Read your topic says it all there "Can we save SWTOR" what I am saying my advise BIOWARE pay MMORPG.com for all the IPs of the people that talked bad about SWG and ban all the so called vets off SWTOR right off the bat.  That is what we can do to save SWTOR.

Originally posted by maxkill42

love how when people say they are SWG Vets everyone else is suppose to bow down and listen like you are a god or some shit.

And thus he contributed not to the conversation, and was struck down by SWG Vets...I kid, but then I hope you were too. No doubt there are still a lot of people that still feel hurt about losing their game, and voice it often--but it was fairly unprecedented in MMO history, so I give those that are still angry some leeway...

The SWG forums were a joke back years ago. I remember folks with the sig "I support nudity in game" in the O forums. I mean how many stories were there of folks running virtual brothels with mangina ents back then? A pretty sick/twisted bunch.

The OP was exactly right with the contention SWG was more for a RP gamer. Those that enjoyed PnP games, probably were the ones that got into it. IMO though, PnP games were for the non-socially literate in high school. We all have a nerd side to some degree, and these folks were a nerd's nerd.

Which is why they have whined for so many years now. If they had any significant RL social interaction, they would realize others dont wanna hear someone bitch about the same thing for years on end.

I also agree with the contention that calling for nerfs all the time is a bad thing. I wont be a happy camper if they upset the PVE balance due to PVP issues. Hopefully 2 different rule sets are used.

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

Given that, what advice would give those that are excited for this new, and ONLY Star Wars MMO? I say "only" because SWG shuts down before the official launch of SWTOR.

Enjoy the game....  SWTOR isn't going anywhere regardless of what the haters say.... I played it for 4 months in beta and I'm not even close to being burned out on it....   I will say this the starter area does seem a bit boring at first, the fun is after you get your Advance Class and get the skills that define your AC, that's when the fun really begins...

I also think people make a big mistake by trying to play the game as a single player game, sure you can do it but I found it 10x's more fun being grouped up with friends...  all the conversations are setup for groups so you can all try and out roll each other to determine the outcome of the story or quest...  it's a lot of fun as long as your not some sort of control freak that has to have his way...

Also for people who say your decisions don't mean anything, there are several endings to each class story based on your choices through out the game...  So like all Bioware games your choices do decide how your story ends..

Bottom Line is the longevity of the game will be determined by future content updates and expansion packs, if Bioware plays it smart and keeps the quality high I can see this game lasting a very long time...

Originally posted by DexterMMO
Can you vlog this novel please? After playing Swtor I can't read that much without a voice over.

lol

MMO's need to be rebalanced every couple of weeks its been that way for ages and wont change now, Complacent devs kill games, vets crying over nerfs on forums dont...Well wait....Oh shit!

Originally posted by ksan24

You may want to compress your thoughts a bit.  I will not, nor will many people ever read this wall of text.  Just a thought for the future.

Agreed, it was a eye sore in the end trying to read it all just to get to the point of "lets not ruin this game" Point form is always a good start :)

OP, the reason people respond the way they do is because they didn't even bother skimming your wall of text, combined with your title. Without context it kinda sounds like you're on a mission to "save" SWTOR, which, considering most SWG vets' attitudes towards the game, would mean to "fix" it, that is making it more like SWG pre-NGE.

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

Originally posted by maxkill42

love how when people say they are SWG Vets everyone else is suppose to bow down and listen like you are a god or some shit.

And thus he contributed not to the conversation, and was struck down by SWG Vets...I kid, but then I hope you were too. No doubt there are still a lot of people that still feel hurt about losing their game, and voice it often--but it was fairly unprecedented in MMO history, so I give those that are still angry some leeway...

After 6 years, rather than making our eyes bleed from the same whining, perhaps they should look at the counseling that they should have submitted to years ago eh?

My God, one of those fruit cakes traced my IP, and was stalking not only myself, but my teenage daughter as well. It wasnt just us, as he went after several other folks besides. Lets not forget the "bomb threat" that person made for SOE fair to put the icing on the cake.

Instead of showing sympathy, these folks need to be told to STFU, and seek help if they cant let go. Doing otherwise is simply being an enabler.

Originally posted by darkboaz

Originally posted by kiern

You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".

Well said, well said indeed. All I would add is there where not many complaints in the SWG forums as they where heavily moderated and then the ban stick came out if you keep posting. We came here to have a voice and to talk about what was wrong. We all need to remember this place that we came to. MMORPG.COM is a place we can still speak our peace and not be cut off at the knees or silenced.

I agree with these two, as for saving ToR okay b, how bout let the game launch first. People will always complain its nature for a gamer to complain, I still do it mostly in sports and FPS games its a habital norm to do so. Also I'll be honest I didn't read your entire post I made it about 6 paragraphs down and was ready to stop there sum it up better please since it started to just seem like a nostaglic rant.

Lastly this may be in your post but as I said I didn't read it all but did you even play NGE???? It in all honesty was pretty damn good, it added content, made classes more balanced sure it gave it a wow facelift, but I actually enjoyed SWG this last year thanks to those improvements. I even dare to admit I'd still pay to play SWG even when ToR launches. I'll simply say the NGE at first glance wasn't something I enjoyed but I eventually adapted to what had changed around me and really started to enjoy it a whole lot more than I did Pre-CU. 

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

Originally posted by kiern

You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".

While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.

Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.

no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.

 

In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit. 

 

Well some things are overpowered.  It's not a matter of buying it.  Sometimes things end up being more powerful than expected, or is simply unbalanced with everything else.  It happens.  Not nearly as much as people on message boards cry about, but it does happen.

If you dislike something, it is bad, from your perspective.   If i dislike something, it is bad, from my perspective.  If i dislike something that you like, that doesn't make my opinion invalid.  It could be that the majority of people dislike it.  If no one says anything, per your suggestion, then there would be a lot of unhappy people.  And if all of them quit without saying why, what happens to the game?  It is silly to simply accept things that you don't like, and not say a word.  Things never get better if no one acknowledges there is a problem.   SWG didn't fail because people complained, it failed because people made mistakes.  People have complained daily about things in WoW, ever since the beginning, and it is still going strong. 

It's obvious most of the folks who replied didn't read your post, just the title or the first chapter. Not enough patience or stamina *shrugs*

I think you have a point but will it happen, don't think so (read above). And they are the ones who will do it as they don't have the patience to listen to the SWTOR story either (click click click.. on with the killing).

And the ones that are happy or content don't complain in the forums.

What I think BW/EA should do is do questionnaires in game (when logging in or something) about the class or some functionality so that they get everyone's opinion. Will this happen? Don't think so - unfortunately

A) Let the game launch first.  

B) Calling all "SWG vets" will get you a large smattering of opinions.  

C) SWG will be gone.  Forever.  Let it go.

Edit: and Flirt, Bioware has been VERY proactive in how it has been communicating with beta testers.  

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

Originally posted by kiern

You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".

While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.

Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.

no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.

 

In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit. 

 

One problem I have with short posts like "don't ask for nerfs to other classes!", is it lacks personality and is somewhat confrontational without context...and although I knew the "wall of text" comments were coming, thanks for participating.

Even considering that you, scoutmaster, said "I said something YOU may not like, that others do" rather than something that was just "bad" as Kiern accused you of, I still think Kierns stance towards providing honest feedback is the more sensible and helpful approach .

You suggest that lying about  the reasons you quit would help the game be better than telling the truth when you said "if you rage quit because your character is too lame to complete the quest or you don't have any friends that are willing to help you, then don't mention why you're quitting when they ask you...make up something like "school/work demands" or don't give a reason at all. That way, it doesn't jeopardize something others enjoy." If people are quiting in droves because they cannot find friends to play with and told the truth bioware might actually improve the social matchmaking components and the game might retain more players while if they lie it could completely mislead the developers.

I'm sorry but Kierns attitude and take on the issue, in his one main paragraph, is far more far more helpful to the success of the game in the long term than your original post. In my opinion your post was well writtenbut it wasn't logical. You suggest that providing false information on individual feedback forms would give the developers a more sound understanding of what needs to stay the same or change in order to satisfy people. In short I think Kierns approach was the right one.

Originally posted by kiern

...Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game...

Like Slicing.  For a while in beta it was the best way to make the big money.  Had a 14th level slicer that spent creds like water, and still had 4 times as much on hand as my very frugal 23rd level that could barely afford skill training. Of course the 'on hand' was before buying that levels worth of skills for the 23rd level, but afterwards for the 14th.

Yeah, it was that money heavy, but you got almost no components. In all that time, my slicer had only gotten about 6 crafting components from the skill.

They fixed it, it now drops stuff in line with the other gathering/mission skills, more or less. And when they did, the whining just about shattered every window in the game. Seems some people forgot that balancing is also done in betas. Fortunately there were plenty of experienced beta testers that damped down the impending mob. 

Sometimes nerfs are needed, yes. But then again, Sony is a company known for Nerfophilia. If it can be fixed with an hours worth of work, or two hours of nerfing, they go for the nerf.  Talk about nerf-herders... (yeah, star wars reference) Is Bioware going to do the same thing?  Maybe, but they seem to be more on the ball, so I'm thinking they'll strive for balance +/- as appropriate.

Still, the first poster is right also, don't whine too much about somebody else being better at something. Most of the time I see someone in games QQing about so-and-so is better at something than my character, it's usually because that character was designed to only do that as a secondary, or even tertiary ability, while the one the complainer is crying about being overpowered was designed for that to be one of it's primary abilities.

As to the long explanation, I obviously get stuck in those too. It's an attempt to explain and convince rather than just saying something like, "nuh-uh, is not...".  (Especially if there are several points to make, arguing like a 1st grader is pointless.)

Thanks for reading :)

Originally posted by kiern

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

Originally posted by kiern

You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".

While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.

Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.

no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.

 

In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit. 

 

Well some things are overpowered.  It's not a matter of buying it.  Sometimes things end up being more powerful than expected, or is simply unbalanced with everything else.  It happens.  Not nearly as much as people on message boards cry about, but it does happen.

If you dislike something, it is bad, from your perspective.   If i dislike something, it is bad, from my perspective.  If i dislike something that you like, that doesn't make my opinion invalid.  It could be that the majority of people dislike it.  If no one says anything, per your suggestion, then there would be a lot of unhappy people.  And if all of them quit without saying why, what happens to the game?  It is silly to simply accept things that you don't like, and not say a word.  Things never get better if no one acknowledges there is a problem.   SWG didn't fail because people complained, it failed because people made mistakes.  People have complained daily about things in WoW, ever since the beginning, and it is still going strong. 

 

 

I believe that because of that fact--that it's in player's nature to only think about his/herself (and their circle)--that cash shops might help some people avoid those things they don't like doing, but were put in game for a reason--especially if those features are enjoyed by a lot of players. I do agree there is a limit...devs can "grief" players too lol, and sometimes we have to speak up.

---

Originally posted by Majwood
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen.  Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you.  SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.

---

+1 but that goes for all the whiners.

Originally posted by ozmono

Originally posted by ScoutMastr

Originally posted by kiern

You sure spent a lot of time, and text, to say "don't ask for nerfs to other classes and professions".

While i generally agree with that idea, I disagree with your idea that you should never complain about anything, even if it is so bad that it makes you quit playing. Sorry, but if something is so bad that it makes me quit, then no, I will not ignore the exit survey and keep it to myself. The game doesn't improve if people ignore the things they hate. Just like in beta, you provide feedback and hope the devs are good enough to weed the important stuff out from the whines.

Plus, sometime some things are overpowered and need to be nerfed for the betterment of the game.

no, I never said something "bad", I said something YOU may not like, that others do--and to accept that, not ruin it for them. I don't want my input to cause the devs to remove a feature that some players enjoy...unless it's not working as intended of course--lol many people enjoy exploits.

 

In fact, I'm not one of those people that really buys the "overpowered" argument unless it's a bug or exploit. 

 

One problem I have with short posts like "don't ask for nerfs to other classes!", is it lacks personality and is somewhat confrontational without context...and although I knew the "wall of text" comments were coming, thanks for participating.

Even considering that you, scoutmaster, said "I said something YOU may not like, that others do" rather than something that was just "bad" as Kiern accused you of, I still think Kierns stance towards providing honest feedback is the more sensible and helpful approach .

 

You suggest that lying about  the reasons you quit would help the game be better than telling the truth when you said "if you rage quit because your character is too lame to complete the quest or you don't have any friends that are willing to help you, then don't mention why you're quitting when they ask you...make up something like "school/work demands" or don't give a reason at all. That way, it doesn't jeopardize something others enjoy." If people are quiting in droves because they cannot find friends to play with and told the truth bioware might actually improve the social matchmaking components and the game might retain more players while if they lie it could completely mislead the developers.

 

I'm sorry but Kierns attitude and take on the issue, in his one main paragraph, is far more far more helpful to the success of the game in the long term than your original post. In my opinion your post was well writtenbut it wasn't logical. You suggest that providing false information on individual feedback forms would give the developers a more sound understanding of what needs to stay the same or change in order to satisfy people. In short I think Kierns approach was the right one.

 

Yes, you guys have a point--I should probably have addressed that more to devs than players...I know how frustrating it is to have something removed from a game that was important to my enjoyment, and how the devs justified it's removal...which is, it's easier to remove it, instead of providing a path around it...like maybe cash shops. Hopefully BIOWARE/EA won't take that path, and instead of removing things that annoy some players, they'll come up with a better solution.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

---

Originally posted by Majwood
is it just me? but I hope there are no SWG vets that play SWTOR because from reading these forums for years they have been some of the biggest cry babies I have ever seen.  Go find something else to play SWTOR will be good with out you.  SWTOR doesnt need saving it just doesnt need a bunch of cry babies.

---

 

+1 but that goes for all the whiners.

There are a few good sandbox posters on this site.  The ones that stand out as good sports are Kyleran and Loke666. The problem being is that they are the exception, and not the rule.

If there was a MMO site that was equal to what MMORPG.com  offers, and without the whining about "we want a sandbox", I would leave this place and never look back.

Then again maybe I wouldnt. The melt downs each time a new themepark is announced makes the rest of the BS somewhat tolerable.

You spent a lot of time writing but i dont think that devs are stupid to do whatever the community says.

They do what they want and what earns them money.

Money is behind everything

Hey Glenn Beck, get off of MMORPG.com forums, please. Thanks.