Originally posted by Siveria

Originally posted by Margulis

Originally posted by Siveria

All I can say is if this game had 7 years of dev time.. how the hell did this game turn out so generic and boring? Its missing basic mmorpg features even free to play titles with very small budgets have. To be the game feels like dragon age 2, a total rush job that was just pushed out asap. I honestly think anyone who subs to swtor is sort of throwing money away for a unfinished product. The game in its current state is not really worth a sub fee, I don't know if it ever will be with how the game is. With 7 years of dev time you'd expect a far better game than swtor ended up being.

If it truly started in development 7 years ago, that may explain why it seems so antiquated.  They probably decided on the wow model and graphic style way back at a point when a large portion of gamers weren't bored to tears with mmo after mmo following the generic theme park gameplay, and it seemed like a good idea to follow it.

Too bad SWTOR didn't come out 5 years ago, it would have been received much better in my opinion, plus probably would be much more successful.  Yes it will be successful, but this type of mmo coming out in 2012 basically is just a little too late to the party in my opinion

Yeah it is kinda way to late to the party themeparks are slowly dying out, even WoW has been steadly losing subs and interest from its playerbase. I also agree on the 5 years ago part, if the game did come out 5 years ago I probally would have loved it to death, I loved WoW way back when it first came out, I had the orignal game pre-ordered. Its gone downhill though with each expansion. SWToR is as you phrased it late to the party, was a bad move to release a generic themepark/wow clone when the themepark mmo is starting to die off.

Also to the people wowed by the server amount, You have to remember, the game just came out, they are all playing on their included free time with the game purchaise, After this free month I expect about 90% of the servers to have very few people on it and server merges will end up happening shortly after that, it happens in all theme park mmo's. Themepark mmo's with the exception of World of Warcraft don't have very long retention due to getting stale/boring quickly, swtor and most likely gw2 won't escape this if they using this formula. Only mmo on the horizon that interests me is phantasy star online 2, the rest look like the same generic garbage reskined. PSO2 sadly hasn't been confirmed for a US release yet, but I am sure it will, PSO has tons of fans outside of japan, probally more actually lol.

Themeparks aren't a bad subgenre of mmorpg's the problem is everyone keeps exactly copying wow in terms of classes, progression and feel. Combat in swtor to me was a slower more basic form of the combat in wow. Slower due to a higher global cooldown, that has lack of a decent targeting system, then again WoW does too. Best targeting system I seen was eq2, target the tank, anything helpful to a player is cast on the tank, anything that needs a enemy target will automatcally hit what the tank (or the player you have targeted) has targeted, this allowed healers to also throw out some offensive nukes easly without having to fumble with retargeting the tank like in WoW/Swtor.

This is exatly how I feel about this game, it's a 2011/12 game and yet it's missing stuff that all other mmo's have, no combat log, macros, UI customization, why? I don't know maybe because they spent 3/4 of their budget on voice acting, making everything else suffer. I'm not even playing on my level 50 consular right now because it's so god damn boring and sad to see this is what swtor is. EA probably told Bioware to make a mmo just like WoW becauset that's where the money is, and yes it's pretty much copy paste WoW , tokens, hardmodes, cooldown on quick travel, mounts (why can you jump with a speeder / every vehicle in the game?) there are so many similarities in this game I've never seen anything like it. I am very dissappointed, I knew swtor would be a theme park mmo, but not this bad.

Originally posted by Dreamion

Originally posted by Siveria

Originally posted by Margulis

Originally posted by Siveria

All I can say is if this game had 7 years of dev time.. how the hell did this game turn out so generic and boring? Its missing basic mmorpg features even free to play titles with very small budgets have. To be the game feels like dragon age 2, a total rush job that was just pushed out asap. I honestly think anyone who subs to swtor is sort of throwing money away for a unfinished product. The game in its current state is not really worth a sub fee, I don't know if it ever will be with how the game is. With 7 years of dev time you'd expect a far better game than swtor ended up being.

If it truly started in development 7 years ago, that may explain why it seems so antiquated.  They probably decided on the wow model and graphic style way back at a point when a large portion of gamers weren't bored to tears with mmo after mmo following the generic theme park gameplay, and it seemed like a good idea to follow it.

Too bad SWTOR didn't come out 5 years ago, it would have been received much better in my opinion, plus probably would be much more successful.  Yes it will be successful, but this type of mmo coming out in 2012 basically is just a little too late to the party in my opinion

Yeah it is kinda way to late to the party themeparks are slowly dying out, even WoW has been steadly losing subs and interest from its playerbase. I also agree on the 5 years ago part, if the game did come out 5 years ago I probally would have loved it to death, I loved WoW way back when it first came out, I had the orignal game pre-ordered. Its gone downhill though with each expansion. SWToR is as you phrased it late to the party, was a bad move to release a generic themepark/wow clone when the themepark mmo is starting to die off.

Also to the people wowed by the server amount, You have to remember, the game just came out, they are all playing on their included free time with the game purchaise, After this free month I expect about 90% of the servers to have very few people on it and server merges will end up happening shortly after that, it happens in all theme park mmo's. Themepark mmo's with the exception of World of Warcraft don't have very long retention due to getting stale/boring quickly, swtor and most likely gw2 won't escape this if they using this formula. Only mmo on the horizon that interests me is phantasy star online 2, the rest look like the same generic garbage reskined. PSO2 sadly hasn't been confirmed for a US release yet, but I am sure it will, PSO has tons of fans outside of japan, probally more actually lol.

Themeparks aren't a bad subgenre of mmorpg's the problem is everyone keeps exactly copying wow in terms of classes, progression and feel. Combat in swtor to me was a slower more basic form of the combat in wow. Slower due to a higher global cooldown, that has lack of a decent targeting system, then again WoW does too. Best targeting system I seen was eq2, target the tank, anything helpful to a player is cast on the tank, anything that needs a enemy target will automatcally hit what the tank (or the player you have targeted) has targeted, this allowed healers to also throw out some offensive nukes easly without having to fumble with retargeting the tank like in WoW/Swtor.

This is exatly how I feel about this game, it's a 2011/12 game and yet it's missing stuff that all other mmo's have, no combat log, macros, UI customization, why? I don't know maybe because they spent 3/4 of their budget on voice acting, making everything else suffer. I'm not even playing on my level 50 consular right now because it's so god damn boring and sad to see this is what swtor is. EA probably told Bioware to make a mmo just like WoW becauset that's where the money is, and yes it's pretty much copy paste WoW , tokens, hardmodes, cooldown on quick travel, mounts (why can you jump with a speeder / every vehicle in the game?) there are so many similarities in this game I've never seen anything like it. I am very dissappointed, I knew swtor would be a theme park mmo, but not this bad.

Originally posted by kb056

Originally posted by Lidane

As soon as you figure out the difference between investors buying and/or merging companies and the money directly invested in a single video game, then this conversation can happen. Whatever Elevation invested in Bioware and Pandemic as a whole would cover ALL of the games created by BOTH companies, along with the salaries and expenses of each studio. It's not all going to SWTOR.

Christ. No wonder these forums are filled with rumors and innuendo. People don't know how to read. 

 $300 MILLION!!

 

If you think all IP's of Bioware and Pandemic were worth $300 MILLION when the deal was made then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

They paid for SWTOR, simply as that.

 

Question is, will EA ever get thier money back?

So in 2005, Bioware IPs were:

Baldur's gate

Neverwinter Nights

Knights of the Old Republic.

All 3 are top notch RPG that were widely popular and sold like hotcakes.

Furthermore, Mass Effect was released in 2007, so it was in heavy development in 2005.

Yeah, I think those alone plus the promise of a new grand space opera from the kings of Computer RPG would be way more than 300 millions, without speaking anything of Pandemic.

Honestly, going from "they invested 300 millions into bioware" to "SW:TOR costed 300 millions" is a huuuuge stretch especially as the company was then acquired by EA and who knows what happened then.

I think the game has been in development for 5 years. 

Loud noises.

Well, since the OP doesn't want to provide anything to back up what he says, I figured I'd just leave these links here:

Hey! Here is a list of Elevation Partners investments I found:

• Bioware/Pandemic (11/3/2005) - Notice that this was their first investment ever. They had one failed attempt at investing in Eidos before this, but it didn't work out. 
• Forbes Media(August 2006) Yeah, they own about 40% of Forbes. Reported at around 300 million.
• Palm (6/4/2007) They purchased about 25% of palm. HP bought out Palm last year for 1.2 billion dollars. I'm sure they own part of HP now or at least got paid a lot of money, or however the hell that works.
• SDI Media Group (7/11/2007) From wikipedia cause I had no idea "the world's largest provider of subtitling and language dubbing service to the entertainment industry. Elevation purchased the company from Warburg Pincus, the private equity firm that acquired SDI Media in 2004."    
• "On October 11, 2007, it was announced that EA had negotiated a deal with Elevation to pay $860 million (USD) in order to acquire both Bioware and Pandemic Studios." - Wikipedia
• "On April 16, 2010 Elevation Partners acquired 1% of the company Facebook for $90 Million." - Wikipedia

• Fred Anderson - Former EVP and CFO of Apple
• Bret Pearlman - Former senior managing director of The Blackstone Group (Billions of dollars in assets)
• Marc Bodnick - a founding principal of Silver Lake Partners
• John Riccitiello - former president and COO of EA
• Roger McNamee - co-founder of Silver Lake Partners and integral Capital Partners
• Last but not least - Bono, from U2.  Huh?

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Originally posted by Dreamion

This is exatly how I feel about this game, it's a 2011/12 game and yet it's missing stuff that all other mmo's have, no combat log, macros, UI customization, why?

---

Because they decided for different approach.

Instead of focusing on delivering everything all other games have and making just another generic clone, they focused on creating unique MMO experience.

Whether you like this experience or not is up to each to consider, however there is little doubt that the game plays like nothing else on MMO market.

Originally posted by kb056

Originally posted by dubyahite
Where does that link say the game was in develolment for 7 years again?

The 300 million number was debunked many times. Please don't bring up EALouse anymore. He lied.

EA got a lot more out of Bioware than SWTOR for their money.

Mass effect and dragon age were huge sellers.

Bioware is easily worth that much money. Easily.

 ELEVATION PARTNERS INVESTED $300 MILLION INTO COMBINING BIOWARE AND PANDEMIC STUDIOS TO MAKE SWTOR!!

 

Are you illiterate?

No, how about you?

Originally posted by Dreamion

Originally posted by Siveria

Originally posted by Margulis

Originally posted by Siveria

All I can say is if this game had 7 years of dev time.. how the hell did this game turn out so generic and boring? Its missing basic mmorpg features even free to play titles with very small budgets have. To be the game feels like dragon age 2, a total rush job that was just pushed out asap. I honestly think anyone who subs to swtor is sort of throwing money away for a unfinished product. The game in its current state is not really worth a sub fee, I don't know if it ever will be with how the game is. With 7 years of dev time you'd expect a far better game than swtor ended up being.

If it truly started in development 7 years ago, that may explain why it seems so antiquated.  They probably decided on the wow model and graphic style way back at a point when a large portion of gamers weren't bored to tears with mmo after mmo following the generic theme park gameplay, and it seemed like a good idea to follow it.

Too bad SWTOR didn't come out 5 years ago, it would have been received much better in my opinion, plus probably would be much more successful.  Yes it will be successful, but this type of mmo coming out in 2012 basically is just a little too late to the party in my opinion

Yeah it is kinda way to late to the party themeparks are slowly dying out, even WoW has been steadly losing subs and interest from its playerbase. I also agree on the 5 years ago part, if the game did come out 5 years ago I probally would have loved it to death, I loved WoW way back when it first came out, I had the orignal game pre-ordered. Its gone downhill though with each expansion. SWToR is as you phrased it late to the party, was a bad move to release a generic themepark/wow clone when the themepark mmo is starting to die off.

Also to the people wowed by the server amount, You have to remember, the game just came out, they are all playing on their included free time with the game purchaise, After this free month I expect about 90% of the servers to have very few people on it and server merges will end up happening shortly after that, it happens in all theme park mmo's. Themepark mmo's with the exception of World of Warcraft don't have very long retention due to getting stale/boring quickly, swtor and most likely gw2 won't escape this if they using this formula. Only mmo on the horizon that interests me is phantasy star online 2, the rest look like the same generic garbage reskined. PSO2 sadly hasn't been confirmed for a US release yet, but I am sure it will, PSO has tons of fans outside of japan, probally more actually lol.

Themeparks aren't a bad subgenre of mmorpg's the problem is everyone keeps exactly copying wow in terms of classes, progression and feel. Combat in swtor to me was a slower more basic form of the combat in wow. Slower due to a higher global cooldown, that has lack of a decent targeting system, then again WoW does too. Best targeting system I seen was eq2, target the tank, anything helpful to a player is cast on the tank, anything that needs a enemy target will automatcally hit what the tank (or the player you have targeted) has targeted, this allowed healers to also throw out some offensive nukes easly without having to fumble with retargeting the tank like in WoW/Swtor.

This is exatly how I feel about this game, it's a 2011/12 game and yet it's missing stuff that all other mmo's have, no combat log, macros, UI customization, why? I don't know maybe because they spent 3/4 of their budget on voice acting, making everything else suffer. I'm not even playing on my level 50 consular right now because it's so god damn boring and sad to see this is what swtor is. EA probably told Bioware to make a mmo just like WoW becauset that's where the money is, and yes it's pretty much copy paste WoW , tokens, hardmodes, cooldown on quick travel, mounts (why can you jump with a speeder / every vehicle in the game?) there are so many similarities in this game I've never seen anything like it. I am very dissappointed, I knew swtor would be a theme park mmo, but not this bad.

Lolol, sorry to burst your bubble, but EQ1 had ALL of that 2 years before WoW was released. EQ1 is what everyone copies, know why? Because it has had so much success that they can still run the servers 12 years after launch day without worrying about subscriber numbers. EQ1 might as well be the creating diety of everything that you know and play today. Sure, SOE has failed at everything since they took over SWG, but EQ1 is the only success they ever needed.

All of you forget your roots. UO and EQ1. Oops, i forgot how many WoW kids were still in diapers back then, my bad.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Dreamion

This is exatly how I feel about this game, it's a 2011/12 game and yet it's missing stuff that all other mmo's have, no combat log, macros, UI customization, why?

---

 

Because they decided for different approach.

Instead of focusing on delivering everything all other games have and making just another generic clone, they focused on creating unique MMO experience.

Whether you like this experience or not is up to each to consider, however there is little doubt that the game plays like nothing else on MMO market.

But the game plays EXACTLY like everything else on the market... apart for when you're talking to an NPC.

Or were we playing differnet games?

---

Originally posted by sgel

But the game plays EXACTLY like everything else on the market... apart for when you're talking to an NPC.
Or were we playing differnet games?

---

No, it does not. While the frame is kept, no other MMO is so heavily focused on story.

You don't like it? Fair enough, no problem, move along.

To summarize; the original poster makes very questionable illogical train of thoughts to bash SWTOR?

Are these trolls getting desperate or something?

Then again, if facts doesn't support what you want it to, the only way is to make stuff up. ROFL.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by sgel

But the game plays EXACTLY like everything else on the market... apart for when you're talking to an NPC.
Or were we playing differnet games?

---

 

No, it does not. While the frame is kept, no other MMO is so heavily focused on story.

You don't like it? Fair enough, no problem, move along.

Agreed. I do not see any other MMOs offering such a fluid combat system as the one SWTOR has. I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that you can force push your target 30 meters back,  throw your lightsaber, then catch it mid-air as you're leaping to said target. I truly am sorry that you don't like that.

My character has a personality, that i can customize however i wish while i'm playing through the story. How much personality do your level 80's in WoW have? Oh, i'm sorry, i forgot that WoW doesn't give you ANY dialoge choices, at all.

Originally posted by Exort

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by sgel

But the game plays EXACTLY like everything else on the market... apart for when you're talking to an NPC.
Or were we playing differnet games?

---

 

No, it does not. While the frame is kept, no other MMO is so heavily focused on story.

You don't like it? Fair enough, no problem, move along.

Agreed. I do not see any other MMOs offering such a fluid combat system as the one SWTOR has. I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that you can force push your target 30 meters back,  throw your lightsaber, then catch it mid-air as you're leaping to said target. I truly am sorry that you don't like that.

 

My character has a personality, that i can customize however i wish while i'm playing through the story. How much personality do your level 80's in WoW have? Oh, i'm sorry, i forgot that WoW doesn't give you ANY dialoge choices, at all.

Fluid combat system?  One of the biggest issues right now is the ability delay and stuttering on skills at times - which even the devs have acknowledged as a problem.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by sgel

But the game plays EXACTLY like everything else on the market... apart for when you're talking to an NPC.
Or were we playing differnet games?

---

 

No, it does not. While the frame is kept, no other MMO is so heavily focused on story.

You don't like it? Fair enough, no problem, move along.

That's what he just said..........his comment about "apart from when you're talking to an npc" = the story aspect.  Beyond that, YES IT DOES play like everything else out there, give me a break.

Originally posted by Margulis

Originally posted by Exort

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by sgel

But the game plays EXACTLY like everything else on the market... apart for when you're talking to an NPC.
Or were we playing differnet games?

---

 

No, it does not. While the frame is kept, no other MMO is so heavily focused on story.

You don't like it? Fair enough, no problem, move along.

Agreed. I do not see any other MMOs offering such a fluid combat system as the one SWTOR has. I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that you can force push your target 30 meters back,  throw your lightsaber, then catch it mid-air as you're leaping to said target. I truly am sorry that you don't like that.

 

My character has a personality, that i can customize however i wish while i'm playing through the story. How much personality do your level 80's in WoW have? Oh, i'm sorry, i forgot that WoW doesn't give you ANY dialoge choices, at all.

Fluid combat system?  One of the biggest issues right now is the ability delay and stuttering on skills at times - which even the devs have acknowledged as a problem.

Yeah, the delay is there, but it does not interfere with the fluidity. Maybe it's just me, but the delay has never slowed me down or ruined a combo.

Originally posted by Margulis

 

Fluid combat system?  One of the biggest issues right now is the ability delay and stuttering on skills at times - which even the devs have acknowledged as a problem.

This post perfectly demonstrates why there is a difference between game designers and game developers.

The actual underlying system is perfectly sound. From a high level game design point of view, SWTOR's system are really well thoughtout.

Whether a particular incident needs to be ironed out or not is a game developer issue but it doesn't negate the fact that the system itself works.

It'll be like saying C++ API needs an overhaul because some program made by it has a bug.

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Originally posted by Margulis

That's what he just said..........his comment about "apart from when you're talking to an npc" = the story aspect.  Beyond that, YES IT DOES play like everything else out there, give me a break.

---

I never said nor implied they created whole new MMO core mechanics. I said that they were after creating unique MMO experience through heavy focus on story.

It was sgel twisting my words to argue a point I was not making.

Their approach does not work for you, it does not work for sgel, fine. Will you give us the break now?

The link in the OP had nothing, at all, to do with SWTOR.  That was a business situation that happened 7 years ago that head no relation to the game, or any specific game.  Bioware has put out many games before and since that investment.  

It is one thing for the OP to twist the facts to suit his needs, but how is it that so many other people commented as if what he was saying was true, regardless of the fact that SWTOR was never even mentioned?