Originally posted by BlackUhuru

Do you even have a clue as to what that guy did to get to 50?

Obviously you don't. There's a thread about it in the SWTOR forums. He said he wanted to become world first. He said he skipped all VO's. He did it with a friend. He said he knew all the quests beforehand. He said he had been playing his class for a couple of months. He said he did nothing but quests. Seriously, bro, give up.

Originally posted by Sepulcher

Originally posted by stealthbr

Originally posted by Sepulcher

 

It's called a "rational discussion". If YOU can't back up what YOU say, I couldn't give a damn about your argument. Read this, it may help:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/how-to-have-a-rational-discussion/

I almost laughed myself out of my chair at the link you provided.  That is you arguement?  I counter with a link to the guy who made your evidence.  http://thoughtcatalog.com/author/brandon-scott-gorrell/  Seems like a scholar and scientist to me!  LOL

LMAO... the speculations lol

I actually did lauggh IRL.

Originally posted by stealthbr

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

Do you even have a clue as to what that guy did to get to 50?

Obviously you don't. There's a thread about it in the SWTOR forums. He said he wanted to become world first. He said he skipped all VO's. He did it with a friend. He said he knew all the quests beforehand. He said he had been playing his class for a couple of months. He said he did nothing but quests. Seriously, bro, give up.

Ok you win.

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

Originally posted by JPTX

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

Originally posted by stealthbr

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

Dude theres a group of about 15 people on my vent talking about how most of the time they just spacebar the cutscenes now, there all in there 40's and this group i speak of are typical everyday mmo gamers.

There total in-game play time is roughly 50 to 60 hours and there almost at lvl cap.

Don't hate the player hate the game...

LOL, we are talking about an average joe here, not your guild buddies. You think that an AVERAGE JOE will pull out the same 60 hours that someone with all the qualities I listed above did? LOOOOOOOL try again.

They are average joe's and yes they are also guild buddies. Yes i think there will be a group of mmo noobs that run around with no clue and will take long to level but thats not the average gamer...

 

I think the average gamer is people just like me and you and the guys in my guild, and what i'm saying is they will all be 50 by the weekend and there total IN-GAME play time will be roughly 60 hours.

Woah woah woah...

They'll be 50 by this weekend, having played 60 hours?  That's 60 hours in 4 days?  Or even if you're including early access, that's 60 hours in about 9 days?  

You're saying that the AVERAGE JOE gamer plays 6-15 hours PER DAY?  

I'm average.  I have a family.  I'm lucky if I can play 6-15 hours PER WEEK!

That would be about 6.6 hours a day for 9 days and yes that would be about average for a new release.

Sorry, we'll just have to disagree here.  I think your idea of an average gamer is incorrect.  Granted, I have no industry data that I can point at to back it up, so it's all conjecture, but if there are 1 million players, and 500,000 of them are clustered around the median, I find it hard to believe that there are 500,000 people plyaing > 6 hours per day, every day, even for this new release.

My group of friends/guildies typically play 2-3 days per week (4-5 during a launch week such as this), and 2-3 hours per day (regardless of launch or not... I play from about 10pm - Midnight or 1am, after my family is in bed).  That's 11 hours per week (which is almost exactly what I'd estimate I've played so far), scaling back to 6 hours per week after the first couple of weeks.  At that rate, it'll take me 8 weeks to reach end game, even if it really is only a 60 hour game.  Or if the beta testing info (100-200 hours to 50) is more accurate, it'd take me 20 weeks, or 5 months, to reach 50.  This is actually pretty consistent with how long it took me to reach 50 in, for instance, LotRO, which had much less voiceover/cinematics.

Now even if I'm way below average, and even if you cut all of my estimates in 1/2, we're still talking 4-10 weeks to reach 50... not 4 days...

Originally posted by JPTX

 

Sorry, we'll just have to disagree here.  I think your idea of an average gamer is incorrect.  Granted, I have no industry data that I can point at to back it up, so it's all conjecture, but if there are 1 million players, and 500,000 of them are clustered around the median, I find it hard to believe that there are 500,000 people plyaing > 6 hours per day, every day, even for this new release.

My group of friends/guildies typically play 2-3 days per week (4-5 during a launch week such as this), and 2-3 hours per day (regardless of launch or not... I play from about 10pm - Midnight or 1am, after my family is in bed).  That's 11 hours per week (which is almost exactly what I'd estimate I've played so far), scaling back to 6 hours per week after the first couple of weeks.  At that rate, it'll take me 8 weeks to reach end game, even if it really is only a 60 hour game.  Or if the beta testing info (100-200 hours to 50) is more accurate, it'd take me 20 weeks, or 5 months, to reach 50.  This is actually pretty consistent with how long it took me to reach 50 in, for instance, LotRO, which had much less voiceover/cinematics.

Now even if I'm way below average, and even if you cut all of my estimates in 1/2, we're still talking 4-10 weeks to reach 50... not 4 days...

I am with you on this. I am in a guild of about 20 average gamers, and maybe two of them manage to play more than 2 hours a day. Work, family, holidays...

Powergamers will weed themselves out of this game like they do every game. There are already a healthy number of 50s rolling around. I would say the average level of our guild is in the high teens.

Originally posted by Naral

Originally posted by JPTX

 

Sorry, we'll just have to disagree here.  I think your idea of an average gamer is incorrect.  Granted, I have no industry data that I can point at to back it up, so it's all conjecture, but if there are 1 million players, and 500,000 of them are clustered around the median, I find it hard to believe that there are 500,000 people plyaing > 6 hours per day, every day, even for this new release.

My group of friends/guildies typically play 2-3 days per week (4-5 during a launch week such as this), and 2-3 hours per day (regardless of launch or not... I play from about 10pm - Midnight or 1am, after my family is in bed).  That's 11 hours per week (which is almost exactly what I'd estimate I've played so far), scaling back to 6 hours per week after the first couple of weeks.  At that rate, it'll take me 8 weeks to reach end game, even if it really is only a 60 hour game.  Or if the beta testing info (100-200 hours to 50) is more accurate, it'd take me 20 weeks, or 5 months, to reach 50.  This is actually pretty consistent with how long it took me to reach 50 in, for instance, LotRO, which had much less voiceover/cinematics.

Now even if I'm way below average, and even if you cut all of my estimates in 1/2, we're still talking 4-10 weeks to reach 50... not 4 days...

I am with you on this. I am in a guild of about 20 average gamers, and maybe two of them manage to play more than 2 hours a day. Work, family, holidays...

Powergamers will weed themselves out of this game like they do every game. There are already a healthy number of 50s rolling around. I would say the average level of our guild is in the high teens.

I'm just going off what's going on in my guild. Head start people charge the first week and some even took a friday off of work to play all weekend.

So you could very well be right maybe the average joe might not play 6 hours a day but i would guess the ones that did head start have.

Originally posted by dubyahite
Most people have jobs. Maybe not most gamers who luv in their moms basement eating cheetos, but that's probably a minority of the people playing this game.

Either way it doesn't matter. This discussion is pointless. Some will rush, others won't, just like every other game ever.

And your right this discussion is pointless...

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Originally posted by BlackUhuru

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Originally posted by Snaylor47
Two raids, planet dedicated to end-game World PvP and soloing, and a pletera of heroic/nightmare level dungeons.
 
 

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Instance, Instance, Instance and more instance, Oh and dailies and collect shinies.
 
Thats your End Game folks!

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WHOOPIE!!

Given the fact that the game was hugely hyped, that EA-players have mostly had a full weekend to play already and the fact that many people will have extra free time to play during the "holiday period", it's probably not unreasonable to expect that 5-10% of the playerbase will reach level-cap in the first 14 days after the official launch.

A hyped fan of TOR (single, but day job) will easily rack up 50 hours of play in a week.

Not counting launch day sales, if there were 1 million pre-orders then that would translate to an absolute minimum of 50-100K at level cap within 2 weeks of official launch (12/20).

The OP does not have long to wait for a definitive answer to his question :)

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Originally posted by Leethe
It took all of 10 seconds to type "swtor endgame" on my blackberry to pull up a bioware interview about exactly what endgame entails. You can't do the same?

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I guess it's more fun to create a threadnaught on an MMO forum :D.

Well at least the OP is in the right kind of game, where the endgame and not the journey matters.

Yes there is endgame, i'm sure. Lots of "heroics" and 1-2 raids already. Enough to keep people interested for ~2 months. Does it have an appealing endgame? Probably yes, for the people which were still grinding instances in WoW / Rift at TOR's launch. It really seems everything will be the same, grind instances for gear, then grind raids for better gear, then harder raids for even better gear. People will cry for damage meters, healing add-ons etc. Yes the PvP planet, that will get old in 2 weeks, will just become a grind and not a fun thing (yea it's just my oppinion and i cannot "prove" it). Kinda bored of the model. The game will give the people who like WoW/Rift a new scenery, with a few changes, and will offer them probably 2-3 months of fun gameplay, and there's nothing wrong with that. In my opinion the game won't have that "lasting" appeal.

What might happen is that people might get really bored if they grind those cutscene-heavy instances over and over again. I've only played 6 days in beta, only did the lvl10 flashpoint. There, already two of the four people who randomly grouped for the instance were raging "click faster, click thru cutscenes, let's finish it fast!!!", When i said i was there for the first time and wanted to watch the story, one guy just left. I can easily imagine how, even if i won't ever act like that guy, i would also be bored if i run thru the same cutscenes for the 10th time. Not to mention the rage that came from the decisions took in dialogues "NOOO!! I Wanted To KIll Her!!! FU GUYS!!!"  Yes i know i had a bad group and not all people are like that etc. but dunno, that really brought back memories from 2 years ago when i was still playing WoW. I don't want to go through that again, really.

Long story short, i can put my money on the fact that TOR will be content-heavy at endgame, just not the kind of content i want anymore but that's a totally different story.

Originally posted by Sepulcher

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Loekii

Originally posted by VIIKING

More than WOW had when it first come out.

I would hope so, seeing how that was back in 2004, and the market has matured greatly since then.

Comparing a product in 2012, to a product in 2004 is just silly.    That is like saying that the cell phone that was just released, is better than a cell phone in 2004.  

We can't compare a new game to a seven year old one with any more validity than we can compare (new game 7 years ago) to (new game today).

Argument by analogies are always suspect to some degree, particularly when (as in this case), you can slant them in whatever direction you need to in order to fit your premise.

Actually we can compare a game that launched in 2004 to a game that launches in 2011 because both games are available for purchase.  

Wrong.

The 2011 version of vanilla wow is available for purchase. It is not possible to play the 2004 vanilla version. That's two VERY different versions.

As for the topic:

Asking about or commenting on the endgame - nothing wrong with that. I don't know why some of you guys gets so worked up over the issue. Endgame is the most important part of any mmo, since that's where most of the playtime is spent.

Originally posted by simmihi

Well at least the OP is in the right kind of game, where the endgame and not the journey matters.

Yes there is endgame, i'm sure. Lots of "heroics" and 1-2 raids already. Enough to keep people interested for ~2 months. Does it have an appealing endgame? Probably yes, for the people which were still grinding instances in WoW / Rift at TOR's launch.

 

I see your point but you must agree you do need an end game!  I assume by "Journey" you mean level to X, the problem is while that may be enjoyable its not sustainable and offers no reason to play in the long run outside of expansions. 

I'm not saying the gear treadmill is any better, but atleast its something.  I'm hoping GW2 or TSW throw something new into the tired old end game model of AAA MMOs.

Thanks all for your posts and help :) ... I'm glad to hear there is an end game in place even if its the tired old model. 

Originally posted by bloodbone

Thanks all for your posts and help :) ... I'm glad to hear there is an end game in place even if its the tired old model. 

if you are hoping to enjoy endgame, do yourself a favor and  find another game, instances are horribly bland, and boring, stiff and broken animations combat doesnt help it either, so far i didnt enjoy single instance, and wouldnt want to run any of them for second time, heroics are same instances with more hp damage, nothing new... its not yours wow heroic where fights are different atleast in slight way and usually in more than slight

average swtor player is about 5 times worse than average wow player

considering i played healer in beta, and just how easy and simple healing in swtor is, every healer i met in live is just sad excuse of a player

there is endgame, but f2p games have more enjoyable end game than this does.. and for this kinda price tag it will never be worth it

I'm glad Bioware introduced such innovative ways to experience an MMORPG with your maxed out character.  For a few pages there, I thought this was going to be the same old, same old raid and loot fest.

Whew.

End game? Swtor have more content "end game" than any other mmos at release had/have

and ffs the game is 3 days old.

Originally posted by bloodbone

 

However, I’ve seen a few shocking user reviews today that claim there is no end game…… at all.  That’s not to say a crappy end game like a few flashpoints and 1 raid but literally no end game what so ever. 

 

 

Worldwide there must be what? 100 people at level 50 now? I think I'd wait a bit before passing judgement.

What you're seeing is a new MMO fan phenomenom: some people, many of whom spend time here, are more interested in role playing as a reviewer of MMOs than actually playing MMOs. They seem to play just enough (or at least they're good a pretending that they have) to establish some sort of credibility and then it's a race to be the first to print.

And every fan of MMO reviewing knows that you just can't be taken seriously if you're too positive: you'll just be dismissed as a fanboi. Too negative is fine though: that just means the unwary will think your harshness comes from having strict standards developed after decades of MMOing.

It's a derivative world, and this site is all about derivatives. Spend too much time here, take things that are written at face value and you'll come to the inescapable conclusion that all MMOs, without exception, suck ... eggs.

Needlepoint and knitting...now those are worthwhile activities. How many negative reviews of knitting do you ever see, eh?

They have said several times that they are going to keep adding to the game/story, thus no end game.