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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

General Discussion  » Now that SWTOR NDA dropped, do you believe SWG should return?

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111 posts found
  drake201

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/09
Posts: 80

12/12/11 11:16:03 AM#81

swg has been dead for a long time, let it die

also get swgemu if you want to play that badly

  Bob_Blawblaw

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 1316

12/12/11 1:44:05 PM#82
  ArcheusCross

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/07
Posts: 802

12/12/11 1:45:22 PM#83
Originally posted by Obraik

Someone's a little defensive of LucasArts, it seems ;)

The quote you've posted is pretty vague.  It simply states that resigning the license wasn't in SOE's best interests.  Superniceguy's theory has just as much potential to be correct as yours.  That's the problem with vague quotes...

 

Obriak. youv'e always defended SOE wayyy too much. If you hadn't noticed, they aren't the most perfect of devs (see the debacle they just tried with Eq2). They have a history of doing stuff like that. 

SOE was obviously in bed with them on this desicion. Probably got some kind of fat deal out of it. That being said.. we all know LA had a big part in closing SWG... they must have had. 

Does anyone remember the whole thing with wanting SWG to be "more iconic"? Thats how you got your classes right? (nge)

Does anyone find it funny that now that LA is getting thier wow-like "iconic" game via TOR? ( i mean hell look at the smuggler pics the first ones look like han solo... the BH ones look similar in style to boba)

Its no wonder SWG is beign shut down so close to TOR. Its just too obvious. I doubt that SOE even fought the motion.

 

Just let SWG die. It deserves to be buried. 

"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria

"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci

  Paradigm68

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 880

12/12/11 1:53:45 PM#84

Bring it back only if: pre-nge, with a graphical update, and all Star Wars lore stripped from it and replaced with original generic sci-fi lore.

Otherwise, whats the point?

  Saerain

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/27/06
Posts: 946

12/12/11 1:59:59 PM#85

What I believe is that BioWare should continue to make MMOs, but in better settings. Star Wars has excellent name recognition, but I thought it was ill-suited to an MMO back when SWG was in development and I don't think that has changed.

I hope TOR does well enough for BioWare to later create a Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or original IP MMO; and I hope SOE does well enough with PlanetSide 2, and continues to do well enough with DCUO, that EverQuest 3 can make good use of sandbox lessons learned from SWG.

Favorites: EVE, VG, LotRO | Playing: None | Anticipating: SC, ED, TD, EQN, CU

  Obraik

Ewok

Joined: 5/02/05
Posts: 7303

12/12/11 7:13:08 PM#86



Originally posted by TUX426


Originally posted by Obraik
Someone's a little defensive of LucasArts, it seems ;)
The quote you've posted is pretty vague.  It simply states that resigning the license wasn't in SOE's best interests.  Superniceguy's theory has just as much potential to be correct as yours.  That's the problem with vague quotes...


Not at all. Lucas Arts should be shot for allowing zombies, pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts, and a slew of other worthless CRAP to be added to SWG. Every update SOE moved further and further away from ANYTHING canon to borderline lunacy. Whoever approved the additions at Lucas Arts is also culpable of utter neglect and should be fired.
Lucas Arts clearly didn't give a f**k about SWG, but that doesn't make them responsible for SOE's choices - SOE is ultimately responsible for THEIR actions.
 
And there's nothing "vague" about "Could we have renegotiated? Maybe." - That clearly states that he didn't even try to renegotiate, hence the word "maybe". It simply wasn't worth it to Smed to invest even an attempt into keeping SWG open.


And how does that rule out what Superniceguy theorised?  SOE's reluctance to renew could be due to the issues Superniceguy theorised with LucasArts.  If we add the rest of the quote that you've missed out by Smedley:


If the intellectual property of Galaxies was wholly owned by SOE, then the decision might have been moot because the game would likely continue to make money for a long time, even with TOR lurking. "That's the problem with licenses: they end," Smedley said. "We're going to continue to do some licensed work, but we're largely going to stick to original IP [going forward] because then we won't have this issue. We'll never have this problem with EverQuest."

Really though, there's a million things that could be speculated from the quotes posted. Everyone here has their own agenda and will find it just as easy to speculate something contradicting to your own opinion of what it all means which is quite pointless.

  tixylix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1144

12/12/11 7:25:45 PM#87
Originally posted by Obraik

 



Originally posted by TUX426


Originally posted by Obraik
Someone's a little defensive of LucasArts, it seems ;)
The quote you've posted is pretty vague.  It simply states that resigning the license wasn't in SOE's best interests.  Superniceguy's theory has just as much potential to be correct as yours.  That's the problem with vague quotes...


Not at all. Lucas Arts should be shot for allowing zombies, pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts, and a slew of other worthless CRAP to be added to SWG. Every update SOE moved further and further away from ANYTHING canon to borderline lunacy. Whoever approved the additions at Lucas Arts is also culpable of utter neglect and should be fired.
Lucas Arts clearly didn't give a f**k about SWG, but that doesn't make them responsible for SOE's choices - SOE is ultimately responsible for THEIR actions.
 
And there's nothing "vague" about "Could we have renegotiated? Maybe." - That clearly states that he didn't even try to renegotiate, hence the word "maybe". It simply wasn't worth it to Smed to invest even an attempt into keeping SWG open.



And how does that rule out what Superniceguy theorised?  SOE's reluctance to renew could be due to the issues Superniceguy theorised with LucasArts.  If we add the rest of the quote that you've missed out by Smedley:


If the intellectual property of Galaxies was wholly owned by SOE, then the decision might have been moot because the game would likely continue to make money for a long time, even with TOR lurking. "That's the problem with licenses: they end," Smedley said. "We're going to continue to do some licensed work, but we're largely going to stick to original IP [going forward] because then we won't have this issue. We'll never have this problem with EverQuest."

 

Really though, there's a million things that could be speculated from the quotes posted. Everyone here has their own agenda and will find it just as easy to speculate something contradicting to your own opinion of what it all means which is quite pointless.

 

SWG has ended because it sucked and lets not forget it is 8 years old....

 

SOE ruined SWG, you cannot defend them seeing as they've done the same to all their other games.

  Obraik

Ewok

Joined: 5/02/05
Posts: 7303

12/12/11 8:24:09 PM#88
Originally posted by tixylix
Originally posted by Obraik

 



Originally posted by TUX426


Originally posted by Obraik
Someone's a little defensive of LucasArts, it seems ;)
The quote you've posted is pretty vague.  It simply states that resigning the license wasn't in SOE's best interests.  Superniceguy's theory has just as much potential to be correct as yours.  That's the problem with vague quotes...


Not at all. Lucas Arts should be shot for allowing zombies, pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts, and a slew of other worthless CRAP to be added to SWG. Every update SOE moved further and further away from ANYTHING canon to borderline lunacy. Whoever approved the additions at Lucas Arts is also culpable of utter neglect and should be fired.
Lucas Arts clearly didn't give a f**k about SWG, but that doesn't make them responsible for SOE's choices - SOE is ultimately responsible for THEIR actions.
 
And there's nothing "vague" about "Could we have renegotiated? Maybe." - That clearly states that he didn't even try to renegotiate, hence the word "maybe". It simply wasn't worth it to Smed to invest even an attempt into keeping SWG open.



And how does that rule out what Superniceguy theorised?  SOE's reluctance to renew could be due to the issues Superniceguy theorised with LucasArts.  If we add the rest of the quote that you've missed out by Smedley:


If the intellectual property of Galaxies was wholly owned by SOE, then the decision might have been moot because the game would likely continue to make money for a long time, even with TOR lurking. "That's the problem with licenses: they end," Smedley said. "We're going to continue to do some licensed work, but we're largely going to stick to original IP [going forward] because then we won't have this issue. We'll never have this problem with EverQuest."

 

Really though, there's a million things that could be speculated from the quotes posted. Everyone here has their own agenda and will find it just as easy to speculate something contradicting to your own opinion of what it all means which is quite pointless.

 

SWG has ended because it sucked and lets not forget it is 8 years old....

 

SOE ruined SWG, you cannot defend them seeing as they've done the same to all their other games.

I've enjoyed the 8.5 years I've spent playing this supposed "ruined" game.  Sorry you didn't.

  dougmysticey

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/06
Posts: 1182

12/12/11 8:27:26 PM#89

I stopped playing SWG shortly after NGE but I did try to return a year or two ago and did not find it to my liking still. That said I have played in a couple of weekend betas for SWTOR and cannot wait until launch tomorrow.

SWG is gone for a reason and while I will not speculate on those  reasons it is a new era for Star Wars as an MMO.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4152

Trolls will be ignored

12/12/11 8:32:55 PM#90
Originally posted by tixylix

 

 

SWG has ended because it sucked and lets not forget it is 8 years old....

 

SOE ruined SWG, you cannot defend them seeing as they've done the same to all their other games.

No kidding. It's really hard to defend SOE when you consider their history with other MMOs. We have a recent example with DCUO. Great IP with lots of potential. Total bust.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Kainis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/08
Posts: 450

12/12/11 8:36:39 PM#91

Sorry in advance if I only read the title of the thread, which I did. As for me, being a pre-NGE vet, all I can say is that I only hope SWG comes back in about 3,000 years or so into the future. Such as the time in lore difference between these games. Maybe by then SOE will have figured out how to not screw a good IP up.

-----------------------
Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide

Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift

Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR

Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."

  User Deleted
12/12/11 8:40:18 PM#92

Word is when BW negotiated the contract for SWTOR that they had a clause that no other MMOG would ever be made with the starwars name. It was claimed. i don't have the source or link. but the president of LA was fired over it. So until BW's contract runs out in 2025 they pretty much can sue if another SW MMO tries to get made. 

  BullseyeArc1

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/08
Posts: 416

12/13/11 12:07:25 AM#93
Originally posted by jeremyjodes

Word is when BW negotiated the contract for SWTOR that they had a clause that no other MMOG would ever be made with the starwars name. It was claimed. i don't have the source or link. but the president of LA was fired over it. So until BW's contract runs out in 2025 they pretty much can sue if another SW MMO tries to get made. 

 

I doubt LA would agree to contract with that long of a requirment all MMO's peak in the first two years. They would definatly want another option in the next six years.
  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

12/13/11 10:11:44 AM#94
Originally posted by Obraik


And how does that rule out what Superniceguy theorised?  SOE's reluctance to renew could be due to the issues Superniceguy theorised with LucasArts.  If we add the rest of the quote that you've missed out by Smedley:


Really though, there's a million things that could be speculated from the quotes posted. Everyone here has their own agenda and will find it just as easy to speculate something contradicting to your own opinion of what it all means which is quite pointless.

First, I linked the quote in its entirety. People are welcome to read it - I snipped out the part proving my point that Smedley didn't even try to renew the license. It's not pointless - it's fact and it was stated by Smed. If you find solace in the fluff I left out, good for you - that doesn't change or negate what was said though. Smed clearly says he didn't even TRY to renew SWGs license.

 

Now, on to Superniceguy's statements:

"SOE constantly worked on the game, and kept patching it every other week with a new update."

Simply a lie. They did not patch it every other week with a new update.

"They have nothing to lose by pulling staff from SWG to work on their other games, and doing nothing, but yet they are still tinkering with it on Atmospheric Flight, Air to Ground stuff"

Again, not true. Hjal worked on it in his spare time. The reality is, SOE had 7-1/2 years to actually add it - it wasn't until their former QA guy Hjal took it upon himself to do it in his FREE TIME (not even paid for by SOE) to get it implemented.

"SOE wanted SWG, they just did not want to work with LA"

False. SOE is STILL working with LA. They still have a Star Wars MMO running - Clone Wars Adventures.

"LA are way to over protective towards their IP"

False. If this were the case, how would you explain zombies, pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts, Indiana Jones gear or a slew of other ridiculous crap. LA is too LEINIENT with their IP. In fact, SOE Developers have stated how EASY LA was to deal with.

"When SWTOR closes, they will no longer deal with Bioware"

How on earth would Superniceguy know this? He doesn't. It's simply false.

 

Theories are generally based on some sort of truths Obriak. Superniceguy uses NO facts OR truths. It's fine to dislike LA. I'm not defending them. I am defending common sense and the truth though.

  Obraik

Ewok

Joined: 5/02/05
Posts: 7303

12/14/11 9:11:17 AM#95



Originally posted by TUX426


Originally posted by Obraik





And how does that rule out what Superniceguy theorised?  SOE's reluctance to renew could be due to the issues Superniceguy theorised with LucasArts.  If we add the rest of the quote that you've missed out by Smedley:






Really though, there's a million things that could be speculated from the quotes posted. Everyone here has their own agenda and will find it just as easy to speculate something contradicting to your own opinion of what it all means which is quite pointless.


First, I linked the quote in its entirety. People are welcome to read it - I snipped out the part proving my point that Smedley didn't even try to renew the license. It's not pointless - it's fact and it was stated by Smed. If you find solace in the fluff I left out, good for you - that doesn't change or negate what was said though. Smed clearly says he didn't even TRY to renew SWGs license.
 
Now, on to Superniceguy's statements:
"SOE constantly worked on the game, and kept patching it every other week with a new update."
Simply a lie. They did not patch it every other week with a new update.

It wasn't far off. While some of it was minor and related to the ending, there were other changes added somewhat regularly. Things like the Space GCW changes, profession revamps, atmospheric flight...


"They have nothing to lose by pulling staff from SWG to work on their other games, and doing nothing, but yet they are still tinkering with it on Atmospheric Flight, Air to Ground stuff"
Again, not true. Hjal worked on it in his spare time. The reality is, SOE had 7-1/2 years to actually add it - it wasn't until their former QA guy Hjal took it upon himself to do it in his FREE TIME (not even paid for by SOE) to get it implemented.


I think you'll find when the phrase "free time" is thrown around it doesn't mean what you seem to think it does. Usually it means it's something someone has worked on inbetween projects or while they're waiting for someone else to complete a task before they can carry on with their main work...or simply bored at lunch. It's all paid time by SOE.


"SOE wanted SWG, they just did not want to work with LA"
False. SOE is STILL working with LA. They still have a Star Wars MMO running - Clone Wars Adventures.

They'll likely work through their existing contracts with LA but once they expire I'd find it unlikely they'll renew. The same is likely true for Warner Bros - based on Smedley's claims it seems they're done with licensed IPs.


"LA are way to over protective towards their IP"
False. If this were the case, how would you explain zombies, pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts, Indiana Jones gear or a slew of other ridiculous crap. LA is too LEINIENT with their IP. In fact, SOE Developers have stated how EASY LA was to deal with.


I don't think the problem is how protective they are but more how much extra work it is. It takes extra time to pass everything through a third party and it slows down the whole development process. SOE couldn't even interview their own Devs about the game for their Podcast without first clearing the questions with LA first, as an example.


"When SWTOR closes, they will no longer deal with Bioware"
How on earth would Superniceguy know this? He doesn't. It's simply false.


It has been rumoured that LA will no longer be using external companies for its games. This would imply that LA will not be working with Bioware once their current games end.


 
Theories are generally based on some sort of truths Obriak. Superniceguy uses NO facts OR truths. It's fine to dislike LA. I'm not defending them. I am defending common sense and the truth though.


You're not defending commonsense and truth, you're seeing what you want to see and sure, you could argue that what I've posted (and the same with Superniceguy) is the same. But that's been kind of my point the whole way through this thread...the quotes are vague and everything we post is just guessing based on our own opinions. Nothing in this thread is factual, it's purely assumptions with little weight. 

  Theiskareot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 44

12/14/11 10:16:55 AM#96


You're not defending commonsense and truth, you're seeing what you want to see and sure, you could argue that what I've posted (and the same with Superniceguy) is the same. But that's been kind of my point the whole way through this thread...the quotes are vague and everything we post is just guessing based on our own opinions. Nothing in this thread is factual, it's purely assumptions with little weight. 

 

Obraik -- old buddy of fun...  lol..  how ironic to see you here... still trying to defend this..

How is the NGE going for ya?   Full of people?  All those servers full still I see?

You know better... and you knew that one day we would be right and you would have to try to explain things.. lol

In the end SWG is a business and a product.   IT is not performing and nor will it ever as it did not from the start.

Bottom line... if it made money and was a success.. it would still be here... OH SAY LIKE EVERQUEST...  LA or SOE does not want to try to make this any worse of a money sink then what it has been.

DO NOT try to sugar coat it... if there was a market for it, it would be alive and well and people would pay for it.

With a IP like Star Wars.. if it was good there would be enough logical people paying for it.   

However - we both know how that worked out lol...

Grats on your NGE though... 

GG ....  saying I told you so would be pointless because really... it being the last day says it for me.   lol

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

12/14/11 10:42:15 AM#97
Originally posted by Obraik

 

You're not defending commonsense and truth, you're seeing what you want to see and sure, you could argue that what I've posted (and the same with Superniceguy) is the same. But that's been kind of my point the whole way through this thread...the quotes are vague and everything we post is just guessing based on our own opinions. Nothing in this thread is factual, it's purely assumptions with little weight. 

 

We'll just need to agree to disagree Obriak. You love SOE and everything Smed, I despise the company and think it's run by morally bankrupt crooks. I see absolutely no ambiguity in the quote, you see whatever it is you see.

  Theiskareot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 44

12/14/11 12:52:58 PM#98
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Obraik

 

You're not defending commonsense and truth, you're seeing what you want to see and sure, you could argue that what I've posted (and the same with Superniceguy) is the same. But that's been kind of my point the whole way through this thread...the quotes are vague and everything we post is just guessing based on our own opinions. Nothing in this thread is factual, it's purely assumptions with little weight. 

 

We'll just need to agree to disagree Obriak. You love SOE and everything Smed, I despise the company and think it's run by morally bankrupt crooks. I see absolutely no ambiguity in the quote, you see whatever it is you see.

Since day one... it was like that lol.    He got mad when I would post things Smed would say or even my good ole emails (remember those Obraik from him)?? Yeah I thought so.   

Here is the truth:   The game DIES tommorow.   In fact, unlike Everquest or some other supported MMOs it failed.   Period end of story.  There is nothing you can say to make it seem like the NGE was a success because NOT one person would say that with half a brain.    IF IT WAS A SUCCESS this convo would not be happening and the SAID PRODUCT would not be getting DELETED tommorow.    THAT's right.... GONE... removed from the planet due to it's failure.

If it made money or was a success it would still be here and trust me -- if it was making money Not SOE or LA would say OH NO PLEASE DO NOT HAND ME PROFITS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS>>>   right.

It is a business and they milked the mistake for as long as they could.    Obraik I think you need to be reminded of a link -- with some topics from the people themselves. 

For what its worth.. you were fun to watch - with the fanboi isms until the very end.   I can only hope that none of your NGE mindset makes it into SWTOR-- over the last year I have been in closed beta... and pretty much everyone was so happy that we weeded out the NGE fans fast.    After being in the first test group on I have seen a lot of people try to even understand the NGE mindset and fail.   In the end, you were a rare bird maybe .02% of the Star Wars fanbase that accepted a poor product and never wanted better but was willing to pay for a bad product or broken one, or lame one if that.    

But hey... you don't need me to tell you that.    The game is gone as of tommorow... I will let the facts speak for itself.   lol...

This time, I find comfort knowing all things NGE will die tommorow and the mindset behind it goes poof... along with the last remaining fanbois lol.       It's kinda funny because there is no winning.... there is no (Just wait and see) comeback.  Nothing... its like losing a boxing match before it even starts.

I kinda like that ... ha.

Here is your reminder link O --  enjoy it.   I know I always have.. it helped with my logic of why and how... when I would read fake and misleading posts from you.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/10830/AGC_Sony_Online_On_The_Market_You_Have.php

And then a recap of many --

 http://www.gamasutra.com/search/?search_text=SWG  

Gotta love some of those lines in there... I just love em..

 

  Gravez

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 275

12/14/11 1:47:36 PM#99
Originally posted by Theiskareot
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Obraik

 

You're not defending commonsense and truth, you're seeing what you want to see and sure, you could argue that what I've posted (and the same with Superniceguy) is the same. But that's been kind of my point the whole way through this thread...the quotes are vague and everything we post is just guessing based on our own opinions. Nothing in this thread is factual, it's purely assumptions with little weight. 

 

We'll just need to agree to disagree Obriak. You love SOE and everything Smed, I despise the company and think it's run by morally bankrupt crooks. I see absolutely no ambiguity in the quote, you see whatever it is you see.

Since day one... it was like that lol.    He got mad when I would post things Smed would say or even my good ole emails (remember those Obraik from him)?? Yeah I thought so.   

Here is the truth:   The game DIES tommorow.   In fact, unlike Everquest or some other supported MMOs it failed.   Period end of story.  There is nothing you can say to make it seem like the NGE was a success because NOT one person would say that with half a brain.    IF IT WAS A SUCCESS this convo would not be happening and the SAID PRODUCT would not be getting DELETED tommorow.    THAT's right.... GONE... removed from the planet due to it's failure.

If it made money or was a success it would still be here and trust me -- if it was making money Not SOE or LA would say OH NO PLEASE DO NOT HAND ME PROFITS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS>>>   right.

It is a business and they milked the mistake for as long as they could.    Obraik I think you need to be reminded of a link -- with some topics from the people themselves. 

For what its worth.. you were fun to watch - with the fanboi isms until the very end.   I can only hope that none of your NGE mindset makes it into SWTOR-- over the last year I have been in closed beta... and pretty much everyone was so happy that we weeded out the NGE fans fast.    After being in the first test group on I have seen a lot of people try to even understand the NGE mindset and fail.   In the end, you were a rare bird maybe .02% of the Star Wars fanbase that accepted a poor product and never wanted better but was willing to pay for a bad product or broken one, or lame one if that.    

But hey... you don't need me to tell you that.    The game is gone as of tommorow... I will let the facts speak for itself.   lol...

This time, I find comfort knowing all things NGE will die tommorow and the mindset behind it goes poof... along with the last remaining fanbois lol.       It's kinda funny because there is no winning.... there is no (Just wait and see) comeback.  Nothing... its like losing a boxing match before it even starts.

I kinda like that ... ha.

Here is your reminder link O --  enjoy it.   I know I always have.. it helped with my logic of why and how... when I would read fake and misleading posts from you.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/10830/AGC_Sony_Online_On_The_Market_You_Have.php

And then a recap of many --

 http://www.gamasutra.com/search/?search_text=SWG  

Gotta love some of those lines in there... I just love em..

 

I guess when you waste over 17 thousand hours of your life in a video game you become delusional, maybe like stockholm syndrome or a battered housewife. After tomorrow his and every other SOE apologist's world comes crashing down.

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

12/14/11 3:26:29 PM#100
Originally posted by Gravez

 

I guess when you waste over 17 thousand hours of your life in a video game you become delusional, maybe like stockholm syndrome or a battered housewife. After tomorrow his and every other SOE apologist's world comes crashing down.

HOLY **edit**!!! Never even saw that...

17 THOUSAND hours.

That's 720.5, 24-hour days of being logged ON.

Over 2-years of the 8-years spent ONLINE 24/7.

6-hours a day DAILY for 8-years.

 

Seriously...I bet half the players don't even WORK that many hours over 8 years.

I think you won the game Obraik :P

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