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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Staff Roundtable Review

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Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 6

12/28/11 6:00:29 PM#201

Danny is right on the spot. The rest are soulless gamers.

An MMORPG automagically disqualifies from the 8/10 to 10/10 list as soon as it introduces instanced zones, seen in SWTOR and AoC alike. All immersion gone.

Furthermore, SWTOR is an obvious copy of WoW in many regards. Play Jedi Knight and see how many similarities the moves have with warriors in WoW. Check the skill tree itself, and realize how it is a carbon copy of how WoW skill trees work.

WoW is the better game still, because in WoW you have no instanced Zones, and because when you walk around in WoW questing, you can actually choose from various zones. ALL the gameworld is shared by both factions from the start. In SWTOR, the game-world is segregated between factions, instanced and very raillike, surrounding the player with mountains to auto-lead him to his quest. One could say, the game-world was tailored around quests, rather than placing quests into it.

SWTOR could have been so much more, but is barely mediocre the way it was executed. 

If you are a fan of star wars, then this game is alright for a few days of fun. But i cannot see how this game will last any longer than AoC unless it's late/engame (40+ level) is much different from what i've seen so far.

In AoC i remember the endgame consisting of running around in one zone at max level, trying to find people to kill, then switching instance in the same zone to find others. After 2 days if you kept doing this, you should consider yourself a nutcase.  

There is only one hope remaining. Darkfall v2.0  coming soon...



Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/05
Posts: 65

12/28/11 6:01:18 PM#202

I have played slowly since early release as I work full time and have a family.  My take thus far is it's a good substitute for wow since I had btdt.  I'm a star wars fan and have had great fun with the little collectibles I received such as the book, music cd, etc. That stuff really breathes star wars, i feel bad about throwing away the big box with the excellent art work.  However the game does mimic this same feeling imo.  I just feel like i'm doing a regular morg with better stories and cinematics (a good thing).  Not sure how they could make it more star warsy, maybe as my character levels it will change we'll see

beel Xfire Miniprofile

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/08
Posts: 65

12/28/11 6:16:42 PM#203

Way to Cowboy up DANNY!!!!! Your the only one invited over for the Super Bowl. Tell the rest of  you co-workers not to worry we will tape  the commercials and half time show for them.

Totally agree with your review. I was  wondering if anyone had the guts to give a  poor score and you did. I feel like someone just put an every lasting Gob stopper on my Desk. Get in the Elvator Danny Boy where going for a ride. lol.

Your My Boy Blue!!!!


Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1390


contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

12/28/11 6:19:30 PM#204
Originally posted by eric_w66

The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.


doesn't have to be something ENTIRELY NEW TO THE WHOLE GAMING world, just something that feels new to an MMORPG, which is what it is.  think in context here.   this kind of combat has been done in %99 of the 450 or so MMORPGs that exist.

doing ANY other kind of combat from ANY OTHER kind of game, even tho it is not entirely new to the WHOLE world, WOULD be new combined with an MMO.

just as full cinematics are nothing new TO THE ENTIRE WORLD of gaming, the fact they are integrated so fully in an MMO IS newish to most people, and what they are universally being praised for.

could have done the same with combat, and gotten similar praise for COMBAT too.  if they had fast paced FPS combat (for example, it could be ANY other kind of non-RPG (tab target, stand still and roll dice whack-a-mole on the hotbar) gameplay)... virtually nobody would be making that complaint.  sure, they'd have a whole host of OTHER compaints, but it  would not be called bland and unoriginal.   which it is.

context matters.  there's plenty off new combinations to be made out there,  EVEN if all the pieces already exist (and they actually DON'T).   people are just sick of getting the exact same recipe (with perhaps a new garnish) in every MMO dish thats being served to the public.

The End
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects


Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1390


contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

12/28/11 6:33:46 PM#205
Originally posted by eric_w66

Originally posted by StSynner

Originally posted by eric_w66



I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D


heh, so much wrong there.

The End
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects


Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/07
Posts: 88

12/28/11 7:10:41 PM#206


There is diffferent combat that has been used in the past in other games that wou8ld be a different pace.  except no one will repeat u8sing it.   heck skyrim has a great combat system and it's old.  if they added that type of combat system to an mmo i wou8ld be stoked. 


ON a side note it seems that these reviewers wou8ld give it a 7.5 or an 8 out the gate because it is starwars. wonder whenthat will wear off and they will give an honest review. 

Don't get me wrong i am  playing it too bu8t it is just not that great.  the story is nice  once i am done with that i am gone. 


Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 710

12/28/11 7:23:10 PM#207
Originally posted by Kaocan
Originally posted by Sector13
Originally posted by Kaocan

I have a request, in 6 months, if SW:TOR doesn't turnout to be the flop so many of you are predicting, can you please come back on here and appologize to those that are saying it is a great game? Just once I would love to see that happen.

Depends on your definition of a flop. Which I assume you are going by the 'to fail' definition. Even so, then what is your definition of fail?

As far as to be lacking then SWTOR has already failed which then means it flopped IMO. Now I am sure you mean in an overall general opinion but still, in the sense that failing means to decline for declining in subs then that means if subs drop below 1 mil subs then it is a flop since it would be declining in strength of subs.

Actually my definition is much simpler than all that. I am going by the specifics each person is stating on these very forums every day. If thier comments in 6 months are proven false, then why shouldnt' they have to come back and say they are sorry for being wrong. Really, that simple to me. On my end, the only thing I have said about SW:TOR is that I am have fun playing it, I'm sure in 6 months I will have still had fun playing it. A statement I'm sure not everyone here can say truthfully, that what they say here is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing ....... 

All I am asking for is if you, or anyone else, comes on these forums and tells everyone else something like 'SW:TOR will not last past 30 days' and it does...that they come back and admit they were wrong. Not really something that should be difficult right? Sure we all have the rigth to voice our opinions, but shouldn't we be held accountable for doing exactly that?

Oh and to your opinion that it has already failed, well I already posted this link at least once before, but I'll post it again.

Doesn't look like a failure to me, and from the statistics on this news article, and the fact the game has been live what 7 days or so at this point, doesn't look like the rest of the people playing it think it is a failure too. We will see though, those 105 industry awards that were given out could all be total rubish, all those hours of time played by all those people, that were having fun, well they could all be crazy too. You willing to put your reputation on the line to say otherwise?

The problem with your 'going by the specifics each people is stating' is that not everyone has the same definition of what it is to fail or flop. Of course, you completely miss my point of what my opinion of what to fail means, which is to not meet up to my expectation and be lacking. That doesn't mean that everyone will view it as such but that is a true defintion of the word and thus to me means it is a flop. You can put up pointless statistics based on the activity of the most active period of a games lifespan but those facts are only meant for amusment and not actual data to be used to judge the game.

So, technically, you can claim that people should have to come and apoligize but anyone with half a brain would be able to twist something and still call it a flop. Again, like I stated before, for SWTOR to be a 'flop' alls it has to do is drop numbers below its assumed sub numbers at start. So, if by Jan 21st there is only 900k subs, then by definition it is still a flop even though it could still turn out to be successful eventually.

Thus, if you want to do something like this, you would have to lay down harder criteria then just if it flops or goes under completely which wouldn't happen anyway. for something like this to even be taken seriously.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 485

12/28/11 7:25:49 PM#208

Having a BALL!!!!  This game has exceeded every expectation that I had.

Downside? Queue's...which by WoW''s original launch standards are miniscule (I've yet to see a queue exceed 300 (avg 150) while starting in WoW when it first launch I rerolled due to being placed 2000+ in queue.)

The staff are quick to get back to you, there's plenty to do and I've yet to get the "I'm sleepy, gonny imprint QWERTY on my forehead" feel. 

Can't get enough!!!!!


Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/08
Posts: 71

12/28/11 7:28:50 PM#209

"In short, SWTOR is great for Star Wars fans, but mediocre for everyone else."


Gonna have to disagree strongly there. I was never interested in Star Wars. I watched the original trilogy for the first time last week. Even with having no interested in Star Wars, I fell in love with this game. Being a Star Wars fan has nothing to do with whether you love or hate this game.

  User Deleted
12/28/11 7:46:54 PM#210

I was surprised none of the official reviews found anywhere on the internet or found here on this site talk about the instancing.

While I do believe the game is very good and I've been enjoying it, I do not consider it an MMO. This game could have been a four player (drop in drop out) coop game if it wanted to.

If Bioware will drop their claim that this game is an MMO with thousands of players all playing in the same game world at once then I will gladly drop any complaints with this regard.

This claim hurts real MMOs who work hard to provide an actual game world with thousands of players in it playing all at once. Be honest and tell the truth, Bioware. If you are a gamer you should support the game but do not support SW:TOR's claim as an "MMO."

Support real MMOs, friends.

Remember how a decade ago, how inspired a real MMO virtual game world was to people? The Matrix is a movie that came out in 1999. Remember Tron? Those movies either inspired or were inspired by that dream. That dream will die as long as imitation MMOs are able to pretend that they are real MMOs.

With that said, SWTOR is a very good game. I'm enjoying playing it, and support the game otherwise.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/09
Posts: 804

12/28/11 8:32:26 PM#211
I think Danny W. is spot on with the review. Bioware didn't bring anything new to the mmorpg genre except making everything voiced. It's good for what it is, but coming from bioware I was hoping for a bit of a change from the norm in the mmorpg genre. I still am playing it but probably will leave once GW2 releases.
  User Deleted
12/28/11 8:53:36 PM#212

Originally posted by docwalker

11 Days to max out a toon..... How refreshing will that be in a few months?....

Nothing new about the combat at all. Sometimes I think these boards are full of paid posters... btw it does happen, "Don't Believe The Hype" this does seem to sum up the game quite well.


Thats 11 days for someone playing a stupid number of hours a day. Most people who have jobs will take a month or two to get a character to max level, the experience slows down about level 30.

I cant think of the last time it took me more than a few days to get up a character on another (non F2P or korean) MMO. Last time I leveled a character on Everquest 2 it took 6 hours, yet you dont see people complaining that EQ2 has no longevitiy? WoW took about 3 days when Goblins came out. How long has that game been going now?

End game is far more important than levelling for a MMO. If all it took to get bored of a character was getting to max level, then I would have played most MMOs for less than a month.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/11
Posts: 232

12/28/11 8:56:32 PM#213
I don't think 11 days is only for the people who go fast since they did it in 59 hours

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 16

12/28/11 9:54:55 PM#214

I wonder how long people are going to put up with this rehashed combat system until they get sick of it stop buying these trash games.  It might be the most immersive world in the genre, with the greatest story, using a new, beautiful engine, but if I'm going to spend 50% of my time in game doing something, I want it to be something I haven't already spent thousands of hours doing.  TERA might look like trash and be a grind-fest, but at least during that grind I'll be doing something remotely enjoyable. 

This game wouldn't survive 2 months without the Star Wars license....oh that's right, BioWare fanboys, who think a company that's never made an MMO before can do no wrong; I guess I'd give it 3 months. 


Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/11
Posts: 76

12/28/11 10:21:20 PM#215

I have two things to note about why I have come to dislike games like these.

1. Same old tab targeting combat with no ability to dodge projectiles.. What age are we in again?

2. All about the endgame pvp. Not everyone wants to pvp you know right?..

Until big companies like Bioware can get smart about actually making games that "won't be forgotton", instead of games that "do just enough to make good money", I will continue to not give a damn about the MMO industry. Nothing new means time and money just wasted.

  User Deleted
12/28/11 10:29:42 PM#216

Shocking that they all except 1 gave it an 8 and above. The mmorpg genre is so desperate for a winner they will give almost anything a good score these days. TOR is so yesterdays's news and we have played this type of mmo a billion times over and then some.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 1929

12/28/11 10:37:23 PM#217

So this gets a 9/10 from reviewers


^ You want people to invest in that? People then question why most of us think you guys are paid off and crooked?


Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 710

12/28/11 10:49:40 PM#218
Originally posted by Puremallace

So this gets a 9/10 from reviewers

^ You want people to invest in that? People then question why most of us think you guys are paid off and crooked?

Exploitable PvP? Man, this game has won me over cause I assumed I would have had to actually work for something. Subbing ... lol.



Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 2220

Posts deleted: 12589457

12/28/11 11:10:29 PM#219
Originally posted by Puremallace

So this gets a 9/10 from reviewers


^ You want people to invest in that? People then question why most of us think you guys are paid off and crooked?

To be fair, Pure...just recently they also closed both eyes on the many flaws of Rift when it was big on this page. There wasn't a patch that didn't require several hotfixes and barely any new feature worked out of the box. But in their daily coverage there was NEVER anything mentioned about all that - just bias and people screamed at them for that.

It's not just SWTOR, whatever is the new big dog always gets 8+ scores from the staff...i've seen it first when King Conan took over the page years ago and it happened since then with every other blockbuster.


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Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

12/29/11 12:24:50 AM#220

Great entry Danny.  As for you others, not so much.  Caught up in the novelty are we? 


Well once that wears off, and it will, please tell us what you think then.  Im not saying Swtor necessarily deserves a 6/10 but it sure as hell doesnt get a 9/10 either.  Come on.  Really?  Now if you time warped from 2003 or so, then fine.  But none of you have. 


Swtor is fun to be had.  But no its not absolutely amazing.  If this didnt have the Star Wars label on it, or it wasnt based on that franchise but was somehow the same game, none of you would rate it that high whether you know it or not.  Im glad at least one of you seems to understand that. 


Eventually almost everyone will probably come around to what Im saying.  But its going to take a few months (maybe only two) for most folks to get around to that sad fact.  Swtor isnt bad.  Its not necessarily good either and it sure as hell isnt "great", or "amazing".  If you think that you are either way too caught up in the genre or the IP itself (likely), you're caught up in the novelty of playing a new mmo that functions very similarly to others making it easy to play (Very likely), or you havent really gamed much since the turn on the millenium. 

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