Originally posted by popinjay

 

Complains about Rift.

Yes Rift has issues, i've never said other wise.

Yet I would still choose RIFT over TOR for the simple fact that if you take away the voiced NPCs SWTOR is nothing but the most generic mmorpg experience. 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

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Originally posted by popinjay
 
There is a reason Rift will be the last game with elves, dwarves, and potentially dragons made in this genre among AAA mmos; it's because most players are simply tired on this banality which always comes out second/third/fourth best to WoW.

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People have been saying that for what 25 years now? 

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No one has said that for 25 years. In fact, people were awash in it and couldn't get enough. The problem was that they were all CLONES and bad ones at that.

But I guess you've seen a new mmo being planned that will have elves acting snooty, dwarves drinking beer, and dragons that talk and run the universe which you'll link in five, four, three, two...

Originally posted by sgel

You proved this by going up and clicking an NPC in another game?

Then you come on a public forum and post your "findings" ?

Are you begging to be humiliated?

 

The voice-over gets tiring and boring eventualy.

SpaceBar is your best friend.

Minority

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Originally posted by Z3R01

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Originally posted by popinjay
 
Complains about Rift.

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Yes Rift has issues, i've never said other wise.
Yet I would still choose RIFT over TOR for the simple fact that if you take away the voiced NPCs SWTOR is nothing but the most generic mmorpg experience. 
 
 
 
 

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Their servers just resound that most people in the genre don't feel that way. Rift had it's chance to impress the industry and did it with "the most bug-free launch in history", which if it keeps going the way it is population wise, will be it's main contribution to the industry.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

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Originally posted by popinjay
 
There is a reason Rift will be the last game with elves, dwarves, and potentially dragons made in this genre among AAA mmos; it's because most players are simply tired on this banality which always comes out second/third/fourth best to WoW.

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People have been saying that for what 25 years now? 

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Surely you have something, ANYTHING to back this up that people were saying that? Anything? Bueller? Bueller?

 

 

 

No one has said that for 25 years. In fact, people were awash in it and couldn't get enough. The problem was that they were all CLONES and bad ones at that.

 

 

But I guess you've seen a new mmo being planned that will have elves acting snooty, dwarves drinking beer, and dragons that talk and run the universe which you'll link in five, four, three, two...

Its called "Hyperbole"

When you make an asanine comment like people are tired of fantasy yet all indicators point to the exact opposite then you need a solid dose of reality my friend.  Fantasy is here to stay, has stayed, and will forever stay no ifs ands or butts about it. No matter how much you may "think" its dieing you are completely false in your presumptions.

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Z3R01

You have a lot of faith in a developer that never created a mmorpg before.

I personally just don't see a story centric driven mmorpg remaining interesting to a playerbase that devours content at such an insane pace.

I remember having a similar discussion on the Lotro forums during that games release. How its personal epic story arc would offer limitless content to its players. Three months later people were crying for content and every left.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many MMOs had Blizzard cranked out before WoW?  And how many mistakes has SOE made with their countless MMOs that you would think they'd learn from?  So yeah...I'm not buying that line.

And the Lotro game has been a pretty successful game for several years now.  The reason they weren't able to grow was because Turbine just got lazy with their content updates and was too handcuffed by the lore. That game could very well have had limitless content if Turbine hadn't fallen asleep at the wheel.  

 

IMO they should of remembered that they got all the rest of the LoTR world to play in not just the followship story line.

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

Its called "Hyperbole"
 
When you make an asanine comment like people are tired of fantasy yet all indicators point to the exact opposite then you need a solid dose of reality my friend.

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What indicator points to the exact opposite? Where? People are tired of elves. People are tired of dwarves. And dragons are ho-hum for the most part now. Of course there will be pockets of people who like high fantasy like that; That's why there are games like Runes of Magic, EQ/2, WoW, LOTRO, Rift, etc.

But if you want a dose of reality, look at games to be released in 2012 and beyond. You see less of that type and more of others.

Perhaps I should have said "high fantasy". That certainly isn't as popular as it once was and gaming companies seem to pick up on that.

Originally posted by popinjay

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We are going to have to disagree on what "dynamic" means is because if you think Rift was dynamic, we have two totally different definitions.

 

 

Random chance isn't dynamic. It's the same mechanic. It's like having a bunch of gopher holes in your back yard, but you only have one gopher. This gopher has a sign on his head that says "I am going to go and eat THESE CARROTS over there and I'll be there in ten minutes, just like I always do."

 

 

It doesn't matter if he has 100 holes. The SAME gopher is going to come out and chew on your SAME carrots in the SAME spots each time. You won't see a groundhog or a rabbit come out of there.

 

 

And if you knew your carrots would grow back the next day, you wouldn't care about killing the gopher.

Thx you for the LOLs it funny and true you forgot this bit.

If you kill the gopher you just get gopher no 2 turn up and do the same thing as gopher no 1 that you killed.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

Its called "Hyperbole"
 
When you make an asanine comment like people are tired of fantasy yet all indicators point to the exact opposite then you need a solid dose of reality my friend.

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I know what exaggeration is called. I wasn't sure if you did.

 

 

What indicator points to the exact opposite? Where? People are tired of elves. People are tired of dwarves. And dragons are ho-hum for the most part now. Of course there will be pockets of people who like high fantasy like that; That's why there are games like Runes of Magic, EQ/2, WoW, LOTRO, Rift, etc.

 

 

But if you want a dose of reality, look at games to be released in 2012 and beyond. You see less of that type and more of others.

 

 

Perhaps I should have said "high fantasy". That certainly isn't as popular as it once was and gaming companies seem to pick up on that.

A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm.  WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe.  SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe.  Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market. 

I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic.  We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing.  See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but  Idont because its pointless and isst even true.  So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.

• More women than men read books and, according to Newton, women read more fantasy fiction than science fiction. “They are driving forces behind sales of literature, and it is shaping the genre landscape. Women matter.”

• Culture has caught up with our imagination – that visionary, sense of wonder in science fiction is gone. “There is as much sensawonder in an Apple conference as there is in a novel.”

• Literary fiction is eating up SF. “Jeanette Winterson, Toby Litt, Margaret Atwood – the ‘literary’ brigade are taking SF ideas, recycling them as something new, packaging them for mainstream tastes. And more importantly, dragging the ideas to a section of the bookstore or readership that aren’t likely to visit the SF section.”

• The popularity of fantasy movies like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings has created a new generation of fantasy readers. “This younger audience has taken to the blogosphere with aplomb, and run with it. The community grows daily. Just look how many more fantasy blogs and forums exist over those for SF. SF has not received anything like this monumental influence in culture…”

I couldn’t agree more with Newton about young readers growing up as fantasy fans. Just look at pop culture – The Twilight saga, Buffy, True Blood, Charmed, The Vampire Diaries, etc. When I was growing up in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s, I was nourished with nothing but science fiction, it seems – Star Trek, The Jetsons, Land of the Lost, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes, etc. It is definitely a different world today…

In a B&N.com interview in 2008, Orson Scott Card expressed similar feelings and remarked that science fiction is “no longer a cutting-edge genre – the edge is now in fantasy.”

Interestingly enough, Newton’s statements reflect those in a short essay Martin wrote in 1996 entitled “On Fantasy,” which beautifully describes why we love fantasy – and it may also explain why science fiction is experiencing an extended season of wither…

“The best fantasy is written in the language of dreams. It is alive as dreams are alive, more real than real ... for a moment at least ... that long magic moment before we wake.

Fantasy is silver and scarlet, indigo and azure, obsidian veined with gold and lapis lazuli. Reality is plywood and plastic, done up in mud brown and olive drab. Fantasy tastes of habaneros and honey, cinnamon and cloves, rare red meat and wines as sweet as summer. Reality is beans and tofu, and ashes at the end. Reality is the strip malls of Burbank, the smokestacks of Cleveland, a parking garage in Newark. Fantasy is the towers of Minas Tirith, the ancient stones of Gormenghast, the halls of Camelot. Fantasy flies on the wings of Icarus, reality on Southwest Airlines. Why do our dreams become so much smaller when they finally come true?

We read fantasy to find the colors again, I think. To taste strong spices and hear the songs the sirens sang. There is something old and true in fantasy that speaks to something deep within us, to the child who dreamt that one day he would hunt the forests of the night, and feast beneath the hollow hills, and find a love to last forever somewhere south of Oz and north of Shangri-La.

They can keep their heaven. When I die, I'd sooner go to Middle-earth.”

Originally posted by Jimmy562

Originally posted by Matt_UK

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Aquazen

Same here. Having agreed with you though I believe a good sandbox game does not need VO to be good if everything else is up to snuff. For themeparks, VO is going to be a must, and that can be very hard for indie companies to do as VO costs a lot of money (to do it right with talented VO actors).

Ya know what bugs me is how much heat Bioware took for doing all the voiceovers and yet there's Skyrim, as respected a RPG as you can get, and not one sandboxer has a bad word to say about all the VO work in it.

 

Er... because Skyrim isn't an mmorpg. Themepark mmos use VOs on npcs because the PC created world is non-existent. UO never needed voiceover (even if it had been available) because all the players were talking away to each other all the time. I don't care about the voiceovers in a single player game because i'm on my own and the NPCs are the only people to talk to.

Although I enjoyed SWToR there is a lack of chat between PCs, even in the General chatbox, because they are all listening to npc voiceovers. Voiceovers on npcs have taken over from interaction between players. Isn't that a bit sad in an mmorpg?

There was no lack of chat between players in my experience. Don't try and make VO a bad thing, its a god send to themepark MMO's. 

Not saying it's a bad thing, just trying to explain why it is so common thesedays. In my experience of pretty much every mmo ever since UO the more VO and NPC interaction the less need for players to get involved with other players. Maybe you saw plenty of chat, on the server I was on you could have 20+ people in an area and no one talking, it's pretty common thesedays in most themepark mmos. I suppose my point is, apart from outside of the flashpoints and the heroic missions, there is no need to cooperate or talk to anyone. I suppose in that respect it is more like Skyrim and most single player games.

Btw i've pre-ordered SWotR and i'm looking forward to playing on the 15th.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by popinjay

 

Complains about Rift.

Yes Rift has issues, i've never said other wise.

Yet I would still choose RIFT over TOR for the simple fact that if you take away the voiced NPCs SWTOR is nothing but the most generic mmorpg experience. 

 

 

 

 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm.  WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe.  SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe.  Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market. 
 
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic.  We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing.  See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but  Idont because its pointless and isst even true.  So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.

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High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.

The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm.  WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe.  SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe.  Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market. 
 
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic.  We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing.  See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but  Idont because its pointless and isst even true.  So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.

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So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.

 

 

 

High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.

 

 

The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.

 

High Fantasy is not going anywhere and neither should it. I would almost classify Star Wars as futuristic high fantasy.

Originally posted by Cameron27

 I'll make a point!

Reading quest dialogue isn't boring or dull for people who actually have an imagination and are proficient readers.

I agree, people are just too lazy anymore. I noticed exactly the same thing with movies as well. Silent movies where not only fine but better in a lot of ways. They would put the dialog right up there on the cuts and for people who actually have an imagination and are proficient readers it was great. So much more artistic flexibility. I don't see any reason why these talkies are so popular now.

And don't even get me started on color!

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Originally posted by pmaura

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Originally posted by popinjay
 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm.  WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe.  SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe.  Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market. 
 
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic.  We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing.  See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but  Idont because its pointless and isst even true.  So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.

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So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.
 
 
 
High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.
 
 

The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.
 

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High Fantasy is not going anywhere and neither should it. I would almost classify Star Wars as futuristic high fantasy.

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I'm saying companies aren't making these kinds of mmos anymore for the most part because we've been saturated over the last decade with them. People are tired of looking at pointy ears and beer mugs and would like something different.

Imo, it's part and parcel of why the clones never lasted. The games weren't as good as the original (EQ) and didn't have a good story so they got old fast. Now it's just rehash of the same story like Rift did:

Two factions. We hate each other. There is a 'bigger' threat. And some dragons.

/snoring now

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm.  WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe.  SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe.  Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market. 
 
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic.  We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing.  See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but  Idont because its pointless and isst even true.  So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.

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So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.

 

 

 

High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.

 

 

The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.

 

Speak for yourself, I'm still waiting on a very  open high fantasy mmo. I will never get tired of traditional mmo thinking and will get tired of developers who "think" they know what is what but don't know what is what, wtf.

Originally posted by I_Return

Speak for yourself, I'm still waiting on a very  open high fantasy mmo. I will never get tired of traditional mmo thinking and will get tired of developers who "think" they know what is what but don't know what is what, wtf.

Anyone want to translate this?

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Originally posted by I_Return

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Originally posted by popinjay
 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm.  WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe.  SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe.  Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market. 
 
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic.  We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing.  See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but  Idont because its pointless and isst even true.  So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.

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So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.
 
 
 
High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.
 
 

The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.
 

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Speak for yourself, I'm still waiting on a very  open high fantasy mmo.

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EQ1.

EQ2.

LOTRO.

WOW.

Runes of Magic.

FFXI.

FFXIV.

Rift.

I'm sorry, you said you're still waiting?

none have open world city building and open world seiging like Shadowbane.  Age of Conan comes close but it is instance, every game you listed either fails in pvp, pve or both.

Darkfall has to many exploits and Mortal Online is fps veiw, bothi things I hate in my mmo.

I'm still waiting.