Originally posted by onthestick

It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.

If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.

I check into the game every patch. It's still not worth the subscription. The damage is irreversible in context of the public's eye.

Originally posted by nekrothing

The simple truth is that charging now is just going to make a dying game die faster. The servers are already empty enough as it is (this is coming from someone on one of the most active servers) and when they start charging people to help fix their beta, they're just going to be even more empty and lifeless. The problem however is that if they want to keep this game afloat, they have to charge.

I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Whether its a beta or not is up for interpretation once again. SE doesn't treat it as one, and you may think it is one and in that case you don't have to participate. Some people don't think of it as beta, and are willing to pay, and their opinion is not wrong. Only those who don't think of it as a beta should be the ones paying, and it's not like SE could affect that decision in any way. In the end the customer agrees to pay and it is up to him and her entirely.

How does it matter how you call it? It still the same game and content and there is no interpretation to that. It's the same for everyone regardless the name your giving it. Does that mean the person paying for it is wrong, well clearly not, but whatever you call it a beta or not an pay for it. The message to SE would be the same.

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by nekrothing

The simple truth is that charging now is just going to make a dying game die faster. The servers are already empty enough as it is (this is coming from someone on one of the most active servers) and when they start charging people to help fix their beta, they're just going to be even more empty and lifeless. The problem however is that if they want to keep this game afloat, they have to charge.

I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.

Shut it down and rerelease under a new name, when its done of course.  FFXIV just echos around the mmo community as a terrible game. Names stick like mud.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by nekrothing

The simple truth is that charging now is just going to make a dying game die faster. The servers are already empty enough as it is (this is coming from someone on one of the most active servers) and when they start charging people to help fix their beta, they're just going to be even more empty and lifeless. The problem however is that if they want to keep this game afloat, they have to charge.

I am sure square-enix has enough money to make this game work BEFORE asking for money.

 

They do, yet that has nothing to do with keeping the service up until that happens for a negligible amount of people for free. In reality it would probably be easier for them to take the current service down and focus entirely on 2.0.

This does not make sense to me at all. So keeping it running for a negligible amount of people for free does not make sence, but letting a negligible amount of people pay is wise? Knowing some if not most of the already negligible people will leave the game as well?

I think just closing the game is a better solution for the time being untill there ready to release something that is good and right and do the reboot and hope they can restore consumer faith.

Originally posted by Coman

This does not make sense to me at all. So keeping it running for a negligible amount of people for free does not make sence, but letting a negligible amount of people pay is wise? Knowing some if not most of the already negligible people will leave the game as well?

I think just closing the game is a better solution for the time being untill there ready to release something that is good and right and do the reboot and hope they can restore consumer faith.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by Zookz1

 

How is it none of their business? Perhaps they're prior players and wanted to chime in. Maybe they've been following the game for a year. You may not agree with their opinions, but they're just as entitled to theirs as you are of yours. Nobody is calling you a slobbering 'tard for enjoying the game and your willingness to pay for it.

 

 

 

Like I said, their lives are not affected in any shape or form by this. They can have their opinion, but they're idiots if they think it matters. It's like being pissed about US raising taxes while you live in France. Herpaderp.

 

As far as losing potential subs, that could be correct. Then again, if one has played the game in it's current state for a year already the chances are he will at least check out 2.0 (where his achievements thus far are stored). As such while you nor I know anything about the true state of affairs I'm doubtful that the ratio of players lost exceeds the ratio of revenue gained. SE has their own experts to calculate these things, so sorry for being skeptical about an internet anonymity with a grudge claiming doom&gloom. Oh, since the announcement of 2.0 any potential new players have been lost up until 2.0. SE was quite straightforward in stating that the game will not change drastically up until then, leaving players who gave up on the game for being what it is little reason to come check things out beforehand. Only people left are those who enjoy the game right here and right now.

But if they previously lived in the US or had relatives in the US, they may be interested or they may want to join the discussion. Having an opinon doesn't make you an idiot, but calling other people an idiot for having one does.

They're going to lose players during this transition period, but they're going to make more money than they've made for the last year, so it's good for SE. The game is going to continue to crawl along until 2.0, and then we'll see if all the hard work pays off.

Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by onthestick

It is not about the sub fee but the fact that they are charging us for a beta. I never talk things out of my behind so i jumped in FFXIV recently to check the changes and it was more or less the same game. So whether it is 5 bucks or 15 a month, players are still paying for game which is still in beta testing.

If it was any other MMO same people who are supporting this would be up in arms and throw 'it is about principle' arguments at us.

Beta? The key systems are set. In 2.0, the game's keeping the Armory System, the same classes, same crafting, materia system, game engine, etc. The only big things that are changing is maps/character rendering/UI/storyline.

I guess when WoW had Cataclysm change it's maps or when an MMO added new races it was considered a beta product too.

Very silly arguments, considering that even Yoshi called FFXIV a half-finished game.

RIP FFXIV 01-06-2012

I just hope they fix the Final Fantasy series name sake.

Originally posted by Netspook

 

Very silly arguments, considering that even Yoshi called FFXIV a half-finished game.

Yoshi said the game was halfway to having that "Final Fantasy" feeling. A common misquote that needs to die already. And the arguments are valid. The core systems are here to stay. No ones losing progress once 2.0 hits.

Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by Netspook

 

Very silly arguments, considering that even Yoshi called FFXIV a half-finished game.

Yoshi said the game was halfway to having that "Final Fantasy" feeling. A common misquote that needs to die already. And the arguments are valid. The core systems are here to stay. No ones losing progress once 2.0 hits.

Well, how exactly should we translate that? Oh, I know, let's do it so it seems more positive.

"To be honest, I consider that we're about half-way to the point where we can confidently call it Final Fantasy."

This was also brought up at a later date, and he said he stood by that assertion. To me, that sounds an awful lot like he's saying that they have half of a Final Fantasy game.

Originally posted by Zookz1

 

Well, how exactly should we translate that? Oh, I know, let's do it so it seems more positive.

"To be honest, I consider that we're about half-way to the point where we can confidently call it Final Fantasy."

This was also brought up at a later date, and he said he stood by that assertion. To me, that sounds an awful lot like he's saying that they have half of a Final Fantasy game.

Yeah, but he also went into detail saying it was halfway to having that Final Fantasy feeling saying that Chocobos and Airships helped a lot with that. Not that the game itself was half complete. That, and he said the reason they're charging is they're now to the part to call it a Final Fantasy game.  Haters just gonna hate, even if it was cleared up.

Originally posted by FleshMask

RIP FFXIV 01-06-2012

I just hope they fix the Final Fantasy series name sake.

 This game never damaged FF for me. It was a noble attempt to do something that went wrong. When I see Tifa being pimped out like trailer trash in some cheesy browser game, then FF is dead.

Originally posted by Netspook

 You are defending everything about this game. You even blamed the players that are feeling scammed for not researching before buying, saying it's not SE's fault, even it's a FACT that most ppl considers FFXIV unfinished. So yes, you are a fanboy, there is no doubt about that.

You keep on nagging about core systems being in. Guess what, that's common even in alphas, and certainly doesn't make the game worth a sub.

Not blind to the game's problems? Well, you had me fooled, and probably everyone else too.

Defending everything? Blind to its problems? Read a few topics down on this board. I started one saying there's some things about 2.0 I'm not going to like. But again, haters gonna hate.

And I said people can't complain knowing how bad the beta was/didn't research about a game before preordering yet still complain. That they can't blame SE for. Never did I say it wasn't SE's fault for releasing a half finished game. But it's cool, you can act like I said what you believe as you did about Yoshi P.

Please explain why the games in beta, I'd like to hear why. Never did I say the game was worth a sub for keeping it's core systems. It seems reading things as you want to see them is a problem of yours. Whether it's worth a sub or not is based on opinion only.

Originally posted by Netspook

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Point is, the game's not in beta. Games go through more changes years after they launched in an expansion than what XIV will go through. So you can stop running that point now unless you have proof SE say's its in beta. It doesn't matter what the complainers are saying. 

Once again, I never said you can't blame SE for releasing a half finished product. That, and the reviews were almost unanimously bad back in beta, not good. The fact people would preorder an MMORPG of all genres and not research the game is a bad decision, and I would bet most people who purchase an MMO DOES research rather than blindly buy a game, or wait after launch for more impressions. They gave a free year, and the game is enjoyable by most that play now (the poll on the lodestone has most people staying when they charge). If the game's not to there liking now, I dare say they won't like XIV even with the 2.0 launch. They get a free trial period then anyways, so calm down and be patient.

I'm not a fanboy, the game's not in beta, and SE didn't force you to buy the game at launch.

Originally posted by Netspook

 So, the only "truth" is what SE spoonfeeds you. That's beyond sad. It also backs up a few of my arguments, but I doubt you see that.

Know what's "beyond sad"?

Originally posted by Netspook

Explain why the game is a beta? Most ppl (check both here, lodestone, and loads of other forums) seems to agree that the game is unfinished. An unfinished game that's possible to play = beta.

When your reason why it's in beta is either that forum posts say so or a game is getting new content/features.

Any MMO is unfinished till the day it shuts down. So I guess all MMO's are beta products?

I'm not being spoonfed by SE, but at least in your views I'm going by the desingers title rather than random forum posts.

When the replies get to slinging insults rather than offering reasons why I'm wrong, I know you have nothing. So I'm done here. Enjoy your time hating on a game.

There will stay no people @their servers. This leads nowhere. Who would pay for such junk. Only complete fanboys who re defending this pile of no-game at all cost.

Originally posted by Borecc

There will stay no people @their servers. This leads nowhere. Who would pay for such junk. Only complete fanboys who re defending this pile of no-game at all cost.

A poll on the official forums have 3/4th of the players staying after the fee. And I'm no fanboy, thus your theory is disproven.

Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by Borecc

There will stay no people @their servers. This leads nowhere. Who would pay for such junk. Only complete fanboys who re defending this pile of no-game at all cost.

A poll on the official forums have 3/4th of the players staying after the fee. And I'm no fanboy, thus your theory is disproven.

Did you also see the thread where people are posting server populations found with the new LFG tool? The highest number reported thus far was on Selbina during NA primetime. The number was 941. Some of the more unfortunate servers are reporting numbers anywhere from 200-500. This is right after a huge patch. These numbers are going to go down come Jan. That paints a pretty grim picture for the next few months. So, 3/4 of the polled players may be staying, but when server pops are already so low, it doesn't mean a whole lot.