Trending Games | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Guild Wars 2 | Blade & Soul | Black Desert

    Facebook Twitter YouTube
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,987,210 Users Online:0
Games:829  Posts:6,438,883
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: The Lost Sense of Journey

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
59 posts found

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 15669

OP  12/24/11 9:12:15 AM#1

In his latest column, Managing Editor Bill Murphy takes a look at the opposing ideas that we have both gained and lost parts of the journey within the MMOs we love to play. See what Bill's got to say and then let us know what you think in the comments.

Have we lost the sense of journey and discovery in our games? Are the days where players could get lost in an MMO’s world forever gone due to the trend of quest markers, smaller worlds, and hand-holding quests that guide you from point A to point B? Even one of the genre’s most recent successes, Star Wars: The Old Republic has given players every opportunity they can to not get lost in the game world. Quest markers (while optional) dot every task and it’s really quite easy to get around with landspeeders and teleportation being a part of the game from level one. At level 15 you get a sprint ability which makes it even easier to traverse the landscape, and a whole “planet” is easily navigated in minutes. But is this new ease of transportation an important feature or a limitation of what used to be a genre steeped in exploration?

Read more of Bill Murphy's The Lost Sense of Journey.

Associate Editor:
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom


Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 175

12/26/11 8:35:59 AM#2

Oh I could not disagree more.

I never saw long travel times as a feature of a game. I saw it as a timesink meant to increase subscription revenue. 

There was nothing to do on the ship in WOW , or while in the Speeder getting from place to place in SWTOR (which seems to have baked in all the systems that WOW and the rest of the MMORPG world are now moving away from).

If I need to sail on a ship then fly on a giant bird for 10 minutes to get back to a location, then give me something meaningful to do. Combat while in flight...something.  OR let me press the spacebar, click YES and get to my destination immediately. 

Forcing players to "experience' this Journey was never a good idea, and was never done to benefit players in my view. Some liked it, and others didn't. And fewer still saw it for the tool of developer profit that it was. I have also always dismissed the notion that it was supposed to force (there is that word from primary school and kindergarten again) players to interact while sitting onboard the ship. Well after the first few years when Developers realised this was NOT happening...why didn't they change the system to what people seemed to want? 

After I have seen the "massive world" once..or twice...I don't need to see it again and again. If you need to drive for 2 hours to get to your destination, even the most impressive and beautiful landscape becomes arduous when you are late for that meeting.

What I have never understood is why Developers never worked Fast Travel into Player Crafting. Where devices/magic could be crafted by players to be used for Instant Travel around a world. Drop a device at X point, and use a consumable to return to X, Y or Z whenever I want to. The components to create the Travel Device are made by a few different professions and must be combined. You create a constant economy where crafting always has some meaning as you can build different features and tweaks into different quality devices. Why not do this? Why?

Because Travel is supposed to be long because it's a timesink. And Timesink = Profit.

Game breaking? World shrinking...not at all. It works perfectly for Morrowind,Skyrim, Fallout and others. I have NEVER seen reviewers or players complain about losing a sense of "scale" of the world at all. You darn well know that Skyrim has a MASSIVE open world, and you have no difficulty in appreciating it.

It amazes me therefore, why gamers continue to accept that these fundamental aspects of gameplay suddenly change radically once a Developer's profit depends on you remaining subscribed and playing their game for as long as possible, dragging out the existing content as much as they can.

I have a question for Mr. Murphy:

When you played Skyrim, or Fallout...did you *choose* (because it is choice) to run everywhere instead of using the Fast Travel *options* available to you?




Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 2101

12/26/11 8:39:33 AM#3

If you read the article again, I lament the loss of expansive worlds while saying it's a good thing in other ways because there's more of a focus on true exploration and delving into a world.  In other words: long travel times is not exploration.  Getting side-tracked because you find yourself exhilerated by being off the beaten-path is.  ;)


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 3881

Don't die mad, just die.

12/26/11 8:54:07 AM#4
Originally posted by BillMurphy

If you read the article again, I lament the loss of expansive worlds while saying it's a good thing in other ways because there's more of a focus on true exploration and delving into a world.  In other words: long travel times is not exploration.  Getting side-tracked because you find yourself exhilerated by being off the beaten-path is.  ;)

This is what keeps pulling me back to Vanguard. You can fast travel (teleport, taxi, flying mount) or you can go see what's in that cave or that dungeon or that crypt or on that mountain or in that valley. I love just roaming.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 122

12/26/11 8:57:07 AM#5

i like the way that mortal online does it where exploration is a part of the game imo ofc. the map is actually fairly small as it is now, but i had alot of fun the first month with exploring. you dont get a map or pointers anywhere, and i have heard of people who were lost for 3 days in the jungle:P i dont play it anymore though because of bugs and the likes.

i miss the oldschool games where you would have to run/ride and prepare for that to lower the chances of getting killed by something or someone on the way to whereever.

so i would love to see a AAA ultima online 2. but gamers want someone to hold their hand through their entire gaming experience these days:(


Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 175

12/26/11 9:00:24 AM#6

Originally posted by BillMurphy

If you read the article again, I lament the loss of expansive worlds while saying it's a good thing in other ways because there's more of a focus on true exploration and delving into a world.  In other words: long travel times is not exploration.  Getting side-tracked because you find yourself exhilerated by being off the beaten-path is.  ;)


Yes..I see that difference in my understanding of the article.

I suppose fundamentally I don't think these "expansive" worlds have ever been properly utilised. So I don't see us losing anything that was worthwhile.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 134

12/26/11 9:05:56 AM#7
@gel214th... I know you've built an impregnable tower around the idea that PROFT=motive=bad....

But it makes absolutely no sense... As Bill points out, the games have been moving farther and farther from the "time sink" model you refer to (ironic you choose WoW, the progenitor of "easy mode", but ok) and yet have become more and more profitable.

An MMO wants you to stay subbed. Shocker! I think there is a contingent of MMO players who really have no business playing them because they really want single player games and so are on a rat race to "win!!!". These folks view *everything* as a "time sink designed to milk $$$$$$$"

If *SWTOR* is still too much of a "time sink" then it's time to stop playing MMOs

I see where Bill is coming from, but totally disagree. It isn't the game mechanics, it's personal perspective. Folks whose first games were EQ, UO, et al will forever lament whatever few features those games had as being key to their sense of wonder while missing that the only thing really driving that sense of wonder was that it as new.

I've watched folks sit in awe of WoW. Full sense of wonder. In the future, they will say XYZ game "ruined the genre" just as EQ veterans say WoW "ruined" the genre.

I started on Meridian59 and have played too many MMOs too count, but never to obsession, and fell the genre has steadily gotten better and more diverse.

If wandering landscape is what does it for someone, they can easily play DF, MO or

WoW proved, however, that the addressable audience can be made FAR bigger by doing things a certain way. SWTOR is now attempting yet again to expand the demographic. Maybe it will work, maybe not... But I truly do not believe that having an EQ style "where the hell am I????" mechanism would have either helped them get more subs or make them more profit.

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 5057

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

12/26/11 9:24:12 AM#8

Lost sense of Journey was Skyrim

While it still have quest pointers on the map. And quick travel - but while travelling towards your goal, its enough to look left and right and ask yourself : "Oh look at that mountain peek, wonder whats there" or "Look , a dirt road leading to the forest...wonder whats there"

And you are guaranteed to find another quest that will take few more hours.

Actually, sometime I have to hold myself not to stray of the path..least i forget about my main quest.

And since there is no QuestXP per se. You dont care about doing or finishing quests...

You just do your thing, whatever you want :)


Who knows, maybe one day we see this in MMOs ?

Perhaps in Pathfinder MMO ?






Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

12/26/11 9:44:17 AM#9

Meh. The days of vast crafted worlds are over. Now days all we are left with is a chain of self contained shopping malls. Orc world right next to the Elven Grotto, Beds Bath Bards and Beyond, Dwarfs backwards R US, a few goblin delicatessens, the Jedi Bouncy Castle, and around the corner, Ragnars Raving Dungeon of Death, please form an orderly queue, thank you for not smoking.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "


Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/07
Posts: 175

12/26/11 9:47:48 AM#10

Originally posted by mlambert890
@gel214th... I know you've built an impregnable tower around the idea that PROFT=motive=bad....

If *SWTOR* is still too much of a "time sink" then it's time to stop playing MMOs

Well yes, I think that SWTOR is built around a foundation of anachronistic timesinks.

It utilises the mechanics of a slow run speed, carrot on a stick Sprint power at 15, widely scattered Taxi points and Bind points, and a Fast Travel system that is on a 30 minute cooldown. All this and the quests force you to criss cross areas that are several times more massive than they need to be (especially since SWTOR's zones are Instanced in a way that people argued in the past made a MMORPG NOT a MMORPG). Forcing players to level up another character to experience a different Advance Class works hand in hand with this.

Most of these have nothing to do with enhancing my enjoyment of the game, they are simply Timesinks meant to drag content out.

I don't think MMOs are not for me.

I have great fun playing CHampions Online where I get very fast travel almost from the start of the game.

RIFT is the same thing, I can get a Mount at the start that boosts my speed by 60% immediately.

World of Warcraft Cataclysm was awesome...but then I invested in the fastest mount I could buy ;-) (See a pattern here? lol).

DCUO I'm a fricking Hero that can Fly as I start my adventures.

In Rift I am not even locked into any particular Role, depending on my Class I can fulfil all roles as I wish. No Timesink of being forced to level Alts to experience more and varied gameplay (unless of course I WANT to level an Alt).

Champions Online...I can be anything I can imagine, and then SWITCH to something else entirely if I want to.

Guild Wars 2? I am soooo looking forward to that title. If you have even read a few of the developer articles you will see how differently they approaching this Genre.

So I should stop playing MMOs, or MMOs are not for me? Hardly.

Old school MMOs with punishing timesinks and masochistic gameplay mechanics designed more to have me pay more than enjoy myself; these are what I have no patience for.

And yes, the mechanics of SWTOR trip over that line more than a few times especially with regard to travel systems, world size and "exploration".


Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 122

12/26/11 10:04:39 AM#11

EDIT: double posted by mistake:P


Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/11
Posts: 58

12/26/11 10:08:25 AM#12
I don't always mind the forced travel experience. It gives me a chance to take a poop and grab a fresh beer.

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5666

12/26/11 10:49:30 AM#13

I think we have lost much of what was good about journeys in a MMO, you can't replace that with more shiny stuff. A journey, the simple sensation or travel is a big component in what makes a MMO feel like an online world. If you are always using teleports you might as well be in a lobby and picking what scenario you will play today.

Part of the art is to give journeys the feel of location even if you cannot do that. The taxis in SWtOR often seem to do that; one in Kass city springs to mind, you fly over and can look into areas you cannot get to. The Sprint power was a mistake though, I was hardly taking ages to move from A to B as it was before I could do that.

Lotro went from all needing to turn up to a raid location, to one needing to turn up, to you just needed to have been there before. I never minded Hunters porting us in, but now we may as well just sat in the proverbial lobby.

DAOC horse rides might have been too long; 15mins to cross the country with two changes of horse was a time sink. But we have gone from that to one click and you are there. Also it depends on what you get once you get there; 15mins never seemed that long when I was meeting up with the guildies.

But everything has to be designed with solo play as the priority these days. So short travel and shinnies are here to stay.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4216

12/26/11 11:03:59 AM#14

Completely agree with this.  Old Forest back at LOTRO's launch is the epitome of how this type of content should be done.  So sad they changed it, even if it does make progressing my levels and storylines faster.


Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 18281

12/26/11 11:08:02 AM#15
Originally posted by elocke

Completely agree with this.  Old Forest back at LOTRO's launch is the epitome of how this type of content should be done.  So sad they changed it, even if it does make progressing my levels and storylines faster.

Actually, Old Forest in closed beta. There were several iterations. Steiffel told me that the guy who created the old forest was an old school gamer. He was then told that most people don't enjoy getting lost, the danger, etc. so he made different versions until  the current one came to be. Honestly I don't even see how the current version can be considered a forest.


I wonder if people know that there used to be trolls on the road on the way to Rivendell. The game used to be more dangerous. I really miss it.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/19/04
Posts: 524

I was once Tailrot, Uproar, Bandage, Thus(tin) Hammered, Rock, and so many more. Aye gamerest.

12/26/11 11:10:22 AM#16

Nothing to do while on the boat?  Nothing to do while walking across the country?  Well if those words come out of a person's mouth, then I am afraid they simply do not understand what was lost.

Those "unnecesary timesinks" as those who share that affliction can only think to call them are opportunities.  Sinks have more then drains, they were also once a place of gathering, a place where a team / family came together to get something necessary done.  No one enjoyed the task so to speak, but they enjoyed gathering there and socializing while they got that task completed.

Boats?  I met more future guildies, group members, even friends at boats in Everquest then anywhere else.  It a community approved socializing point.  Even the most timid would let loose and open up for conversation after standing there for 10-20 minutes.  Walking across the country for 15 minutes to get to new hunting place allowed people to talk or even just to simply take turns auto-following each other while grabbing snacks, bathroom breaks, changing laundry, etc.

There is a big reason solid communication is gone in today's games, and simple rude offensive, non-imerssive even diversions remain.  No one feels like they are in a community.  There's no where to do the dishes anymore.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4216

12/26/11 11:13:46 AM#17
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by elocke

Completely agree with this.  Old Forest back at LOTRO's launch is the epitome of how this type of content should be done.  So sad they changed it, even if it does make progressing my levels and storylines faster.

Actually, Old Forest in closed beta. There were several iterations. Steiffel told me that the guy who created the old forest was an old school gamer. He was then told that most people don't enjoy getting lost, the danger, etc. so he made different versions until  the current one came to be. Honestly I don't even see how the current version can be considered a forest.


I wonder if people know that there used to be trolls on the road on the way to Rivendell. The game used to be more dangerous. I really miss it.

Yep.  And it wasn't overtop the dangerous like some people call for these days when talking about making things hard, it was realistic and doable and didn't completely make the game impossible just had to find alternative ways to do things if one wanted to still solo.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 277

12/26/11 11:40:15 AM#18

I love the free world in skyrim. I never ever used a horse, I always walked around exploring new things. But it gets tedious to walk back and forth between two cities so then I use the fast travel/teleport option. Same with LOTRO, I walked everywhere discovering the whole map, but to do my dailies I just use the fast travel, it gets old after 4-5 times

Edit:  what I dont like about SWTOR is the scenery pictures, I can never ever discover that huge tower in the background, knowing its just a picture :( kills the atmosphere for me...


Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/04
Posts: 1001

Make a WORLD,
Not a Game.

12/26/11 11:40:25 AM#19

1 of the reasons I'm not immpressed by most recent games, the feeling of smallness that comes with instancing and a lack of big "outdoor" areas.  1 of the things I actually liked about Rifts is that they have little treats hidden away in spots all over. You know the old saying about it's all in the journey. These games are by their basic nature not supposed to have an end. 1 of the things I think has corrupted them so is this whole bs idea of "end-game", there's not supposed to be a end, or a final goal! I'm reminded of the title of 1 of the founding games of the genre "EverQuest" (it's even got it in the freakin name! -EVER-). I believe you need a good balance as 1 of the posters above mentioned Vanguard, as far as e-z transport(s) goes. Big expansive worlds are definitely what I want, I don't get any sense of immersion in these instanced little worlds. I love to be able to just travel around and even possibly get lost in the wilderness. There's been this horrible encroaching WoW-ifiying of these games making everything E-Z, and handed to people. It's supposed to be a adventure, not much adventure without some danger... Needs to be some possibility of loss... I believe ArchAge is supposedly going to have possibilities of pirate attacks, and sea monsters when you're out in the boats! I love it! Bring it on! I'm alittle (no guess not really) surprised a smart company doesn't try having a system where different servers might have different levels of "danger" in the world (at least as a experiment), I suspect they might just be surprised there might be a lot more of a audience for harder worlds then they might have thought. But then creativity, and experiments, not exactly at their high point these days.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/05
Posts: 2811

12/26/11 12:40:39 PM#20

I am aware of course that most games are "smaller"... along with all of the points made in the article.


Yet *I* can get lost in most mmo's that I play.   Altho to be honest this is why I don't group that much.   This is not even something that started recently.   I remember Ultima Online and my pvp partner being like "can we go kill someone now?".   While I wanted to know what was ... over there.


Oddly I would almost say the games have changed to meet the average mentality.   In almost all games I've played I like to explore and go places I'm not supposed to.   It has been very rare for me to ever find people with the same interest.   I have and then we end up grouping for a long time but its not common.


So in a game like TOR I see masses following the "golden path" and only going out of the way if there is some kind of update... lore.. holocron etc   Me?   I'm still way out in the middle of nowhere... no quests.. no updates of any kind.


I just want to know what is there... so for me the sense of journey is not lost at all.

Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search