I simply tired of games being rewarded with high scores for copying other games. When games like AoC , Vanguard or Spellbourne come out, there's hardly any attention paid to them cause they don't selll magazines or have millions of followers. AoC is a great mmorpg, Vanguard is probably the great moorpg available at this time, and Spellbourne simply couldn't sustain itself but atleast they tried.

It just sad when clones of clones of a clone are being scored on how well it stream lined the clone before it, and maybe added a component that has been already used in the gaming industry in multitude of different ways.

When will reviews be about concept, innovation and creative ? Why is the pc market trying to be mainstram ! This review has killed all and any creative  thinking in the American and European mmo industry.

Originally posted by I_Return

I simply tired of games being rewarded with high scores for copying other games. When a game that comes out like AoC or Vanguard , Spellbourne and no attention cause it doesn't sell magazines or have millions of followers. AoC is a great mmorpg, Vanguard is probably the great moorpg available at this time, and Spellbourne simply couldn't sustain itself but atleast they tried.

It just sad when clones of clones of a clone are being scored on how well it stream lined the clone before it, and maybe added a component that has been already used in the gaming industry in multitude of different ways.

 

When will reviews be about concept, innovation and creative ? Why is the pc market trying to be mainstram ! This review has killed all and any creative  thinking in the American and European mmo industry.

No offense but didn't you call SWTOR the best MMO ever?

---

Originally posted by Ashlinde

---

Originally posted by PukeBucket
 

---

Originally posted by Ashlinde

---

And yes, you're right, cutscenes and combat dynamics stand out, but are these two enough to justify a stellar rating? Are they enough to justify a stellar rating taking into account the subpar graphical performance (and I'm not talking about style, I'm talking about shadow draw distance, object count, lacking AA, lacking HD texture options) the relatively low number of open space world-zones, the to-date mediocre crafting depth? 
Don't get me wrong, it's very far from a bad game. I'd consider a 85% rating completely reasonable. It's fun, it works. But it's just not quite the dam-breaker other games were at their time.
M

---

dear god.... it is true and you know it.
there is nothing new about skyrim's "dynamic" dragon fights.... dynamic events have been in games for a loooooong time. same goes for conquerable territories, this has been done time and time again in dozens of games, online and off. Why is skyrim so popular? same reason as WOW... it takes a bunch of stuff that has been done in other games dozens of times, puts them in one game, and does them REALLY well.
nothing WOW did at release in terms of gameplay was unique. dozens of MMOs before it had seamless game worlds (Ultima, EQ, Asherons Call, DAOC....) and i would not BY ANY MEANS have called vanilla wows combat "fast paced". it was SLOW. slow and methodical. vanilla wow had some of the slowest combat seen in an MMO since EQ, which is appropriate considering it was designed around the same principles. what it did that made it so popular was polish and accessibility. no MMO before it was so well designed and easy to get into.
 

---

Hyperbole. Before WoW it was overly acceptable that when you hit an action bar key that you had to wait to see the result, or it fired off without affecting the on screen animation in the slightest. EQ2 was really note of that where the mo-cap action had nothing to do with the keys being pressed in combat.
WoW snapped it up and it's became the standard.
Trying to say otherwise is an outlandish and foolish lie.

---

im pretty sure every time i hit a key in DAOC to do a skill, something happened as a result, typically right away. played the game for years, i think i would know.

---

It'd happen, hell it'd even happen in EQ1, but the sync and the combat in the game didn't. I played DAoC for only 8 months as well and I remember it quite well. Their animation revamp for their spell casting fixed a lot of it, but their melee left a lot to be desired. At least by 2003-2004 standards.

All of the games have improved once FFXI and WoW really pushed that idea into the genre.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by I_Return

I simply tired of games being rewarded with high scores for copying other games. When a game that comes out like AoC or Vanguard , Spellbourne and no attention cause it doesn't sell magazines or have millions of followers. AoC is a great mmorpg, Vanguard is probably the great moorpg available at this time, and Spellbourne simply couldn't sustain itself but atleast they tried.

It just sad when clones of clones of a clone are being scored on how well it stream lined the clone before it, and maybe added a component that has been already used in the gaming industry in multitude of different ways.

 

When will reviews be about concept, innovation and creative ? Why is the pc market trying to be mainstram ! This review has killed all and any creative  thinking in the American and European mmo industry.

No offense but didn't you call SWTOR the best MMO ever?

I changed my mind. It is apart of being a human on the planet earth. I smelled the salt and snapped out of my zombie gaze into vanilla river of hand held rainbows and got back into the grove of actually thinking about how my character works.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Ashlinde

im pretty sure every time i hit a key in DAOC to do a skill, something happened as a result, typically right away. played the game for years, i think i would know.

 

Not exactly.  DAOC would attack immediately, if you weren't currently attacking.  If you were in mid-swing though, it would queue the attack to go off next.  It even had backup attack, so that you could press two keys, and they'd both queue - such as a reactionary, and if the reactionary failed, the regular attack would go off, instead.  That wouldn't work if attacks went off as soon as you made the keypress.

 

That said, I actually liked the system.  We're only talking a queue of like half a second, and I think it worked pretty well.  I especially liked how well blocking, parrying, and reacting worked in that game.  Because of the way animations worked, they were able to give each attack, or block, a visceral feel of impact, instead of blurring it all together like most MMOs these days do.

what?

what you said, and what i said.... are COMPLETELY different.

i said, i press a key, i perform an action.

u said, i press a key, and if im already doing an action, i queue it.

how does what you said have any point to make in regards to what i said?

if i am in the middle of an action, i have ALREADY pressed a key, and i am doing it... like i said in my post. if i press another key while this is occuring, it is queued due to global cooldown, just like in wow, and goes off after GCD is over, just like in wow.

the only thing that really seperated DAOCs combat system from WOWs was its situational skills, like you said with backup attacks. Otherwise, they were relatively the same mechanics. press a key, trigger a skill, press another key, queue a skill....

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by Drachonis

Wow, looking at the forums, and the comments on metacrtic, are we playing the same game?  I just reached level 30 last night, with around 5 days play time.  I've had some extra time for the holidays, and I have been sinking it into SW:ToR.  So far, this game is exactly what I have been looking for.  Amazing, fun, engaging, STAR WARS... I wish SW:ToR was "the game"  for all you mmo-less tramps running amok on the forums, posting your negitivity.  Your game will come, or not... regardless you all will keep bitching  :P

Your quote is not updated, SS or your lvl30 didn't happen... ;)

Just have not updated the sig :P

Originally posted by Ashlinde

Originally posted by Vhaln

Not exactly.  DAOC would attack immediately, if you weren't currently attacking.  If you were in mid-swing though, it would queue the attack to go off next.  It even had backup attack, so that you could press two keys, and they'd both queue - such as a reactionary, and if the reactionary failed, the regular attack would go off, instead.  That wouldn't work if attacks went off as soon as you made the keypress.

That said, I actually liked the system.  We're only talking a queue of like half a second, and I think it worked pretty well.  I especially liked how well blocking, parrying, and reacting worked in that game.  Because of the way animations worked, they were able to give each attack, or block, a visceral feel of impact, instead of blurring it all together like most MMOs these days do.

what?

what you said, and what i said.... are COMPLETELY different.

i said, i press a key, i perform an action.

u said, i press a key, and if im already doing an action, i queue it.

how does what you said have any point to make in regards to what i said?

if i am in the middle of an action, i have ALREADY pressed a key, and i am doing it... like i said in my post. if i press another key while this is occuring, it is queued due to global cooldown, just like in wow, and goes off after GCD is over, just like in wow.

the only thing that really seperated DAOCs combat system from WOWs was its situational skills, like you said with backup attacks. Otherwise, they were relatively the same mechanics. press a key, trigger a skill, press another key, queue a skill....

DAOC didn't have a GCD.  It used the animation delay, instead of a GCD.  The reason you could be in mid-swing, even if you didn't press anything, was auto-attack.  You'd only do your skill attack, after the auto-attack finished.  I remember casters even made a point of staying out of combat mode, because auto-attack would delay casting, and that could be deadly. 

In WoW, and most other recent MMOs, you can auto-attack, and perform a skill simultaneously.  Might seem like a subtle difference, but I actually felt a lot more connected to waiting for the animation, than I do waiting for a hotkey cooldown, and I'm not crazy about this doing two different attacks at the same time thing that WoW does, either.

Now we have TOR, with no auto attacks at all, and IMHO, it's another step backwards, because it puts even more emphasis on watching the GCD, and makes the animations feel like they don't matter.  Its the hotbar that matters, instead, and I find that rather boring.

Originally posted by I_Return

I simply tired of games being rewarded with high scores for copying other games. When games like AoC , Vanguard or Spellbourne come out, there's hardly any attention paid to them cause they don't selll magazines or have millions of followers. AoC is a great mmorpg, Vanguard is probably the great moorpg available at this time, and Spellbourne simply couldn't sustain itself but atleast they tried.

It just sad when clones of clones of a clone are being scored on how well it stream lined the clone before it, and maybe added a component that has been already used in the gaming industry in multitude of different ways.

 

When will reviews be about concept, innovation and creative ? Why is the pc market trying to be mainstram ! This review has killed all and any creative  thinking in the American and European mmo industry.

Vanguard... you mean that game is still around?  I played that game at lauch, and it was abysmal and broken.  Although I agree that SW:ToR has copied the common "mmo" elements that have been popularized since UO, EQ, and WoW; I can not believe that you would even try and compare its level of polish and "themepark" elements to Vanguard...  I realize you like sandboxes, I do to.  But I also like devs to make good producs that work out the box, which SoE has really never been able to do.

[Mod Edit]

Originally posted by Vhaln

 

 

DAOC didn't have a GCD.  It used the animation delay, instead of a GCD.  The reason you could be in mid-swing, even if you didn't press anything, was auto-attack.  You'd only do your skill attack, after the auto-attack finished.  I remember casters even made a point of staying out of combat mode, because auto-attack would delay casting, and that could be deadly. 

 

In WoW, and most other recent MMOs, you can auto-attack, and perform a skill simultaneously.  Might seem like a subtle difference, but I actually felt a lot more connected to waiting for the animation, than I do waiting for a hotkey cooldown, and I'm not crazy about this doing two different attacks at the same time thing that WoW does, either.

 

Now we have TOR, with no auto attacks at all, and IMHO, it's another step backwards, because it puts even more emphasis on watching the GCD, and makes the animations feel like they don't matter.  Its the hotbar that matters, instead, and I find that rather boring.

 

if you read the ongoing review over at IGN he brings up this same fact about combat and lack of auto attack.. I have to agree here it makes the game more focused on you watching your hotbar and waiting for skills or procs(since there is no real reactive indicator) than any other MMO I can remember playing. The less I'm worring about cooldowns and reactives and the more I'm watching the action the better for me.. but maybe I'm just odd..

Originally posted by Drachonis

Originally posted by I_Return

I simply tired of games being rewarded with high scores for copying other games. When games like AoC , Vanguard or Spellbourne come out, there's hardly any attention paid to them cause they don't selll magazines or have millions of followers. AoC is a great mmorpg, Vanguard is probably the great moorpg available at this time, and Spellbourne simply couldn't sustain itself but atleast they tried.

It just sad when clones of clones of a clone are being scored on how well it stream lined the clone before it, and maybe added a component that has been already used in the gaming industry in multitude of different ways.

 

When will reviews be about concept, innovation and creative ? Why is the pc market trying to be mainstram ! This review has killed all and any creative  thinking in the American and European mmo industry.

Vanguard... you mean that game is still around?  I played that game at lauch, and it was abysmal and broken.  Although I agree that SW:ToR has copied the common "mmo" elements that have been popularized since UO, EQ, and WoW; I can not believe that you would even try and compare its level of polish and "themepark" elements to Vanguard...  I realize you like sandboxes, I do to.  But I also like devs to make good producs that work out the box, which SoE has really never been able to do.

Its funny you act like you know anything about vanguard yet havnt played it since launch.

Pretending you know what an mmos like several years after it comes out when you played it at launch is for fools.

Originally posted by Vhaln

 

 

DAOC didn't have a GCD.  It used the animation delay, instead of a GCD.  The reason you could be in mid-swing, even if you didn't press anything, was auto-attack.  You'd only do your skill attack, after the auto-attack finished.  I remember casters even made a point of staying out of combat mode, because auto-attack would delay casting, and that could be deadly. 

 

In WoW, and most other recent MMOs, you can auto-attack, and perform a skill simultaneously.  Might seem like a subtle difference, but I actually felt a lot more connected to waiting for the animation, than I do waiting for a hotkey cooldown, and I'm not crazy about this doing two different attacks at the same time thing that WoW does, either.

 

Now we have TOR, with no auto attacks at all, and IMHO, it's another step backwards, because it puts even more emphasis on watching the GCD, and makes the animations feel like they don't matter.  Its the hotbar that matters, instead, and I find that rather boring.

 

I can see watching the hotbar for the first few levels, but if you are still staring at the hotbar at around level 40.... I think it has more to do with the person using the computer than the systems in place.

Originally posted by sanosukex

if you read the ongoing review over at IGN he brings up this same fact about combat and lack of auto attack.. I have to agree here it makes the game more focused on you watching your hotbar and waiting for skills or procs(since there is no real reactive indicator) than any other MMO I can remember playing. The less I'm worring about cooldowns and reactives and the more I'm watching the action the better for me.. but maybe I'm just odd..

You know what´s worse? Some abilities, mainly instants, are STILL dependent on animations even if the GCD has already passed.

What ends up happening is that classes that are based around positional instant abilities have a really hard time getting these skills off because they will not go off if the previous animation has not finished, even if the GCD as already wore off.

Originally posted by fundayz

Originally posted by sanosukex

if you read the ongoing review over at IGN he brings up this same fact about combat and lack of auto attack.. I have to agree here it makes the game more focused on you watching your hotbar and waiting for skills or procs(since there is no real reactive indicator) than any other MMO I can remember playing. The less I'm worring about cooldowns and reactives and the more I'm watching the action the better for me.. but maybe I'm just odd..

You know what´s worse? Some abilities, mainly instants, are STILL dependent on animations even if the GCD has already passed.

What ends up happening is that classes that are based around positional instant abilities have a really hard time getting these skills off because they will not go off if the previous animation has not finished, even if the GCD as already wore off.

i know people are going crazy over on the official pvp forums about this

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by Vhaln

Now we have TOR, with no auto attacks at all, and IMHO, it's another step backwards, because it puts even more emphasis on watching the GCD, and makes the animations feel like they don't matter.  Its the hotbar that matters, instead, and I find that rather boring.

I can see watching the hotbar for the first few levels, but if you are still staring at the hotbar at around level 40.... I think it has more to do with the person using the computer than the systems in place.

In theory, it should be easy enough to hit a hotkey once per second, without looking at the hotbar, but in reality, I hit the hotkeys a bunch of times, and still keep looking at the hotbar to see when they'll go off.  I seriously doubt I'm alone in that.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by Vhaln

Now we have TOR, with no auto attacks at all, and IMHO, it's another step backwards, because it puts even more emphasis on watching the GCD, and makes the animations feel like they don't matter.  Its the hotbar that matters, instead, and I find that rather boring.

I can see watching the hotbar for the first few levels, but if you are still staring at the hotbar at around level 40.... I think it has more to do with the person using the computer than the systems in place.

 

In theory, it should be easy enough to hit a hotkey once per second, without looking at the hotbar, but in reality, I hit the hotkeys a bunch of times, and still keep looking at the hotbar to see when they'll go off.  I seriously doubt I'm alone in that.

 

especially the higher you get with more abilities with differn't cooldowns and differn't reactives.. PVE its honestly not an issue at all but PVP is when it really gets noticable

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Vhaln

In theory, it should be easy enough to hit a hotkey once per second, without looking at the hotbar, but in reality, I hit the hotkeys a bunch of times, and still keep looking at the hotbar to see when they'll go off.  I seriously doubt I'm alone in that.

especially the higher you get with more abilities with differn't cooldowns and differn't reactives.. PVE its honestly not an issue at all but PVP is when it really gets noticable

Yeah, because in PvP, you need to know EXACTLY when your attacks are going to work, so that you can keep moving without screwing them up.

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by Razeron
58 hours 1-50? How is this possibly worth a monthly fee? I'd be happy to jump on board, but there's no point in $60 up front to be done and out of content before the trial expires.

I had a look at your history of posting its mostly in World of Warcraft so its fair ro assume you subsribe to that game or have done in the past . Seeing as you can go from 1-85 in WoW in a similar amount of time and you obviously kept playing after that the question I have for you is why do you keep playing the monthly fee to a game you can level in just as fast if not faster ?

 

BW is working hard to make eeveryone happy you know

http://torwars.com/

Originally posted by Doozerglue

If speeding through the game to reach 50 in the least amount of time is your thing...  whatever makes you happy. There will be plenty of people doing it faster than 58 hrs, and there will be guides sold explaining how to do it  I'm sure. Probably,  the 200 hundred number is based on taking the whole game in as opposed to speeding through it.  If you take your time, do all / most of the quests, explore the different areas, watch all the cut scenes, and craft,  I think 60 hrs is an unreasonable number. I do think that the non-heroic npc's are too easy.  The Heroic 2+ npcs would be a perfect difficulty in my opinion.  

I think the fastest you could go without using the pvp exploit (that's been mostly fixed) is maybe 50-55 hours.  Fastest guy on my server did it in about 2.5-3 days.

Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by Doozerglue

If speeding through the game to reach 50 in the least amount of time is your thing...  whatever makes you happy. There will be plenty of people doing it faster than 58 hrs, and there will be guides sold explaining how to do it  I'm sure. Probably,  the 200 hundred number is based on taking the whole game in as opposed to speeding through it.  If you take your time, do all / most of the quests, explore the different areas, watch all the cut scenes, and craft,  I think 60 hrs is an unreasonable number. I do think that the non-heroic npc's are too easy.  The Heroic 2+ npcs would be a perfect difficulty in my opinion.  

I think the fastest you could go without using the pvp exploit (that's been mostly fixed) is maybe 50-55 hours.  Fastest guy on my server did it in about 2.5-3 days.

this exploit is for noobs