@OP

I'm sorry you are having trouble winning PVP with all the classes you've tried. However, to show that there is imbalance, some of the classes have to be overpowered, and you gave no examples how YOU were able to steamroll others with particular classes.

Therefore I submit that you haven't given us a story of class imbalance, but rather a story about how bad you are with PVP despite trying all the classes.

Originally posted by Zorgo

@OP

I'm sorry you are having trouble winning PVP with all the classes you've tried. However, to show that there is imbalance, some of the classes have to be overpowered, and you gave no examples how YOU were able to steamroll others with particular classes.

Therefore I submit that you haven't given us a story of class imbalance, but rather a story about how bad you are with PVP despite trying all the classes.

No no no, I tried several classes and saw a big difference, limited with the lvl but still. Maybe some are late bloomer, but fact is that there are classes out who feel a lot more powerfull than others in pvp. Your answer is typical to provoke instead of giving thoughts for what I was asking for, your own pvp expirience. 

Btw you feel the difference of the classes not only in pvp but also in pve...

Anyway, seems like this operative class doesnt plays like a rogue and you cant rely on your melee. Its like a hybrid class. I was opening always from stealth with my melee, yeah I have to learn this class since its a new combination and options in comparison to the classic stealther classes...most have to find out whats up with their own class since the game is new. Best advice is anyway to play at least some of the classes to a certain low lvl, thats how you learn at least a bit about how other classes works.

Thx for the contribution, always intersting to read the expirience of others.

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by alexmino

I hate huttball.

Hate hate hate hate hate, my team never tries to score, they just try to kill people in the middle, and then we lose, over and over and over again.

 

Take three friends with you. Makes a big difference. Passing is key.

OMG I absolutely LOVE Huttball, of course I'm a Jedi Guardian (running back), just give me the ball and block for me, I'll get it thru!

I disagree that the PVP is "awful". The best? nah, but certainly not near the worst I've seen.

Originally posted by spizz

...balanced in lower levels, really that bad omg. Dont know what to say..what a joke.

 

Was testing different classes, also the agent melee operative. Dooh the weakest class i played so far, you get steamrolled by lots of other ones. Weak backstab dmg out of stealth and some kind of class where you have to use a rifle in close combat, since your melee dmg isnt that high.  I dont get it why classes are that unbalanced in the first 20 levels and i dont believe that classes will really balanced at 50, just looking at their abilities. 

What classes are you playing and whats your pvp expirience so far ?

Ya...to be expected :-)

I think the pvp is great. I love it. I play a Sith Assassin, currently 27, I get facerolled by bounty hunters but I can do well against everything else, except maybe chain CC.

I've always hated PvP because I've always sucked at it.  And still do.  And I also hate PvPers.  And I hate any word that has two "P's" in it because it reminds me of PvP.  I hate the word, "pipe" because of that.  

That being said, I really like TOR PvP, and I actually make sure to do some every day.  I even rolled on a PvP server because I enjoyed it so much.  So take my carebear opinion for what it's worth.  

My one complaint is that I've experienced quite a bit of lag in the warzones. I hope that gets adressed, because I'm bad enough without the lag.  

What I don't understand about PvP is the absence of some very simple, yet very important features.

For example...

You can't see the damage/heal/kill/deaths "score" chart until the end of the game. 

You can't pick which battleground to queue for so you randomly get put into one.

The battlegrounds aren't tiered so you get to play with level 50's with full talent trees and all their skills at level 11!

Respeccing can be VERY expensive, so if you think you're going to spec heal for PvP and then spec DPS afterwards, you better have a lot of money!

Seriously, on all of these I say a big...WTF!!!  I was actually shocked to see that the game was missing these features.  They have been in EVERY other MMO with battlegrounds that I've played since like 2007.  And it's what?  Almost 2012 now??

P.S. (edit)

The PvP in this game actually made me want to play Rift again sadly enough.  And I quit that game after like a month and never looked back.  I never realized how much I liked features like tiered battlegrounds and a flipping scoreboard until they were taken away from me.

Originally posted by Creslin321

What I don't understand about PvP is the absence of some very simple, yet very important features.

For example...

You can't see the damage/heal/kill/deaths "score" chart until the end of the game. 

You can't pick which battleground to queue for so you randomly get put into one.

The battlegrounds aren't tiered so you get to play with level 50's with full talent trees and all their skills at level 11!

Respeccing can be VERY expensive, so if you think you're going to spec heal for PvP and then spec DPS afterwards, you better have a lot of money!

Seriously, on all of these I say a big...WTF!!!  I was actually shocked to see that the game was missing these features.  They have been in EVERY other MMO with battlegrounds that I've played since like 2007.  And it's what?  Almost 2012 now??

1) If you're reading the damage/heal/deaths during a match, I hope you aren't on my team.  Why would you need to see it at any other time aside from the end of the match?

2) Agreed about not picking which BG to queue up for.  I think that hurts due to the obvious faction imbalance on many servers, which results in most of the action being Huttball due to there being no factions.  Something that needs to be fixed.

3)  Non-tiered warzones are implemented so that people aren't having to wait in queue for too long, and because they are purposely trying to avoid using the horrible Cross-Server PvP mechanic that kills community.  I'm not noticing a tremendous amount of imbalance due to the fact the people only use a handful of abilities that are strong for PvP anyway, and most classes get their main abilities/CC/speed boosts frontloaded early in the levelling process anyway.  I will say that Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors struggle at early levels because they don't get a lot of tools to work with until after level 20.  And Jedi Consulars and Sith Inquisitors do very well because they DO get a lot of great tools early on that others have to wait a bit for.  I'd always suggest waiting until mid-late teens to jump into warzones, but aside from a few exceptions, nobody is at a terrible disadvantage due to the bolster effect.  

4)  As far as respeccing, I'm not sure why it would be necessary to do for PvP.  There are relatively few PvP-specific abilities in this game, and they all have PvE benefits as well.  Also, the classes in this game don't play out like classes in other Trinity games.  Healers can do spike damage.  Tanks can put a hurting on people as well as utilizing the (dare I say, innovative?) "Guard" ability that actually protects their teammates during a PvP battle.  And there are all different types of DPS classes that have the ability to heal, and have different forms of dps that is viable in PvP.  So there is no reason for someone to need to respec in this game strictly for PvP if they are basing that respec on performance.  All classes, and all roles, can perform a very valuable role in PvP.  The only reason someone would respec is if they have a pre-conceived notion that certain roles can't perform well in PvP based on past experience.  To that end, duel-speccing will be added to the game within a few months anyway.  

People like to complain about all these "standard" MMO features missing from the game, but the only reason many of those features are standard in other MMOs is because those MMOs are fundamentally flawed to a degree that they need those features.  Yes, TOR is missing some things, but most of them there is a reason for, and BW has designed their game to not actually NEED certain features that other MMOs have. 

Honestly, I find it hard to take people seriously who think that TOR's PvP is actually balanced. One only has to look at the charts to see the same 3 classes dominating over and over. Sorc, Assassin, Sniper. Over, and over.

I've also noticed that classes tend to do better in different pvp maps (which is fine), but since the only warzone that Qs most of the time is huttball, you get the above result. It is a very unfriendly map towards melee players. It is FAR too easy to toss off melee players like they are nothing. It does start to get a little bit better around 20-30, but then it gets even worse after that, as the above classes get even more insane DPS, CC, and Utility/Survival skills.

While it's true that it's possible to top the charts with any class, this doesn't mean the game is balanced. If you have evenly skilled players on both sides, see which ones come up top most often. The only real difference is as it gets closer to endgame, Juggs start to creep up in there, as they can be very good for objectives, and you can guard spam people for support contribution points, while they also have some pretty decent dps for a tank class.

Basically, just look at the skills. Ranged classes have dps, cc, and many also have heals / utility. melee have damage, almost no cc, and a little utility (much of which have longer CDs). I can't even count the number of times I've been CCed to death as a melee character (even popping the 2min CC breaking skill doesn't matter much). The survivability / damage that SHOULD make up for this offset just isn't really there.

The game is most definitely balanced around PvE, and NOT PvP. This is already an issue, but since PvP isn't really being focused on atm, it will be on the backburner for a while until more people start to participate this (especially @ endgame).

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, I find it hard to take people seriously who think that TOR's PvP is actually balanced. One only has to look at the charts to see the same 3 classes dominating over and over. Sorc, Assassin, Sniper. Over, and over.

I've also noticed that classes tend to do better in different pvp maps (which is fine), but since the only warzone that Qs most of the time is huttball, you get the above result. It is a very unfriendly map towards melee players. It is FAR too easy to toss off melee players like they are nothing. It does start to get a little bit better around 20-30, but then it gets even worse after that, as the above classes get even more insane DPS, CC, and Utility/Survival skills.

While it's true that it's possible to top the charts with any class, this doesn't mean the game is balanced. If you have evenly skilled players on both sides, see which ones come up top most often. The only real difference is as it gets closer to endgame, Juggs start to creep up in there, as they can be very good for objectives, and you can guard spam people for support contribution points, while they also have some pretty decent dps for a tank class.

Basically, just look at the skills. Ranged classes have dps, cc, and many also have heals / utility. melee have damage, almost no cc, and a little utility (much of which have longer CDs). I can't even count the number of times I've been CCed to death as a melee character (even popping the 2min CC breaking skill doesn't matter much). The survivability / damage that SHOULD make up for this offset just isn't really there.

The game is most definitely balanced around PvE, and NOT PvP. This is already an issue, but since PvP isn't really being focused on atm, it will be on the backburner for a while until more people start to participate this (especially @ endgame).

Don't most games have to go through some type of balancing after launch anyways? I am sure it will work out at some point and other classes will start to shine in pvp too.

Lets face it. There will never be another MMO with good PvP again. Those days died with DaoC. Not even the mighty WoW had good pvp and it still doesn't

Originally posted by Creslin321

What I don't understand about PvP is the absence of some very simple, yet very important features.

For example...

You can't see the damage/heal/kill/deaths "score" chart until the end of the game. 

You can't pick which battleground to queue for so you randomly get put into one.

The battlegrounds aren't tiered so you get to play with level 50's with full talent trees and all their skills at level 11!

Respeccing can be VERY expensive, so if you think you're going to spec heal for PvP and then spec DPS afterwards, you better have a lot of money!

Seriously, on all of these I say a big...WTF!!!  I was actually shocked to see that the game was missing these features.  They have been in EVERY other MMO with battlegrounds that I've played since like 2007.  And it's what?  Almost 2012 now??

P.S. (edit)

The PvP in this game actually made me want to play Rift again sadly enough.  And I quit that game after like a month and never looked back.  I never realized how much I liked features like tiered battlegrounds and a flipping scoreboard until they were taken away from me.

Here is how I see the things you mentioned, just my opinionon them anyway.

1) Play the match to win as a team, stop playing to get yourself at the top of a chart. If you're good, your fellow players will vote you MVP. There is no 'I' in TEAM.

2) Battlegrounds should be randomly selected, this keeps people from picking the ones that allow them the fastest and easiest route to farming rep/xp gains. These are supposed ot be fun, not a mathmatical method of power leveling or proving your epeen size.

3) If you're good, you wont see too many points where the higher level people out do you just because they are that. The only way to get better is to challenge yourself, playing against people equal or lesser than you are is not a challenge. Use the experience you gain from playing with higher level characters to make yourself a better player. When you hit 50 you will thank youself for this.

4) This is an RPG game not just an MMO like so many before it. You should be playing your character, not respeccin to something different every 30 minutes to suite the environment you're in at that time. If you are playing a character that is a force wielding killer every waking minute of every day in thier 'real' life, you should continue to be a force wielding killer in these matches. This practice of respeccin to suite the environment completely removes the 'character' aspect you play as you LIVE in an RPG. Be who you are, play it, always...not just when it suites your needs.

Honestly, the one thing I see that has shocked you is that you expected SW:TOR to be an MMO, all about the mechanics, a game that is built around tweaking numbers and stats, building the right mathmatical formula in order to give yourself the edge against the other players around you. The thing is though, SW:TOR is an MMORPG - it really does have those three letters RPG in it...the one thing most of you have totally forgotten about over the past several years.

Im not a PvP but im haveing a good time with it. Mainly im a PvE though.

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Creslin321

What I don't understand about PvP is the absence of some very simple, yet very important features.

For example...

You can't see the damage/heal/kill/deaths "score" chart until the end of the game. 

You can't pick which battleground to queue for so you randomly get put into one.

The battlegrounds aren't tiered so you get to play with level 50's with full talent trees and all their skills at level 11!

Respeccing can be VERY expensive, so if you think you're going to spec heal for PvP and then spec DPS afterwards, you better have a lot of money!

Seriously, on all of these I say a big...WTF!!!  I was actually shocked to see that the game was missing these features.  They have been in EVERY other MMO with battlegrounds that I've played since like 2007.  And it's what?  Almost 2012 now??

P.S. (edit)

The PvP in this game actually made me want to play Rift again sadly enough.  And I quit that game after like a month and never looked back.  I never realized how much I liked features like tiered battlegrounds and a flipping scoreboard until they were taken away from me.

Here is how I see the things you mentioned, just my opinionon them anyway.

1) Play the match to win as a team, stop playing to get yourself at the top of a chart. If you're good, your fellow players will vote you MVP. There is no 'I' in TEAM.

2) Battlegrounds should be randomly selected, this keeps people from picking the ones that allow them the fastest and easiest route to farming rep/xp gains. These are supposed ot be fun, not a mathmatical method of power leveling or proving your epeen size.

3) If you're good, you dont see too many points where the higher level people outdo you just because they are that. The only way to get better is to challenge yourself, playing against people equal or lesser than you are is not a challenge. Use the experience you gain from playing with higher level characters to make yourself a better player. When you hit 50 you will thank youself for this.

4) This is an RPG game not just an MMO like so many before it. You should be playing your character, not respeccin to something different every 30 minutes to suite the environment you're in at that time. If you areplaying a character that is a force wielding killer every waking minute of every day in your real life, you should continue to be a force wielding killer in these matches. This practice of respeccin to suite the environment completely removes the 'character' aspect you play as you LIVE in an RPG. Be who you are, play it, always...not just when it suites your needs.

 

Honestly, the one thing I see that has shocked you is that you expected SW:TOR to be an MMO, all about the mechanics, a game that is built around tweaking numbers and stats, building the right mathmatical formula in order to give yourself the edge against the other players around you. The thing is though, SW:TOR is an MMORPG - it really does have those three letters RPG in it...the one thing most of you have totally forgotten about over the past several years.

 

Really good solid advice m8.  If SWTOR developers resists the pressure to 'standardise and balance' and thought along the above lines then the game will be in a good place IMO.  Jury is out at the moment..

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Creslin321

...

Here is how I see the things you mentioned, just my opinionon them anyway.

1) Play the match to win as a team, stop playing to get yourself at the top of a chart. If you're good, your fellow players will vote you MVP. There is no 'I' in TEAM.

I like to check my score after every death or at a lull to see how I'm doing.  If I'm trying to heal, I like to be around the top for the heal charts.  If I'm trying to do AoE damage, I like to be around the top of the damage charts.  If I'm trying to spike, I want to have a lot of kills.

It gives me feedback and lets me know if maybe I need to adjust my tactics/spec.  To be honest, I really don't see why you would ever argue that you should NOT be able to see the score.  It really seems like you're defending the game for the sake of defending it.

2) Battlegrounds should be randomly selected, this keeps people from picking the ones that allow them the fastest and easiest route to farming rep/xp gains. These are supposed ot be fun, not a mathmatical method of power leveling or proving your epeen size.

So basically, I should be forced to play all the BGs, even the ones I hate, because some people may abuse them to level.  Give me a break. 

3) If you're good, you wont see too many points where the higher level people out do you just because they are that. The only way to get better is to challenge yourself, playing against people equal or lesser than you are is not a challenge. Use the experience you gain from playing with higher level characters to make yourself a better player. When you hit 50 you will thank youself for this.

Wow really?  If I were a featherweight boxer, I wouldn't challenge myself by going against a super heavyweight.  That's just dumb.  Yes, I want a challenge, that's why I PvP.  But I want a challenge within my level range (weight class).  The dude that is level 50 could very well be a much crappier player than me, but might win because of his greater breadth of abilities.

4) This is an RPG game not just an MMO like so many before it. You should be playing your character, not respeccin to something different every 30 minutes to suite the environment you're in at that time. If you are playing a character that is a force wielding killer every waking minute of every day in thier 'real' life, you should continue to be a force wielding killer in these matches. This practice of respeccin to suite the environment completely removes the 'character' aspect you play as you LIVE in an RPG. Be who you are, play it, always...not just when it suites your needs.

 If it were really an "RPG game" with this huge focus on character development and immersing yourself in the world.  Then they probably shouldn't have just copied so many WoW conventions that go directly against it. 

I actually can't believe you're using the "it should be a more like a simulation" argument with SWTOR.  SWTOR is one of the biggest themepark "gamiest" MMORPGs I've ever played.  You know what else isn't "RPG like?"  Getting instantly teleported to a battle ground, or being able to call a medical probe to ressurect you wherever you die, or lightsabers that cause only minor damage and need several repeated applications to be lethal.

Honestly, the one thing I see that has shocked you is that you expected SW:TOR to be an MMO, all about the mechanics, a game that is built around tweaking numbers and stats, building the right mathmatical formula in order to give yourself the edge against the other players around you. The thing is though, SW:TOR is an MMORPG - it really does have those three letters RPG in it...the one thing most of you have totally forgotten about over the past several years.

 In summary...I'm not asking for SWTOR to be some crazy min/maxing tweaker experience.  I just want a flipping scoreboard, and the ability to respec so I can play a different role in PvP or group effectively.  I mean, did I really cross the line here?  I think it's ridiculous how you and some other posters defend this game in places where it obviously has shortcomings.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Creslin321

...

Here is how I see the things you mentioned, just my opinionon them anyway.

1) Play the match to win as a team, stop playing to get yourself at the top of a chart. If you're good, your fellow players will vote you MVP. There is no 'I' in TEAM.

I like to check my score after every death or at a lull to see how I'm doing.  If I'm trying to heal, I like to be around the top for the heal charts.  If I'm trying to do AoE damage, I like to be around the top of the damage charts.  If I'm trying to spike, I want to have a lot of kills.

It gives me feedback and lets me know if maybe I need to adjust my tactics/spec.  To be honest, I really don't see why you would ever argue that you should NOT be able to see the score.  It really seems like you're defending the game for the sake of defending it.

2) Battlegrounds should be randomly selected, this keeps people from picking the ones that allow them the fastest and easiest route to farming rep/xp gains. These are supposed ot be fun, not a mathmatical method of power leveling or proving your epeen size.

So basically, I should be forced to play all the BGs, even the ones I hate, because some people may abuse them to level.  Give me a break. 

3) If you're good, you wont see too many points where the higher level people out do you just because they are that. The only way to get better is to challenge yourself, playing against people equal or lesser than you are is not a challenge. Use the experience you gain from playing with higher level characters to make yourself a better player. When you hit 50 you will thank youself for this.

Wow really?  If I were a featherweight boxer, I wouldn't challenge myself by going against a super heavyweight.  That's just dumb.  Yes, I want a challenge, that's why I PvP.  But I want a challenge within my level range (weight class).  The dude that is level 50 could very well be a much crappier player than me, but might win because of his greater breadth of abilities.

4) This is an RPG game not just an MMO like so many before it. You should be playing your character, not respeccin to something different every 30 minutes to suite the environment you're in at that time. If you are playing a character that is a force wielding killer every waking minute of every day in thier 'real' life, you should continue to be a force wielding killer in these matches. This practice of respeccin to suite the environment completely removes the 'character' aspect you play as you LIVE in an RPG. Be who you are, play it, always...not just when it suites your needs.

 If it were really an "RPG game" with this huge focus on character development and immersing yourself in the world.  Then they probably shouldn't have just copied so many WoW conventions that go directly against it. 

I actually can't believe you're using the "it should be a more like a simulation" argument with SWTOR.  SWTOR is one of the biggest themepark "gamiest" MMORPGs I've ever played.  You know what else isn't "RPG like?"  Getting instantly teleported to a battle ground, or being able to call a medical probe to ressurect you wherever you die, or lightsabers that cause only minor damage and need several repeated applications to be lethal.

Honestly, the one thing I see that has shocked you is that you expected SW:TOR to be an MMO, all about the mechanics, a game that is built around tweaking numbers and stats, building the right mathmatical formula in order to give yourself the edge against the other players around you. The thing is though, SW:TOR is an MMORPG - it really does have those three letters RPG in it...the one thing most of you have totally forgotten about over the past several years.

 In summary...I'm not asking for SWTOR to be some crazy min/maxing tweaker experience.  I just want a flipping scoreboard, and the ability to respec so I can play a different role in PvP or group effectively.  I mean, did I really cross the line here?  I think it's ridiculous how you and some other posters defend this game in places where it obviously has shortcomings.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, my first time around I thought you were here to discuss a game you liked and wanted to play. Had I know what I do now i wouldn't have taken the time to respond to your first post. You obviously hate this game, seriously, its blatently obvious from what you wrote here. And as a result of now knowing that, I will not be commenting on any more of your posts going forward, you are just here to bash and slam in order to make your point of how bad this game is and how you wish death upon anyone who even thinks they might be actually having fun playing it. 

You have a nice day now.

Oh and just for the record, my response was a simple one, I'm a role player who plays (and currently am playing) a role playing game. I view whatever game it is from that persective, I play my character as if it has a life of its own, in whatever world I am playing it in. My character does not know what +39 STR is, it knows that it feels stronger wearing that item. When it is in one of these warzones, it knows it flew in on a shuttle and is there to do a mission, a job, the job it knows how to do. It has no clue what DPS is, or wether or not it is the top healer in the match, or even if there are others around that are healing on the other side of the mission map. It knows what it is supposed to be doing to complete the mission it is in. My character doesn't see any big megatron screen flashing bright light above the center of the arena flor with the score on it and the time left on the clock. It knows only that there are enemies around trying to undo what needs to be done. 

People who are NOT role players, who do not play role playing games, people who play MMOs act and sound exactly like you do above. The mechanics of the game are front and formost the only important issues to them. How are my stats compared to everyone else, am I performing mathmatically superior to those I am playing with, am I performing the role I must perfom in the instance I am in right this moment (not the role I have in my characters LIFE). The concern you have for the level difference makes that issue obvious as well. You are far more concerned with how you might not be the top scorer, or that your perfect match might not be so perfect is you are not 100% equal to everyone around you. A bilief that somehow, everyone in the world should always be on par with you so as not to have an unfair advantage over you. In role playing, as in real life, you realize that life isnt' fair, that rarely if ever is your adversary on equal footing with you, that you may have to try just that much harder than they do to be victorious. That is life.

Anyway, I'm truely sorry if my comments offended you. I was merely pointing out what I SAID was my opinion on how I seen those issues from the perspective of a role player in a role playing game. You missed it, entirely. But thats ok, not your fault, you aren't a role player so it is near impossible for you to see it from where I am standing. 

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Creslin321

...

...

 

Oh, I'm sorry, my first time around I thought you were here to discuss a game you liked and wanted to play. Had I know what I do now i wouldn't have taken the time to respond to your first post. You obviously hate this game, seriously, its blatently obvious from what you wrote here. And as a result of now knowing that, I will not be commenting on any more of your posts going forward, you are just here to bash and slam in order to make your point of how bad this game is and how you wish death upon anyone who even thinks they might be actually having fun playing it. 

You have a nice day now.

Oh and just for the record, my response was a simple one, I'm a role player who plays (and currently am playing) a role playing game. I view whatever game it is from that persective, I play my character as if it has a life of its own, in whatever world I am playing it in. My character does not know what +39 STR is, it knows that it feels stronger wearing that item. When it is in one of these warzones, it knows it flew in on a shuttle and is there to do a mission, a job, the job it knows how to do. It has no clue what DPS is, or wether or not it is the top healer in the match, or even if there are others around that are healing on the other side of the mission map. It knows what it is supposed to be doing to complete the mission it is in. My character doesn't see any big megatron screen flashing bright light above the center of the arena flor with the score on it and the time left on the clock. It knows only that there are enemies around trying to undo what needs to be done. 

People who are NOT role players, who do not play role playing games, people who play MMOs act and sound exactly like you do above. The mechanics of the game are front and formost the only important issues to them. How are my stats compared to everyone else, am I performing mathmatically superior to those I am playing with, am I performing the role I must perfom in the instance I am in right this moment (not the role I have in my characters LIFE). The concern you have for the level difference makes that issue obvious as well. You are far more concerned with how you might not be the top scorer, or that your perfect match might not be so perfect is you are not 100% equal to everyone around you. A bilief that somehow, everyone in the world should always be on par with you so as not to have an unfair advantage over you. In role playing, as in real life, you realize that life isnt' fair, that rarely if ever is your adversary on equal footing with you, that you may have to try just that much harder than they do to be victorious. That is life.

Anyway, I'm truely sorry if my comments offended you. I was merely pointing out what I SAID was my opinion on how I seen those issues from the perspective of a role player in a role playing game. You missed it, entirely. But thats ok, not your fault, you aren't a role player so it is near impossible for you to see it from where I am standing. 

 Okay...

I do not hate this game.  In fact, I want to go home and play it right now.  I am annoyed at the fact that it is missing several pretty standard features regarding PvP though.  I don't see why that is such a travesty, but apparently some do.

If I "hate" anything, it's arguments that try to defend the game in areas where it really needs improvement just for the sake of defending it.  It's frustrating.  I saw an argument on the SWTOR boards today saying that dual spec would "ruin" the game.  I mean, are you kidding me?

Originally posted by Kaocan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ... 

/shrug

You can dismiss his points all you want but they seemed valid to me. I don't see how his points mean he hates the game either.