Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

Sentinel / marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny. They can barely complete (and, in some cases, CANNOT complete) their class quests because of how squishy they are for a melee class. In all fairness, the juggernaut / guardian is also hopelessly underpowered.

Compare that with sniper / gunslinger (which I recently switched to) and it's just... light and day. You're a medium armour (like the sentinel/marauder) wearer but you have cover which provides a lot of range defence and you have range attacks and you do massive burst damage. Take down elites etc with ease, and most of the time you don't have to be in cover!

Of course, say this on the main forums and you get called a noob that doesn't know how to play. ._.

Anyone else got beef about class balance?

I've had no trouble completing my class quests as a Marauder so far, and I'm level 14. My character actually feels quite powerful.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

Sentinel / marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny. They can barely complete (and, in some cases, CANNOT complete) their class quests because of how squishy they are for a melee class. In all fairness, the juggernaut / guardian is also hopelessly underpowered.

Compare that with sniper / gunslinger (which I recently switched to) and it's just... light and day. You're a medium armour (like the sentinel/marauder) wearer but you have cover which provides a lot of range defence and you have range attacks and you do massive burst damage. Take down elites etc with ease, and most of the time you don't have to be in cover!

Of course, say this on the main forums and you get called a noob that doesn't know how to play. ._.

Anyone else got beef about class balance?

I've had no trouble completing my class quests as a Marauder so far, and I'm level 14. My character actually feels quite powerful.

I don't play a Sentinel myself, but I've had to help out a few Sentinels in their 20s with bosses in their class quests. I also noticed that 30+ is significantly harder than the early levels (not difficult really, just a big difference). This posed a small problem for me in one of my class quests as a Shadow tank with a healer companion, so I can imagine it could be worse for a Sentinel or any other dps class.

If you think Juggertaut is underpowered, you are playing it wrong.

Marauder can be very effective at max level especially. They are more than just dps.

Low level Marauders are hard to stay alive with at times. They are "late bloomers"

The classes are all really balanced at 50.  Low lvl some classes do have some problems till theyn gets ome of their more potent skills.  But over all they are fairly balanced. 

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

Sentinel / marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny. They can barely complete (and, in some cases, CANNOT complete) their class quests because of how squishy they are for a melee class. In all fairness, the juggernaut / guardian is also hopelessly underpowered.

Compare that with sniper / gunslinger (which I recently switched to) and it's just... light and day. You're a medium armour (like the sentinel/marauder) wearer but you have cover which provides a lot of range defence and you have range attacks and you do massive burst damage. Take down elites etc with ease, and most of the time you don't have to be in cover!

Of course, say this on the main forums and you get called a noob that doesn't know how to play. ._.

Anyone else got beef about class balance?

I've had no trouble completing my class quests as a Marauder so far, and I'm level 14. My character actually feels quite powerful.

No offense, but you really can't comment as you've seen practically nothing at that point.  I first noticed that the strong and elite enemies began getting stronger towards the end of Coruscant, and at Taris, I died a few times to them.  Nar Shadaa was manageable, but Tatooine was terrible.  I wiped probably 15 times to this Sith Lord elite for a class quest.  When I got to Alderaan, I began pulling my hair out as now almost every side quest had me killing elites, and some quests involved killing elites like regular kill quests (ie go kill 3 of x).  Even some of the strong mobs seemed largely unbalanced and a bit too overpowered for their rank.  The final class quest of chapter 1; however, was what strongly almost made me quit the game in frustration.  I wiped to that guy so many times, I completely ran out of money for repairs and had to PvP over and over again until I had enough money to afford repairs.

Balmorra was manageable for me for some reason.  I had little trouble killing pretty much every elite on the planet, though I began there at level 34 when the recommended level range begins at 32.  I got a healer companion shortly before leaving the planet, and everyone on the forums says that's the best companion for my class.  He keeps my alive fairly well, though as a result of glitches or poor AI, I found that it wasn't wise to forceleap from a distance.  The companion will run to max firing range and just sit there and pelt me with tiny heals because I can only assume his big heals don't have the range.  On Quesh, I began feeling underpowered again as Captain Jesh or whatever his name was in a quest where you kill him and two droids lit me up like a Christmas tree and not even my healer companion could keep up.  My tank companion did a better job for that fight, but BioWare really needs to teach them to stop standing in the fire.  Whenever you face an elite that places a mark on the ground for an attack that does massive damage, about the only way you can keep your companions alive is to make them follow you then run like hell away and even then, you may not run far enough for your companion to get out of the line of fire.  Either way, that attack took half of my companions life bar and he died soon afterwards.

That's really my largest complaint.  I do not believe that all elites are balanced for the skillsets of each class.  For a single-focused class with little survivability like the sentinel/marauder, some elites are downright nasty.  Because these quests are designed to be completed solo, I really think it is in BioWare's best interest to nerf these guys pretty much across the board or honestly, just nerf them down to strong-type mobs and leave elites to group quests and flashpoints only.

You can say all classes are balanced at 50, and you're most likely correct; however, classes should be fairly balanced throughout each level range and not simply at 50.  Players should not have to slog through the game playing gimped classes for 49 levels just to see them begin to shape up as they reach endgame.  Most likely, those players will never reach endgame as they'll all quit.

classes not ment to be balanced.. ever..

guys.. dont come again to this game with the balance bullshit.. that will just ruin the game. A good game as underpowered/overpowered classes, and players adapt. Some players like to play the underdog, some not.. just pick the class you like to play with wihtout checking first if this is underpowered or op or w/e.

just have fun.

Originally posted by EduardoASG

classes not ment to be balanced.. ever..

guys.. dont come again to this game with the balance bullshit.. that will just ruin the game. A good game as underpowered/overpowered classes, and players adapt. Some players like to play the underdog, some not.. just pick the class you like to play with wihtout checking first if this is underpowered or op or w/e.

just have fun.

Yeah but as the OP states, much of this imbalance impedes upon our ability to progress through the game.

In terms of flashpoints and PvP, I love my Sentinel.  In PvP, I could use some more utility, but I find as I go up my ability tree, many of my skills convert to something that would be useful in PvP.  Problem is there's no dual spec, so I'm not speccing in those otherwise useless talents.

Originally posted by Angier2758

Okay.... I play a sentinel in a competitive guild. It looks like you might be missing what a sentinel is.  They are not a true melee dps... they are really SWTORs bard or even closer I'd say something like DAoC's skald.

For PVP:

•  A sentinel's strength is that the class has a lot of utility and some really nice group buffs.
• The weakness is that solo you're not in your element because you lack punch and hard CC.

In PVE if you're having issues with anything other than gold story quest mobs your level you're doing it wrong or missing a mechanic.  PVE other than a few mobs has been pretty easy for me.

 

Sentinels / Marauders have short term extreme durability.  If a stealther gets the jump on you... you're kinda screwed because they'll time their CC's to hit you while your self buffs are down.

 

So it's not aweful.... it's just not easy.  However, in a group fight you really shine.

There's be no issue with that if that was what people signed up for.

But it's not, so there's obviously some issues.

Originally posted by nate1980

I've had no trouble completing my class quests as a Marauder so far, and I'm level 14. My character actually feels quite powerful.

Level 1-20 is pathetically easy.

From there it's near impossible, as a marauder / sentinel at least.

Originally posted by Evile

If you think Juggertaut is underpowered, you are playing it wrong.

Marauder can be very effective at max level especially. They are more than just dps.

Low level Marauders are hard to stay alive with at times. They are "late bloomers"

Except... They ARE underpowered.

Saying "you're playing it wrong" is nonsensical. Marauder and juggernaut pretty much only have one viable build each (annihilation for the marauder and immortal for the juggernaut) simply due to the mechanics of the class.

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

My dot build sent is now level 35 and I have had ZERO problems with class quests or side quests. I have not needed anyone to help to clear them, and most have been cleared first time through and can  still solo through most +2 heroics my level range. This is roughly my current build, cant check as servers are down, http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/sentinel/#::f3ef2ef7ef7de2fef2e4fefef22.

 

If you are struggling with sentinel, it is a flaw with your approach, not the class; your best companion bar none is t7, send him to attack harder mobs then leap in afterwards and he will draw aggro allowing you to burn through the mobs faster than anyone else. Just yesterday  I had a duo on Alderan trying to ninja through a group of quest mobs who couldn’t keep up with me, where they would stop and med after each encounter, I just kept going sending in t7 , and would only stop once he died and I took dmg I had to heal.

 

Through the course of late beta I also played Vanguard to 30, shadow to 27, and gunslinger 34, and sent deals WAY more dmg than Vanguard or shadow, and just edges out gunslinger due to the quicker volley of attacks you can lay down, although gunslinger wins out on CC. Furthermore, in long fights where everyone else is oom, sent keeps on trucking thanks to the awesome rage mechanic.

 

I will not say l2p, but I will say, you clearly have to change your approach, or find another class that better suits your style, because there is not a damn thing wrong with Sentinel in pve.

And this is the primary defence against the marauder being underpowered: "Play through your companion."

That's just unacceptable, to be honest. They're the only class that HAS to use THIS companion to level.

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

My dot build sent is now level 35 and I have had ZERO problems with class quests or side quests. I have not needed anyone to help to clear them, and most have been cleared first time through and can  still solo through most +2 heroics my level range. This is roughly my current build, cant check as servers are down, http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/sentinel/#::f3ef2ef7ef7de2fef2e4fefef22.

 

If you are struggling with sentinel, it is a flaw with your approach, not the class; your best companion bar none is t7, send him to attack harder mobs then leap in afterwards and he will draw aggro allowing you to burn through the mobs faster than anyone else. Just yesterday  I had a duo on Alderan trying to ninja through a group of quest mobs who couldn’t keep up with me, where they would stop and med after each encounter, I just kept going sending in t7 , and would only stop once he died and I took dmg I had to heal.

 

Through the course of late beta I also played Vanguard to 30, shadow to 27, and gunslinger 34, and sent deals WAY more dmg than Vanguard or shadow, and just edges out gunslinger due to the quicker volley of attacks you can lay down, although gunslinger wins out on CC. Furthermore, in long fights where everyone else is oom, sent keeps on trucking thanks to the awesome rage mechanic.

 

I will not say l2p, but I will say, you clearly have to change your approach, or find another class that better suits your style, because there is not a damn thing wrong with Sentinel in pve.

This class also seems to encourage elitism as this posts shows.  The sentiment on the forums is pretty much, if you don't like the Sent, find another class, which I find laughable.  If it was a well designed class, you wouldn't have all these threads complaining about how bad the class is. The fact that pretty much 95% of the people that have no problem with this class are all running roughly the same build is a testament to the issues with this class.  The other two specs are complete crap for the vast majority of the game.   I'm really happy for you if you're able to succeed as you say; however, I am not.  I raided in WoW as a hunter, so while I'm not exactly a professional gamer, I'm at least competent.  I die frequently to elites and overpowered strong mobs, and I did have such a problem with the Bounty Hunter I played in a previous beta test.

On my jedi sage (seer sepc, lvl 32) i had no issues with any class quests so far. 

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

Through the course of late beta I also played Vanguard to 30, shadow to 27, and gunslinger 34, and sent deals WAY more dmg than Vanguard or shadow, and just edges out gunslinger due to the quicker volley of attacks you can lay down, although gunslinger wins out on CC. Furthermore, in long fights where everyone else is oom, sent keeps on trucking thanks to the awesome rage mechanic.

Wait lol wat.

This is WRONG.

This information is completely and hilariously wrong.

Do some PvP. Marauder hits 700-700-700 over about 2 seconds and I, as a sniper, am doing 3k crit, 2k explosion damage over that time frame (My 100% snipe crit buff, use sniper and drop an explosive droid just as snipe is going down).

And before someone says, "IT'S BALANCED BECAUSE MELEE", no it's not. I can easily kite and outmelee a melee class out of cover, using my various CCs and shiv, shotgun shot etc.

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

NUB; all solo play is balanced around using companions. That's how it was designed, that's how it was tested and balanced and that's how it's played when solo.

If this is true, why is trooper / bounty hunter capable of soloing without their companion?

Eh, I expect to use my companion, but I don't expect to be forced into using companions that I don't like as characters simply because my class has major issues soloing without them.  I guess there's nothing they can do about that though without every class becoming stupidly overpowered.  Similarly, I loved Carth in KoTOR, but he became rather pointless once I began getting Jedi in my party.

Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

Sentinel / marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny. They can barely complete (and, in some cases, CANNOT complete) their class quests because of how squishy they are for a melee class. In all fairness, the juggernaut / guardian is also hopelessly underpowered.

Compare that with sniper / gunslinger (which I recently switched to) and it's just... light and day. You're a medium armour (like the sentinel/marauder) wearer but you have cover which provides a lot of range defence and you have range attacks and you do massive burst damage. Take down elites etc with ease, and most of the time you don't have to be in cover!

Of course, say this on the main forums and you get called a noob that doesn't know how to play. ._.

Anyone else got beef about class balance?

dieing as a marauder on class quests?  you obviously dont know how to play the class then.

you arent useing the heal pet from the sound of things right off the bat, also youre letting things ranged you from the sounds of things, priotize target takedown list.  dps spec (and all 3 trees are dps) marauders can easily burn down targets in pve, solo tank champs?  prolly not, but if you wanted to tank yould be a jugg.

and to the guy saying he dont wanna need a companion to solo, the game was based on useing your companion, gearing it and making use of it, not doing so, and then griping that you suck at the game, well, its your fault, not the games.

Originally posted by neorandom

Originally posted by ArEf

Yeaaaah... The class balance is awful.

Sentinel / marauders are so underpowered it's unfunny. They can barely complete (and, in some cases, CANNOT complete) their class quests because of how squishy they are for a melee class. In all fairness, the juggernaut / guardian is also hopelessly underpowered.

Compare that with sniper / gunslinger (which I recently switched to) and it's just... light and day. You're a medium armour (like the sentinel/marauder) wearer but you have cover which provides a lot of range defence and you have range attacks and you do massive burst damage. Take down elites etc with ease, and most of the time you don't have to be in cover!

Of course, say this on the main forums and you get called a noob that doesn't know how to play. ._.

Anyone else got beef about class balance?

dieing as a marauder on class quests?  you obviously dont know how to play the class then.

 

you arent useing the heal pet from the sound of things right off the bat, also youre letting things ranged you from the sounds of things, priotize target takedown list.  dps spec (and all 3 trees are dps) marauders can easily burn down targets in pve, solo tank champs?  prolly not, but if you wanted to tank yould be a jugg.

When do Marauders get a healer companion?

Originally posted by ArEf

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

Through the course of late beta I also played Vanguard to 30, shadow to 27, and gunslinger 34, and sent deals WAY more dmg than Vanguard or shadow, and just edges out gunslinger due to the quicker volley of attacks you can lay down, although gunslinger wins out on CC. Furthermore, in long fights where everyone else is oom, sent keeps on trucking thanks to the awesome rage mechanic.

Wait lol wat.

This is WRONG.

This information is completely and hilariously wrong.

Do some PvP. Marauder hits 700-700-700 over about 2 seconds and I, as a sniper, am doing 3k crit, 2k explosion damage over that time frame (My 100% snipe crit buff, use sniper and drop an explosive droid just as snipe is going down).

And before someone says, "IT'S BALANCED BECAUSE MELEE", no it's not. I can easily kite and outmelee a melee class out of cover, using my various CCs and shiv, shotgun shot etc.

Originally posted by Hexcaliber

NUB; all solo play is balanced around using companions. That's how it was designed, that's how it was tested and balanced and that's how it's played when solo.

If this is true, why is trooper / bounty hunter capable of soloing without their companion?

'People dont know how to play yet, Its not only spec vs spec its also class vs class

As a shadow tank I can take out the ranged guys pretty well, stealth +holds+ range+heals (and add to thatt biochem super stims and medpacks)

Im a snipers worse nightmare adn sofar the only or one of the rare few on my server. most shadows tend to go  DPS spec.

Every single class can play solo whitout companions, but its the skill to play them to know youre skillbar and know youre limmeds that make it possible,.

Anyone who says a class is OP or how weak  one is, Or how things are not ballaned has no real clue yet how things work.

Im not saying its perfectly ballanced, I'm sure theres some way that some classes can spec just a little better then the other but for the larger part..it doesnt show to me.

My experience is that is has the best initial class balance I've seen from an MMO.  

There is nothing wrong w/ Marauders, but there is a massive difference between a good one and a bad one.  I've got absolutely demolished by one my level, and I've demolished ones that where several levels above me.  They are a class that is heavily hinged on the player behind the character.

The only truly weak "class" right now is a DPS Juggernaut.  However, their tank tree is absolutely great... especially in Huttball.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

This class also seems to encourage elitism as this posts shows.  The sentiment on the forums is pretty much, if you don't like the Sent, find another class, which I find laughable.  If it was a well designed class, you wouldn't have all these threads complaining about how bad the class is. The fact that pretty much 95% of the people that have no problem with this class are all running roughly the same build is a testament to the issues with this class.  The other two specs are complete crap for the vast majority of the game.   I'm really happy for you if you're able to succeed as you say; however, I am not.  I raided in WoW as a hunter, so while I'm not exactly a professional gamer, I'm at least competent.  I die frequently to elites and overpowered strong mobs, and I did have such a problem with the Bounty Hunter I played in a previous beta test.

I have a tendency to disagree.  I've seen several well designed classes that were not "easy" to play well be gutted as a result of player complaints, and it never turns out well for the game overall.

Agreed. Jedi Guardians, for example, are awesome in PvP Huttball. Just have to play as the main ballhandler, and instruct the healers to focus on  topping you up.

As for PvE. I think a lot of people need to experiment with their companions and perhaps approach some of the class quest stuff at the higher end of the level range for the zone rather than the begining range. if you try an Elite boss it is much easier to do so at 28 than 24 for example.