Originally posted by Ghost12

This.

A friend showed me 30 minutes of TOR. Its not an MMO. Its multiplayer, but not an MMO.

"People want to play their game without being bothered by the other players in the game."

Lolololol. Are we in the twilight zone here?

The mentality has degenerated into complete insanity. I dont recognize MMOs anymore. People want to play their game without being bothered by other players in the game? Are you serious? Then why play multiplayer?

Unbelievable. This is insanity.

This game sold in the millions. Talk about sending signals to future devs about where the genre is going. I am with you. Too many people...just instance the zones...want to do story...just instance half the game....crafting too hard and you hate working with other people just give people digital friends and have them go do all the work without having to move

Bioware removed the M from MMO and people applauded them for doing it.

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

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Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Gylfi

Originally posted by nyxium

TOR has phased instancing to handle crowds in a zone.

why would you not like crowds? Obviously i chose to play an MMO because i like feeling among a cosmos of lives.

You must be new to MMOs. That or you find competing for spawns "fun"

 

newer mmo's like rift solved this issue with the open group system.. I never had issue in rift and at launch there were tons of people in lower level areas...

Then go back to Rift?

The game could use some love since it's on it's way out if you read server trends

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Originally posted by sanosukex

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Originally posted by Starpower

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Originally posted by Gylfi

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Originally posted by nyxium

TOR has phased instancing to handle crowds in a zone.

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why would you not like crowds? Obviously i chose to play an MMO because i like feeling among a cosmos of lives.

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You must be new to MMOs. That or you find competing for spawns "fun"

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  newer mmo's like rift solved this issue with the open group system.. I never had issue in rift and at launch there were tons of people in lower level areas...

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Originally posted by Kinchyle

 

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

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You apperently do not know the history then. It started out that way. In EQ, I could and DID go hours without interacting with others. I explored many areas without ever seeing another person. I grouped for certain quests/areas and had fun doing so, but mostly soloed. It wasn't until later that MMO's started being released that were aimed (I would say forced, but that's a bit harsh) at forming groups (EQ2, WOW, LotRO to name a couple). You still didn't have to group, but you had to wait and level before attempting it solo (so why not group :D).

 

Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

I hope Bioware will remove the need of other players and just give me an option to solo everything with 3 companions.

Bots listen to commands a lot better than people anyways.

Also make the combat pauseable so i can issue orders, it just works better that way.

For example you could still group for flashpoints or sth, but just give me 3 companions.

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Gylfi

Originally posted by nyxium

TOR has phased instancing to handle crowds in a zone.

why would you not like crowds? Obviously i chose to play an MMO because i like feeling among a cosmos of lives.

You must be new to MMOs. That or you find competing for spawns "fun"

 

newer mmo's like rift solved this issue with the open group system.. I never had issue in rift and at launch there were tons of people in lower level areas...

Then go back to Rift?

The game could use some love since it's on it's way out if you read server trends

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by Ghost12

This.

A friend showed me 30 minutes of TOR. Its not an MMO. Its multiplayer, but not an MMO.

"People want to play their game without being bothered by the other players in the game."

Lolololol. Are we in the twilight zone here?

The mentality has degenerated into complete insanity. I dont recognize MMOs anymore. People want to play their game without being bothered by other players in the game? Are you serious? Then why play multiplayer?

Unbelievable. This is insanity.

This game sold in the millions. Talk about sending signals to future devs about where the genre is going. I am with you. Too many people...just instance the zones...want to do story...just instance half the game....crafting too hard and you hate working with other people just give people digital friends and have them go do all the work without having to move

 

Bioware removed the M from MMO and people applauded them for doing it.

Oh give me a break.  How could you, as a Rift fan, ever be taken seriously when you say that Bioware hasn't made an MMO, considering that Rift has turned into a glorified lobby game in which you can basically queue your way to level cap without ever having to take a step out into the world and meet people from your own shard?  Queing up for warfronts, dungeons, and now quests?  Really?

It's obvious you haven't played TOR very extensively if you think that they've instanced half the game.  That's nothing but misinformation on your part, and you know it.  And crafting in TOR is no different from any other MMO, aside from the fact that you don't actually have to sit there and watch your toon hammer out  a piece of armor at a forge.  You still have to manage the crafting just as much as any other game...you just get to be out adventuring while you do it.  

As far as instancing the zones, I play on one of the most populated servers in the game, Jung Ma.  Always a queue time of at least a half hour so far.  And the most instances I've ever noticed in a particular zone is two.  That's it...just two.  And I've yet to see any zone instancing beyond the starter zone and the capital planet.  

So again...so much misinformation about this game spread by people who have a vested interest in other games.  

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by sanosukex

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Originally posted by Starpower

 

 

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Originally posted by Gylfi

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Originally posted by nyxium

TOR has phased instancing to handle crowds in a zone.

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why would you not like crowds? Obviously i chose to play an MMO because i like feeling among a cosmos of lives.

---

You must be new to MMOs. That or you find competing for spawns "fun"

---

  newer mmo's like rift solved this issue with the open group system.. I never had issue in rift and at launch there were tons of people in lower level areas...

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I actually like Rift's system. It was simple, and it was an obvious (or should have been obvious) solution and it worked. Especially with larger scale dynamic events.

To be honest though, unless there's PvP involved, I'd prefer having fewer people around me in adventure areas. I like having all those people available for heroic quests and flash points, but if I'm just running around killing mobs, I'd prefer those people be in another instance doing their own thing. I like what Bioware has done with their population management and I wouldn't want to change it.
 

I never played Rift, but I was always a huge fan of the open group system in WAR for PQs, Keep raids, etcetera. I don't know why it isn't a standard feature by now. Ah well.

I am enjoying the game but i think teh instancing Bioware implemented is way over the top i mean i feel like im playing GW

Originally posted by Kinchyle

 

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

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You apperently do not know the history then. It started out that way. In EQ, I could and DID go hours without interacting with others. I explored many areas without ever seeing another person. I grouped for certain quests/areas and had fun doing so, but mostly soloed. It wasn't until later that MMO's started being released that were aimed (I would say forced, but that's a bit harsh) at forming groups (EQ2, WOW, LotRO to name a couple). You still didn't have to group, but you had to wait and level before attempting it solo (so why not group :D).

 

Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

Yes, it may not be "our" or "your" version of MMO. But the problem is....

THEY ARE ASKING YOU TO PAY FOR FEATURES THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY FREE OF CHARGE, CLAIMING IT TO BE "MASSIVE"

One of the original reasons why companies charged you for access to the MMO is for the server upkeep and maintenence, because keeping 1000+ players in one, persistant world is not an easy job.

TOR, whether you like it or not, is a LOBBY GAME WITH MOVING AVATARS IN INSTANCES. Guess what? INSTANCES ALREADY EXISTED IN PREVIOUS MULTIPLAYER GAMES?

Like I said before, Diablo II anyone? TOR is just DII with moving avatars. Except in DII, YOU DIDNT HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY!!!

Originally posted by Kinchyle

 

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

---

 
You apperently do not know the history then. It started out that way. In EQ, I could and DID go hours without interacting with others. I explored many areas without ever seeing another person. I grouped for certain quests/areas and had fun doing so, but mostly soloed. It wasn't until later that MMO's started being released that were aimed (I would say forced, but that's a bit harsh) at forming groups (EQ2, WOW, LotRO to name a couple). You still didn't have to group, but you had to wait and level before attempting it solo (so why not group :D).

 

Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

Yeah, I've only been gaming online for about 17 years now, and offline for a lot longer.  I have no idea about the history of the genre....

The difference between the older MMOs, the ones that were built for interactivity and interdependence of players, and the ones built now is that going solo was an interesting gameplay choice that went against the grain of the design.  One of my favorite characters in Star Wars Galaxies was a Ranger for this very reason.  Now we have games that are focused on solo players, and include a few reasons to group here and there, if you want to.  The current MMO game design is almost a complete 180 degree turn in core values and design.  This is why I believe they deserve their own genre rather than being lumped in with MMORPG games.  Yes, your genre may be more popular, but then so is FARMVILLE. 

Originally posted by Ghost12

Originally posted by Kinchyle

 

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

---

 
You apperently do not know the history then. It started out that way. In EQ, I could and DID go hours without interacting with others. I explored many areas without ever seeing another person. I grouped for certain quests/areas and had fun doing so, but mostly soloed. It wasn't until later that MMO's started being released that were aimed (I would say forced, but that's a bit harsh) at forming groups (EQ2, WOW, LotRO to name a couple). You still didn't have to group, but you had to wait and level before attempting it solo (so why not group :D).

 

Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

Yes, it may not be "our" or "your" version of MMO. But the problem is....

 

THEY ARE ASKING YOU TO PAY FOR FEATURES THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY FREE OF CHARGE, CLAIMING IT TO BE "MASSIVE"

 

One of the original reasons why companies charged you for access to the MMO is for the server upkeep and maintenence, because keeping 1000+ players in one, persistant world is not an easy job.

 

TOR, whether you like it or not, is a LOBBY GAME WITH MOVING AVATARS IN INSTANCES. Guess what? INSTANCES ALREADY EXISTED IN PREVIOUS MULTIPLAYER GAMES?

Like I said before, Diablo II anyone? TOR is just DII with moving avatars. Except in DII, YOU DIDNT HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY!!!

 

This, this right here is the latest way of scamming us gamers to pay more for the same.

Can someone post a video of an starting area that doesn't look deserted?!?!? it's very hard showing my friend videos when he is wanting to see how lively the Sith's starting areas is.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Those of you who have no desire to play a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game need to go buy Skyrim or some other single player game and stop tainting this genre.

This genre is supposed to be about playing with thousands of other players on the same server/shard.  If the game's design or engine fail to take this into consideration, then it is a failure on the developer's part.  Instancing the hell out of zones because you create such a tiny gameplay areas is pathetic.

One of the most thrilling things about a game launch are the crowds of people.  It's exciting and social.  This was the most boring MMO launch of all time, IMO. That boredom continues as you play through the game and only see a handfull of other players here and there. 

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

What does what you said have to do with what others have said? I have plenty of massive-multi-player at my disposal with TOR, it's called my guild and our alliances, not to mention our and their adversaries.

When I say I like to be able to explore an area that is not overrun with players, what does that have to do with not wanting to play a massively multi-player game? When there are thousands of people in an area that is supposed to be secluded and dangerous, it ruins the immersion for me. It's as simple as that.

Originally posted by Kinchyle

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

---

 
You apperently do not know the history then. It started out that way. In EQ, I could and DID go hours without interacting with others. I explored many areas without ever seeing another person. I grouped for certain quests/areas and had fun doing so, but mostly soloed. It wasn't until later that MMO's started being released that were aimed (I would say forced, but that's a bit harsh) at forming groups (EQ2, WOW, LotRO to name a couple). You still didn't have to group, but you had to wait and level before attempting it solo (so why not group :D).

Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

Originally posted by Serelisk

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Kinchyle

 

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

---

 
You apperently do not know the history then. It started out that way. In EQ, I could and DID go hours without interacting with others. I explored many areas without ever seeing another person. I grouped for certain quests/areas and had fun doing so, but mostly soloed. It wasn't until later that MMO's started being released that were aimed (I would say forced, but that's a bit harsh) at forming groups (EQ2, WOW, LotRO to name a couple). You still didn't have to group, but you had to wait and level before attempting it solo (so why not group :D).

 

Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

I hope Bioware will remove the need of other players and just give me an option to solo everything with 3 companions.

Bots listen to commands a lot better than people anyways.

Also make the combat pauseable so i can issue orders, it just works better that way.

For example you could still group for flashpoints or sth, but just give me 3 companions.

And... here you go.  This poster WANTS an RPG with a chat room.  He is clearly playing in the wrong genre, and it's people like him that are ruining what MMORPG games are supposed to be.  It's nothing personal against him or anyone else who thinks like him, but the fact that people like him are hanging out on the MMORPG site and believe they are in the right place just shows how far these games are straying away from their original intent ~ virtual worlds.

I was pretty sure he was being sarcastic, lol

If he is, then his comment still represents what a lot of people who like SWTOR are saying.  They couldn't care less if other people were in the game with them.  Joining a guild represents very occasional grouping and a chat window to them. (in other words, co-op gameplay).

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

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Originally posted by Kinchyle
 

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Originally posted by MindTrigger

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

---

 
You apperently do not know the history then. It started out that way. In EQ, I could and DID go hours without interacting with others. I explored many areas without ever seeing another person. I grouped for certain quests/areas and had fun doing so, but mostly soloed. It wasn't until later that MMO's started being released that were aimed (I would say forced, but that's a bit harsh) at forming groups (EQ2, WOW, LotRO to name a couple). You still didn't have to group, but you had to wait and level before attempting it solo (so why not group :D).
 
Point is, it's not your version of "MMO" that is correct. MMO is just "Massive Multiplayer Online". Nothing more or less to read into it. If it is massive, is multiplayer, and is online...well?

---

Yeah, I've only been gaming online for about 17 years now, and offline for a lot longer.  I have no idea about the history of the genre....
The difference between the older MMOs, the ones that were built for interactivity and interdependence of players, and the ones built now is that going solo was an interesting gameplay choice that went against the grain of the design.  One of my favorite characters in Star Wars Galaxies was a Ranger for this very reason.  Now we have games that are focused on solo players, and include a few reasons to group here and there, if you want to.  The current MMO game design is almost a complete 180 degree turn in core values and design.  This is why I believe they deserve their own genre rather than being lumped in with MMORPG games.  Yes, your genre may be more popular, but then so is FARMVILLE. 

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Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Those of you who have no desire to play a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game need to go buy Skyrim or some other single player game and stop tainting this genre.

This genre is supposed to be about playing with thousands of other players on the same server/shard.  If the game's design or engine fail to take this into consideration, then it is a failure on the developer's part.  Instancing the hell out of zones because you create such a tiny gameplay areas is pathetic.

One of the most thrilling things about a game launch are the crowds of people.  It's exciting and social.  This was the most boring MMO launch of all time, IMO. That boredom continues as you play through the game and only see a handfull of other players here and there. 

It makes me cringe when I see comments here from people who are completely ok with never seeing another player unless they have to group up for an instance.  This is what MMORPGs have come to.

What does what you said have to do with what others have said? I have plenty of massive-multi-player at my disposal with TOR, it's called my guild and our alliances, not to mention our and their adversaries.

When I say I like to be able to explore an area that is not overrun with players, what does that have to do with not wanting to play a massively multi-player game? When there are thousands of people in an area that is supposed to be secluded and dangerous, it ruins the immersion for me. It's as simple as that.

There are plenty of other comments here, some by me, that explain it quite well from the perspective of comparing the original design intent of virtual-world MMO games to games like TOR.  They are almost *nothing* alike.  There is nothing wrong with your gameplay choice.  I just do not feel that it is an MMORPG.  It deserves its own genre, IMO.

You know what would make the world seem somewhat more alive/busy? NPCs that move. -_-

Even without tons of players in a certain area, it would at least look somewhat lively. Paths for NPCs/mobs please.

Originally posted by rawfox

One of these Ms in MMOs points us to massive.

By massive, it is meant as a massive amount of players.

So where are you all ?

Where is the massive populated launch festivities in all the cantinas over the universe ?

We have confirmed millions of players, we have FULL servers but when you join in, you barely see more then 5 players at one place.

 

So, where is the crowd ?

They're everywhere.

• Those millions are split up across hundreds of servers
• Many players started last week and have reached the level 30-50 planets so don't expect to run into them on the starter worlds.
• Most people are actually playing, not sitting around a cantina chatting. With 17 planets, they are well spread out.

Other than that I got to ask what time you're playing because I run into more than five people constantly. Most people are actually PLAYING, not sitting around a cantina.