in other games (i.ex Vanguard with its dead world and cities). But here there are NPCs and animations bringing the world alive (more alive than Lotro, for instance). There are still a couple missing environment or environment NPC sounds (like Lotro at launch), but nothing major (not as much a problem as you can find in some other games like Darkfall for example) You will hear some wind, explosions and activity around you, etc... And some great music of course. Yes there are hubs were people also tend to gather (for shopping, main quest NPCs, etc...).

The worlds are so very well done that the above few minuses are not bothering me at all.

4. Every one gets up to 5 companions (different sets for each class). You can have them run around with you or dismiss them. You can also send them to do some taks for you (like selling your goods to free up some inventory space, sending them to do some crafting or sending them on some quests to do some gathering - they play a big part in your crafting and gathering.).

You can chose how to dress them and you will manage their armor and weapon upgrades, so most of them will look different. Other players will not see their names (as they have the same names), they will see "Hopfrog's Companion".

5. The stories stay intriguing. They feel always different and new (like Bioware games). I am now level 30 and still enjoying them. It is much more than the simple questing you see in other mmos. You decide the outcome; if you want to move to the dark or light side, and your companions' affection (you can also play the romance part with some of the companions, and this affection value increases/decreases depending on the choices you make during your lifetime. You can also get married with your companion).

Yes you also have the "go fetch me this or do that" quests, but there always is a deep story about the consequences and why you have to do it. This changes everything for me (before I prefered to grind my way in Lineage 2, now I am finally enjoying quests again).

And then you also have the dynamic quests that start when you enter some areas, also when you go out exploring the world. I.ex: suddenly a flying droid will pop out of the sky and show you a holo screen that will start a multi-stage quest (usually 3 to 4 stages). These quests have no cinematics (they are not needed) and  you are not getting them from NPCs.

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hopfrog

Most of the critics seem to be positive on it, but I am reading a lot of comments from mmo vets bashing it.

 

The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years.

They will always be bashing every game. This will never change.

People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others.

I think you're fooling yourself if you believe it's the same group of people "bashing" every new release. Why can't different people like different things? I'm not allowed to post criticisms of any one game in particular, because I'm going to be considered an individual who dislikes all MMO's? Do you realize how extremist this is?

I'll be playing the game soon enough, but I have to say that I know already without having played it, that it wouldn't get a 1 nor would it get a 10.  Something like Air Cars for the Atari Jaguar might get a 1.. it's barely playable.  However, I base my scores on how new and mind-blowing the concept and gameplay are to me.  Thus when I first played it, Super Mario 64 would have been a 10.  It was new to me, it was amazing, and it was deep (and it's still fun to play).

SWTOR on the other hand will never get a 10 because it shares way too much with other MMOs to blow me away, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't get a decent score.  

I'd say its a 9.5. Its a  type of game I've been wanting for about 7 years now. Its what I always wanted Star Wars Galaxies to be, but the technology wasn't there 7 years ago. With that said I dare say it is the best MMO currently available. Nothing comes close to it. I know the combat is nothing new, but the Bioware style eithical and moral choices in storytelling and the fact that its story-driven. Is exactly what makes it the best, nothing comes close to the scope and magnitude of TOR and nothing will for atleast a year or more. This game is the next generation in online interactive entertainment. Finally the reason why I gave it a 9.5, is due to the fact no game iis perfect. If anyone says their favorite game is perfect, there only lying to themselves. Developers are human beings, just like the rest of us and humans are imperfects. You're never going to like something 100%, theres always going to be something you didn't like. In my opinion TOR is a 9.5, where as WOW is a 5.5. Its my opinion and you can agree  or disagree, because that would be your own opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. So lets just move on.

Originally posted by purewitz

I'd say its a 9.5. Its a  type of game I've been wanting for about 7 years now. Its what I always wanted Star Wars Galaxies to be, but the technology wasn't there 7 years ago. With that said I dare say it is the best MMO currently available. Nothing comes close to it. I know the combat is nothing new, but the Bioware style eithical and moral choices in storytelling and the fact that its story-driven. Is exactly what makes it the best, nothing comes close to the scope and magnitude of TOR and nothing will for atleast a year or more. This game is the next generation in online interactive entertainment. Finally the reason why I gave it a 9.5, is due to the fact no game iis perfect. If anyone says their favorite game is perfect, there only lying to themselves. Developers are human beings, just like the rest of us and humans are imperfects. You're never going to like something 100%, theres always going to be something you didn't like. In my opinion TOR is a 9.5, where as WOW is a 5.5. Its my opinion and you can agree  or disagree, because that would be your own opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. So lets just move on.

Your name sums up this post relatively good...

dude if u like themepark games aka go kill x return and go kill more x then this game is for u!

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hopfrog

Most of the critics seem to be positive on it, but I am reading a lot of comments from mmo vets bashing it.

 

The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years.

They will always be bashing every game. This will never change.

People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others.

I think you're fooling yourself if you believe it's the same group of people "bashing" every new release. Why can't different people like different things? I'm not allowed to post criticisms of any one game in particular, because I'm going to be considered an individual who dislikes all MMO's? Do you realize how extremist this is?

Where did I say it's the same group of people?

Read my post again, you are actually confirming what I said. And so we agree. 

Originally posted by Filterheadz

dude if u like themepark games aka go kill x return and go kill more x then this game is for u!

Except that doesn't happen in this game.  But whatever.  

Originally posted by Filterheadz

dude if u like themepark games aka go kill x return and go kill more x then this game is for u!

Actually, before TOR, I couldn't stand the questing in mmos anymore, it was always the same quest grind.

So I prefered to grind my way on mobs in Lineage 2, with no quests.

TOR has changed this. The deep stories and the consequences are a breath of fresh air for me. I am back in the game worlds as I haven't been for the past 5 or 6 years. Thanks Bioware for curing my burnout.

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hopfrog

Most of the critics seem to be positive on it, but I am reading a lot of comments from mmo vets bashing it.

 

The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years.

They will always be bashing every game. This will never change.

People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others.

I think you're fooling yourself if you believe it's the same group of people "bashing" every new release. Why can't different people like different things? I'm not allowed to post criticisms of any one game in particular, because I'm going to be considered an individual who dislikes all MMO's? Do you realize how extremist this is?

 

Where did I say it's the same group of people?

Read my post again, you are actually confirming what I said. And so we agree. 

 

"The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years."

I'll break it down for you, though I figured since you wrote it, you'd understand it. "MMO vets" is a group of people, who've been posting on this forum for "7 years", bashing every single game that has been released. You wrote it. Who's confirming anything? If you've actually read through my post history, you'd realize that I'm a pretty neutral guy, though I have a pinchant for sandboxes. I play themeparks, I've enjoyed many of them, and so have many others.

I'll ask you again, since you didn't bother answering any of my questions. Do you realize how extremist this is, to classify an entire group of people as constant decryers of all MMO's, when clearly many of us dislike and like different things in tandem?

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hopfrog

Most of the critics seem to be positive on it, but I am reading a lot of comments from mmo vets bashing it.

 

The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years.

They will always be bashing every game. This will never change.

People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others.

I think you're fooling yourself if you believe it's the same group of people "bashing" every new release. Why can't different people like different things? I'm not allowed to post criticisms of any one game in particular, because I'm going to be considered an individual who dislikes all MMO's? Do you realize how extremist this is?

 

Where did I say it's the same group of people?

Read my post again, you are actually confirming what I said. And so we agree. 

 

"The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years."

 

I'll break it down for you, though I figured since you wrote it, you'd understand it. "MMO vets" is a group of people, who've been posting on this forum for "7 years", bashing every single game that has been released. You said it. Who's confirming anything? If you've actually read through my post history, you'd realize that I'm a pretty neutral guy, though I have a pinchant for sandboxes. I play themeparks, I've enjoyed many of them, and so have many others.

 

I'll ask you again, since you didn't bother answering any of my questions. Do you realize how extremist this is, to classify an entire group of people as constant decryers of all MMO's?

Wow, mate, I can't believe we are discussing this?

"MMO vets" is a general group consisting of different people. This group (as a whole) has NEVER agreed a game was good. And as I said if you read me without ignoring 1/3 as you just did above:

"People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others."

And so, you are confirming what I said, your opinion being an opinion.

Ok? A nice day to you.

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by BigMango

Originally posted by Hopfrog

Most of the critics seem to be positive on it, but I am reading a lot of comments from mmo vets bashing it.

 

The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years.

They will always be bashing every game. This will never change.

People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others.

I think you're fooling yourself if you believe it's the same group of people "bashing" every new release. Why can't different people like different things? I'm not allowed to post criticisms of any one game in particular, because I'm going to be considered an individual who dislikes all MMO's? Do you realize how extremist this is?

 

Where did I say it's the same group of people?

Read my post again, you are actually confirming what I said. And so we agree. 

 

"The mmo vets posting on this forum have been bashing every single game that has been released in the past 7 years."

 

I'll break it down for you, though I figured since you wrote it, you'd understand it. "MMO vets" is a group of people, who've been posting on this forum for "7 years", bashing every single game that has been released. You said it. Who's confirming anything? If you've actually read through my post history, you'd realize that I'm a pretty neutral guy, though I have a pinchant for sandboxes. I play themeparks, I've enjoyed many of them, and so have many others.

 

I'll ask you again, since you didn't bother answering any of my questions. Do you realize how extremist this is, to classify an entire group of people as constant decryers of all MMO's?

 

Wow, mate, I can't believe we are discussing this?

"MMO vets" is a general group consisting of different people. And as I said I you read me:

"People have different tastes and opinions. What works great for some doesn't work for others."

And so, you are confirming what I said, your opinion being an opinion.

Ok? A nice day to you.

So, you're saying that since it's an opinion, you can classify an entire group of people with criticisms as individuals who dislike everything, upon every release? Opinion without some basis in reality is stupidity, or ignorance. Sometimes it's easier to believe that there's a boogey men of MMO haters on this site, looking to stir up trouble for anyone who likes anything. This is refered to as an extreme, because it is not reflected in reality.

Have an opinion all you want, but this isn't about personalized impression, or individual thought. It's about the truth, the fact that many people like different things, at different times, and that this "group" of negatives you claim exists on this board, are actually made of varying people, at varying times.