I agree with you but as with all things there are two sides to the story.

They would have sat down and ran through numbers and realised they needed to attract million's of players to break even and unfortuntely a persistent world with actions that you described are not ideal for driving revenue.  I personally think they are better suited to Indy games like Fallen Earth or EvE. 

I wish the same as you but if they can't make a profit then they can't do it. 

I am waiting for that MMO to come out that has what you say and you know that actions you take affect someone or something somewhere else.  Although SWTOR could be a lot more its nothing compared to the pig which is Star Trek.  Star Trek was an arcade shooter, it was beyond depressing.

Not to be mean, but I hope Bioware does not listen to a single thing on the forums. Rift just got game of the year and they are seeing hits from TOR because it is Star Wars + Bioware

Rift just proves you can give people a crap ton of the stuff they request and people will still treat you like crap. Most of people playing mmo's IMO are hypocrites and I can not stand most of you.

Don;t do anything Bioware is my advice. As soon as you answer one complaint another cry baby shows up to complain about something else. DO NOT DO ANYTHING when it comes to class balance....pvp...pve...ANYTHING

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Originally posted by Yamota
First of I would like to say that what Bioware has produced is not bad. It is a solid game with responsive controls, good UI, well done gfx and sound, interesting storylines etc but every time when I think of this game I feel this game could have been so much more.
Imagine for example looking up and seeing an X-Wing fly through the sky and you would know that this ship is controlled by another person. Then imagine the same X-Wing going into space and docking with a nebulon frigate (name?), which is owned by a mega player run corporation.
In that ship you would have real quarters, no instanced, which player could own and have other visit. You can continue with this thought experiment but I feel, well I know, that Bioware did not at all tried to re-create the SW universe in an MMORPG but just focus on ground combat, instances etc.
Really dont understand why companies aren't thinking big when they have such an IP on their hands. It was similar with Star Trek Online, a stupid space shooter instead of trying to create a persistant Star Trek World which can be about so much more than just instanced combat.
For example, what if Bioware took all the money they spent on voice acting and instead tried to create an interesting persistant world. I for one think the game would be much better as a result, a much better MMORPG that is. After all, what do I care about voice acting? I can watch a real movie if I want some acting.

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I dunno Bioware is not that stupid. They did what bioware does best and left it at that. Why would you expect bioware to make a ccp game?? 

I played this game in the closed beta from the start. one thing i noticed was, every new build made me like the game less. there was a build where practically all gear could be modded (passed say lvl 10) every build after that took more and more away from the game.

so honestly this game was amazing, then the next build hit.... and the next build.... and the next build. now i cant even stand to look at it.

honestly when it comes to the space flight, i enjoyed it for a simple reason. it was cinematic. when you are given free flight you lose alot of the cinematic capablity since you are most likely going to miss anything cool that happens. i posted time and time again a way to make it multiplayer and have each match be different. it wasnt a overly hard method either.

use a multi path, when playing single player you would go to 1 of 4 paths for example. when you switch over to multi player you have other ships flying with you. this could also be used for PVP for matches where your trying to take out the space station.

however this system was ignored for the 30 threads made by the same general people who wanted free flight. and if it wasnt ignored by them, it was mistaken for a "We want Free flight" Thread

Originally posted by Puremallace

Not to be mean, but I hope Bioware does not listen to a single thing on the forums. Rift just got game of the year and they are seeing hits from TOR because it is Star Wars + Bioware

 

Rift just proves you can give people a crap ton of the stuff they request and people will still treat you like crap. Most of people playing mmo's IMO are hypocrites and I can not stand most of you.

 

Don;t do anything Bioware is my advice. As soon as you answer one complaint another cry baby shows up to complain about something else. DO NOT DO ANYTHING when it comes to class balance....pvp...pve...ANYTHING

 

 

lol i hate this attitude that all MMO'ers are hypocrites.......there are a lot fo people out there with different opinions on how a game should be so you get all kinds of suggestions. Someone will always hate any feature added. You WILL alwyas have people crying about everything. ITS NOT HYPOCRITICAL ITS DIFFERENT PEOPLES OPINIONS.

over 20gb.. 4 or 5 different sound packs. almost every quest synchronized. can u imagine the amount of work that went in this game? and u come here and write crap like "..bioware did not bad.." :DDDDDDDDDDD

@op, get fucking real and appreciate the work.

some ppl do crazy stuff when they are bored

lol i hate this attitude that all MMO'ers are hypocrites.......there are a lot fo people out there with different opinions on how a game should be so you get all kinds of suggestions. Someone will always hate any feature added. You WILL alwyas have people crying about everything. ITS NOT HYPOCRITICAL ITS DIFFERENT PEOPLES OPINIONS.

Blizzard does not listen anybody and people WORSHIP that company. They crap all over their customers for 7 years straight and WoW has 10 million subs.

DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE. In the messed up mmorpg listening to people makes you look desperate and people unsub. Also stop advertising because people think that is a act of desperation.

We just need to face it the looney toons are running the asylum.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Yamota

First of I would like to say that what Bioware has produced is not bad. It is a solid game with responsive controls, good UI, well done gfx and sound, interesting storylines etc but every time when I think of this game I feel this game could have been so much more.

Imagine for example looking up and seeing an X-Wing fly through the sky and you would know that this ship is controlled by another person. Then imagine the same X-Wing going into space and docking with a nebulon frigate (name?), which is owned by a mega player run corporation.

In that ship you would have real quarters, no instanced, which player could own and have other visit. You can continue with this thought experiment but I feel, well I know, that Bioware did not at all tried to re-create the SW universe in an MMORPG but just focus on ground combat, instances etc.

Really dont understand why companies aren't thinking big when they have such an IP on their hands. It was similar with Star Trek Online, a stupid space shooter instead of trying to create a persistant Star Trek World which can be about so much more than just instanced combat.

For example, what if Bioware took all the money they spent on voice acting and instead tried to create an interesting persistant world. I for one think the game would be much better as a result, a much better MMORPG that is. After all, what do I care about voice acting? I can watch a real movie if I want some acting.

Well the thing is they platform probably allows them to expand to that extent not sure they will do it but it can happen.

I very much doubt it. Now I dont know the intimate details of their engine but having seamless integration of space and ground with persistant, non instanced, capital ships I doubt is what the engine was built for. I mean even your dinky little ship is instanced.

I mean there is like a cap on 1-200 persons per zone, which is then instanced, so that tells me that their infrastructure is really not built to have thousands of people seamleslly moving around in non-instanced zone.

And dont tell me that is not possible. Eve has that and it is made by an indy company. For sure a big money mega corp could do something (tecnnologically) better then Eve, if they wanted to.

Thing is with Eve it's all in space which is mostly black with very little background or details compared to a ground based MMO game... So lag is more forgiving in Eve due to that...   I think before you can compare Eve to SWTOR, Eve needs a ground based component for a valid comparison....  Also Bioware never said there MMO was going to center on Space...

That said Bioware has nowhere to go but up with content and expanding the space element in the game...  so lets give Bioware some time instead of comparing it to games that have been out for several years....

SWTOR might only have a rails space shooter but that's more then SWG had the first 8 months of the game...

Another point nobody knows the cost of Voice Overs, so I find it funny when people say it sucked up 80% of the budget... Odds are was probably more like 5% of the budget at most if not less... Actors get paid a lot less for Voice Overs then live acting... not to mention it's not like they hired Tom Hanks or Tom Cruise to do the VO's, all the Actors Bioware used are B rated actors at best and most have probably never been in a Live movie and only do VO's...

I agree with most of the OP. Sounds like he played EVE Online. I noticed they did put in a few features that are very EVEish...I think in time they will become more and more detailed with new features.....this game is VERY young and not really ready for release in my opinion.

Originally posted by Yamota

First of I would like to say that what Bioware has produced is not bad. It is a solid game with responsive controls, good UI, well done gfx and sound, interesting storylines etc but every time when I think of this game I feel this game could have been so much more.

Imagine for example looking up and seeing an X-Wing fly through the sky and you would know that this ship is controlled by another person. Then imagine the same X-Wing going into space and docking with a nebulon frigate (name?), which is owned by a mega player run corporation.

In that ship you would have real quarters, no instanced, which player could own and have other visit. You can continue with this thought experiment but I feel, well I know, that Bioware did not at all tried to re-create the SW universe in an MMORPG but just focus on ground combat, instances etc.

Really dont understand why companies aren't thinking big when they have such an IP on their hands. It was similar with Star Trek Online, a stupid space shooter instead of trying to create a persistant Star Trek World which can be about so much more than just instanced combat.

For example, what if Bioware took all the money they spent on voice acting and instead tried to create an interesting persistant world. I for one think the game would be much better as a result, a much better MMORPG that is. After all, what do I care about voice acting? I can watch a real movie if I want some acting.

It's nothing like STO. And this game is just launching. Wouldn't it be prudent to give it some time instead of making judgements against what hasn't happened?

BTW I as well as most I have chatted with in game, guild or outside, have been very pleased. There's niggles, there always is, but overall the responce has been great.

Originally posted by ZigZags

I agree with most of the OP. Sounds like he played EVE Online. I noticed they did put in a few features that are very EVEish...I think in time they will become more and more detailed with new features.....this game is VERY young and not really ready for release in my opinion.

Screw that young excuse. Rift was expected to launch with 7 years of content. TOR does not get some magical pass.

Originally posted by ZigZags

I agree with most of the OP. Sounds like he played EVE Online. I noticed they did put in a few features that are very EVEish...I think in time they will become more and more detailed with new features.....this game is VERY young and not really ready for release in my opinion.

Eveish? Like it not being a sandbox in space? I guess I don't follow that logic, but at least you're not making it Wowish, that opinion I am sick of.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by ZigZags

I agree with most of the OP. Sounds like he played EVE Online. I noticed they did put in a few features that are very EVEish...I think in time they will become more and more detailed with new features.....this game is VERY young and not really ready for release in my opinion.

Screw that young excuse. Rift was expected to launch with 7 years of content. TOR does not get some magical pass.

Don't play. Last thing we need and complainers. Works for me. :)

Originally posted by Puremallace

 

Screw that young excuse. Rift was expected to launch with 7 years of content. TOR does not get some magical pass.

Uhmm anyone expecting that of Rift ,was as off-base as you are with this statement.

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Originally posted by Yamota
First of I would like to say that what Bioware has produced is not bad. It is a solid game with responsive controls, good UI, well done gfx and sound, interesting storylines etc but every time when I think of this game I feel this game could have been so much more.
Imagine for example looking up and seeing an X-Wing fly through the sky and you would know that this ship is controlled by another person. Then imagine the same X-Wing going into space and docking with a nebulon frigate (name?), which is owned by a mega player run corporation.
In that ship you would have real quarters, no instanced, which player could own and have other visit. You can continue with this thought experiment but I feel, well I know, that Bioware did not at all tried to re-create the SW universe in an MMORPG but just focus on ground combat, instances etc.
Really dont understand why companies aren't thinking big when they have such an IP on their hands. It was similar with Star Trek Online, a stupid space shooter instead of trying to create a persistant Star Trek World which can be about so much more than just instanced combat.
For example, what if Bioware took all the money they spent on voice acting and instead tried to create an interesting persistant world. I for one think the game would be much better as a result, a much better MMORPG that is. After all, what do I care about voice acting? I can watch a real movie if I want some acting.
 
 
 

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They said the same exact thing about WoW when it was released. "This game could have been so much more" "See you when you hit cap in a week and decide that your bored. You'll be back to EQ or AO or DaoC or whatever your flavor was at the time." Success breeds detractors. Just saying.

The thing about MMOs is none of them are what they're going to be at release. The good ones evolve and grow. The bad ones wither and die because they don't have the support they need to make it through the lean times. Or they just have a bad product to begin with.

I can't speak for everyone but as for myself, I'm enjoying the storylines and enjoying the game play and the game overall is refreshing because it's new.   We'll have to see if Bioware continues building on the product to make it into what it has the potential to be.

I'm pretty sure Bioware is investing huge time in expanding the universe of the game and this game will have everything that people are looking for.

In some ares, the game reminds me of how EQ2 launched, such as:

• Advanced class progression.  (forced to waste time just to try out a main class) (always a bad idea)
• Too much zoning between places.  (travelling takes too many clicks)
• Cartoon/Plastic looking art.  (subjective opinion, but i don't like it)
• Group content (open-world elite zones and group quests) (this is a good thing)
• etc.

The one thing that stood out about your post was "good ui", it's been one of the main topics of discussion...as in the UI is horrible. I'm surprised you wrote that to be honest.

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by Puremallace

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Screw that young excuse. Rift was expected to launch with 7 years of content. TOR does not get some magical pass.

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Uhmm anyone expecting that of Rift ,was as off-base as you are with this statement.

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I agree completely. I suppose I'm rather biased, though, as I honestly didn't see the major appeal of KOTOR in the first place. I bought it on day one, beat it on day two and wondered where my money went on day three.

I understand that they wanted to make it a kotor-like mmo, but ..eh. I really would rather have had what the OP has described. Maybe I don't know what gamers want nowadays, but I'd rather not have a "cinematic experience". While I do love the story-line (and honestly it seems to be the major focal point of SWTOR) I would rather have a ... well... a video game. Maybe I'm crazy, might be nostalgic, most likely what I want isn't what the rest of the world desires anymore.