Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by precious328

 

The game has no retention.

 

You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks.  The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it.  How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.  

 

 

Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.

But seriously...    when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.

The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.

 

This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.

The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell. {mod edit}

 

So because I'd actually like to interact with other players outside of tiny raids and instanced PvP makes me a bitter ex-SWG fan?

You don't get it. But you will.

SWTOR suffers from a major problem, and that is that it lacks many features that SWG had before it died (and many of those features are better in the memory than they were in reality).

For Example:

1. Extensive space combat with customization: Easily the most custamizeable space combat I've seen.  Eve cannot compare (point and click navigation vs. real joystick combat) and TOR's on rails combat is a sad followup.  Sure, it's Star Fox fun, but if I wanted that, I'd play Star Fox...and I don't as I never cared for that kind of game.

2. Sandbox: Massive empty planets (as mentioned), the ability to have player cities, decorated player houses, etc.  I'm talking classic SWG here, not after they released every "flavor" house.  Sure, seeing a city of the same style was boring, but it wasn't the eyesore of seeing random ATATs, sand walkers, Correllian Transports and the like.

2a. Player bases: some of the most fun I had in SWG was fighting for/destroying player PVP bases.  Sure I was a noob who got one shotted, but it was still fun.

3.  Invasions: one of the good additions after the deathblow to SWG.  Capital cities on several planets would be owned by one faction, and then attacked by another.  You had a limited time to build defenses, then the battle commenced.  There were quests and objectives for all player types, including crafters and entertainers.  Only was boring if you were an underlevelled combat player or if not enough people showed up to the party.  While I was still playing the latter only happend a couple times to Bestine, but the other planets had some issues with it on my server.

Things I cannot talk about as I haven't had experience with them, but will probably be compared/contrasted/complained about:

Crafting: I know its different, that's about all I know about it.  Hard to follow SWG's extensively complex crafting system though.

Companions: SWG had Craftable/tameable (by Creature Handler) pets, but the companion system is central to SWTOR.

Is SWTOR good?  Don't know; I haven't played it.  I'm waiting to play it until about the seven month mark to see how popular it remains.  The worst part about SWG's death was the depopulated servers, which makes any MMO awful.  One of the reasons WOW is still big is that a lot of people play WoW (sounds like an obvious statement, but there's a certain size of population needed for a game to remain succesful and draw more people in).

-VG

Originally posted by Jarazar

Originally posted by precious328

 

The game has no retention.

I am starting to think you don't like the game...

 

Everyone playing on my server is totally addicted to the game "right now". I am not going to tell you that I won't lose interest when I get to end game, because I know nothing about it yet. But it's Bioware, so I am not too worried.

it's more mythic than the Bioware that made the name mean something in the first place. this isn't the same group who brought us BG, NWN and KOTOR. not even the same group that brought use DAO and ME. bsaically EA is throwing the name Bioware over numerous studios which is why people seem to think that Bioware is making the new C&C.

not "hating", just saying there might be cause to worry. i can't really be reassured knowing that this isn't a product of the Bioware that we think of when we hear the name.

KOTOR, Mass Effect, and DA games haven't let me down in terms of games and sequels/expansions (although a few of the DLC weren't up to par), so I have a lot of faith in SWTOR at this point.

That said, given the extensive budget and time spent on cutscenes and VO for the game, I do concur with the OPs concern about generating ongoing faction-specific content. Generic content isn't bad - it can be fun, challenging, and rewarding, but it is the specific storyline that makes the experience of TOR so much better than other MMOs to me.

They may have to revert to generic content updates, interlaced with major expansions.  It seems like it would be an overwhelming task, and asking a lot of them, to expect them to put out that much content that is fully voiced over all the time.   I do not see anything wrong with that.    With that said, Bioware shot themselves in the foot prematurely. 

What do I mean when I say that?   Because anything they do now sans VO will be looked at as lazy and it might upset the player base.  

Bioware could alliviate some of this by simply adding content that can engage the players to participate in it as a community.   Stuff revolving around the Jedi vs Sith background story.    I mean the Star Wars IP dropped this golden opportunity right into their lap and I fear that Bioware will not take advantage of that more than anything.  

Also, I personally think that Bioware should have done what Blizzard did with certain areas of their game using phasing, so that when a player does something sifnificant that changes the area it shows up.   Though I know many people hate phasing, it is because Blizzard failed to implement it properly and allow higher level players to return to the area prior to it being phased to help fellow guildies or people in quest.   That was the one thing that hurt using phasing.  Bioware could have done this to say...hmmm...what's that planets name where the trooper starts?  I don't remember I think it was Ord Mandel, anyway, there is a good example of where phasing could have been used.   Instead of it staying the same despite the story saying otherwise, the player would see that they did have an impact on the game.   I loved the Vanguard and Crusader areas of Northrend.  When a player quested through the area and completed task the whole zone slowly changed as you defeated and pushed back the Lich Kings forces.   That was cool.    Bioware should be doing that as well.

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by precious328

 

The game has no retention.

 

You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks.  The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it.  How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.  

 

 

Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.

But seriously...    when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.

The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.

 

This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.

The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell. {mod edit}

 

So because I'd actually like to interact with other players outside of tiny raids and instanced PvP makes me a bitter ex-SWG fan?

You don't get it. But you will.

The joke is on you, kid. Spew more of your negative attitude, it is enjoyable to read.  And I would take a huge bet on atleast half of the negative attitudes(such as yourself) on mmorpg.com are ex-swg vets, people who never planned to buy SWTOR.

Apparently, you do not get it. But in time, maybe you will grow up.

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by precious328

 

The game has no retention.

 

You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks.  The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it.  How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.  

 

 

Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.

But seriously...    when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.

The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.

 

This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.

The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell.  {mod edit}

They don't have to turn it into a sandbox game.  They could just add game content that adds more depth to the game.   There is a way to do that without turning SWTOR into a sandbox.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by precious328

 

The game has no retention.

 

You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks.  The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it.  How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.  

 

 

Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.

But seriously...    when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.

The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.

 

This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.

The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell.  {mod edit}

They don't have to turn it into a sandbox game.  They could just add game content that adds more depth to the game.   There is a way to do that without turning SWTOR into a sandbox.

I agree with almost everything you post, including this. I am not against sandboxing, I actually love it. but you can't compare sandbox to themepark, it's two different beasts.  I would love to see some sandbox ideas implemented that would work with the SWTOR game, but creating massive open worlds with nothing on them is not the answer.

Originally posted by Talin

KOTOR, Mass Effect, and DA games haven't let me down in terms of games and sequels/expansions (although a few of the DLC weren't up to par), so I have a lot of faith in SWTOR at this point.

Dragon Age: Origins  - 2009

Dragon Age II - March 10, 2011

If you think for a cold chance in hell mmo players are willing to wait that long for content updates you guys have another thing coming. Bioware is in for a rude awakening when SOME people even thought Trions schedule was slow.

Bioware has 2-3 months at most before people start raging hard for new content.

Originally posted by precious328

Once the story comes to an end, which it clearly will, there will probably be a fairly large exodus. Outside of sassy pvp types and a small raiding system, SWTOR doesn't offer anything new.

 

Future content? We all know that any added quests and story will be completed within 1-2 days.

 

The game has no retention.

 

absolutely and then there comes the aspect of the fail sub only mmo model that makes people wait at least 6 months before any MAJOR expansion is released. People will be leaving soon i am sure.

More story is coming. There are currently 3 acts in the game. There are plans to add more.  They have the repeatable character voice actors on contract and are writing content at least 6 months in advance of when it's needed.  Next month they are adding a new flashpoint, planet and raid.  

The content is coming and it's coming fast.   They kept the entire dev team after the game launched when most other MMO's layoff after launch.  They are commited to releasing content quickly.

And while at it's very base it's similar to lots of MMO's there is also so much more going for it.  And anyone that's played for any length of time would see that.





If even at the end the story stops and you are left with raids, pvp and flashpoints, well, many other MMO's do well with just that and still don't have the options of gameplay and customization that SWTOR has.

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by precious328

 

The game has no retention.

 

You have no idea what type of retention the game has, since it's only been out a couple of weeks.  The majority of people playing the game currently LOVE it.  How long that love lasts will depend on what BW does regarding meaningful content releases, but to say the game doesn't have any retention at this early stage is pretty misinformed.  

 

 

Of course people are going to love it at first. In fact, I was quick to dub this game as the best MMO ever made.

But seriously...    when the story ends, the game is no different than every other WoW-clone.

The game really is WoW with lightsabers - but with an EXTREMELY entertaining leveling process.

 

This game would've been a home run if it had included social elements, e.g., baren planets where people could build etc. I mean... anything. Instanced PvP and small raids will only take them so far. This is where they will realize their failures.

The truth comes out. Behind every SWTOR troll, there is a hidden agenda. Bioware never had any plans to make this a sandbox game, and what you just described was sandbox in a nutshell. {mod edit}

 

So because I'd actually like to interact with other players outside of tiny raids and instanced PvP makes me a bitter ex-SWG fan?

You don't get it. But you will.

The joke is on you, kid. Spew more of your negative attitude, it is enjoyable to read.  And I would take a huge bet on atleast half of the negative attitudes(such as yourself) on mmorpg.com are ex-swg vets, people who never planned to buy SWTOR.

 

Apparently, you do not get it. But in time, maybe you will grow up.

 

I did buy the game. Are you capable of reading more than the first two lines of text?

The game is fun. But aftering experience the PvP of SWTOR, it's going to get boring come end game. Too boring to be worth a subscription payment, IMO.

Grow up? I did. That's why I yearn for complexity in my games. Perhaps you should grow up and stop dishing out cash for the same old hand-holding epidemic.

sadly the further you go toward end game the more wtered the story get after a while you wonder ?what the?

Originally posted by Teala

They may have to revert to generic content updates, interlaced with major expansions.  It seems like it would be an overwhelming task, and asking a lot of them, to expect them to put out that much content that is fully voiced over all the time.   I do not see anything wrong with that.    With that said, Bioware shot themselves in the foot prematurely. 

What do I mean when I say that?   Because anything they do now sans VO will be looked at as lazy and it might upset the player base.  

Bioware could alliviate some of this by simply adding content that can engage the players to participate in it as a community.   Stuff revolving around the Jedi vs Sith background story.    I mean the Star Wars IP dropped this golden opportunity right into their lap and I fear that Bioware will not take advantage of that more than anything.  

Also, I personally think that Bioware should have done what Blizzard did with certain areas of their game using phasing, so that when a player does something sifnificant that changes the area it shows up.   Though I know many people hate phasing, it is because Blizzard failed to implement it properly and allow higher level players to return to the area prior to it being phased to help fellow guildies or people in quest.   That was the one thing that hurt using phasing.  Bioware could have done this to say...hmmm...what's that planets name where the trooper starts?  I don't remember I think it was Ord Mandel, anyway, there is a good example of where phasing could have been used.   Instead of it staying the same despite the story saying otherwise, the player would see that they did have an impact on the game.   I loved the Vanguard and Crusader areas of Northrend.  When a player quested through the area and completed task the whole zone slowly changed as you defeated and pushed back the Lich Kings forces.   That was cool.    Bioware should be doing that as well.

I tend to agree here.

It does seem a monumantal task to keep the VO quality AND publish stuff fast. But, we gonna see.

Also, yes I too like well placed phasing. Seeing actual changes as results of your doings in WOW just was VERY cool. I never understood why people complained "oh but *I* can't see that". So what? Lets say if a chapter end, some things could and maybe should change in the world. Thats a huge steps of levels; I am level 30 with my Jedi and STILL in chapter 1. I think after a huge story conclusion, some phases could change, and as Teala said, probably the starter planets.

How are they going to maintain the "Bioware Experience" since they didn't have it in the first place i don't know...

I think it's gamers themselves who are shooting themselves in the foot. More games are being released than ever and now there are MMOs that are continually releasing content and new DLC to extend the original content of games. This is so much more to do then when I was growing up and would only get a few games in a whole year and play them over and over.

When gamers take a week off and play a game for 80 hours within that first week then immediately begin screaming for more, they make it impossible for gaming companies (and regular people) to keep up with their insane demands for content and also produce high-quality content.

I am mystified how people have hit level cap on this game already and still have a life. Between work, holidays spending time with family, preparing for holidays, chores, social life, etc. etc. I have barely had time to get some characters to level 10. And guess what? I am having a great time in the game and not worried at all about the pace of future content because I know I will have plenty of play time ahead of me before I bump up against the wall of having nothing to do anymore. And so far, I have always seen other people around my same level doing stuff and have easily been able to find groups, so I know that not everyone is running around at level cap already. I am guessing this MMO may be a better fit for the casual gamer of the type that WoW attracts, who will level slower and take more time to enjoy the story along the way. Hardcore gamers/speedlevelers will probably find that this is not the best game for them, due to the time requirements for releasing substantial content. That's not Bioware's fault - they are not obligated to make games for every type of gamer, they make games for the people who will appreciate their style of game.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Talin

KOTOR, Mass Effect, and DA games haven't let me down in terms of games and sequels/expansions (although a few of the DLC weren't up to par), so I have a lot of faith in SWTOR at this point.

Dragon Age: Origins  - 2009

Dragon Age II - March 10, 2011

 

If you think for a cold chance in hell mmo players are willing to wait that long for content updates you guys have another thing coming. Bioware is in for a rude awakening when SOME people even thought Trions schedule was slow.

 

Bioware has 2-3 months at most before people start raging hard for new content.

 

I agree that bioware really need to keep the updates coming to keep subs.. and i doubt they can do it it. But your post here is pretty ignorant, you're totally ignoring these add-ons:

Dragon Age: Origins - Return to Ostagar (Jan 13th 2010)

Dragon Age: Origins - Darkspawn Chronicles (May 18th 2010)

Dragon Age: Origins - Leliana's Song (July 6th 2010)

Dragon Age: Origins - Golems of Amgarrak (Aug 10th 2010)

Dragon Age: Origins - Witch Hunt (Sep 7th 2010)

AND a stand alone expansion:

Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening (March 16th 2010)