Originally posted by eric_w66

The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.

You, sir, should go play DC Universe Online and Vindictus (both free games) for about a week a piece THEN come back to TOR. lol.

THEN... go watch some TERA and GW2 youtube vids. Compare those to TOR's combat system.

Are you beginning to see how an MMO CAN have a "flavorful and original" combat system?

you're welcome for the new experiences in MMO combat ... and I appologize for ruining TOR's combat for you.

Originally posted by StSynner

Originally posted by eric_w66

The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.

You, sir, should go play DC Universe Online and Vindictus (both free games) for about a week a piece THEN come back to TOR. lol.

THEN... go watch some TERA and GW2 youtube vids. Compare those to TOR's combat system.

Are you beginning to see how an MMO CAN have a "flavorful and original" combat system?

you're welcome for the new experiences in MMO combat ... and I appologize for ruining TOR's combat for you.

 

I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

I am sorry but Danny, your review comments and your score do not jive together.  You give it good marks across the board except the combat and quests fall flat... sounds like your score should be at least a 7 if not an 8 as it is quite enjoyable to play.

" Despite this, SWTOR still comes off as a delightfully polished product with beautiful graphics, immersive audio, and an enjoyable Star Wars atmosphere."

Just because it feels like Rift or WoW or any other game does not take away from this.  I think you should revise the score you gave.  Or delete your comments.

Umm maybe the people that gave those (even if temp) scores should go back and read what they wrote?

I am trying to say this nicely, cause i really do not "hate" SWTOR. I hope it does well long term.

But, everyone but danny, seems to be saying the best 2 things about the game, are Polish, and Story. The rest is pretty basic MMO game play.

Polish, is ALWAYS great to have, it makes any game better if we have dealt with some of the absolutely horrible MMO launches. But in the end polish does not make the game last longer or make it keep us subbing, just does not annoy us along the way:P

And Story: Will the story not end? Can they make a MMO that focuses on story last long enough to keep people paying a sub for months or years?

If the basic game play falls back on the norm after you reach cap, do we have anything but a MMO game that pushes a polished story and once you hit cap, you are done?

What, other than a nice change of pace to level cap have we gotten? They need time to flesh out the other parts of the game as well, to match some of the longer running MMO's out there.

So my question is still will people stay here in SWTOR while that happens after reaching level cap? Or will they go to the next MMO that launches or even back to some of the older games?

Guess for me the Story is not worth the scores that i am seeing being given by most people. Not when at the end you have the same ole same ole.

Makes getting to cap nice, and refreshing, but kinda like the first ding on the new car, after that it is just an old car:)

I'm playing the Game.... I'm a starwars Fan and have played MMO for 12 years.

OH DEARS...

1.The game is far from "Polished" maybe to a WoW player it may seem that way.

2. A friend of mine started playing a Jedi on the 15th Dec, he is now lvl 50 maxed out and complete which confirms the 2 month game playability.

3.Beta testers must have spent their time playing with their eyes closed.

4.Space(arcade game) very weak indeed.

5. Character Customisation limited.

6. Star Wars Lore (make it up as they go along) e.g Smuggler healer?..........

7. No nuetrally alligned starting classes or starting point i.e Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Tatooine.

Good Points

1. Crafting (design to thwart farmers) Nice.

2. Story lines and toon reaction choices.

As you can see I don't believe polls... I go by hands on experience but I do intend to play from lack of any alternative to the Star Wars Online experience.

You can kinda see why they wanted Star Wars Galaxies of the grid with such a poorly produce offering .... Nevermind

Originally posted by eric_w66

Originally posted by StSynner

Originally posted by eric_w66

The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.

You, sir, should go play DC Universe Online and Vindictus (both free games) for about a week a piece THEN come back to TOR. lol.

THEN... go watch some TERA and GW2 youtube vids. Compare those to TOR's combat system.

Are you beginning to see how an MMO CAN have a "flavorful and original" combat system?

you're welcome for the new experiences in MMO combat ... and I appologize for ruining TOR's combat for you.

 

I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

DCUO =/= Champions or CoX. You should go back and try them again, if you actually have played them all.

edit: On Topic: This was a nice article. You guys should do these roundtables more often. I liked how it turned out; seeing differing opinions in addition to the official review.

Danny for President... please...

I recall a lot of reviewers givings Age of Conan a score of 6 out of 10 I'd love to know what Danny gave that .

I personally would give it an 8.5 theres things that could be improved but over all its a really enjoyable and fun experiance . I find I can play for hours and they just disapear . I've liked other mmos but this is the only one thats drawn me in in the way WoW vanilla did .

Originally posted by eric_w66

The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.

 

well, i tried to strafe out of being shot with laser weapons... you know what those pesky little light rays did? they flew a curve and hit me directly in my chest. You CAN bend light but you would need black hole's for that. An aimed combat system would've been perfect for swtor but unfortuneately the budget was quite small so it didnt make it.

Originally posted by eric_w66

Originally posted by StSynner

Originally posted by eric_w66

The one comment here that I have to wonder about is "Combat was bland and unoriginal".

Easy to say, hard to follow up with a combat system that is "flavorful and original". It's all been done before, so how can something be original when our input systems are keyboard/mouse and sometimes joystick/gamepad? Seriously? How many ways can you make a combat system with those tools? FPS vs turn based, tab targetted vs "aimed" (ala skyrim/fallen earth). What would the reviewer DO to make combat "original"?

Griping about something no one can change is a bit silly. Unless, of course, he has the next big idea that NO ONE thought of in 31 years of PC gaming.

You, sir, should go play DC Universe Online and Vindictus (both free games) for about a week a piece THEN come back to TOR. lol.

THEN... go watch some TERA and GW2 youtube vids. Compare those to TOR's combat system.

Are you beginning to see how an MMO CAN have a "flavorful and original" combat system?

you're welcome for the new experiences in MMO combat ... and I appologize for ruining TOR's combat for you.

 

I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

How is Vindictus combat like Skyrims? Skyrim is half the speed and involves lots of skill/item swapping. Fallen Earth's combat was broken and clunky at best. GW2 also isn't another "aimed" system cause it uses a targetting system, which I find pretty dumb when claiming to have a dodge mechanic. TERA's combat is more akin to Monster Hunter if anything which is not the "same thing". If you find the action based combat system already "Unoriginal and bland" depsite it still being a newer concept then you might as well move on from MMORPGs.

SWTOR's combat is actually refreshing for change.  Yes it is a MMORPG and how many ways can it be done over.  Currently level 30 and indeed beta tested it.  I was like the guy with the 6.5 at one time. I would give it an 8 now.

My biggest problem with the game is it feels like a stand alone Dragon Age (if you played it), not a bad thing but the game is not so massive even with the server queues.  I do not see alot of players in the same zone.  The feel is like Guild wars where everyone is in a main hub and groups up and heads out into the world.  The instances are all in one spot so alot of players hang out there.

Some will balk but the questing system si a strong point for me.  I really enjoy them.  The bonus missions are sually kill so many of this or that but it is not turn in the quest and then go back and collect or kill something in the same spot you just left.  When the quest and the bonus is comploete you do not have to go back, unless it is a daily quest. 

The companion system is fun and I love how I am not running all over the planet trying to gather materials.  Getting gear is not a big deal.  You can get orange items you can modify to actually be better then the gear dropped in your zone.  About time someone did the gear thing right.  I am still in my orange noob gear that is better then the dropped gear in the zone because I can modify it.  Salute to the dev that thought this one up. 

Not going to comment on the space part of the game as they are re-doing it.  If it remained as it is I would call it a minigame nothing moe as it is solo only and no massive battles.  I hope they ge this part right as the space ship is a really cool addition if in the future it actaully has a part in the game besides storing your pets and gear.

My real problem is it feels so empty.  Guildwars style.  I want a massive world where I can interact with the players more not instances everywhere I go.  My biggest turnoff so far. 

11 Days to max out a toon..... How refreshing will that be in a few months?....

Nothing new about the combat at all. Sometimes I think these boards are full of paid posters... btw it does happen, "Don't Believe The Hype" this does seem to sum up the game quite well.

Why so many 9's?  I can see more 7.5's and 8.0's, but 9's...::sigh::  That means you are saying the game is almost perfect.   I recall other high scores on this webiste for games, games that are either now dead or not doing so well, and all had way over the top scores.   What kind of message will you be sending the average gamer when you rate a game like SW:TOR that high.  It is missing basic features we find in MMO's today.   It is not as polished as people say it is.   It even has what some consider "game breaking" issues.  Yet...a 9 score.   ::shakes her head::  I am all for giving a game a good score, but I think the game should earn that score.  A 9 though.   SW:TOR is not a 9.  Not as it is right now.   It can attain a 9 if Bioware fixes what needs fixed.

Danny W. I think your basis is spot on. Bioware promised the moon and delivered a pretty much more of the same game. In the end it is a good game, even fun but not the great game so many people are gushing on about. Bioware had no experience in the MMO market and so did the smart thing and followed the tried and true model others had set. However to me the kill of this is Bioware called out other MMOs and then made a regualr MMO with a Star Wars skin and voices.

I will however disagree with your score of 6.0, this is a solid game is not anything revolutionary and is deserving of a solid 7.5 to 8.0 score. 

The only thing bioware ever promised u was adding story and vo with choices and companions to the normal mmo and thats exactly what they gave u

How did they over state that ? If u didnt actually pay attention to what they were promising to bring to mmos thats your fault.

I knew exactly what i was getting maybe that is why im loving tor and have not had any oh crap they lied to me moments

Because i actually paid attention to what bioware was giving me. Hvae to say its nice to see so m any positive reviews, Of course i expected to see all the hate aimed at them also once i saw how good most of them were,

Just suprised no one has used to mmorpg staff was paid to giv those good numbers lie yet. 

I agree with Danny. Since it's a mediocre to average MMO and deserves a 5 for average but since it has VO to at least make the quest grind a little more tolerable then it gets a +1 making it a 6. Dead on.

Originally posted by eric_w66

I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

if you think that TOR's combat system is anywhere CLOSE to the games i listed... then there is nothing I can say to you. lmao. your rabid fanboism has clouded your mind... seems BW has pulled the old Jedi mind trick on you, buddy.

had TOR utilized the same aiming system as either DCU or Vindictus... omg...

The rumour on the US servers is that Blizzard and EA are in it purely for the initial gains and not the long term which shows in the gameplay longevity. Do the math you'll be amazed. 

A Star Wars fan to the end... George....what have you done? I'll be searching for a new mmo come spring no doubt.

Originally posted by StSynner

Originally posted by eric_w66

I've played both DCUO and Vindictus. Nothing new there. What makes them so special to you? DCUO is City of Heros is Champions Online (played them all). Vindictus is a VERY lame korean grinder with setpiece classes/characters. It's combat is skyrim/fallen earth like. Been there, done that too. GW2 looks like its another "aimed" system. Unoriginal and Bland. TERA same thing. Unoriginal and bland. See how you can apply that to any MMORPG out there? It's because it's all been done before. Hence, MY POINT. :D

if you think that TOR's combat system is anywhere CLOSE to the games i listed... then there is nothing I can say to you. lmao. your rabid fanboism has clouded your mind... seems BW has pulled the old Jedi mind trick on you, buddy.

had TOR utilized the same aiming system as either DCU or Vindictus... omg...

I would hate it. No offense but not everyone enjoyed DCUO combat that much.