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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Staff Roundtable Review

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284 posts found
  eric_w66

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1009

12/28/11 11:08:06 AM#141

You know, card games really haven't improved over the last hundred years. The graphics are sub-par, the cards are still paper, and they haven't added a new number or face card in ages!


Chess.... wow, how stale and boring a game. The rules haven't changed in ages! The pieces, well, you can't upgrade them easily, and you have to buy a new set if you want to do that anyways. The board... omg.. The same 8x8 layout ALWAYS. No one dares to be different. Pawns should be able to attack to the front as well as diagonally!


...


 


  wizyy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/05
Posts: 636

12/28/11 11:13:01 AM#142
Originally posted by eric_w66

You know, card games really haven't improved over the last hundred years. The graphics are sub-par, the cards are still paper, and they haven't added a new number or face card in ages!


Chess.... wow, how stale and boring a game. The rules haven't changed in ages! The pieces, well, you can't upgrade them easily, and you have to buy a new set if you want to do that anyways. The board... omg.. The same 8x8 layout ALWAYS. No one dares to be different. Pawns should be able to attack to the front as well as diagonally!


...


 

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Video games industry has been EVOLVING along with the times. Might as well compare SWTOR with PONG.

  onehunerdper

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/07
Posts: 851

eh.

12/28/11 11:25:09 AM#143

Originally posted by wizyy


Originally posted by eric_w66


You know, card games really haven't improved over the last hundred years. The graphics are sub-par, the cards are still paper, and they haven't added a new number or face card in ages!




Chess.... wow, how stale and boring a game. The rules haven't changed in ages! The pieces, well, you can't upgrade them easily, and you have to buy a new set if you want to do that anyways. The board... omg.. The same 8x8 layout ALWAYS. No one dares to be different. Pawns should be able to attack to the front as well as diagonally!




...




 



You're comparing apples and oranges.


Video games industry has been EVOLVING along with the times. Might as well compare SWTOR with PONG.



 


What he said.  You'll also note that Chess isn't exactly the most widespread, uber popular game, nor does it have a mainstream following.  Of course if we're talking board games there have been a ton of improments over the years with new innovative games springing up that have kept that genre alive. 


As far as card games go, some of them have gone digital, but there's only so much you can do on paper 2d products.  Didn't YuGIOh or whatever move to some sort of digital handheld device on a stage thing or something? Also look at the different games and strategies for the card game industry.  Texas Hold'em is an excellent example, a relatively new game built on a centuries old medium, with completely different play strategies and rules.  Also you'll note the massive amount of online poker games, with things to buy, avatars, and such.  So to say that either of your examples fit into a tired or non evolving genre is ignorant.



  eric_w66

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1009

12/28/11 11:29:29 AM#144

You can compare Pong to SWTOR. Are they fun? Yes, pong is fun. SWTOR is fun. Which has more variety? SWTOR. Does that make Pong any less fun? No.


And note, video games are "evolving" not "revolutionizing". I've played with game mechanics like these since 1991 (MUD's). The ONLY thing that has changed is graphics and sound.


  User Deleted
12/28/11 11:34:36 AM#145
Originally posted by onehunerdper
Originally posted by Happyguy83
Originally posted by onehunerdper

.These games have gotten stale. 

Has it ever occurded to you that there is nothing wrong with this genre and its just you who got burned out?

 

The ideas you listed is shit I ramble about while drunk when thinking of an awesome game with my friends. Whats worse is that you expect all of these things to be in games and without them they arn't that great.

LOL, wow really? If you don't think the genre has become stale you must be pretty easily entertained. 

No I just know a good game when I play one and the only good MMOs out would be GW, WoW and TOR (maybe RIFT) everything else is absolute shit and not really worth my time.

 

Even if starility was a problem for you there are a shit ton of other MMOs for you to play that have a lot of thing that you are asking for.

 

And no I don't think the genre is stale, I think the people who have been playing to same sort of games for 15 years are going to get just a tiny bit burned out.

  eric_w66

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1009

12/28/11 11:35:54 AM#146
Please note, we're talking about the combat mechanics being "unoriginal and bland". Not how pretty they look. Presentation (video poker etc) doesn't change how the game mechanics work. Texas Hold 'Em has been around for a long time btw. I have an ancient book of card games and it's in it (in several flavors). Apparently, it was created in Texas in the early 1900's (Wiki I know I know).

Anyways, the gameplay mechanics of combat in MMO's comes in two flavors: the old mud style (which visually is "Tab targetting") and the FPS style (aimed). Aimed wasn't possible in text-based MUD's, for obvious reasons. So yes, presentation can allow new mechanics. But we've not had a change in presentation since Meridian 59. UO was 2D, and more MUD-like. So, the "unoriginal and bland" comment about combat can be said about every MMO since Meridian 59 and whichever MMO first used the FPS style (which not everyone likes).
  Shadanwolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1896

12/28/11 11:51:26 AM#147

FOR ME.....the game is not there yet. I want a game that offers great pve...great crafting and great faction conflict. I would say the game has the pve and crafting. The faction conflict(persistent world 24/7   just isn't there yet.The conflict is my motivation to build a great character...craft...and really immerse myself.And so....I wait....and watch.....and hope.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7274

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

12/28/11 11:56:57 AM#148
Originally posted by onehunerdper
Originally posted by Happyguy83
Originally posted by onehunerdper

.These games have gotten stale. 

Has it ever occurded to you that there is nothing wrong with this genre and its just you who got burned out?

 

The ideas you listed is shit I ramble about while drunk when thinking of an awesome game with my friends. Whats worse is that you expect all of these things to be in games and without them they arn't that great.

LOL, wow really? If you don't think the genre has become stale you must be pretty easily entertained.  It's been almost 15 years and the only thing that has really improved dramtically are the graphics...and they're still sub-par, but that's due to limitations on the size usually.

 

I didn't say it needed all of them, I said there needs to be more and new things and listed a few, maybe if you'd stop flaming and being so prejudice against anyone who doesn't salivate over the same crap dressed up a different way you could read what I posted rationally.

 

Theres nothing wrong with being "easily entertained"... if you've ever played an FPS game.. congratulations, you've played the single most repeated, generic combat style in the genre, rehashed and re-edited for mass enjoyment.   

 

Being able to play a game and enjoy it has nothing to do with being "simple minded" or liking something thats "dumbed down" or anything... all it requires is being able to enjoy something fun without the propaganda, stigma and bullshit people seem to want to impress on these games they "don't like"  that most of them have - never tried - all for the sake of keeping a *reputation* of being so amazing, hardcore, and "true to the genre".    

 

People like to say this game is the same crap - but - it has lightsabers, and voiceovers, and companions and.. etcetera...  well... that isn't the same,  it actually is quite engrossing, entertaining, and enjoyable if people could get out of their head and see things plainly.  You don't have to like every game you play,  but you'd think people who have played games before, especially very poorly made games,  could easily tell how far above them SWTOR is....    Unfortunately, all we have are theorists trying to decry everything while blindly waiting for their next disappointment.  Thats no way to live.

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1426

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

12/28/11 12:01:23 PM#149
Originally posted by eric_w66
Please note, we're talking about the combat mechanics being "unoriginal and bland". Not how pretty they look. Presentation (video poker etc) doesn't change how the game mechanics work. Texas Hold 'Em has been around for a long time btw. I have an ancient book of card games and it's in it (in several flavors). Apparently, it was created in Texas in the early 1900's (Wiki I know I know).

Anyways, the gameplay mechanics of combat in MMO's comes in two flavors: the old mud style (which visually is "Tab targetting") and the FPS style (aimed). Aimed wasn't possible in text-based MUD's, for obvious reasons. So yes, presentation can allow new mechanics. But we've not had a change in presentation since Meridian 59. UO was 2D, and more MUD-like. So, the "unoriginal and bland" comment about combat can be said about every MMO since Meridian 59 and whichever MMO first used the FPS style (which not everyone likes).

 I laugh at some peoples attempts to prove points with bad analogies. It's still apples and oranges. Cards and card games may not have evolved, but we don't expect them to nor do they have competition competing for your dollars so they don't have to while videogames do. Since TOR chose to have a sub model, isn't it expected that people will want more than the same things that are out there?

While I disagree with the reviews, I do agree with some of the comments made in the review and can understand how they came to them. I also think the scores are high when basing them off of the words in the review. It's almost like they hung the scores on polish and story alone and not overall gameplay. To me it seems like a polished shell of a game that should have been a B2P seing as how it is really just KOTOR 3. Game is probably worth the money for a play through to see the story but I anticipate the new car smell to wear off very fast.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Isane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2698

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

12/28/11 12:01:49 PM#150

Originally posted by DarkPony

Poor Danny Wojcicki, the sacrificial lamb to appease the detractors? :)




Great to read all your impressions though. I can only echo most of them.




 





 




Not sacrificial at all but their views overall are representative in general. Which is a massive plus for SWTOR...


Remember most people who visit this site are the dissalusioned i.e the majority here which is not representative of the real world, or people who want a laugh and come to view the opinions of the deluded and laugh.


________________________________________________________
SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

  Isane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2698

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

12/28/11 12:17:14 PM#151

Originally posted by PyrateLV




Originally posted by Agricola1




Agree with you guys except for the grinch Danny Wojcicki, I think the rest of the MMORPG.com staff need to gang up and shove the coffee machine up his backside then order a double exspresso! I bet he rolled on a PvP server as republic and got raped as soon as he hit tatooine then uninstalled and sat with an upset face all Christmas in the dark listening to Leonard Cohen records!







 




LOL Danny Wojcicki is the ONLY one that at least has an non-bias opinion. Everyone else is a Fanbot. Any "professional" reviewer that gave SWTOR anything beyond a 7 should just stop reviewing games because its obvious where your loyalty lies (in the pocket of whatever Dev Company has the newest shiney game out).





 


In comparrison to other MMOs out there at the moment it deserves the scores. This is nothing more than a well implemented MMO; with more content and depth RPG wise that near any MMO has had to date.


Rate it down as much as you see fit but at least baseline it against something. Danny Rating it 6 is fine as long as other games " " are rated at 4...


________________________________________________________
SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

  alexmino

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/11
Posts: 134

12/28/11 12:17:54 PM#152

OMg i can't beleive you are rating this game higher than GW2!?!?!?!


  bestever

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 613

12/28/11 12:32:19 PM#153

Agree with danny. The only one with some brains that doesn't let the mask fool him.


  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

12/28/11 12:33:46 PM#154
Originally posted by Timacek

I support Danny Wojcicki.


we'll all see just how much staying power the game has over the next few months

If we are supporting Danny, on his finding a new occupation, I am all for it. Comes across as a sandbox fan, rather than giving a somewhat unbiased opinion. The game isnt some buggy POS ala SWG, there is plenty of content, the world is amazing, and the VO knocks it our of the park.

 

I like the way Game Informer magazine has their grading scale laid out. A 7 is your average game, with the intervals of a half point. About 1 to 2 games a yr make a 10 rating. Saying this game rates a 6 is a joke. It belongs somewhere in the 8 to 9 range according to the criteria used by GI.

 

I would give it an 11 out of 10, as after 5 yrs, it got me to playing MMOs again. Yes that is 11. :)

 

Then again, I know I am a fanboy, and in reality the game belongs in the 8 to 9 range as I stated prior.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  bestever

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 613

12/28/11 12:37:41 PM#155

Originally posted by onehunerdper

No offense, I love Star Wars, but this game is on the level of Rift.  It's not really anything new.  It looks great, the story is amazing, but then what? A successful MMO is built on endgame.  Nothing that Bioware sells this game on will stay fresh and exciting after you've done the engame over and over again.  I see this going the way of Rift and DC Universe, great looking game, will probably get a lot of converts, but will sputter for years on the hopes and dreams of Star Wars fans and those bored with every other tired game on the market.  Then every time there's a "new" game a little chunk of it's player base will leave for greener pastures. 




Hopefully some truly revolutionary game will come along that lets you actually do epic things. I mean come on there are lots of things to add and combine all together for an epic feel:




Moving combat, aimed attacks, epic quests for actual prestige, player housing, player built cities that can be destoryed, in game wars on massive NPC scales that effect land control, not having everything instanced, single server gaming, guild cities, player run governments, environemnts being changed by the decisions of the faction, no dragons, acts of God (tornadoes, wild fires, hurricanes), flucuating animal populations actually affected by player hunting, crafting actually effecting the strength of your side, evolving tactics, smarter AI, heck even human controlled AI, unrestricted skill trees, npc organizations that evolve with the territory, non static NPC involment for Christ sake, single completion quests for in game stats, rotating exploration discoveries, world mysteries that evolve (Google exists, why don't we try and change things up so people can't just google it), naval warfare, actual space combat, planetary invasions, land sea and air co-ops, environmental faction bonuses, game changing events on a massive scale, fast travel that makes sense and actually requires important objects or costs something, so much content, so well done, that you don't need a mount, non static NPC movements, better damage to death ratios (I mean really 20 strikes with a lightsaber or blaster on a Jawa/animal?!), and on and on and on.




I mean these aren't all good ideas but in some form or fashion to some degree something needs to be done. These games have gotten stale.  I don't have all the answers but I wish someone at these freaking companies with millions of dollars would try something new and do it well instead of the safe plays we've been handed and everyone saying it's the second coming of Christ every single time it's realeased LOL.





 




Sad part is rift is better and trion atleast tried harder. Oh and trion wasn't afraid to let people try their game pretty much before it even came out. Why is that no one else will do this guess they don't support their game like trion does, you might not like rift but at least they let you find that out with out having to pay for it.


  Battlerock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/12/11
Posts: 996

12/28/11 12:38:15 PM#156
Wow has spoiled everyone, its that simple, what's not simple is pulling wow off its high horse, after a few days in swtor pandas are not sounding to bad for all I get with wow I can deal with pandas, I would have thought one of these producers would have looked at wow and just said that's what I want when I develop and release a game, everyone has just failed when it comes to dethroning the king, long live wow, For The Horde baby! Two big games of 2011 and they don't even come close to the 800 pound gorilla world of warcraft, Rift = stiff as a board and Swtor is a creaking single player game with a,few chances for some co op and poor pvp, hey at least its sw themed right? No thanks jokers I will take the real deal, I will take wow.
  meat_eater

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 9

12/28/11 12:45:37 PM#157

Originally posted by cippalippa

Wish there where more honest  videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.





 


I agree. 


  bestever

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 613

12/28/11 12:46:15 PM#158

Originally posted by KingofHartz

Wow has spoiled everyone, its that simple, what's not simple is pulling wow off its high horse, after a few days in swtor pandas are not sounding to bad for all I get with wow I can deal with pandas, I would have thought one of these producers would have looked at wow and just said that's what I want when I develop and release a game, everyone has just failed when it comes to dethroning the king, long live wow, For The Horde baby! Two big games of 2011 and they don't even come close to the 800 pound gorilla world of warcraft, Rift = stiff as a board and Swtor is a creaking single player game with a,few chances for some co op and poor pvp, hey at least its sw themed right? No thanks jokers I will take the real deal, I will take wow.

 




Sad fact more people are jumping from wow and coming to rift, since that panda move. My brother has played wow for over 6 years and has walked away and loves rift because it reminds him of vaniila. I know rift didn't change much but I enjoy it more then wow and its static world. As always just opinions nothing more.


  bestever

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 613

12/28/11 12:46:54 PM#159

Originally posted by meat_eater




Originally posted by cippalippa




Wish there where more honest  videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.











 




I agree. 





 




Agree sir


  User Deleted
12/28/11 12:48:14 PM#160
Originally posted by bestever

Originally posted by meat_eater




Originally posted by cippalippa




Wish there where more honest  videogame journalist like Danny, all the othere reviewers just lost credit to my eyes, and i will never believe them again.











 



I agree. 





 



Agree sir

I know I mean reviews are only honest when they match up with your opinion right?

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