how hard it can be? when creating group look for people who will / wont spacebar only ><

Black Talon hardly qualifies as a flashpoint, been there a number of times both in beta and EGA. It's an easy one with no special strategies required and people just rush it so that they can continue on to Dromund Kaas. 

Besides, after visiting the place with my BH for like 5 or 6 times i skipped the cinematics as well. 

Funny thing though, you don't HAVE to do the flashpoints. It's not the fastest way to level. All the people who want to skip should go stick to playing solo. In beta, I did Black Talon and Esseles but this time around, I am level 20 already and haven't touched a single flashpoint. Not because I don't want to, but because of the people in a hurry for nothing.

After EGA when the people not buying tha game flush out, then I may go back and do a few. Mostly with friends though.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by toddze
 

Are you suggesting people didn't know this all along? Link me some threads where people actually argued against such a point. There's no big secret that these people exist within the MMO community, they've populated every game, especially at release. They're the same people who will be on these forums in two weeks whining about endgame. They'll be the first people to quit as well, I'm sure.

The only thing I can think of said that would generate such a reaction toward you would be you projecting this mentality on everyone, as well as stating your opinion as fact ( about the quality of features/longevity/etc...).

Ever stop to think many of the reactions you get may not be about what you say, instead they're a result of how you say it?

If people have a problem figuring out facts from opinions, they shouldnt be on a forum to begin with.

Unlike a better poster I match the persons tone in which I am debating, its got me warnings for trolling in the past, but making outrageous claims should be classified as a form of trolling in itself.  I very very rarely start a debate, most of my posts are comments on other peoples posts, I really dont really have much to say to the cautiously optimistic fans.  But over zealous fangirls get me replying the majority of time. Thus those types cant handel anything negative being posted so they lash back :) and they are all over.

Originally posted by toddze

If people have a problem figuring out facts from opinions, they shouldnt be on a forum to begin with.

Unlike a better poster I match the persons tone in which I am debating, its got me warnings for trolling in the past, but making outrageous claims should be classified as a form of trolling in itself.  I very very rarely start a debate, most of my posts are comments on other peoples posts, I really dont really have much to say to the cautiously optimistic fans.  But over zealous fangirls get me replying the majority of time. Thus those types cant handel anything negative being posted so they lash back :) and they are all over.

I see what you're saying, most of my older posts are replies to outrageous claims as well. I tended to shy away from the labels though (fanbois, haters , etc..) those tend to set an uneeded heated argument off.

At this point I've learned to leave a majority of the posts that raise my eyebrow alone. Those with extreme views are the worst sort to try and have a conversation with, no matter how civil your tone. You're right they are all over, many are on my block list though :).

I'd just suggest saving yourself the headache and stick to discussing things with the sensible posters around, of which there are plenty.

Originally posted by holifeet

So I've just done a few walkthroughs of Black Talon and the most commonly seen word in chat is spacebar...and it's more often than not abbreviated or capitalised.

It's starting to get old.

But it's not just that.

It's the constant need to rush through the flashpoint as well. There's no organisation, just impatience. It's easy, yes, and many have done it umpteen times, but calm down people. Also, don't forget there will be people that haven't run it. Someone may just want to see the scripting and take their time.

Personally, one of the things that I liked in beta was that grouping seemed slowed down a bit. It was a nice change. So many MMOs of the past 8 years have been all about completing objectives and rushing on to the next. SWTOR is currently speeding that up even further, and it's not the fault of the game, but of the community.

I really hope this doesn't become the norm for all flashpoints or I'm going to lose interest in what I think is a good game. I just don't want it to be a rushed game.

Slow down and enjoy people. It's not really a long mission...as some people have been claiming...is it? I suppose it is if 45 minutes is a long time. I don't think it is.

Thats one thing what is different to WoW or other older mmos  for example and it reminds me on the game Tabula Rasa..AoC and such types of games, people just did quick finish the quests in a row without much communication and socializing. There was a huge rush and you felt more like in a single player game since you could do a lot alone and only sometimes you grouped up for a short time. WoW had some kind of soul, more slowed down gameplay....but the world was also a lot more interesting, already in the first 10 levels. 

There is also one reason why such quick quest gameplay exists, its just too easy to find everything. You have everything on  your map, nothing to discover you just get guided on rails...well its a different type of mmo. Its just an instanced world, at least what I did see in lower levels, and not really a persistant world. Game world doesnt suck me in so far, I miss the "mojo", the soul of it and interaction with the game world itself. You cant enter most buildings, there is a red wall or green wall for rooms.."only for xx class", animals or npc just standing around doing nothing...i mean this is not really an immersive world so far, it feels steril.

This is why, despite being a massive fan of Star Wars and both of the KOTOR games, I'll happily keep playing Skyrim instead and just bypass SWTOR. "The masses" are just a bunch of results-oriented lemmings. Where's the fun in playing a game whose very nature is "It's meant to be played with other people, it's an MMO!" when those other people will just ruin the experience for you anyways?

What you're dealing with is ALOT of beta testers.  That and people that were testing during the open weekend.

It won't be as bad during official release because many of the people that aren't in early release haven't played through alot fo the low level content umpteen times.

That and all the people that just have to play early release will be out of the starting zones for the most part.

This is one of the reasons why I never pre-ordered despite knowing I'll be at my local Best Buy as it opens on Tuesday.

Originally posted by Sovrath

I have to agree with some others, stop doing pugs. Or dont' do them with people who are not of like mind.

Join a guild of like minded people. It might take a bit of effort, a bit of homework on your part but people who join guilds that essentially just advertise might be in for dissapointment.

I reluctantly do pug's and if I do then I always keep my expactations sub-basement level.

The problem is I like PUGs, I have done since the days of EQ. Okay so the community of MMOs has altered somewhat but the whole idea behind these games is joining up with new people. It's sad that the communities of these games have changed so much, or maybe I'm just old.

As for finding a guild, well it's probably something I have to do. I'll need to be thorough in my search in order to find the right guild, but I maybe need to draw myself away from PUGs in this day and age of communities of kids obsessed with sex (they really are...read general chat).

It's just a shame that the friendly old PUG has come to this.

in the recent years mmorpgs have programmed us that the END game is where the fun begins. with easy leveling,  fast paced combat, and boring quests. people just want this part over. they want to be gettting the "epic" loots so they can pwning newbies or raid harder baddies for better loot. if they think some silly cutscenes / lore are going to stop / slow down people they are mistaken.

you might care about game lore, but most people dont care about game lore or the leveling proccess. how many lvl 85 in WoW with full epics even know the lore of WoW. not many. or for any game for that matter. how many max level characters in EQ2 know the eq lore.

most people would just start at max level if they could.

hate all you want but its the games and the game developers that set this mind set in the players. so dont blame the players for failed game design, and brainwashing players so that they need to acquire the best gear.

acquiring the best gear is what makes people race and its the "carrot on a stick" that developers use to keep people subbing month after month. to get that next new toy. so this is our mind set now when it comes to these games. even if you tell yourself that you dont take part in it you do on some level, you are happy when you get a new upgrade to your gear. it is just that some people  take it to a next level, and put more effort into it then you.