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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Biggest immersion killing feature - the static world.

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306 posts found
  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2824

We all breathe and we all die.

12/15/11 8:25:52 PM#141

It's very weird IMO that we comparing SWTOR(2011) and WOW(2004?) just in my opinion odd how would could say it's boring compared to now I'm sure it would seem boring now or more "static" in WoW compared to how SWTOR is static far as npcs and what not. 

 

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

12/15/11 8:32:41 PM#142
Originally posted by RizelStar

It's very weird IMO that we comparing SWTOR(2011) and WOW(2004?) just in my opinion odd how would could say it's boring compared to now I'm sure it would seem boring now or more "static" in WoW compared to how SWTOR is static far as npcs and what not. 

 

 

sorry paragraph was so confusing.. pretty sure some words in there are supposed to say something else

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

12/15/11 8:47:50 PM#143
Originally posted by Azaria
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by TheCrow2k

 

Maybe this is what is bugging me about SWTOR but I am not sure, there is certainly something lacking. All I do know is the game feels bland and boring, even the underlying musical score is not used to great effect except in the occasional cutscene. The whole thing feels so damn uninspired and I am really dissapointed.

 

I will keep plugging away at it because I want to like it and I am a total Starwars Nut, but right now I doubt I will sub.

been saying this for awhile.. so many people said the story and everything make up for the lack of everything else missing.. but I don't know I have a feeling this is going to steer away a lot of people unfortunatly

Thats what alot of people have been saying, I know I have. I think the new divide is fluff or mechanics, I DO think from watching this go on that some people prefer fluff and prefer gear grinding so thats really the target audience. Sort of a Raider story driven crowd. I dont know if thier all that worried about interactive environements. The opposite to someone like me I like a basic backdrop story but I really favor Mechanics and event driven games. I dont even like jumping if it doesn't do something useful.

Then again if its bare bones but clean it might keep the kind of crowd RIFT keeps, but I dont think its going to win over any of the PVP crowd, I dont even think it will steal PvP players from WOW. At this rate it looks like it will settle a little under 400k in a year or so.


Thing is the storylines Ive tried thus far (jedi Knight & bounty hunter) aren't even that interesting..... the bounty hunter one in particular is quite naff which sucks because that is the class I really wanted to play.

  Zarynterk

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/07
Posts: 428

Do you ever get the feeling youre being watched...

12/15/11 8:48:27 PM#144
Originally posted by Creslin321

On this front, what bothered me were "little things" like the fact that Coruscant looked so cool but I couldn't really explore it.  Most of Coruscant is just "scenery" for the handful of actual explorable areas on the planet.

I always thought it would have been really fun to just explore Coruscant.  See the wealthy sections and the slums below, find interesting shops and hidden easter eggs.  But it just isn't there.  It's basically a staging area for story and quests and that's what it feels like.

I remember even in KOTOR, I felt that the first city you go to was much more interesting. 

 

And this is exactly what the fanbois cannot defend... Bioware did an absolute lazy job, they copied the combat system from every other theme park mmo out there and added very little in innovation outside of voice over work and some superficial story work that has almost zero impact on the world.

  metalguy23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/10
Posts: 95

me me me

12/15/11 8:55:20 PM#145

Game is absolutely terrible. I don't see what everyone's ranting and raving about. What it's Star Wars? huh it's clone wars lol. Sorry but it's empty blandness, no atmosphere whatsoever, the engine is terrible. Sorry but Bioware did a terrible job and I will not even bother with it. Beta was a borefest and I logged in, created my char and said to myself "this is it? are you kidding me?". Sorry it's overhyped garbage with some top of the line voiceovers and cutscenes, sorry but I am not paying $60 (frigging rip off for an MMO anyway) and then $15 to play some WOW/Star Wars game. Prediction: Guild Wars 2 will be the most talked about and most popular game, this will be bad memory lol.  Show me excitement like this in an MMO. When this dragon shows up chills went down my spine, never seen anything like that in an online game. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0nCHPl_mEU

  Cik_Asalin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 3091

12/15/11 9:01:16 PM#146
Originally posted by Margulis

There was another topic about this here but it got locked for whatever reason - so I'm bringing this one over.  I think this is one of the biggest problems with SWTOR right now and it doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves. The simple fact that the world just FEELS lifeless and static. Let me give a few examples:

1. Cities and social hubs - Running through these feels like a library or graveyard, not a bustling hub of activity.

2. Mobs - A very high percentage of mobs just stand in place.

3. Critters / world creatures - Where are they? It's something you don't even really notice till they aren't there, but this game is severely lacking in them.

4. Music / sound effects - There are large amounts of time with no music, which I think should be increased.

All of this combined = a very static and lifeless world.

The argument that "this is how all mmo's are" doesn't work at all, as many AAA mmo's over the last 5-8 years have had great ambient atmosphere, npc acitivty, npc conversations, and lots of creatures running around. 

Hopefully Bioware addresses this.

What you mentioned is not how mmo's are.  This is why that TOR is largely considered a single-player / cooperative online rpg; not a "massively multiplayer"game.

 

It will not be addressed by Bioware. It would take another 5-years to turn this skeleton into a mmo.

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2824

We all breathe and we all die.

12/15/11 9:02:40 PM#147
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by RizelStar

It's very weird IMO that we comparing SWTOR(2011) and WOW(2004?) just in my opinion odd how would could say it's boring compared to now I'm sure it would seem boring now or more "static" in WoW compared to how SWTOR is static far as npcs and what not. 

 

 

sorry paragraph was so confusing.. pretty sure some words in there are supposed to say something else

Wow what I said indeed made no sense, just disregard that post ha ha.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  allegria

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/07
Posts: 686

12/15/11 11:56:45 PM#148
Originally posted by metalguy23

Game is absolutely terrible. I don't see what everyone's ranting and raving about. What it's Star Wars? huh it's clone wars lol. Sorry but it's empty blandness, no atmosphere whatsoever, the engine is terrible. Sorry but Bioware did a terrible job and I will not even bother with it. Beta was a borefest and I logged in, created my char and said to myself "this is it? are you kidding me?". Sorry it's overhyped garbage with some top of the line voiceovers and cutscenes, sorry but I am not paying $60 (frigging rip off for an MMO anyway) and then $15 to play some WOW/Star Wars game. Prediction: Guild Wars 2 will be the most talked about and most popular game, this will be bad memory lol.  Show me excitement like this in an MMO. When this dragon shows up chills went down my spine, never seen anything like that in an online game. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0nCHPl_mEU

I am not defending SWTOR vs GW2 but honestly that video is horrible. Talk about a gimmick fight LOL 

Manning Turrets ? Huge Laser ? 

Come on, what happened to the RPG in MMORPGs ?

sigh.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

12/16/11 12:05:35 AM#149
Originally posted by allegria
Originally posted by metalguy23

Game is absolutely terrible. I don't see what everyone's ranting and raving about. What it's Star Wars? huh it's clone wars lol. Sorry but it's empty blandness, no atmosphere whatsoever, the engine is terrible. Sorry but Bioware did a terrible job and I will not even bother with it. Beta was a borefest and I logged in, created my char and said to myself "this is it? are you kidding me?". Sorry it's overhyped garbage with some top of the line voiceovers and cutscenes, sorry but I am not paying $60 (frigging rip off for an MMO anyway) and then $15 to play some WOW/Star Wars game. Prediction: Guild Wars 2 will be the most talked about and most popular game, this will be bad memory lol.  Show me excitement like this in an MMO. When this dragon shows up chills went down my spine, never seen anything like that in an online game. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0nCHPl_mEU

I am not defending SWTOR vs GW2 but honestly that video is horrible. Talk about a gimmick fight LOL 

Manning Turrets ? Huge Laser ? 

Come on, what happened to the RPG in MMORPGs ?

sigh.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  I can name another RPG game where you had to man a turret at one point.  It was called Knights of the Old Republic.  I don't think having a turret makes a game any less RPG-like.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  allegria

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/07
Posts: 686

12/16/11 12:28:01 AM#150
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by allegria
Originally posted by metalguy23

Game is absolutely terrible. I don't see what everyone's ranting and raving about. What it's Star Wars? huh it's clone wars lol. Sorry but it's empty blandness, no atmosphere whatsoever, the engine is terrible. Sorry but Bioware did a terrible job and I will not even bother with it. Beta was a borefest and I logged in, created my char and said to myself "this is it? are you kidding me?". Sorry it's overhyped garbage with some top of the line voiceovers and cutscenes, sorry but I am not paying $60 (frigging rip off for an MMO anyway) and then $15 to play some WOW/Star Wars game. Prediction: Guild Wars 2 will be the most talked about and most popular game, this will be bad memory lol.  Show me excitement like this in an MMO. When this dragon shows up chills went down my spine, never seen anything like that in an online game. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0nCHPl_mEU

I am not defending SWTOR vs GW2 but honestly that video is horrible. Talk about a gimmick fight LOL 

Manning Turrets ? Huge Laser ? 

Come on, what happened to the RPG in MMORPGs ?

sigh.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  I can name another RPG game where you had to man a turret at one point.  It was called Knights of the Old Republic.  I don't think having a turret makes a game any less RPG-like.

RPG = role playing game. Not I want to shoot some dumb laser that doesn't care what/who I am ( class etc ).

I hated that vehicle crap in wow ( never saw that in swtor in beta but i will hate it also )

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  12/16/11 12:46:25 AM#151
Originally posted by Cik_Asalin
Originally posted by Margulis

There was another topic about this here but it got locked for whatever reason - so I'm bringing this one over.  I think this is one of the biggest problems with SWTOR right now and it doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves. The simple fact that the world just FEELS lifeless and static. Let me give a few examples:

1. Cities and social hubs - Running through these feels like a library or graveyard, not a bustling hub of activity.

2. Mobs - A very high percentage of mobs just stand in place.

3. Critters / world creatures - Where are they? It's something you don't even really notice till they aren't there, but this game is severely lacking in them.

4. Music / sound effects - There are large amounts of time with no music, which I think should be increased.

All of this combined = a very static and lifeless world.

The argument that "this is how all mmo's are" doesn't work at all, as many AAA mmo's over the last 5-8 years have had great ambient atmosphere, npc acitivty, npc conversations, and lots of creatures running around. 

Hopefully Bioware addresses this.

What you mentioned is not how mmo's are.  This is why that TOR is largely considered a single-player / cooperative online rpg; not a "massively multiplayer"game.

 

It will not be addressed by Bioware. It would take another 5-years to turn this skeleton into a mmo.

Disregard this reply I misread what the poster was trying to say originally.

  skulljoe

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 93

12/16/11 12:53:37 AM#152
Originally posted by allegria

RPG = role playing game. Not I want to shoot some dumb laser that doesn't care what/who I am ( class etc ).

I hated that vehicle crap in wow ( never saw that in swtor in beta but i will hate it also )

 

WTB a e-RPG where i could get rewards with viable options for pacifist characters, and where i dont feel penalised for trying to make the character i want. I dont want a game full of gimmicks to look like a RPG. I want a true roleplay

Maybe ill just stick to Skyrim :(

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  12/16/11 12:55:47 AM#153
Originally posted by fadis
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by fadis

It must be the crap engine they used to make TOR.

 

There is a reason there is so little character customization... lack of ambient noise... lack of high-res textures... lack of mobile npcs... lack of AA... and the list goes on...

 

 

not true go on youtube and look at videos of the heroengine.. the engine itself is capable of a lot of things it just depends how much further they want to develop on top of the engine. I do agree they could of chosen a better engine though

 I have seen the Youtube videos.

Although it looks like the engine has a lot of features - it doesn't look to perform very well.  If there is another explanation why TOR is missing so many of the items mentioned above... and please don't tell me they aren't important, weren't noticed... or they didn't have time! 


I wondered if it's the engine too but here are my thoughts:

1.  There are SOME npc background chatter conversations - so clearly they are capable of doing them, there just aren't many of them.  I think it had less to do with being able to make it happen - and way more to do with deciding not to spend the money to make more of that voiced conversation.

2.  Same thing for npc's - you can't interact with any npc's except vendors and quest givers BUT, when you take a quest from an quest giver, or have already completed a quest from them, or talk to a questgiver that does not currently have a quest to offer you they DO give you a small one sentence voice acted conversation.  So clearly they can do it, they just DIDN'T DO IT for all the regular npc's.

3.  Music and sound effects should be able to be taken care of.

4.  World creatures - Not sure why they wouldn't be able to add more creatures in if there already are some.  I do wonder, however, if they are capable of making complex pathing - such as squirrels bouncing around or jumping around randomly.  If you'll notice, pretty much every mob and npc in the game either has no pathing, or VERY LIMITED and repetitious movements that are simple.  Maybe the Hero Engine does fail here.

Ultimately I think it was probably mostly them cutting corners (it's clear they did it in many other parts of the game - just look at some of the dungeon / cave (not flashpoints) repetition used in the layouts, mediocre character creation, etc etc) .  Perhaps some things are because of the engine, but definitely not all.

  allegria

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/07
Posts: 686

12/16/11 1:04:58 AM#154
Originally posted by skulljoe
Originally posted by allegria

RPG = role playing game. Not I want to shoot some dumb laser that doesn't care what/who I am ( class etc ).

I hated that vehicle crap in wow ( never saw that in swtor in beta but i will hate it also )

 

WTB a e-RPG where i could get rewards with viable options for pacifist characters, and where i dont feel penalised for trying to make the character i want. I dont want a game full of gimmicks to look like a RPG. I want a true roleplay

Maybe ill just stick to Skyrim :(

 I play DDO for this reason ( well one part ) you can really design your character from the start. However its all combat. Otherwise vanguard had diplomacy but it really was a game within a game. 

Otherwise yea Skyrim ! 

- Someone just recommended "age of discovery" to me, from what I can tell its an age of sail exploration game I am going to check it out.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  1/05/12 2:28:45 AM#155

Here's a video link of an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_TUu8EkZRo&feature=youtu.be

 

  UsualSuspect

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1231

1/05/12 4:37:11 AM#156
Originally posted by Margulis

Here's a video link of an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_TUu8EkZRo&feature=youtu.be

 

Hah, good video. I got to that same spot only last night before I logged out. Landing at Nar Shaddaa I thought the place would be vibrant and full of life, it's akin to Vegas after all - wow, was I disappointed to find that in the local casino. It's just pathetic the amount of attention they put into the world. They have these large, beautifully designed areas - seriously, take a look around sometime, it really is nice - but they're all like museums. You expect to start talking and someone to tell you to be quiet.

They've put so much focus on story and combat that it's as if they expect people not to notice the world around them, despite having put so much attention into designing these places. Have a fly around Coruscant in a taxi and circle your view around, so much detail on a simple taxi route. So much wasted potential.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

1/05/12 6:04:01 AM#157
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Originally posted by Margulis

Here's a video link of an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_TUu8EkZRo&feature=youtu.be

 

Hah, good video. I got to that same spot only last night before I logged out. Landing at Nar Shaddaa I thought the place would be vibrant and full of life, it's akin to Vegas after all - wow, was I disappointed to find that in the local casino. It's just pathetic the amount of attention they put into the world. They have these large, beautifully designed areas - seriously, take a look around sometime, it really is nice - but they're all like museums. You expect to start talking and someone to tell you to be quiet.

They've put so much focus on story and combat that it's as if they expect people not to notice the world around them, despite having put so much attention into designing these places. Have a fly around Coruscant in a taxi and circle your view around, so much detail on a simple taxi route. So much wasted potential.

As painful as it is, the video is symptomatic of what went entirely WRONG with this game. The lack of soul, of heart, of anything like a buzzing animated alife world.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Pelaaja

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/08
Posts: 714

1/05/12 6:21:09 AM#158
Originally posted by Atlan99

I thought the biggest killer of immersion was the fact that I had to use a keyboard to move my character and use skills. ;)

Now, Sir.

That is entirely optional. No one is FORCING you to use keyboard.

Just shell out the moolah and they'll build you this: alternative controller (just think that guy wielding a lightsaber or blaster and/or wearing sith gear or potato sack for jedi).

  Vegetto

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/04
Posts: 854

1/05/12 6:29:00 AM#159


Originally posted by Elikal


Originally posted by UsualSuspect


Originally posted by Margulis

Here's a video link of an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_TUu8EkZRo&feature=youtu.be
 


Hah, good video. I got to that same spot only last night before I logged out. Landing at Nar Shaddaa I thought the place would be vibrant and full of life, it's akin to Vegas after all - wow, was I disappointed to find that in the local casino. It's just pathetic the amount of attention they put into the world. They have these large, beautifully designed areas - seriously, take a look around sometime, it really is nice - but they're all like museums. You expect to start talking and someone to tell you to be quiet.
They've put so much focus on story and combat that it's as if they expect people not to notice the world around them, despite having put so much attention into designing these places. Have a fly around Coruscant in a taxi and circle your view around, so much detail on a simple taxi route. So much wasted potential.


As painful as it is, the video is symptomatic of what went entirely WRONG with this game. The lack of soul, of heart, of anything like a buzzing animated alife world.

Wouldn't be so bad if it was made up by players chatting, trading or doing stuff socially, like...maybe questing, but alas, my chat screen remains emtpy to everythign except XP notices :(

  Lidane

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 2315

1/05/12 6:34:48 AM#160
Originally posted by Vegetto

 

Wouldn't be so bad if it was made up by players chatting, trading or doing stuff socially, like...maybe questing, but alas, my chat screen remains emtpy to everythign except XP notices :(

Strange. What server are you on? My server (Corellian Run) is filled with constant chatter, people trading, looking for groups for heroics and flashpoints, and just talking. There are new player qusetions being answered, movie quotes, comments about the game -- both good and bad, BTW -- and just all sorts of cross talk. 

I'm just wondering if maybe it's the server you're on. Some servers might just be less social than others.

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