Trending Games | ArcheAge | Elder Scrolls Online | EverQuest | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,902,277 Users Online:0
Games:753  Posts:6,276,136
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Examples of new ideas that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
33 posts found
  wizyy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/05
Posts: 636

 
OP  12/14/11 1:50:12 PM#1

 

Would you like to have some of these ideas implemented in a game:

 

Character creation – let's make appearance make a difference - instead of really tiny looking people having the strength of big people (which can hardly be explained in any logical way), how about this:

Body - Small frame: has +5% more chance to be missed by an opponent

-5% on constitution

-5% strength

Body - Large frame: -5% chance to miss in melee combat

+5% constitution

+5% strength

Regular body, of course, would not have any bonuses or weaknesses.

 

Quests – we all played through so many quests, one dude gives you quest, you solve it, go to another NPC, rinse and repeat. If you had done that quest with another character or you saw it when your friend was playing – you know exactly what to expect and it's always kinda “spoiled”.

How about – random quests? Let's say every NPC can give you one of several quests and you never know which one you will get? Everyone loves surprises.

Also, when you are on the way to solve that quest, why not an ambush on the way? I know, it's common in mmorpgs - every mob on the map can “aggro” you, but with some knowledge (and the fact that mobs are usually way too static) you can go around them. Randomness, surprises are needed to get you on your toes and to get rid of that “chore” feeling when you do quests. Basically, my idea is to add a chance for an ambush on you or your party when you are taking a quest. It would add a level of fun, at least for me (you can get this “ambush” from real people on PvP servers in current games, so this idea is mainly for PvE).

 

Combat (slow-motion) animations – most people love “fatalities” in Age of Conan, it's a solid concept and fun when it works. But why not add even more cool animations in a fight? It's done great many times in single-player games (some beautifully done moves in Batman: Arkham City), why not in MMORPG? I know, while you watching animation, someone may be killing you :) But, it can be easily done in “instances”, boss-fights, you name it... Why not see yourself doing warrior-like crazy stunt, or block a boss with your shield in slow-motion, or... pick whatever combat move in slow-mo you would like to see, it CAN be done.

 

PvP: I love PvP. But I don't see it done right in recent years. It's all “battlegrounds”, “arenas”... not enough world PvP. We need more zones exclusively made for PvP, with resources in them that are worth fighting for – materials to give to crafters for making better equipment. We seriously need more of that and I'm happy to see it being made in ArcheAge, but we can only hope that game will be released in the West.

 

Weapons: I would love to see the introduction of “fumble” element in a MMORPG. For example, if you're using a huge-ass sword, you're prone to do something nasty to yourself or someone near to you if you drop it or it slips away from your grasp while you swing it. The chance for fumble can be really, really low, but when it finally happens, can be a moment to remember :)

Repercussions of the said fumble could be a “cripple” effect, where you are slowed or forced to use only one arm, and if you're not healed by a potion or a spell, you would have to go back to town and have it cared for. This is where a mount would be more than useful, and “come prepared” mindset would be advised to players. Maybe introduce a potion of “vanish” so when it happens that you're crippled you can get away from fight and heal (nice revenue boost for cash-shop games? Heh).

 

What about “racial” weapons? The ones that can be used only by certain races, or easier wielded by certain races? Hasn't been done much in MMORPG, but it's quite familiar in pen-and-paper RPG. Or, the ones that have a “bonus” damage against certain races? Let us have some of that...

I hate “soulbound” concept. I really do. You can't use the weapon someone else used, because it's bound to his soul? Lol. What would I want is to go back to crafter-made weapons and equipment which is damaged by use, can be repaired, but ultimately losing it's efficiency, just like in real life.

 

Appearance: We all love to look good in our games. To look bad-ass. How about this: by participating in combat and surviving, you get SCARS. BUT they vanish if you die and you're respawned. The more scars you have, it's obvious to every one looking at you that you survived many fights. These may seem unimportant, but believe me, many gamer's hours are spent just looking at your character or others. It would at least somewhat taken away the obsession about person's gear and how he looks in that gear.

 

Do we feel good in a MMORPG when we take down higher-level opponent? And when we do it alone, without assistance? I know I do. How about a victory shout when you take down such an opponent? Let's say, that “roar” would give you a 20-minute 20% increase in damage. BUT, with a 4-second cast, so if anyone HITS you while you're “roaring” you get +10% on received damage for 10 minutes, feeling very humble about being hit in the moment of triumph :P

 

How would you feel if you could be in the place of “boss” npcs for at least a while? I've got this idea: what if there's gods, dieties that each race worships, that can enter the body of a worshiper (player character), making him huge and powerful so he can mow down armies of enemies? I think that would be epic. Let's say that each day at random time, for about 2 hours, one player is randomly chosen to do just that – and if he accepts he can go to PvP zone and help the fight for resources. GM help would be probably needed for the possible asshat behaviour (not doing anything, for example), or when the player is disconnected, but those kinds of peculiarities would be easily worked out.

 

Now to extend this idea further, and to tickle the imagination of those who are familiar with pretty standard races of many high-fantasy role-playing games, I give you this graph:

You can see there 4 main races, each worshiping their own god who represents the forces of Light, Order, Dark and Chaos, and 4 possible more for those who are “in-between”. Races who are opposite to one another would really hate each other and would do 50% more damage when hitting the opposite race, making fights between them really fast and furious, because... deep hate does that. Worshiping another god could be made available, with intriguing possibilities of race-betrayal, deep hate towards betrayers and maybe even physical change mirroring a change in worship.

 

Those are just a few of ideas thrown about, that I feel could really impact the horribly stale MMORPG market. Implementation of any new ideas can be hard, and also can be done right or wrong. I just feel that I won't pay another dime to play any of the same-old with different graphics. We need something new and fresh.

What do you think? This may seem it's not much (well I have more ideas if you want them, I just want to see if there's any reactions), BUT I bet there's more than a few of you who are thinking the same, and who are even mulling over a few ideas of their own. Feel free to let them be known here (if you're not scared of them being stolen, lol)! 

 

P.S. I made a blog here on mmorpg.com with all this, but it seems that only forums are active, hardly anyone reads blogs, and I would really like to see some opinions...

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6136

12/14/11 4:38:30 PM#2
I like the op ideas. Very similar to mine. But I would like to add, cross server PvP maps, if you use a multi server concept.

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2543

12/14/11 5:17:29 PM#3

Nice attemp to try fresh up with ideas.

But if i look at all the mmorpgs on market and how many millions play them im affraid the so called stale mmo's keep in a stale state.

Race weapons done in Darkfall and every race who made there own race weapon could give sell or lose it to other races every race weapon could only be made by the race compatible with the same race weapon weapon but Darkfall have no evil soulbound luckly.

The combat you discribe and want, pls no, omg i hope not its typical console action oriented combat moves i hate implemented into PC games.

The races UGHH :(

Why oh why always same races in every god damn game, the same races. Why not invent original new races like in Asherons call 2 tumeroks or lugians or in Darkfall the Mahirim wolf race. Or even the races from Skyrim humanoid Argonians lizards and humanoid khajiit cats.

Im also TOTALLY FED UP with all the ADONIS TYPES AND SUPER MODEL LOKING BABES in games every goddamn game have super sexy halfnaked babes and adonis looking brad pitts bah:( I want a game where the characters are looking more dirty dark grim seasoned and that dont mean they have to be evil you can be looking seasoned dirty and down right ugly but super cool and good:)

For me, its all way to themeparkee how you discribe your game, but still nice you try:)

MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 8.1 64bit

  wizyy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/05
Posts: 636

 
OP  12/14/11 5:38:57 PM#4
Originally posted by forest-nl

The combat you discribe and want, pls no, omg i hope not its typical console action oriented combat moves i hate implemented into PC games.

The races UGHH :(

For me, its all way to themeparkee how you discribe your game, but still nice you try:)

Eh, combat I didn't describe - the thing I was describing is just a SLOW-MOTION move, for the dazzle effect, to freshen up the constant boring combat animation. Nowhere did I say which type of combat I prefer.

The races - ARE JUST FAMILIAR PLACEHOLDERS - the real new thing is how you implement racial hatred - the opposite races on the graph would hate each other and give 50% more damage to the opposite race (regular damage to all other races). I do not really care if the game is high-fantasy or sci-fi or borrowed familiar races, or completely new ones. I just care about good, solid, fun game.

Where did you see themepark in any of my ideas? :) I'm a big fan of sandbox! But any of ideas can be implemented in any type of MMORPG.

  wvmaxfangvw

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 22

12/14/11 6:03:49 PM#5

 

While I agree that the market is becoming stagnant with WoW clones and the Fantasy genre itself has been done to death... unfortunately most of the ideas are ones that aren't exactly new, just easily dusted under the rug due to the general failure of the game to survive in the shadow of WoW.

 

Appearance = Stats - Have seen this one before in a F2P, forgot the name in a sea of F2Ps that only held my attention for a short while.... Dang I'm going to spend 3 days on google trying to remember which game that was lol

Anyway moving on...

Random Quests - Anarchy Online did that.

Bullet Time - Matrix Online as well as Age of Conan did that.

Botched Roll - Included in many PnP games but might actually be an intersting idea to try in an MMO. I think PvPers would rally against it because luck systems take away from the desired skill based outcome.

Racial Weapons - The idea of racial restricted equipment is hardly new, it goes back as far as Everquest and even further still.

Scars - Really only appriciated by top end gaming systems. If you look at most scars on anything by the highest settings they are either non-existant or blurred to the point of seeming like a rash.

Play as Boss NPC - Try the Everquest Monster Mission that let's you and your team play as a Raid Encounter and survive against wave after wave of NPC Raiders ^^ That actually was kind fun but still not new.

Faction Wheel - Fallen Earth. Ability to change allignment from one diety to another was in Everquest as well though sometimes resulted in bad things happening (Killing the Goddess of Nature and Life as a High Elf made for a really long grind to not be hated by every NPC in the game... but the loot was so nice!)

 

Some of them are good ideas, some not so much but with so many failures having tried so many different things it's become a generic wash of things that have been seen before. Somebody's really going to have to break the mold but that in itself alienates the client base who will go back to what's comfortable and familiar in short order...

wvmaxfangvw Xfire Miniprofile
  wizyy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/05
Posts: 636

 
OP  12/14/11 6:58:02 PM#6
Originally posted by wvmaxfangvw

 

While I agree that the market is becoming stagnant with WoW clones and the Fantasy genre itself has been done to death... unfortunately most of the ideas are ones that aren't exactly new, just easily dusted under the rug due to the general failure of the game to survive in the shadow of WoW.

 

Appearance = Stats - Have seen this one before in a F2P, forgot the name in a sea of F2Ps that only held my attention for a short while.... Dang I'm going to spend 3 days on google trying to remember which game that was lol

Anyway moving on...

Random Quests - Anarchy Online did that.

Bullet Time - Matrix Online as well as Age of Conan did that.

Botched Roll - Included in many PnP games but might actually be an intersting idea to try in an MMO. I think PvPers would rally against it because luck systems take away from the desired skill based outcome.

Racial Weapons - The idea of racial restricted equipment is hardly new, it goes back as far as Everquest and even further still.

Scars - Really only appriciated by top end gaming systems. If you look at most scars on anything by the highest settings they are either non-existant or blurred to the point of seeming like a rash.

Play as Boss NPC - Try the Everquest Monster Mission that let's you and your team play as a Raid Encounter and survive against wave after wave of NPC Raiders ^^ That actually was kind fun but still not new.

Faction Wheel - Fallen Earth. Ability to change allignment from one diety to another was in Everquest as well though sometimes resulted in bad things happening (Killing the Goddess of Nature and Life as a High Elf made for a really long grind to not be hated by every NPC in the game... but the loot was so nice!)

 

Some of them are good ideas, some not so much but with so many failures having tried so many different things it's become a generic wash of things that have been seen before. Somebody's really going to have to break the mold but that in itself alienates the client base who will go back to what's comfortable and familiar in short order...

Wow, you're a walking-talking MMORPG encyclopedia :D

I can't say that I've played any of those games, but I half-expected some of ideas to be already implemented as somewhat similar in a game, but so many.. wow.

I could (and have already) developed the ideas further, with actual characterizations of particular workings, but in general I don't think there's great many people (I played many MMORPG since my first, SWG) who actually encountered any of this "generic wash of things that have been seen before" in any game.

Actually, those are things that I would gladly jump-in game to play for, but not just in ANY game. The game has to be skillfuly developed and be attractive to be popular. The good ideas are wasted in games like Fallen Earth (which is IMHO very poorly done), or never even seen by the modern gamer, 'cause they are now way too old/dead (Anarchy Online, Matrix Online, Everquest). Anyway, if some ideas don't look like they're new, doesn't mean they're bad, maybe they were just badly implemented.

While I wait for ArcheAge, I can only fantasize of the things I would like to see in a MMORPG... and hope there's more people like me, hungry for the break of the current mold.

  Mendel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 643

12/14/11 7:18:23 PM#7

There's some interesting ideas in the OPs list.  I'm definitely in agreement that some new (or old) ideas are needed to spice up the gameplay within current MMORPG models.

Here's some comments on specific topics

 

Slow Motion animation

The slow-motion animation comes with a huge fundamental problem -- all MMORPGs run off of the concept of a static clock.  For example, let's imagine a wicked-looking slow motion death stroke, which is just a special sword attack that kills someone.  The animation for the normal sword attack takes 1.3 or so seconds, but the slo-mo attack takes 6.5 seconds.  When someone triggers this slo-mo kill sequence, the game must either slow the game clock for everyone on the server (very bad) or slow the player's client, keeping any nearby action synced (difficult).  If the game has any kind of PvP, or multi-mob agro, then it could become hazardous for the character to kill something,  because the mobs / enemies might kill him while the animation is playing.

I expect that features such as slow-motion will have to remain in SP games, or buried in instances (where everyone in the instance is on the same clock).

 

Fumbles

Parts of a mechanism to incorporate fumbles was in EQ1 with the ability to Disarm an opponent.  I think this was removed to prevent some exploits / potential expolits about the time NO DROP items were introduced.   It was a horrifically clunky thing to pick up a dropped weapon and re-equip it in the middle of a fight if an orc disarmed you.  The Disarm mechanism just didn't work well, and I can expect it lead to a lot of deaths and probably an equal number of Customer Support petitions.  And with EQ1's rather wild combat algorithms, disarming that rusty dagger from the orc was probably not a good idea, as the orc's damage could increase noticably.

 

Scars

While cosmetic scars could be interesting, what about more drastic wounds?  There would need to be a lot of animations of amputated limbs.  And this would require extensions of the character models to show the various animations, and the information pushed to the client would need to include this.  And players would rebell against any mutilations unless there were ways to repair them.  And let's not underestimate the potential for griefing that this would enable in any kind of PvP environment.  That alone might keep many developers from attempting a disfigurement system.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  wvmaxfangvw

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 22

12/14/11 7:40:16 PM#8

lol Yeah I been on the scene for more years than I'd care to admit...

Many of the ideas were and are really good, as you said they were just used in games that were otherwise sorely lacking. I guess I was playing devils advocate a bit because of how unwilling many people are to give something a second chance. Some of the references were obscure and that was more for my own OCD and not wanting to completely ignore any of your ideas which were all worth mentioning imo.

I guess I could say my fear is enough of those good elements have been done badly (poorly balanced or buggy) or packaged with horrible ideas in the past that the skeptical MMO audience as it is now would pick it apart and cite examples like the ones I gave as reasons the game is destined to suck.

"lol They ripped off 20 different games and every one of them was a flop. Epic fail" - ForumTroll1337

You can see the same thing if you look at any forum or review of Funcom's next game because of the launch with AOC... Despite the fact that once the ironed the kinks out AoC became a polished and engaging game neither the company or the game is going to be remembered for anything more than a horrible launch and empty promises.

 

wvmaxfangvw Xfire Miniprofile
  wizyy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/05
Posts: 636

 
OP  12/14/11 7:52:08 PM#9
Originally posted by wvmaxfangvw

You can see the same thing if you look at any forum or review of Funcom's next game because of the launch with AOC... Despite the fact that once the ironed the kinks out AoC became a polished and engaging game neither the company or the game is going to be remembered for anything more than a horrible launch and empty promises.

 

I really enjoy this discussion, this is exactly I was hoping for.

AoC is the perfect example of great ideas pretty much ruined by the general lack of understanding what makes gamers "tick", what they consider fun and what bores them to death, how important is the polish, pleasing color palette, attempt at class balance...  and maybe most of all, how promises must be kept.

  kashiegamer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 263

12/14/11 8:11:57 PM#10

To be honest I'm not really sure how this can be applicable to the current generation of MMOs. Yes they are enjoyable, but I don't know if their application is possible at the moment.

My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/

Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/

Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion

  kashiegamer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 263

12/14/11 8:27:23 PM#11
Originally posted by wizyy

 

Would you like to have some of these ideas implemented in a game:

 

Character creation – let's make appearance make a difference - instead of really tiny looking people having the strength of big people (which can hardly be explained in any logical way), how about this:

Body - Small frame: has +5% more chance to be missed by an opponent

-5% on constitution

-5% strength

Body - Large frame: -5% chance to miss in melee combat

+5% constitution

+5% strength

Regular body, of course, would not have any bonuses or weaknesses.

 ^No I don't want this. It reminds me a lot of old DnD games. I want something that doesn't rely on stats--something that feels more organic.

 

Quests – we all played through so many quests, one dude gives you quest, you solve it, go to another NPC, rinse and repeat. If you had done that quest with another character or you saw it when your friend was playing – you know exactly what to expect and it's always kinda “spoiled”.

How about – random quests? Let's say every NPC can give you one of several quests and you never know which one you will get? Everyone loves surprises.

Also, when you are on the way to solve that quest, why not an ambush on the way? I know, it's common in mmorpgs - every mob on the map can “aggro” you, but with some knowledge (and the fact that mobs are usually way too static) you can go around them. Randomness, surprises are needed to get you on your toes and to get rid of that “chore” feeling when you do quests. Basically, my idea is to add a chance for an ambush on you or your party when you are taking a quest. It would add a level of fun, at least for me (you can get this “ambush” from real people on PvP servers in current games, so this idea is mainly for PvE).

 ^Skyrim did this, as far as random quests are concerned. So yeah, this is possible.

 

Combat (slow-motion) animations – most people love “fatalities” in Age of Conan, it's a solid concept and fun when it works. But why not add even more cool animations in a fight? It's done great many times in single-player games (some beautifully done moves in Batman: Arkham City), why not in MMORPG? I know, while you watching animation, someone may be killing you :) But, it can be easily done in “instances”, boss-fights, you name it... Why not see yourself doing warrior-like crazy stunt, or block a boss with your shield in slow-motion, or... pick whatever combat move in slow-mo you would like to see, it CAN be done.

^It actually depends on how a game manages animations, skills, damage, cast time, etc. Cabal Online (Cabal 1) actually had a "Finishing Move" feature because of how its skills are implemented. It wasn't an intended feature, as far as I know. 

 

 

PvP: I love PvP. But I don't see it done right in recent years. It's all “battlegrounds”, “arenas”... not enough world PvP. We need more zones exclusively made for PvP, with resources in them that are worth fighting for – materials to give to crafters for making better equipment. We seriously need more of that and I'm happy to see it being made in ArcheAge, but we can only hope that game will be released in the West.

^This is something about a developer's choice as to how to handle their PVP element. I believe this is possible, it simply depends upon the develoeper's taste.

 

Weapons: I would love to see the introduction of “fumble” element in a MMORPG. For example, if you're using a huge-ass sword, you're prone to do something nasty to yourself or someone near to you if you drop it or it slips away from your grasp while you swing it. The chance for fumble can be really, really low, but when it finally happens, can be a moment to remember :)

Repercussions of the said fumble could be a “cripple” effect, where you are slowed or forced to use only one arm, and if you're not healed by a potion or a spell, you would have to go back to town and have it cared for. This is where a mount would be more than useful, and “come prepared” mindset would be advised to players. Maybe introduce a potion of “vanish” so when it happens that you're crippled you can get away from fight and heal (nice revenue boost for cash-shop games? Heh).

^I don't believe this can be possible in the current generation of MMOs, especiall the theme parks. I do believe however that this is possible with Sandbox MMOs that allows Game Physics to affect gameplay, rather than solely basing on numbers and other hidden stats.

 

 

What about “racial” weapons? The ones that can be used only by certain races, or easier wielded by certain races? Hasn't been done much in MMORPG, but it's quite familiar in pen-and-paper RPG. Or, the ones that have a “bonus” damage against certain races? Let us have some of that...

^This is interesting. I'd like to see more discussions about this idea.

I hate “soulbound” concept. I really do. You can't use the weapon someone else used, because it's bound to his soul? Lol. What would I want is to go back to crafter-made weapons and equipment which is damaged by use, can be repaired, but ultimately losing it's efficiency, just like in real life.

^I've been looking for this feature for a long time. This can potentially stop the inflation of supply and prices for virtual items in online games.

 

Appearance: We all love to look good in our games. To look bad-ass. How about this: by participating in combat and surviving, you get SCARS. BUT they vanish if you die and you're respawned. The more scars you have, it's obvious to every one looking at you that you survived many fights. These may seem unimportant, but believe me, many gamer's hours are spent just looking at your character or others. It would at least somewhat taken away the obsession about person's gear and how he looks in that gear.

^This is a highly subjective matter. Rather than scars, maybe a more generalized "MORE COSMETIC OPTIONS" should be put in here. 

 

Do we feel good in a MMORPG when we take down higher-level opponent? And when we do it alone, without assistance? I know I do. How about a victory shout when you take down such an opponent? Let's say, that “roar” would give you a 20-minute 20% increase in damage. BUT, with a 4-second cast, so if anyone HITS you while you're “roaring” you get +10% on received damage for 10 minutes, feeling very humble about being hit in the moment of triumph :P

^Again I don't like this--numbers/stats that affect a supposed natural action. A more organic game mechanic should be better IMO. 

 

How would you feel if you could be in the place of “boss” npcs for at least a while? I've got this idea: what if there's gods, dieties that each race worships, that can enter the body of a worshiper (player character), making him huge and powerful so he can mow down armies of enemies? I think that would be epic. Let's say that each day at random time, for about 2 hours, one player is randomly chosen to do just that – and if he accepts he can go to PvP zone and help the fight for resources. GM help would be probably needed for the possible asshat behaviour (not doing anything, for example), or when the player is disconnected, but those kinds of peculiarities would be easily worked out.

^I think this is possible, but is also potentially exploitable.

 

Now to extend this idea further, and to tickle the imagination of those who are familiar with pretty standard races of many high-fantasy role-playing games, I give you this graph:

You can see there 4 main races, each worshiping their own god who represents the forces of Light, Order, Dark and Chaos, and 4 possible more for those who are “in-between”. Races who are opposite to one another would really hate each other and would do 50% more damage when hitting the opposite race, making fights between them really fast and furious, because... deep hate does that. Worshiping another god could be made available, with intriguing possibilities of race-betrayal, deep hate towards betrayers and maybe even physical change mirroring a change in worship.

^This is like a glorified faction upgrade...

 

Those are just a few of ideas thrown about, that I feel could really impact the horribly stale MMORPG market. Implementation of any new ideas can be hard, and also can be done right or wrong. I just feel that I won't pay another dime to play any of the same-old with different graphics. We need something new and fresh.

What do you think? This may seem it's not much (well I have more ideas if you want them, I just want to see if there's any reactions), BUT I bet there's more than a few of you who are thinking the same, and who are even mulling over a few ideas of their own. Feel free to let them be known here (if you're not scared of them being stolen, lol)! 

 

P.S. I made a blog here on mmorpg.com with all this, but it seems that only forums are active, hardly anyone reads blogs, and I would really like to see some opinions...

 

My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/

Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/

Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion

  wvmaxfangvw

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 22

12/14/11 8:48:06 PM#12
Originally posted by kashiegamer

To be honest I'm not really sure how this can be applicable to the current generation of MMOs. Yes they are enjoyable, but I don't know if their application is possible at the moment.

A lot of the things he brought up are probably better suited to today environment than the were at the time. The body-build mechanic (and in the game example I used earlier even a Large Female got slightly different yet balanced and sensible bonuses compared to the large male) for example is not that far a stretch from racial bonuses so that's no big deal. As for Organic I fail to see how a 6'7 300lb assassin or a 5'0' 110lb tank seems organic to current games.

Bullet time is possible without major time warping with MXO's example as it put the player and target NPC for that move in a 1v1 duel at the middle of a much larger battle for the duration of the move. Certain criteria needed to be met but it also allowed more interactive fight sequences for pure eye-candy.

The one I'd most like to see given a second birth is probably random quests. Random Missions in Anarchy Online were one of the first examples of Instanced content, a technology and idea that has come a long way since. You check the bulletin board. Then they give you 6 options that more or less fit the mold and offer an xp/coin/item reward (1 item per group member). When you pick one, one of the dozens of doors or cave entrances in the area would hold a dungeon that was generated from a pool of several hundred pre-build rooms being randomly assembled and populated. Team dungeons had multiple floors and a boss (complete with boss loot tables) at the end. 100 people might use the same door as you but they all had a completely different challenge awaiting on the other side.

Botches are also easy in todays games. Hit/Miss and Damage are still based on background "dice rolls"... you roll a full on 0 and you wack yourself with the hammer or cut you hand on the sword or shoot yourself in the knee with an arrow.

 

Edit - Sorry for wall of text, wasn't that long in my head but as the OP pointed out ... MMO encyclopedia..

wvmaxfangvw Xfire Miniprofile
  kashiegamer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 263

12/14/11 8:55:35 PM#13
Originally posted by wvmaxfangvw
Originally posted by kashiegamer

To be honest I'm not really sure how this can be applicable to the current generation of MMOs. Yes they are enjoyable, but I don't know if their application is possible at the moment.

A lot of the things he brought up are probably better suited to today environment than the were at the time. The body-build mechanic (and in the game example I used earlier even a Large Female got slightly different yet balanced and sensible bonuses compared to the large male) for example is not that far a stretch from racial bonuses so that's no big deal.

Actually I put a second post (just above your post) to re-examine his ideas.. :)

My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/

Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/

Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion

  wvmaxfangvw

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 22

12/14/11 8:59:20 PM#14

Yeah and got that one in while I was editing the first to rant less about instanced missions and include your follow up lol

wvmaxfangvw Xfire Miniprofile
  ropenice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 585

12/14/11 9:12:09 PM#15

Not to damper the coversation but most good ideas probably are too hard to do, take up too many resources, not possible due to technology, etc. I'd love to see a complete random quest creator where only the beginning (reason to do it) and end (reward/completion) are preset-the rest is completely randomized for each person. Would be great, but not possible with current tech/programming). I'd settle for enemy AI to be at least a little random or challenging. I agree some of the lack of originality is due to fear of failure, so they do what is already proven to work, but there are technical reasons for a lot of it too.

  wizyy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/05
Posts: 636

 
OP  12/14/11 9:41:18 PM#16
Originally posted by ropenice

Not to damper the coversation but most good ideas probably are too hard to do, take up too many resources, not possible due to technology, etc. I'd love to see a complete random quest creator where only the beginning (reason to do it) and end (reward/completion) are preset-the rest is completely randomized for each person. Would be great, but not possible with current tech/programming). I'd settle for enemy AI to be at least a little random or challenging. I agree some of the lack of originality is due to fear of failure, so they do what is already proven to work, but there are technical reasons for a lot of it too.

Even when we cannot do the idea complete justice due to technical reasons, we can attempt to capture the essence of it.

For example, if we can't create a random generator for quests at every NPC giver, we CAN create - let's say, 20 quests in some area, where there are 4 NPCs, who could give players some of those quests in random order.

Point is, randomness, surprises and mystery give player a reason to walk the same path again... Did you ever level your alt character through the area you already experienced, and got really bored? To the point you stopped playing? I know I did.

It's a real pity when some of the best regions in a MMORPG are deserted when players go right to the "end game" and never go back to them. At least it could be done that regional quests could be different for each class.

  EvilestTwin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 284

12/15/11 2:10:12 AM#17
Originally posted by wizyy
Originally posted by ropenice

Not to damper the coversation but most good ideas probably are too hard to do, take up too many resources, not possible due to technology, etc. I'd love to see a complete random quest creator where only the beginning (reason to do it) and end (reward/completion) are preset-the rest is completely randomized for each person. Would be great, but not possible with current tech/programming). I'd settle for enemy AI to be at least a little random or challenging. I agree some of the lack of originality is due to fear of failure, so they do what is already proven to work, but there are technical reasons for a lot of it too.

Even when we cannot do the idea complete justice due to technical reasons, we can attempt to capture the essence of it.

For example, if we can't create a random generator for quests at every NPC giver, we CAN create - let's say, 20 quests in some area, where there are 4 NPCs, who could give players some of those quests in random order.

Point is, randomness, surprises and mystery give player a reason to walk the same path again... Did you ever level your alt character through the area you already experienced, and got really bored? To the point you stopped playing? I know I did.

It's a real pity when some of the best regions in a MMORPG are deserted when players go right to the "end game" and never go back to them. At least it could be done that regional quests could be different for each class.

Guild Wars 2 is attempting to do this with Dynamic Events.   

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3346

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

12/15/11 4:04:29 AM#18

There are three things I absolutely demand from any MMO worth considering my time:

1. Subscription based, not pay to win (buy to play and actually free are of course OK too)

2. Third person perspective / no realtime aiming / not shooter-like with acceptable view on the surroundings

3. Item focussed, with no permanent item decay, no treadmill gaming (treadmill = you have to work to stay in the same place)

As the OP already violated rule 3, I'm not highly motivated to contibute to this thread.

 

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1804

12/15/11 5:43:31 AM#19

I would love to see a phased server architechture applied in an MMO.

It means everyone would be playing on the same "server", but on the busiest spots they would be separated in multiple instances.

The benefits would be that each and every zone would always have near-optimal population and never again would you have to worry about ending in a dead server (unless the whole game dies) or sitting in a queue to log in.

Drawback would be that it would not allow open world PvP in any meaningful way.

  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

12/15/11 5:44:24 AM#20
Originally posted by wvmaxfangvw
Originally posted by kashiegamer

To be honest I'm not really sure how this can be applicable to the current generation of MMOs. Yes they are enjoyable, but I don't know if their application is possible at the moment.

A lot of the things he brought up are probably better suited to today environment than the were at the time.

Actually, it is quite the opposite. The earlier crowd was far more tolerant of consequence of actions and the ability of other players to affect their character.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

2 Pages 1 2 » Search