---

Originally posted by Professor78

---

Originally posted by popinjay
 

---

They added PA's which you grind points on mobs simply to grind points on mobs to get very little benefit battle wise. I did all that in FFXI at the end and it gets STALE let me tell you. The difference was in FFXI you grinded mobs for points to get better SKILLS, not bonuses like "adds 50 hps".
They give benefits based on what weapons you weild, mount speeds, walking speeds, resistance to elements, ability to summon minor/major rifts for each. And in second PA some 2hr buffs like add 120sp. And some quests will reward you with a whole PA level, so its all tied in quite nicely.
Rift is a game that people play because they like the treadmill of coinage and currencies. That's really all there is at 50, This is my main point, what is there different that SWTOR offers, I really want there to be something different!

---

even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different. I think rift had it right with the size of ember. SWTOR would surely seem quite empty if its that big and limited to only 150? people per zone/instance at a time? Bigger in MMO is definately not always better, you want ot see signs of life.

---

 

---

I realize I can't "sell you" on ToR. No one can. All anyone who played Rift for six months from beta and played ToR to 36 right now (myself) can do is tell you of what I see which someone at 20 isn't going to be able to tell you about that played Rift that same amount of time.

I don't really think you want to be 'sold' on ToR. I think you actually want to be sold on Rift as in.. "I don't really like Rift anymore, but I don't see anything else I want to play".

I do hope you find what you are looking for but I found some things nice in Rift but overall, nothing worth a longterm sub because it all ended in currency grind and dungeon grind, and being a heavily dependant game on population to run rifts.. that's where the game fails for me.

Originally posted by Professor78

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

They added PA's which you grind points on mobs simply to grind points on mobs to get very little benefit battle wise. I did all that in FFXI at the end and it gets STALE let me tell you. The difference was in FFXI you grinded mobs for points to get better SKILLS, not bonuses like "adds 50 hps".

They give benefits based on what weapons you weild, mount speeds, walking speeds, resistance to elements, ability to summon minor/major rifts for each. And in second PA some 2hr buffs like add 120sp. And some quests will reward you with a whole PA level, so its all tied in quite nicely.

Rift is a game that people play because they like the treadmill of coinage and currencies. That's really all there is at 50, This is my main point, what is there different that SWTOR offers, I really want there to be something different!

even EI is set up for that. Plus the size of EI is impressive for Rift but honestly it's NOTHING compared to the size of any zone in TOR. You really should investigate ZONE SIZE and ACTIVITIES in ToR before saying it's more of the same like Rift. It's vastly different. I think rift had it right with the size of ember. SWTOR would surely seem quite empty if its that big and limited to only 150? people per zone/instance at a time? Bigger in MMO is definately not always better, you want ot see signs of life.

 

no matter how you look at the game no matter how much people try to spin it SWTOR is a thempark clone through and through.. Doesn't mean its a bad game at all but if you go in expecting  anything more than another basic themepark MMO you will be dissapointed... one thing that bothers me the most coming from rift is how limiting the class system is here.. obviously in rift this was one of its strongest features and having a role for PVP, one for dungeons, one for open world questing, one for open world pvp and be able to switch between them on the fly was such a relief.. going back to a game like this were you are restricted to one role unless you respec in which case you are still restricted to one role really is a let down coming from rift.. Also the talent trees in this game are just awful.. way to many of them are your basic increase this skill by 1-3%

Originally posted by Slowdoves

Originally posted by Professor78

This is a serious post, don't want any trolling rubbish. I have tried virtually every MMO there is at some point and wondering if I should jump into SWTOR now so not to get left behind. But got burnt with both AOC and FFXIV.

So I am asking any players who have moved from Rift and setting up home in SWTOR. I have put in 1700 hours into rift, and barely scratched the surface on what there is to do, I really do enjoy it that much. But there is one thing that is concerning me, the population seems to be gradually dwindling, and that eventually kills a game for me.

This is the bonus of SWTOR at the moment that I can see, and from all the negatove/possive stuff you read it looks like it could retain a healthy population.

So what has drawn other people in that really liked rift, what is it offering that was missing?

(And the Voiceover stuff doesnt really appeal to me as once I have seen it once, wouldnt really want to again. And wasntl too keen on the same kinda thing in Aion and AOC)

Serious responses only please. Potential Buyer.

If you are just getting burnt out,  maybe a new MMO isn't what you need. Find a new style of game or a new hobbie.

Sounds like you just need to move on.

With got burnt i mean, I hole in my pocket. A waste of time. AOC with its glitches,lag and bugs. And FFXIV having zero content.

---

Originally posted by sanosukex

one thing that bothers me the most coming from rift is how limiting the class system is here.. obviously in rift this was one of its strongest features and having a role for PVP, one for dungeons, one for open world questing, one for open world pvp and be able to switch between them on the fly was such a relief.. going back to a game like this were you are restricted to one role unless you respec in which case you are still restricted to one role really is a let down coming from rift..

---

Sure you can make a Shaman/Justicar or a Sentinel/Justicar but it's really the same thing. You're a healer doing the same thing is a slightly different way.

The roles that you can invent aren't really that diverse and the biggest contibution I think Rift does in this way is the "shift on the fly" thing where you can change from one style of healer to another but still .. healer. FFXI does the 'soul thing' long before this game as did Runes of Magic.

The only thing Trion gives you was you don't have to go to town to change your class. You don't have that in ToR because you really don't NEED it in ToR. Most people want don't really want to be a Jack of All Trades instead of a Master of One as much as they claim. If that was the case, you wouldn't have so many people leaving Rift as it is since that's the "heart" of the game.

Rift was sold on two things: soul system and rifts. Anything else wasn't listed as "OMG look". So if people aren't staying for that anymore that should be pretty telling especially given the claim that "Trion pushes out content faster than anyone else".

If Rift has the 'best class system', the most 'dynamic content (rifts)', it's company "listens to people unlike others" and pushes out content FASTER than anyone else in mmo history, why are subs bolting left and right with people saying "Sell me on ToR"? /boggle

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

I do hope you find what you are looking for but I found some things nice in Rift but overall, nothing worth a longterm sub because it all ended in currency grind and dungeon grind, and being a heavily dependant game on population to run rifts.. that's where the game fails for me.

since you obviously have a better eye for this game than me can you please explain how end game here is any differnt than rift? yes you have a pvp planet which really offers nothing since theres no political system in place to give any meaning to the pvp.. so basically you are stuck with same thing as every other game... daily heriocs, flashpoints, warzones, crafting..

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

 

If Rift has the 'best class system', the most 'dynamic content (rifts)', it's company "listens to people unlike others" and pushes out content FASTER than anyone else in mmo history, why are subs bolting left and right with people saying "Sell me on ToR"? /boggle

because at the end of the day rift is more of the same.. just like with swtor after the story and nice VO its more of the same which is why in a few months people are going to be over in the GW2 forums saying the same thing sell me on GW2

---

Originally posted by sanosukex

---

Originally posted by popinjay
 

---

---

I do hope you find what you are looking for but I found some things nice in Rift but overall, nothing worth a longterm sub because it all ended in currency grind and dungeon grind, and being a heavily dependant game on population to run rifts.. that's where the game fails for me.

---

since you obviously have a better eye for this game than me can you please explain how end game here is any differnt than rift?

yes you have a pvp planet which really offers nothing since theres no political system in place to give any meaning to the pvp.. so basically you are stuck with same thing as every other game... daily heriocs, flashpoints, warzones, crafting..

---

Firstly, lets' get facts out of the way.

- I am a Level 36 Commando healer. Fact.

- I have NOT seen endgame nor am I am a rush to get to endgame because there is simply more content I've seen in ToR than at this same level I was at in Rift. Fact.

- There is not only any PvP planet in Rift, there is not any Pvp ZONE in Rift. So saying that there's no "politics" in ToR is a moot argument when it doesn't exist in Rift and that's been out for almost 10 months now. Fact.

- There are no "daily HEROICS" in Rift. Fact. There are dailies but there isn't anything at all heroic about "Go defuse five bombs in a field" when that literally takes you one minute. Literally. Unless they added daily "HEROICS" in Rift with EI, I have no idea what you are talking about.

- Crafting is better in ToR than Rift. Fact. It doesn't matter that they both have crafing, it's who's crafting is better and ToR wins hands down. I have yet to find ANYONE who played Rift AND ToR and did both crafting for any length of time and said that Rift is better. I'm 305 Armstech, 295 Scavenging and 220 Investigations and it's FAR superior than anything Trion has. Crafting rifts? Seriously?

- Companions. Next time you play your shaman in Rift, command it to go sell all your grey loot you have in your inventory while you stay out in the field and keep fighting. If your companion comes back with your money, then tell him that you want them to go and craft something while you pick ANOTHER companion to fight instead because you now need a TANK companion vs a HEAL companion. Oh, and make sure your pet actually TALKS to you and understands when you command it to do that. That's immersion and content much better than Rift has. Fact.

- Minigames/sidesgame. ToR has shipboard content with missions that are escorts or destroying objectives. Rift's minigames include... coming soon, after 10 months. ToR has better side stuff. Fact.

- World size/exploration: Take all of Rift's zones every one and put them in a pile. Then go look at ToR and realize that BEFORE you hit 30, you've probably already seen more in ToR than all of Rift.. after 10 months. Fact.

How is ToR's endgame different from Rift's? How the hell would I know, lol? I'm still doing all the content BEFORE endgame so why would I concern myself with what's in another month from now?

To the OP sure go ahead and try it. You know me and and I a huge Rift fanboy. Go try it so you can gain a appreciation f what exactly Trion did with 1/3 of the budget of Bioware.

Go do their open world pvp or should I say complete and utter lack of open world pvp. Hey I guess giving any reward of any form...loot...xp...valor was a bad idea.

http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=76

^ pick a qq thread any thread. They have not even started debating class differences and trying to get them nerfed yet. They are asking for basic crap like a report afk button. The first month of TOR is the best to get in because NONE of the exploits have been fixed.

SO go in afk or go turn your weekly quest item in over and over and get the quest done in two seconds. Bioware is proving to be god awful slow at fixing exploits. Yeah 6 hour maintenance times oh how I miss those days.

If You feel like dealing with half the basic crap missing from the game then go for it. Right now you are penalized as a healer if you like raid healing, but being dps the rest of the time GET READY TO PAY! Popin can not even try and argue any of these points with me because he knows I am right.

As many have said they keep pushing story because the guts of the game are completely rotten and outdated. Bioware could not pull off what a unknown dev with no real experience could.

Yeah the story might be great, but come 50 a new destination opens up on your map called Planet Azeroth and once you land you are stuck and play by their rules.

Watching this Rift vs SWTOR thread is like watching a couple of Porsche owners argue over who's car is better when they are both the same year and model.

---

Originally posted by Puremallace
To the OP sure go ahead and try it. You know me and and I a huge Rift fanboy. Go try it so you can gain a appreciation f what exactly Trion did with 1/3 of the budget of Bioware.
 
Go do their open world pvp or should I say complete and utter lack of open world pvp.

---

My Pure, you sure don't put any unrealistic expectations on a game other than Rift.

After four days, most of the people playing the game are exploring, doing the quests and leveling. Why would you expect a PvE HEAVY game like ToR is to be full of a level 50 zone where everyone is PvPing?

I "appreciate" what West Virginia does with what little it has compared to New York, but it doesn't mean I want to move there.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

 

Firstly, lets' get facts out of the way.

 

- I am a Level 36 Commando healer. Fact.

 

- I have NOT seen endgame nor am I am a rush to get to endgame because there is simply more content I've seen in ToR than at this same level I was at in Rift. Fact.

 

- There is not only any PvP planet in Rift, there is not any Pvp ZONE in Rift. So saying that there's no "politics" in ToR is a moot argument when it doesn't exist in Rift and that's been out for almost 10 months now. Fact.

fact is endgame pvp is going to be the same, there is no reason to pvp other than gear grind.. same as rift same as wow unless you put in a system like DAOC or Lineage 2 PVP at eng game is nothing more than a gear grind

- There are no "daily HEROICS" in Rift. Fact. There are dailies but there isn't anything at all heroic about "Go defuse five bombs in a field" when that literally takes you one minute. Literally. Unless they added daily "HEROICS" in Rift with EI, I have no idea what you are talking about.

when you take into account the world event dailys and 3 solo dungeons and not to leave out all the crafting rifts, raid rifts items, the daily zone event items, the pvp rifts there are TONS of dailys in rift.. to many infact

- Crafting is better in ToR than Rift. Fact. It doesn't matter that they both have crafing, it's who's crafting is better and ToR wins hands down. I have yet to find ANYONE who played Rift AND ToR and did both crafting for any length of time and said that Rift is better. I'm 305 Armstech, 295 Scavenging and 220 Investigations and it's FAR superior than anything Trion has. Crafting rifts? Seriously?

crafting is nothing but a time sink in both games honestly.. im sitting right now racking up the credits from slicing by doing nothing but sitting here sending out my companion while I type this

- Companions. Next time you play your shaman in Rift, command it to go sell all your grey loot you have in your inventory while you stay out in the field and keep fighting. If your companion comes back with your money, then tell him that you want them to go and craft something while you pick ANOTHER companion to fight instead because you now need a TANK companion vs a HEAL companion. Oh, and make sure your pet actually TALKS to you and understands when you command it to do that. That's immersion and content much better than Rift has. Fact.

with the veteran rewards you can just summon a personal vedor and sell all your greys anywhere you want

 

- Minigames/sidesgame. ToR has shipboard content with missions that are escorts or destroying objectives. Rift's minigames include... coming soon, after 10 months. ToR has better side stuff. Fact.

 

- World size/exploration: Take all of Rift's zones every one and put them in a pile. Then go look at ToR and realize that BEFORE you hit 30, you've probably already seen more in ToR than all of Rift.. after 10 months. Fact.

I would be fine with TOR's worlds if eveything wasnt phased.. having 200 people in a planet the size of tatooine is just crazy im not sure if its a engine limitaion or what but it makes the games feel so empty and the bigger the planet the more its noticable.. this also destroys world pvp for people who enjoy that

 

How is ToR's endgame different from Rift's? How the hell would I know, lol? I'm still doing all the content BEFORE endgame so why would I concern myself with what's in another month from now?

you keep trying to sell how differn't this game is but in its core it is not.. does it have differn't things? of course its a differn't game but at its core its a thempark just like the rest of them

Originally posted by popinjay

I "appreciate" what West Virginia does with what little it has, but it doesn't mean I want to move there.

Hey Rift sure as hell was no pvp game and even I will admit that, but if Rift took this much of a it and they offered more incentives then TOR, then you guys are doubly screwed if they do not fix it.

Right now Bioware is saying " We expect you to pvp in this spot, but the factions are imbalanced. You get no valor, xp, or commendations for doing it, but go do it anyways"

^ If you do not see this train wreck coming then I do not know what to tell you. PvP'rs are the first to jump ship anyways in every game they touch. In my view TOR should have done what Rift did and sprinkle the pvp in. Rift had one video about pvp and got labeled a pvp game. TOR had entire comic con matches what do you think the backlash is going to be when these guys expecting DAoC do not get it.

I refuse to touch this until the one month subs pass. I want all the band wagon trash to leave and then determine which servers are stable.

Originally posted by Puremallace

 

Yeah the story might be great, but come 50 a new destination opens up on your map called Planet Azeroth and once you land you are stuck and play by their rules.

At least you dont have to spend 1-49 there too like you do in Rift.  And unlike rift, you may actually give a shit about your character by that time.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Hey Rift sure as hell was no pvp game and even I will admit that, but if Rift took this much of a it and they offered more incentives then TOR, then you guys are doubly screwed if they do not fix it.

 

Isnt the incentive to PvP to kill the other guys?  How is having something without a grind factor attached to it a bad thing?  Even with motivations in DAoC a lot of people just grouped up to go kill some bitches.

---

Originally posted by Puremallace

---

Originally posted by popinjay
I "appreciate" what West Virginia does with what little it has, but it doesn't mean I want to move there.

---

Hey Rift sure as hell was no pvp game and even I will admit that, but if Rift took this much of a it and they offered more incentives then TOR, then you guys are doubly screwed if they do not fix it.
 
Right now Bioware is saying " We expect you to pvp in this spot, but the factions are imbalanced. You get no valor, xp, or commendations for doing it, but go do it anyways"
 
^ If you do not see this train wreck coming then I do not know what to tell you. PvP'rs are the first to jump ship anyways in every game they touch. In my view TOR should have done what Rift did and sprinkle the pvp in. Rift had one video about pvp and got labeled a pvp game. TOR had entire comic con matches what do you think the backlash is going to be when these guys expecting DAoC do not get it.
 
I refuse to touch this until the one month subs pass. I want all the band wagon trash to leave and then determine which servers are stable.

---

Again, regardless of what you THINK Bioware is saying Rift is completely MUM about it's "open world PvP" which after 10 months is WORSE. How do you have a game an crow about how "innovative" the classes are, and then stick people in the same four arenas? The only time open world PvP happens in Rift (even on most PvP servers according to the server stats) is when someone forgets to 'DE-flag' themselves, they are a noob that doesn't know HOW to deflag themselves or Trion failed to fix the mechanism allowing someone to DE-flag themselves from PvP. PvP in Rift happens by accident so whatever ToR adds by 'design'.. it's better right from the start. Just wait til people hit 50 in a few months (not the speeders now) and Ilum starts to fill up. I know my server The Fatman is pretty chock full.

You know, reading what you wrote about Aion all those months back on their forums when people who left the game or said they were leaving was pretty illuminating. You used to berate people who said the PvP was a problem and said they simply didn't know how to play. You were Aion's biggest Number One Fan and everyone in the game knew it.

Now you went to Rift and you are "Rift's Biggest Number One Fanboy" (your own admission) and people are leaving in droves just about the same time we all did from Aion, and here you are still saying the same things about the game you so desperately hope people will like instead of the one that's clearly better content and future wise.

I really think you should review your Aion board posts and see just how similar you said glowing things and was the head cheerleader there, how it all turned out and how you look at Rift.

If you like Rift, then stay with Rift.  If you want to play SWTOR in the future, it will still be there when you've had enough of Rift.  And it will be more polished by then, too.

More generally, don't quit a game you like for the sake of leaving to play some other game.  If you end up liking the other game, you don't really gain much.  If you don't like the other game, then you have to slink back to the previous game and it's harder to get back into things.

Now, I'm not an old Rift player, and don't have much interest in either Rift or SWTOR.  But that's just general game advice.

---

Originally posted by sanosukex

- with the veteran rewards you can just summon a personal vedor and sell all your greys anywhere you want

- crafting is nothing but a time sink in both games honestly.. im sitting right now racking up the credits from slicing by doing nothing but sitting here sending out my companion while I type this

- fact is endgame pvp is going to be the same

---

Um.. no. With Veteran Rewards you can summon a Vendor ONCE AN HOUR (or is it two?) and sell whatever you want. In ToR, I can kill a mob, get a grey and tell my companion to go sell it and in 60 seconds, he/she/it comes back with my money.

If I then kill another mob when it got back, I could turn around and send the companion off again and 60 seconds later, the companion comes back with my loot.

Much better than having to wait for some hour cooldown. Plus, I could also send that same companion to go do something else and call in a completely different companion to take it's place.

Sorry but the companion system is not only vastly different than Rift, it's much better.

Also, for you to claim crafing is a 'time sink' in ToR now makes me wonder if you got past level 20 or sat there and only crafted the base items or couldn't figure out how to proc your rares.

In ToR, you don't go out and look for recipes unless you WANT to. You get a base item such as a gun. Then you make the gun and by Reverse Enginnering, you get a better version of that green gun. Then you make that one, Reverse it and you get a BLUE version of that gun. Make that gun and Reverse it and you get a PURPLE gun, which is more than comparabile to any Flashpoint gun.

It's not a time sink, lol. It's a way for someone who wants to PvP all day to get Flash level gear and goods while Pvping. I know people who only level through PvP and crafting and they have better weapons/gear (all purple) than the people they are Pvping against or those who just quest all the time.

You don't know how endgame PvP will be. No one does. The planet is there.. ready and waiting. It's all depends on how the people take advantage of it. This is vastly different from Rift where even if the population WANTED to PvP (which they don't), they don't even have a place for them to do it in, lol. That's bad. Really BAD.

Well getting over the voice acting the story is good. Outside the story, nothing really. Um... it has light sabers?

Originally posted by popinjay

 

 

 

In ToR, you don't go out and look for recipes unless you WANT to. You get a base item such as a gun. Then you make the gun and by Reverse Enginnering, you get a better version of that green gun. Then you make that one, Reverse it and you get a BLUE version of that gun. Make that gun and Reverse it and you get a PURPLE gun, which is more than comparabile to any Flashpoint gun.

 

 

Armor goes even furthur.

For a green item you can proc a dps blue, a healing blue and a tanking blue.  Each of those blues can proc a purple.  And then each of those three purples?  Can proc 5 different, even furthur specialized, options.  So each green can ultimately be one of 15 purples.

---

Originally posted by Purutzil
Well getting over the voice acting the story is good. Outside the story, nothing really. Um... it has light sabers?

---

Depends on your choice. I use BFGs.