I tend to agree. PVP was clearly only an afterthought, it's more a figleaf PVP. I always vividly hated arena PVP. The only really interesting PVP is, IMVPO, open zone PVP, and then tiered to level ranges. You can say about Warhammer what you want, but it had the only PVP I ever really enjoyed. The castle sieges allowed me to just stand somewhere and focus. All other PVP is just way too much hectic, mindless people running like mad in all directions.

I'd hope to see a PVP with "castles" and tiered areas, as in WAR, in SWTOR sometimes. That would be the only PVP I am interested in, and not this WOW- nonsense of arenas.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

I dont think people want to play WoW2? do you? why even have battlegrounds? fucking boring crap. If developers tried to make some Inovation and try to Understand that people really dont want to watch the same movies OVER and Over and they sure dont want to play the same game Over and over, we might get us a smash hit in the MMO mark

Transformers - $709,709,780

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - $836,303,693

Transformers: Dark of the Moon - $1,123,746,996

MW2 - Within 24 hours of release, the game sold approximately 4.7 million copies in North American and the United Kingdom

BO - Within 24 hours of going on sale, the game sold more than 5.6 million copies

MW3 - Within 24 hours of going on sale, the game sold 6.5 million copies in the US and UK alone and grossed $400 million

"people want innovation" - Zlayer77

Re the PvP on Illum, it sounds just like the screw-up made by Funcom in AoC's Bori.

I really wish that developers would study a bit of game theory to try to model players' likely behaviour in advance when developing PvP situations involving rewards.

Just a basic understanding of situations like prisoners' dilemma and the like could provide some insight.

Originally posted by Enosh

Originally posted by Zlayer77

I dont think people want to play WoW2? do you? why even have battlegrounds? fucking boring crap. If developers tried to make some Inovation and try to Understand that people really dont want to watch the same movies OVER and Over and they sure dont want to play the same game Over and over, we might get us a smash hit in the MMO mark

Transformers - $709,709,780

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - $836,303,693

Transformers: Dark of the Moon - $1,123,746,996

MW2 - Within 24 hours of release, the game sold approximately 4.7 million copies in North American and the United Kingdom

BO - Within 24 hours of going on sale, the game sold more than 5.6 million copies

MW3 - Within 24 hours of going on sale, the game sold 6.5 million copies in the US and UK alone and grossed $400 million

"people want innovation" - Zlayer77

So what do you suggest?... play the same gameplay over and over again just because there's such a large community of sheep that will buy anything that's new and popular?

Originally posted by pharazonic

The PvP in this game is downright awful from what I have heard. Balance issues aside, BW has been incredibly naive in their approach to PvP.

 

Blizzard learned in 2008 that servers will co-operate even in PvP and trade the zone back and forth to get the reward. Therefore, they intervened and fixed it by tweaking how the rewards worked. 

What you describe in SWTOR is similar in nature -- but BW has the inexpertise or lack of knowledge to not even think their PvP model is broken.

 

Let's not even touch the Warzone level thing. As I said earlier, some very "special" individual at BioWare head office must have been on something when they decided to lump all players for WZ. 

 

What a downright dumb idea. 

 

 

old news

Originally posted by Slampig

I don't need to play to determine that no bracket PvP is the dumbest idea ever.

I don't need to play to determine that Ilum is a hot mess because of its stupid design.

I don't need to play to determine that the clunky combat is an utter hindrance in PvP.

I'm sorry that you have to play to find all of this out. I guess having experience from past MMOs is helpful now and then. 

10-50 grouping is stupid, you just get slaughtered by higher levels.

Originally posted by sgel
So what do you suggest?... play the same gameplay over and over again just because there's such a large community of sheep that will buy anything that's new and popular?

I am suggesting his argument that people want constant innovation is false

Originally posted by pharazonic

Originally posted by Slampig

 

I don't need to play to determine that no bracket PvP is the dumbest idea ever.

I don't need to play to determine that Ilum is a hot mess because of its stupid design.

I don't need to play to determine that the clunky combat is an utter hindrance in PvP.

 

I'm sorry that you have to play to find all of this out. I guess having experience from past MMOs is helpful now and then. 

You just dont know what you are talking about thats all

Originally posted by sgel

Originally posted by Enosh

Originally posted by Zlayer77

I dont think people want to play WoW2? do you? why even have battlegrounds? fucking boring crap. If developers tried to make some Inovation and try to Understand that people really dont want to watch the same movies OVER and Over and they sure dont want to play the same game Over and over, we might get us a smash hit in the MMO mark

Transformers - $709,709,780

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - $836,303,693

Transformers: Dark of the Moon - $1,123,746,996

MW2 - Within 24 hours of release, the game sold approximately 4.7 million copies in North American and the United Kingdom

BO - Within 24 hours of going on sale, the game sold more than 5.6 million copies

MW3 - Within 24 hours of going on sale, the game sold 6.5 million copies in the US and UK alone and grossed $400 million

"people want innovation" - Zlayer77

So what do you suggest?... play the same gameplay over and over again just because there's such a large community of sheep that will buy anything that's new and popular?

 You can do anything you want but companies are going to do what makes money every time. It's better to be part of a community than a hermit living in a cave cursing his luck.

I'm tired of hearing negatives about SWTOR. It does not suck at all. It just isn't for everyone. There are plenty of other games out there for you to try. I suggest World of Warcraft. Also I noticed many of the OPs complaints are also present in WoW. Kinda funny. Druids have the same speed advantage for CTF, and priests have power word shield. What is the difference there?

Yeah it is annoying to be knocked into the acid pool or fire. You have to save your CD just to get out of that. I'll agree some classes have advantages for ball carrying right now. How long has the game been out though? Like 2 weeks?

SWTOR may not be the most innovative game but I'm really loving the flashpoints. Once in a while Huttball is nice when I'm bored with the questing. When the server goes down I play Skyrim.

I also do not see this game as a WoW clone. I am happy that some people think it is though, that should get rid of some of the kids from WoW. Maybe the TOR community has a chance to survive after all.

Edit: My only wish is that they add level brackets of some kind to warzones. I don't like how 3 level 50s look happy to see me when I come out of the rez zone. (I'm lvl 28 currently)

Originally posted by snapfusion

BATTLEGROUNDS  Launching with three is fine for now WOW launched with zero, oh you dont remember? Ya and classes have unique abilities giving them diferent advantages in different situations......so?

 

WORLD PVP  Would like to see more of it

 

PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting but there are not that many 50's yet so everyone knows everyone maybe it will change when the zerg arrives.

Because comparing a game released in 2004 with a game released in 2011 when WoW already has shown the way to others is a good comparison.

That's like giving you the answers to a pop quiz and you still can't get the answers correct on the test.

Swtor will be just another themepark end game raiding mmo with new raids added every few months and nothing else. this is one mmo i wont be paying 15 bucks a month to play. if i wanted to play an mmo like this i would just play wow because wow does this kind of content the best. i cant believe that a star wars mmo end game is raiding, they must have some bright sparks at bioware to come up with this kind of original content. i was giving swtor the benefit of the doubt but now i'll say it...wow clone.

Originally posted by Enosh

I am suggesting his argument that people want constant innovation is false

The fact that you would use evidence of the "Transformers" movies to debunk his argument makes me question your (awful) train of though. 

Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.

It's the same with games. 

We're a niche market to begin with. This is an intense hobby for many. Guess what, many don't want the "Transformers" equivalent of an MMO because that is the movie you watch once and only once (unless you're a 13 year old boy). 

The evidence speaks for itself - games like EVE have a tight knit community, keep sucking in people repeatedly even if they feel the game isn't right for them, and have steady if slow growth over the years.

Whereas generic games just become revolving doors. Every now and then I read the RIFT forums and I see no familiar faces. It's a revolving door MMO, that's what it is. People enter while the ones inside leave. Then the cycle repeats itself. 

I don't expect you to understand any of this so don't feel bad if you don't. 

Originally posted by pharazonic

Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.

 Elitist bullshit argument number five thousand eight hundred and twenty three. Movies that are innovative and held in high esteem win awards at film festivals and get slaughtered at the box offce. Companies with any sense at all do not make movies or games almost no one wants to pay for.  For every EVE there are a hundred Ryzoms.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by pharazonic

Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.

 Elitist bullshit argument number five thousand eight hundred and twenty three. Movies that are innovative and held in high esteem win awards at film festivals and get slaughtered at the box offce. Companies with any sense at all do not make movies or games almost no one wants to pay for.  For every EVE there are a hundred Ryzoms.

That's the risk a creator must take when creating a quality product. 

I feel sorry for you that you feel you must settle for something because it is safer and/or more profitable. 

Your argument is exactly what is wrong with the world today...  it's not about making a quality product anymore, it's solely about raking in $$$. 

 

Those movies that win awards at film festivals? They stand the test of time. People have already forgotten Transformers which is why they flocked to see the 3rd installment. 

 

Anyway, this whole comparison is stupid (as I pointed out to that poster) because these are 2 very different industries.  Of course, it clearly slid off you as well, so I will not make a big deal about it. 

I understand if you don't. 

Originally posted by pharazonic

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by pharazonic

Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.

 Elitist bullshit argument number five thousand eight hundred and twenty three. Movies that are innovative and held in high esteem win awards at film festivals and get slaughtered at the box offce. Companies with any sense at all do not make movies or games almost no one wants to pay for.  For every EVE there are a hundred Ryzoms.

That's the risk a creator must take when creating a quality product. 

I feel sorry for you that you feel you must settle for something because it is safer and/or more profitable. 

Your argument is exactly what is wrong with the world today...  it's not about making a quality product anymore, it's solely about raking in $$$. 

 

Those movies that win awards at film festivals? They stand the test of time. People have already forgotten Transformers which is why they flocked to see the 3rd installment. 

 

Anyway, this whole comparison is stupid (as I pointed out to that poster) because these are 2 very different industries.  Of course, it clearly slid off you as well, so I will not make a big deal about it. 

I understand if you don't. 

 Dude you can beat that drum until the end of time but clearly companies who intend to make money do not agree. The reason they do not agree is the vast majority of their customers do not agree. It's the same sad bullshit that has fifty critics standing around a sculpture gushing about the breadth and depth of an artist's vision while everyone else wonders about it's value at the scrapyard.

Originally posted by papaz1

Originally posted by snapfusion

BATTLEGROUNDS  Launching with three is fine for now WOW launched with zero, oh you dont remember? Ya and classes have unique abilities giving them diferent advantages in different situations......so?

 

WORLD PVP  Would like to see more of it

 

PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting but there are not that many 50's yet so everyone knows everyone maybe it will change when the zerg arrives.

 

Because comparing a game released in 2004 with a game released in 2011 when WoW already has shown the way to others is a good comparison.

That's like giving you the answers to a pop quiz and you still can't get the answers correct on the test.

WoW's PVP in 2004 was far superior to what it is now.

Cause there was no Battlegrounds the world was full of people making their own battlegrounds. From people fighting at Tarren Mill to groups dedicating themselves to protecting lowbies to City Raids every weekend. Then Battlegrounds came in and took all the players away from doing that because Blizzard never gave a reason to world PVP.

Seven years on and world PVP still has no reason to it, they haven't even bothered. Surely they could let people capture contested territory, funny how it is contested and you cannot fight for it :S All MMOs do now is battlegrounds and ignore world PVP, Ilum is just AV from WoW with all PVE objectives and it sucks. 

The whole Keep RVR in WAR was amazing in beta, had 600 people fights for objectives that were PVP based and not PVE like SWTOR's Ilum. Problem with that game is they made battlegrounds better than the Keep captures and the world PVP died. Also the world designed sucked, they only needed Tier 4 and to get rid of the rest tbh.

the issue is the easness of getting pro pvp gear at 50 (both faction ignore eachother)it wasnt meant to work this way ,now they ll have to add a condition saying you need to kill 20 of opposite faction or so to force this!only light at the end of the tunnel is world raid pvp this is very intensive (when it work)if they make it spawn at specific time ,this could solve a lot of issue bio has,just put better reward here and issue fixed for end game gear!would slow down progression but it would be way more fun!