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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Class Balance Is Terribad

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132 posts found
  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2606

12/22/11 5:32:56 AM#61
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

 

I find it interesting that while you post constantly how difficult TOR is there are others that claim it is too easy. Personally, I think the game is just right on the challenge level and I hope bioware never changes a thing.

SW:TOR isn't difficult aside from the occasional overtuned elite encounter.

  Deskjet

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/10
Posts: 9

12/22/11 5:33:04 AM#62

Never experienced much of a problem in solo quests, mainly because doing both the class and planet quest lines, coupled with a couple other things like heroics and pvp, leaves you permanently 3-5 levels above the mob levels.

I'm just about to leave Tatooine for Alderaan and I'm 3/4 to lvl 33 wheras the level range of mobs on the planet is like what, 24-28?

I didn't even have to go back to Taris to do the bonus quests, I was at the level to do them when I finished the planet.

 

It's called doing the content and getting to know your class. Those of us not pro enough to beat elites of the same level get by just fine by simply outleveling them.

 

It is a bit of a challenge with the JK/SW classes cos they're kinda late bloomers. But once lvl 24+ start rolling in you get the bread and butter skills. Stasis, force push, overhead slash that increases crit ratings, dispatch etc... good times start rolling in. It's not underpowered. In skilled hands both guardians and sentinels dish out very very good damage, you see it often in warzones. With proper rotations to get crits rolling you land hits sorcerers and sages would be proud of.

But it's not a faceroll class, that much is true. Which is a good thing I feel.

  User Deleted
12/22/11 5:38:49 AM#63

34 Sent here. I have ZERO problems tearing through mobs or elites. There was a point in my early 20's when I had tried to rush into my class quests and the elites outleveled me by 2 and I died a few times. I pvp'd a little to even up my levels and grabbed some gear, I use T-7 as my tank. I am not having problem and can honestly say I am no where near the best player. MY old hands struggle with only 2 extra buttons on a razer mouse.....yes, I'm a clicker still sadly

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

12/22/11 5:39:49 AM#64

Did the OP seriously say Juggernaut has trouble completing class quests. Hmm my main is one, and I ve never died doing them. Theres many skills that should not just be mashed, and used at appropriate times, as a Jug, but maybe you should learn those first before you say, anything is underpowered.

Companion has alot to do with it as well.

  paintchips

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 107

12/22/11 5:41:15 AM#65
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

Wait! are people seriously suggesting that you should kite with your melee class?? If you have to play your class in a manor that's completely contrary to it's intended design thats sort of suggest that something seriously wrong with the class...

 

 

  Vegetto

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/04
Posts: 854

12/22/11 5:41:33 AM#66

I knew which were the weakest classes and which were strongest before i chose my class.

I knew Sith Inquisitor and to some extent BH were strongest

I knew Jedi Sentinel was weakest.

I chose Sentinel, because im awesome like that :)

  jerlot65

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/08
Posts: 802

12/22/11 5:45:37 AM#67
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

Wait! are people seriously suggesting that you should kite with your melee class?? If you have to play your class in a manor that's completely contrary to it's intended design thats sort of suggest that something seriously wrong with the class...

 

 

Um, you can kite in melee.  Hit him and kite until your cooldoans are active againa nd hit him again, then kite some more.  Are you seriously saying becuase melee can kite there is something wrong with the game?  I call it a breath of fresh air when playing melee.

 

Back on topic.  i level a merc, an operative, a juggernaut, and assassin all to mid 30's and been having fun with all four in pvp.  i dont really see any over/under power with any of them.,  I can tell you thought like the above paragraph, melee has some nice starts to do (especially in pvp), that doesnt require you only to chase mindlessly people around hope to whack them with your sword a few times.  Again, breath of fresh air!

  paintchips

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 107

12/22/11 5:47:58 AM#68
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

Wait! are people seriously suggesting that you should kite with your melee class?? If you have to play your class in a manor that's completely contrary to it's intended design thats sort of suggest that something seriously wrong with the class...

 

 

Um, you can kite in melee.  Hit him and kite until your cooldoans are active againa nd hit him again, then kite some more.  Are you seriously saying becuase melee can kite there is something wrong with the game?  I call it a breath of fresh air when playing melee.

 

Back on topic.  i level a merc, an operative, a juggernaut, and assassin all to mid 30's and been having fun with all four in pvp.  i dont really see any over/under power with any of them.,  I can tell you thought like the above paragraph, melee has some nice starts to do (especially in pvp), that doesnt require you only to chase mindlessly people around hope to whack them with your sword a few times.  Again, breath of fresh air!

No, I'm saying if a melee class has to depend on kiting to complete class quest there is something seriously wrong with the class.

  User Deleted
12/22/11 5:53:14 AM#69
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

Wait! are people seriously suggesting that you should kite with your melee class?? If you have to play your class in a manor that's completely contrary to it's intended design thats sort of suggest that something seriously wrong with the class...

 

 

Um, you can kite in melee.  Hit him and kite until your cooldoans are active againa nd hit him again, then kite some more.  Are you seriously saying becuase melee can kite there is something wrong with the game?  I call it a breath of fresh air when playing melee.

 

Back on topic.  i level a merc, an operative, a juggernaut, and assassin all to mid 30's and been having fun with all four in pvp.  i dont really see any over/under power with any of them.,  I can tell you thought like the above paragraph, melee has some nice starts to do (especially in pvp), that doesnt require you only to chase mindlessly people around hope to whack them with your sword a few times.  Again, breath of fresh air!

No, I'm saying if a melee class has to depend on kiting to complete class quest there is something seriously wrong with the class.

Hmm, not going the direction of an argument , but seriously ,using the proper companion is a big plus, trying to toe to toe an elite with you're a dps class and not a tank class....is in no way showing lack of balance. A guardian with a dps companion, toe to toe all you want, not the reverse.

  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 994

12/22/11 5:54:20 AM#70
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

Wait! are people seriously suggesting that you should kite with your melee class?? If you have to play your class in a manor that's completely contrary to it's intended design thats sort of suggest that something seriously wrong with the class...

 

 

Um, you can kite in melee.  Hit him and kite until your cooldoans are active againa nd hit him again, then kite some more.  Are you seriously saying becuase melee can kite there is something wrong with the game?  I call it a breath of fresh air when playing melee.

 

Back on topic.  i level a merc, an operative, a juggernaut, and assassin all to mid 30's and been having fun with all four in pvp.  i dont really see any over/under power with any of them.,  I can tell you thought like the above paragraph, melee has some nice starts to do (especially in pvp), that doesnt require you only to chase mindlessly people around hope to whack them with your sword a few times.  Again, breath of fresh air!

No, I'm saying if a melee class has to depend on kiting to complete class quest there is something seriously wrong with the class.

you say like all skill have long CDs....

 

also try to upgrade your equips weapon and or armor, farm some tokens, normally I go for tokens when they give me the option to choose in quests rewards

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

  Cameo3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/11
Posts: 234

12/22/11 5:57:14 AM#71

Must sandboxers bring their garbage into each and every thread? This not is not about themepark vs sandbox, it's about the OP's whining about class balance. Keep in mind the balance is fine as it's been the same all through beta.

Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
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  Quesa

Elite Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1261

12/22/11 5:58:08 AM#72

There aren't nearly enough people at lvl50 to make even the most basic educated opinion on class balance for the game that for all intensive purposes has been officially released for all of 1 day.

  ArEf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 255

Just say RF. :)

 
OP  12/22/11 5:58:38 AM#73
Originally posted by Cameo3

Must sandboxers bring their garbage into each and every thread? This not is not about themepark vs sandbox, it's about the OP's whining about class balance. Keep in mind the balance is fine as it's been the same all through beta.

lol.

Which is why marauders have been getting pretty much constant buffs through beta yeah kk.

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  paintchips

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 107

12/22/11 6:07:14 AM#74
Originally posted by face30
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by paintchips
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Draemos
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Everyone tells me to use Doc, so he gets the gear upgrades, and I can't imagine he's a very good DPS.  That said, I don't view kiting as soloing, rather kiting is what you do when you actually cannot solo what you're fighting.  Taking advantage of movement mechanics so that the mob can never actually hit you always felt like a borderline exploit to me.

 

So in other words you don't want to take advantage of the abilities your character has?  Got it.  

Also, I have no idea what your doing wrong against "strong" mobs, but you obviously are.  I see other Marauders rip through them.

You should not have to kite elites just to kill them.  If you do, you've proved my point that the class is underpowered.  

It's pretty obvious that BioWare intended for the snare to be a PvP ability.

Wait! are people seriously suggesting that you should kite with your melee class?? If you have to play your class in a manor that's completely contrary to it's intended design thats sort of suggest that something seriously wrong with the class...

 

 

Um, you can kite in melee.  Hit him and kite until your cooldoans are active againa nd hit him again, then kite some more.  Are you seriously saying becuase melee can kite there is something wrong with the game?  I call it a breath of fresh air when playing melee.

 

Back on topic.  i level a merc, an operative, a juggernaut, and assassin all to mid 30's and been having fun with all four in pvp.  i dont really see any over/under power with any of them.,  I can tell you thought like the above paragraph, melee has some nice starts to do (especially in pvp), that doesnt require you only to chase mindlessly people around hope to whack them with your sword a few times.  Again, breath of fresh air!

No, I'm saying if a melee class has to depend on kiting to complete class quest there is something seriously wrong with the class.

Hmm, not going the direction of an argument , but seriously ,using the proper companion is a big plus, trying to toe to toe an elite with you're a dps class and not a tank class....is in no way showing lack of balance. A guardian with a dps companion, toe to toe all you want, not the reverse.

Not being argumentative but the dev's are aware of the issues with the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight and it's subclasses, they have serious issues which the devs are working on, the Jugg/Guards have a update in the wing. If the devs themselves admit that the class is broken, then it's broken. No if and buts about it.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16452

12/22/11 6:12:24 AM#75

If you want class balance you shouldn't buy any MMO at launch.

Even Guildwars that both had the best launch and now have the best balance had problems with this at launch.

It takes a long time to get the balance right, most MMOs never really gets it, but it usually takes 6 months before they are at least relatively balanced.

We could say that w think the game should be perfectly balanced at launch but I am not sure that it is even possible since no one ever made it so.

  Zyerne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/04
Posts: 16

12/22/11 6:33:45 AM#76

42 Sith Juggy here

1. Select the correct companion. This is really important. Companions are class abilities, you need to use the correct ability to progress. The correct one varies depending on your spec. An immortal spec Juggy (like myself) wants a dps companion so I stuck with Vette. A dps Juggy (*cough*lame*cough*) probably wants Quinn (healing) or Broonmark/Pierce (tanks). I have seen some dps Juggies complain they have had issues while attempting to use Vette, of course they are going to have issues.

2. Figure out how you level. This can make other choices easier or harder. If your the kind of person that does EVERY normal mission on a world as well as throwing in some pvp, space combat, heroics, flashpoints, etc. Then your going to be several levels above the world your on. This actually gives you a bit of breathing room in gear and companions as things won't be quite as hard. Some people can use companions that aren't optimal and level this way, several that have listed accomplishments on this thread likely have leveled this way as well. I leveled like this up until the later half of Tatooine where I said screw it because I was tired of always fighting green/gray mobs. I just did nothing but class quests through the last half of Tatooine and all of Alderaan. This put me at the perfect level for the next planet and I've been skipping just enough to keep at the correct level for planets. 

If you happen to change how you level, realize you may need to adjust your spec/class/companion/gear. It was at this point that I stopped going for just Str/Endurance/Power gear and started focusing on the actual defense stat.

3. Gear is important for SW/JK and their companions. These classes rely heavily on their companions, some specs more than others. They also rely heavily on their and their companions gear. If your a Sent/Marauder using a heal or tank pet and they have crappy gear, they WILL be taking half their life in damage from an elites strong attacks and they WONT be able to keep you alive while you attempt tanking them. For Juggy/Guardian they are generally your dps so you can cover your companions bad gear by being able to live longer so they have more time to dps but the shorter the fight the more efficient you become. This means you should pick a route to gear up and keep yourself and your companion well equipped.

Having your companion in greens or without helmets/earpieces/implants when your companion is forced to fill in key positions like a tank or healer is asking for trouble leveling.

I myself gear up with the moddable gear route. I started off doing flashpoints/pvp/buying/using commendations to get a moddable piece of gear in every slot and I just use new commendations to buy mods for it now.

I also did the same with my Vette. Have gotten her a full set of moddable gear and use my commendations to keep her gear filled with up to date blue mods as well. This allows her to 2 shots normal mobs (2 abilities) and solo lieutenants if I use one of her 2min cooldowns. She does about twice as much damage as she would in the greens she gets from quests. I fully expect that anyone forcing a companion to tank or heal for them would need to have the companion in about the same level of gear for it to work out well. I for example can't see a tank npc losing 1/2 its life to an elite in an attack if it had full correct level blue gear since they use the same stat mods and such our characters have.

Don't treat your companion as a pet or some secondary citizen. They can damage or tank just as well as a player if you give them the gear to do it. I consider my character and Vette as a duo (may be easier as I actually like the Vette character). I'll choose a bigger upgrade for Vette over a smaller one for myself if it is an option because overall its a bigger upgrade for my leveling ability. Possibly harder to do if you actually hate your companion your forced to use cause of your class/spec.

  bobfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1626

12/22/11 6:43:43 AM#77
Originally posted by Zyerne

1. Select the correct companion. This is really important. Companions are class abilities, you need to use the correct ability to progress. The correct one varies depending on your spec. An immortal spec Juggy (like myself) wants a dps companion so I stuck with Vette. A dps Juggy (*cough*lame*cough*) probably wants Quinn (healing) or Broonmark/Pierce (tanks). I have seen some dps Juggies complain they have had issues while attempting to use Vette, of course they are going to have issues.

 

This is, without doubt, the most important thing in this thread.

Read it, learn from it, apply it and be more capable. It may not make you happy though :)

 

I wish BioWare would go back to companion kits though, the ability to have your companion take on different roles would alleviate a lot of these problems, because then people could adventure with whatever companion they wanted, rather than being forced to use a particular one.

  NasherUK

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 468

12/22/11 7:02:15 AM#78

The classes are pretty balanced, but you need to use the right companion for your spec and the situation.  If your a tank spec don't use a companion which is also a tank, use a healer or dps.  If your a dps spec use a healer or tank etc.  If you don't play it right you will have problems as ANY class.

 

This isn't wow, you can't just launch yourself in to the middle of 10 mobs and roll your face across your keyboard until you win :P

  SanHor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 342

12/22/11 7:06:18 AM#79

Is there a class that could stand on its own without having to rely on companion all the time?

  melmoth1

Novice Member

Joined: 4/05/07
Posts: 765

The body cleans itself

12/22/11 7:13:26 AM#80

Balance at launch?

I haven't even seen balance in games that are years old. Just a constant tweaking and some balancing that causes inbalancing with others.

I enjoyed pvp and I was one of the inbalanced classes (melee tanking).

Some things are just endless push and shove with no balance ever achieved.

And you want absolute balance at mother-fucking launch?

It's like with my demi glace sauce.

It's like with my beer drinking.

It's like with Hearts FC versus Hibernian FC.

It's like with horror movies (which I like) and romantic comedies (which my wife likes)

There is never any balance. Learn to embrace it. Your time will come.

 

Regards

 

Melmoth

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