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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » How STar WArs can compete with Guild Wars 2

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204 posts found
  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2639

12/28/11 6:36:52 AM#121
Originally posted by Kidon

Quality as to be payed for, if its free something is very wrong or it just sucks

Before you keep up with this crap there are a few very very simple things you need to learn/consider:

1) GW1 and GW2 are not FREE. You have to buy the game, there is just no monthly sub.

2) GW1 has received several expansions over the years and still gets updates, new events, etc. This is 6 (almost 7) years after its release and with no subscriptions. How many subscription games even still do updates? Most are barely getting around to fixing bugs, if they ever even bother.

3) GW1 has sold close to 7 million copies total, just under 2 million of those since 2008 (in comparison Rift hasnt sold even 1m since its release)

4) You keep mentioning 200k playerbase. List for me how many full blown MMOs have that large of a playerbase, especially 7 years after release. I bet you can only give me 1 game, possibly 2. Then consider that GW1 wasnt even a full MMO and GW2 will be.

5) They have already stated that along with the thousands of dynamic events already in place at launch they will also be adding in new events on a regular basis

6) Just take a look at the hype meter here on MMORPG.com. GW2 has held the #1 spot for IIRC nearly 2 years now (perhaps 1 1/2 years) and hasnt budged. SWTOR couldnt even touch it with its massive budget, Bioware, AND the freaking Star Wars IP behind it.

7) Do a little bit of research instead of just hating on something you know absolutely nothing about just because of some pathetic assumptions about "free" games, especially when the game youre talking about isnt free in the first place.

  yewsef

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/07
Posts: 343

12/28/11 7:59:15 AM#122
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by yewsef
I am not a GW2 hater and not a SWTOR fan... but you claim that GW2 eliminated the holy trinity and the game is not released yet.

Question is... is the new class system GW2 is implementing good? Is it going to play bettrr than role-specific-class system? (regardless if it was a shallow and simplified "trinity" or a more complex class-role system).

We need to know if the no-role system is actually a positive imprivement. Personally I am skeptical and I doubt it. I believe having specific classes doing specific role(s) is the way to go. I know WoW simplified it with Tank, Heal and DPS.... why copy WoW's lack if death? Developers should expand on features not reduce them. Unfortunately, a game released on 1999 had more roles than any of MMORPGs released afterwards (tank, puller, slowrr debuffer, support, CC, healer, DPS...etc).

After trying it out and witnessing it in purpose I am sorry but they did eliminate the holy trinity, it isn't "holy" any more, and there won't be any cases were people are saying "LFG need a healer for such and such."

 

The Holy Trinity is the most stupid idea ever. It was invented by Blizzard. It was never holy, it is not holy and it's stupid. Do you know what's more stupid? a No-Specific Class Role system. But I am open for everything and I will give GW2 a chance to convince me if they can pull it off.

 

For me I see Role-Specific Classes System the way to go for a game seeking to reach cooperative game play for PvE content. What WoW (and all the MMROPGs afterwards) did is reducing the gap of differences between classes. I want more Roles and not the stupid WoWish "Trinity". Classes should vary a lot and each player must play their role to over come a challenge; otherwise the PvE content will be boring and/or chaotic (in a bad way).

 

I am open for what GW2 claims to offer and I will see if it's going to be acceptable. Everytime such a system is claimed I get skeptical and every time I experience what I previously expected... which is, bad idea. It's good for PvP-Centric games, bad for a game that offers a lot of PvE content. But let me tell you something about GW 2 from what I read about this game... there are "embeded" roles that can be used for each class and it's really just an illusion of Role-less class system. But I hate to comment on something I didn't extensively test.

 

Oh, regarding LFG apparently you're like the majority of game designers; incompetant of having a proper solution for such a problem. City of Heroes (if you've played it) fixed this problem. Not for the fact that you really don't need any specific class (you don't need a healer, you don't need a tank, you don't need anything... for 90% of the content of the game) but also they fixed the ease to get a group rolling. However, CoH has Role-Specific-Class system.

 

Any combination of 2 or more class archtypes of CoH works. Like 2 scrappers, 1 defender and 2 controllers can work. 1 tank, 3 blasters and 1 controller can work. You can mix and match anything (except for having 8 of the same exact archtype... even that might work to be honest).

 

Just because EverQuest and other games failed to introduce the game content in a way where you can still have Roles and at the same time eliminate wanting/needing or waiting for specific Class doesn't mean it's not possible. Like I explained with my CoH example it IS possible.

 

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

12/28/11 8:00:37 AM#123


Originally posted by NasherUK
They are 2 very different games.  Guild wars isn't really an MMORPG due to most of the game being instanced, your effectively playing on your own private server with select players.  As guild wars 2 isn't subscription based it's not really competition, you can play both games for little extra cost.

I don't think the first GW is trying to compete with SWTOR.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

12/28/11 8:12:27 AM#124

Nice post OP. You should either link or post this on the official forum.

However, for me, if they want to flesh out the game and add longetivity they must build on the PvP aspects. For one they should break away the bounty hounter and smuggler to a third faction for PvP and then add some interesting world PvP objectives.

The first will not happen but the second one could.

  wesleyarts

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/10
Posts: 58

12/28/11 8:13:40 AM#125

SWTOR has no chance!

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1045

 
OP  12/28/11 8:15:39 AM#126

Again, as the OP, this is not a SWTOR vs Guild wars battle. I have a personal choice and I choose the game with a few more listed and both demonstrated (played at PAX) features.

However, even if you are not switching to guild wars, like I suspect many will do, you will be effected. I chose to start this thread based on my wife attempting to play Rift the other night and seeing the barely lively servers, rifts everywhere, and the abandonment of our guild for SWTOR. And I thought, wow, this is going to happen to SWTOR.  

If you wait until the game comes out to start implenting innovations, you will be sorely behind in the competition. And yes, I do see this as a competition. Sure, one game is free and the other isn't.  But there are only 24 hours in the day, and the most important thing to an MMO producer other than money, is time.  If people aren't playing your game, and your game depends on other people, your game is going to loose subscribers who are not even playing GW2, because there's no one to do flashpoints with, they can't find people for heroics and raids are going to empty.  

My point, is to unbiased present 4 features that GW 2 has that SWTOR doesnt, and not duplicate those in SWTOR, but attempt to figure out a way for SWTOR to compete with these features.  

I won't debate the value of the trinity system, or dynamic events.  The trinity system's biggest flaw, whether you like it or not, is that it forces a playstyle that requires 3 types of players and prevents you from playing if you do not have these 3 components.  Thus, you have to wait or set up schedules to play. This is a systematic flaw (not based on bias).  With static content, the content offers no replay value pass its 1st attempt.  Thus players who have been playing longer than other players are less likely to play with new players or players who have played less.  

SWTOR's big flaw, again from an unbais point of view, is it's heavy instancing makes getting into a group more difficult.   I play with my wife and gf all the time.  I never have a problem, but I do understand others do.  Autogrouping eliminates this complaint, and the less complaints and happier gamers, the less likely they will be looking for an alternative in 6 months.  

SWTOR has a big emphasis on emersion, but it breaks the emersion in several places.  From a story point of view, it breaks the suspension of belief that the biggest baddest boss is so stupid he is only going to attack the one guy not doing the most damage or healing.  I've played tabletops for 30 years, (where role playing games were invented) in those games, the first person the boss will attack and kill is always the healer, then the guy who does the most damage. Once I've leveled my alt pass 20, i am going through the same adventures as a sith as my republi character with few changes other than the surface story. 

Sure, Bioware can sit back, say we made a damn fine game and we have no worries aboug GW2, but I'm sure thats the approach Wow and Rift have taken.  

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7941

12/28/11 8:19:00 AM#127

the only difference between gw2 dynamic content and swtor dynamic content is you have to clic on the one giving the quest but you get the voice acting the story line the dialogue etc !so it isnt dynamic because you got to clic on a character!(potato =potato no mather how you pronounce it!)

  Havekk

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1362

12/28/11 8:19:22 AM#128
Again, I'm not sure why everyone is so excited about the demise of the "holy trinity" in gw2? It's one of the main reasons I won't be Playing that game. I like having a specific role. I've watched the combat from gw2 and it looks the same as any other game, just without a dedicated healer. So this is something I really hope they don't do in TOR. Keep that horseshit in gw2 and have fun.
  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

12/28/11 8:21:43 AM#129

Not to mention GW2 polished quality in beta over SWTOR polished quality on release.

Tho GW2 isn't out yet, we all know what it will have and what it will bring, but we really should wait and see what happens when it's actually out.

I bought SWTOR but I can't play it because my account can't be activated due to product key issues (I'm trying to solve this with swtor support for over 7 days now) so can't even compare the games aspects (what I red and watched for gw2 with swtor) because I can't judge the game only from the beta weekend. 

So let's just wait and see when both games are out and enjoy what we have till then.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1045

 
OP  12/28/11 8:28:07 AM#130
Originally posted by NasherUK

They are 2 very different games.  Guild wars isn't really an MMORPG due to most of the game being instanced, your effectively playing on your own private server with select players.  As guild wars 2 isn't subscription based it's not really competition, you can play both games for little extra cost.

FYI, have you played SWTOR? I can't see GW2 being anymore heavily instanced than SWTOR (a feature i actually love) as I think most games Massive efforts breaks the role playing aspect.  I hate seeing 40people doing 1 quest seperately.  

  Mari2k

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/07
Posts: 383

12/28/11 8:30:25 AM#131

What GW2 really will bring to the table nobody knows. Promisses are promisses. So its way to early to talk about this.

Fakt is that not SWTOR must look at GW2, its the opposide. I will not accept it to read a quest log again without VO, TOR set the bar very high for the future MMOs.

  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

12/28/11 8:35:35 AM#132
Originally posted by NasherUK

They are 2 very different games.  Guild wars isn't really an MMORPG due to most of the game being instanced, your effectively playing on your own private server with select players.  As guild wars 2 isn't subscription based it's not really competition, you can play both games for little extra cost.

Guild Wars 1 ISN'T an MMORPG... Guild Wars 2 IS an MMORPG (in every way you look at it!) ...  Guild Wars 2 ISN'T mostly instanced and you're not effectivly playing on your own private server with selected players - that's GW1 not GW2... GW is completly opposite of GW1.... If you're talking about instancing, SWTOR is instanced on every step of the way. (I'm not trashing the game, but what you just said is blasphemy. I've bought SWTOR just to be clear :D). 

It will be competition because if someone likes the game which he doesn't have to pay monthly fee more than the game he has to pay monthly fee, what makes you think he will keep paying the game he doesn't play as much as he does the one he doesn't have to pay for every month ? I certanly wouldn't.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2639

12/28/11 8:37:24 AM#133
Originally posted by drbaltazar

the only difference between gw2 dynamic content and swtor dynamic content is you have to clic on the one giving the quest but you get the voice acting the story line the dialogue etc !so it isnt dynamic because you got to clic on a character!(potato =potato no mather how you pronounce it!)

If you think thats the only difference, youve sure got a lot of catching up to do.

  fony

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 799

12/28/11 8:43:10 AM#134

played months of SWTOR, played days of GW2. GW2 delivers on more promises than TOR does if you remeber what bioware was saying three years ago. it's funny that people are telling themselves GW2 simply doesn't exist. it must suck to be chiained by such mania, not able to enjoy games so much as the fanaticism around games.

  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

12/28/11 8:46:05 AM#135
Originally posted by fony

played months of SWTOR, played days of GW2. GW2 delivers on more promises than TOR does if you remeber what bioware was saying three years ago. it's funny that people are telling themselves GW2 simply doesn't exist. it must suck to be chiained by such mania, not able to enjoy games so much as the fanaticism around games.

Bioware promised this for SWTOR: "We are putting the "R" back into MMORPG!"

What they forgot to tell everyone that to fill all those "R"s into the game they removed the "P".

  eugam

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/07
Posts: 993

Something must have happened to the gene pool lately...

12/28/11 8:55:58 AM#136

They simply dont have to compete.

  eugam

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/07
Posts: 993

Something must have happened to the gene pool lately...

12/28/11 9:00:50 AM#137
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by fony

played months of SWTOR, played days of GW2. GW2 delivers on more promises than TOR does if you remeber what bioware was saying three years ago. it's funny that people are telling themselves GW2 simply doesn't exist. it must suck to be chiained by such mania, not able to enjoy games so much as the fanaticism around games.

Bioware promised this for SWTOR: "We are putting the "R" back into MMORPG!"

What they forgot to tell everyone that to fill all those "R"s into the game they removed the "P".

The game is 2 weeks old.

Its has the basics for anything really. Social points fro grouping etc. Let people relearn the R a bit and wait what Bio is doing then next 6 months.

One thing is clear though. Bio are currently the good guys

  User Deleted
12/28/11 9:04:35 AM#138
Originally posted by toddze

Tor will be f2p by the time GW2 releases. Ok maybe not f2p, but no one will be talking about TOR by the time GWII releases.

You can't even convince yourself that this is true. GW2 is not going to be the greatest game of all time regardless of what people think. I have been hyped too many times to fall for that ole trick again. I am a serious ToR fan, but I am not going to be the best ever. I haven't experienced end game yet. You haven't experienced GW2 at all...

  Shroom_Mage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 871

It's all or nothin'!

12/29/11 9:54:16 PM#139


Originally posted by dontadow
I can't see GW2 being anymore heavily instanced than SWTOR (a feature i actually love) as I think most games Massive efforts breaks the role playing aspect. I hate seeing 40people doing 1 quest seperately.

You forget that GW2 doesn't have quests. The open world content scales to the number of players in the area so having 40 players on one objective can actually be fun.


Originally posted by eugam
The game is 2 weeks old.
Its has the basics for anything really. Social points fro grouping etc. Let people relearn the R a bit and wait what Bio is doing then next 6 months.
One thing is clear though. Bio are currently the good guys

>Bioware
>good guys
costanza.jpg

Social points are one of the most pathetic ways to encourage grouping I've ever seen. Their gameplay strongly discourages grouping so they throw heroic quests at you and force you to group in order to get social points.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3545

12/29/11 10:14:06 PM#140

I never realized that game's mechanics are what people use to decide whether to play a game or not.

By that logic, games like Tetris, Angry Birds, Minecraft should not sell well since they have simplistic mechanics.

Wait a min.... That is not what's happening!

 

Games are an entertainment form and are judged as such by the vast millions of people; Is it entertaining?

 

Note, simplistic mechanics does NOT equal 'easy'. I challenge anyone to say Tetris is easy.

 

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

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