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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Legal foundation SWTOR forcing subscription on people

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289 posts found
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6822

12/23/11 5:37:29 PM#241


Originally posted by DeeMarie

today I received a lovely email from Trion basically informing me that the information I put in to play Rift for my 'free month' has been stolen by hackers. Name, CC info including expiry date and security code, dob, address...

No name, no security code, no full credit card number.



Originally posted by Trion Worlds Support
The database in question contained information including user names, encrypted passwords, dates of birth, email addresses, billing addresses, and the first and last four digits and expiration dates of customer credit cards.

There is no evidence, and we have no reason to believe, that full credit card information was accessed or compromised in any way.


  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

12/23/11 5:41:34 PM#242
Originally posted by CityHam
Originally posted by Doomedfox

{mod edit}

I'm sorry englihs is my 3rd language, its not my problem you have such a silly spelling system.

 

I'm sorry I'm shitting on your glorious wow in space.

 

Please continue to tab target - global cooldown for another 7 years.

Grats on your third language some of the people around here are still working on their first and they poke fun at people working on their third.........

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1937

12/23/11 5:45:00 PM#243
Originally posted by Gdemami
First of all, no one is forcing you to spend another subscription fee on top of what you have paid already. You only need to setup subscription plan and then you can cancel the subscription immediately if you wish. You will be not charged.

If you have no creditcard they do. Did not even found a 30 day card and had to by a 60 day card. That part in my opinion is just odd. Just because it on the box and comon practice does not make it less strage to me :P

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

12/23/11 5:50:05 PM#244
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by CityHam
Originally posted by Doomedfox

{mod edit}

I'm sorry englihs is my 3rd language, its not my problem you have such a silly spelling system.

 

I'm sorry I'm shitting on your glorious wow in space.

 

Please continue to tab target - global cooldown for another 7 years.

Grats on your third language some of the people around here are still working on their first and they poke fun at people working on their third.........

Well to be fair.. when you're trolling people tend to pick apart whatever you wrote.... it's not like he was being nice lol.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2748

12/23/11 5:54:22 PM#245
Originally posted by Coman
Originally posted by Gdemami
First of all, no one is forcing you to spend another subscription fee on top of what you have paid already. You only need to setup subscription plan and then you can cancel the subscription immediately if you wish. You will be not charged.

If you have no creditcard they do. Did not even found a 30 day card and had to by a 60 day card. That part in my opinion is just odd. Just because it on the box and comon practice does not make it less strage to me :P

I fully agree, it's a VERY strange practice, common or not...

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6822

12/23/11 5:57:18 PM#246


Originally posted by Coman

If you have no creditcard they do.

It was your choice not to use a standard payment method - CC. You have to bear the consequences of your choice. You are not forced into anything.


Yes, I have admitted several times and even stress myself that the process of subscribing and immediate canceling isn't intuitive. The information could probably be provided more clearly and easier to find.


  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

12/23/11 6:00:19 PM#247

Only input credit card details if you want hackers to steal your info and ruin your credit history

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

12/23/11 6:01:22 PM#248

 



Originally posted by SpottyGekko


Originally posted by Coman



Originally posted by Gdemami

First of all, no one is forcing you to spend another subscription fee on top of what you have paid already. You only need to setup subscription plan and then you can cancel the subscription immediately if you wish. You will be not charged.

If you have no creditcard they do. Did not even found a 30 day card and had to by a 60 day card. That part in my opinion is just odd. Just because it on the box and comon practice does not make it less strage to me :P


I fully agree, it's a VERY strange practice, common or not...


 
It was common practice few years ago, but it it is no more common anymore. All the mainstream games don't need your cc info to have you play the game for the 1r month, they don't need your cc info for trial, when they renew old account for veteran come back days or whatever. They used to ask them though. They don't anymore for the large majority if not for all of them. Why did Bioware/EA put back this practice into this game is something i just can't explain, or wish not to explain, i'll let everyone decide what are the reason. Omission, lack of experience, greediness, i don't know, i don't care either i won't play this game. But when i see fan boys flooding and pretending it is today the most common practice, its plain false. It used to be back then, like 5 to 10 years ago. It is not anymore, check any of the few last gen mmo and check by yourself.

 

  Nevulus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1202

12/23/11 6:01:28 PM#249
Originally posted by Mightyking
Originally posted by Lidane

Are you new to MMO's? It's been standard practice in every game since EQ and UO has required that the player set up some sort of payment method in advance. 

 

If you look at my profile and date joined you might conclude that I have been playing MMO's for a long time. It's kind of ignorant to keep pointing that it's common practice and that everyone complaining has the IQ of a cucumber. It's not common practice.

I have been part of MMO's as a consumer since I got broadband Internet, which is in 2000.

I bought the game checking that gamecards will be a valid payment option. Now instead of pointing out how inexperienced I am, and everyone else complaining as well... tell me why am I forced to buy a gamecard now to use my free month?

THAT is not common practice as well, and it will not hold up in a court of law.

lol it will not hold up in court? Yes it will hold up in a court of law, you sir are wrong.

LOL did u even read the EULA? And yes it IS standard practice since my first MMO UO.

Wait I get it this post must be a joke, cause I cannot believe someone is complaining about this.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6822

12/23/11 6:08:41 PM#250


Originally posted by superniceguy

Only input credit card details if you want hackers to steal your info and ruin your credit history


Only input credit card details if you want convenient shopping, 24/7 service, fast delivery, better prices, more variety, etc.

I liked one of your previous posts but this is just silly...

  Pelaaja

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/08
Posts: 714

12/23/11 6:08:53 PM#251
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by DeeMarie

today I received a lovely email from Trion basically informing me that the information I put in to play Rift for my 'free month' has been stolen by hackers. Name, CC info including expiry date and security code, dob, address...


 

No name, no security code, no full credit card number.

 


Originally posted by Trion Worlds Support
The database in question contained information including user names, encrypted passwords, dates of birth, email addresses, billing addresses, and the first and last four digits and expiration dates of customer credit cards.

 

There is no evidence, and we have no reason to believe, that full credit card information was accessed or compromised in any way.


I wish you didn't expose trolls that fast. Baiting is the best form of sports ;)

 

  dbuman

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 20

12/23/11 6:12:31 PM#252

If this was against the law, then WoW, FFXI, EQ, EQII, LOTRO, DOAC, AoC, Lineage II, Lineage I, etc would all have had lawsuits legitimately filed and won against said game companies. But... there never was and they were successful.

 

Now for those MMO Newbies who are fond of the P2W games, I can understand where this makes no sense. But there was a time when there WERE NO Hybrid vehicles, and phones were NOT wireless, and the closest thing to internet was Dial-up.

 

It was and still is a common practice for SOME mainstream games, in example WoW, FFXI, FFXIV, and it is evident that they dont have any plans on change, hell, RIFT is still p2p. to claim that SWTOR made a horrible move is an overstatement, perhaps a slightly bad judgment, but nothing that would cause a lawsuit.

  Gaborik

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/08
Posts: 313

12/23/11 6:15:23 PM#253
Originally posted by CityHam

After all the hoopes these bastards make you jump, the final insult is this, after pre buying and then buying the physical copy, they shit on us by forcing us to give them our credit card information, cus thats the only thing on there mind, to suck as much money from our poor sobs as possible.

 

Any one familiar with business law please tell me if there is a solid foundation for this ?

 

its like buying food at a restaurant : forking out cash even before you get in there, then paying full price before you get to enjoy the low quality of this steaming turd of a game.

 

while the dish is ready in the kitchen, suddenly you need to give them your credit card so they can charge you at a later date, -should you make the mistake of walking to there direction.

 

I for one had little repsect for this game in beta, buying this turd just to play with friends, for the love of god bring out GW2 or any next gen MMO.

 

Shit : UI, GFX, PvP, PvE, WORLD, lol random IP/server herp.'

 

This game is near ready for Beta and its officially, people have been mentioning bugs like the UI for months and nothing happens, -this tub of shit will loose 50% of the players in 6 months.

How has this ignorant post not been banned or blocked.  He's trying to play and MMO that apparently he thought was a turd in BETA yet still went through with paying for it?  Most MMO's require you pay a monthly sub, you dont like go play XBOX live oh wait you will need a credit card for that also.  You would think after this game had a successfull launch (yes a few small issues) that these haters would get on with their life and play a game they enjoy.  Because all the whining and crying just makes these haters look like fools.

  fnorgby

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/05
Posts: 158

12/23/11 6:17:14 PM#254
Originally posted by CityHam

If you stay at a Hotel, you pay when you leave, if the Hotel messed up, you get discount, if they fucked up royal, you pay nothing, if they fucked up the booking and have no room for you, Hotel is forced to find an equal or better place and pay the traveling cost to get there.
 

A hotel has no legal obligation to arrange for alternative service.  They *might* have to reimburse you if you stay at a similar hotel for more money.  And that's only if you sue them.  Lots of hotels will do what you described, but for PR purposes not because of the law.

Contract law in the US is a peculiar thing.  There are no penalties.  There is no "fault".  There is no right or wrong party. 

Let that sink in -- most people have a hard time accepting this.  In contract law, there is no blame, no morality.  Bad faith dealing is assumed -- no matter how much you are counting on the deal, if I can get a better deal from someone else I can rip up a signed contract and tell you to pound sand.  The *worst* that will happen to me is that I reimburse you for the difference in cost if you arranged a substitute service (like a similar hotel room but for $150/night instead of the $120 a night we agreed on.  I pay you $30.  That's it).  Breach of contract cases don't pull in the big bucks unless one party or the other invested a lot of money or turned down other lucrative offers in reliance on the deal.  And even then, there are no punitive damages.

Here, there is no alternative service.  So regardless if BW acted in bad faith, you get (at most) the box price refunded to you and a foot in the ass as you walk out the door.  Your deal with them is that as long as you are playing the game, you have to pay.

And in the business-internet world, no one offers 100% uptime.  It's completely unreasonable to *expect* 100% uptime, and a court is going to recognize this.  If you had an explicit contract for 100% uptime, you'd be paying $100 or more per month easy.  You're not paying $100/month, so you're not going to get 100% uptime.  Period.

I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2748

12/23/11 6:24:17 PM#255
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Coman

If you have no creditcard they do.


 

It was your choice not to use a standard payment method - CC. You have to bear the consequences of your choice. You are not forced into anything.


Yes, I have admitted several times and even stress myself that the process of subscribing and immediate canceling isn't intuitive. The information could probably be provided more clearly and easier to find.

 

 

What ARE you talking about ?

 

Are you saying that GTC are not a "standard payment method" for MMO's ?  0.o

  • Their sole reason for even existing is to pay for MMO subscriptions. 

 

Or are you saying that GTC are not a "standard payment method" for SWTOR ?

  • GTC are listed on the SWTOR box as a valid payment method, right next to CC's.

 

Which semantic hoops are we going to jump through next ?

  Metentso

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1457

12/23/11 6:25:04 PM#256

Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

  Uronksur

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/09
Posts: 306

12/23/11 6:26:52 PM#257
Originally posted by Metentso

Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

  Metentso

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1457

12/23/11 6:32:26 PM#258
Originally posted by Uronksur
Originally posted by Metentso

Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

It is applicable, everybody would prefer not having to give CC info until the last moment.

  Uronksur

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/09
Posts: 306

12/23/11 6:34:12 PM#259
Originally posted by Metentso
Originally posted by Uronksur
Originally posted by Metentso

Someone should study the psychological reasons that make someone feel so attached to a company up to the point of defending practices that go against their own interests.

Sure, I bet it has already been done. Not applicable to this situation, however.

It is applicable, everybody would prefer not having to give CC info until the last moment.

Really? Can you give us a write up of your survey methodology. I'd be interested to know who "everybody" is, what the question was specifically and your sample size. It certainly didn't include me, since I'm indifferent.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6822

12/23/11 6:39:30 PM#260


Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Are you saying that GTC are not a "standard payment method" for MMO's ?

Correct.

GTC are valid and optional. CC is the standard.


Across whole online service market you can find various different payment methods, there are countless of them, but one is long-standing and it is supported by pretty much any business - it is CC payments. It is the most used and accessible payment method thus it indeed makes the standard.


I do not think we have to go through all this again...

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