IMO this should result in an "IP Banned from my MMORPG" list that's posted for other game dev companies to share and basically perma-kick the retards from the genre.

Server backlash used to be enough to stall these guilds and make them thing twice, but that was back when EQ was the only real game on the market and they couldn't just jump ship and pollute other waters.  Brings to mind the "mass wolf form thru the pipes" exploit in VT in EQ and the server shunnings it brought.

oh well.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Quesa

The problem with calling them exploits is that it's only a label from a developer after they realize someone is using the game in a creative way.

EVERY person who did it knew it was wrong.

EVERYONE.

If they said "oh I didn't know that finding a creative way around loot rules was wrong"  they are lying.

 

You're missing the point, I'm just explaining that it's a creative use of game mechanics until a developer or GM labels it as an exploit.  Whether someone felt it was wrong or not will depend upon that persons moral compass.  I've used exploits before in certain content because it's fun to hunt them down - it's the sandboxer in me.

Additionally, I don't see why people get all up in arms about this type of behavior.  It's not like they are directly affecting your gameplay unless it's like the AQ40 opening in WoW or something where you had a chance to do x and someone exploited their way to it first over your legal use of the game mechanics.

There are cheaters in life and people don't get as upset, all you need to do to find them is look towards Washington and you'll find a bunch of em - but there they sit, election after election, so I guess people really don't hate cheaters THAT bad.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by pmiles

Hate to tell you this but all those WoW fanbois you are so worried about are the same folks who beta tested SW:TOR.  You can't escape them because they play all the games, not just WoW.

 

As for exploits, that's the fault of any game company resorting to players as primary game testers.  If they actually paid people to test their games they'd be able to find thier own bugs and neutralize them before they were broadcast across the entire internet as a strategy on how to do it.  It's human nature to exploit weaknesses... putting the mice in charge of the cheese only promotes it.

So the exploiters had no choice?

Right...

They made the choice to Exploit

Paragon said they knew better and did it anyway.

They deserve what they get.

Paid game testers get paid to help developers fix bugs... they aren't players looking to get a first look at the game or get some inside edge before it actually goes live.  You have exploits because the game is being tested PRIMARILY by players looking to get an edge on the game.  I don't care if Blizzard bans them or doesn't ban them... they're too cheap to properly test their games, they should expect shoddy game testing because of it.  They only DID SOMETHING about this AFTER the massive outcry on the forums.  Not that it really matters much in the end, world firsts are meaningless these days since they happen within hours of the content going live.  And why is that?  Because they already learned how to beat the game on the PTR.  So if you are really concerned about exploits... the PTR is the #1 exploit in the game... fully sanctioned by Blizzard too.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Quesa

The problem with calling them exploits is that it's only a label from a developer after they realize someone is using the game in a creative way.

EVERY person who did it knew it was wrong.

EVERYONE.

If they said "oh I didn't know that finding a creative way around loot rules was wrong"  they are lying.

 

True, but you have to think that a stronger group of devs would have done a better job in the first place.

Originally posted by Acvivm

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Quesa

The problem with calling them exploits is that it's only a label from a developer after they realize someone is using the game in a creative way.

EVERY person who did it knew it was wrong.

EVERYONE.

If they said "oh I didn't know that finding a creative way around loot rules was wrong"  they are lying.

 

They even reported the exploit to the developers while they were on the PTR. Blizzard didn't say anything about it at first so in their mind that means "Blizzard thinks its ok!! so lets do it!".

So you file a report, get no reply

AND THAT SAYS ITS OK?

...

What world are you living in?

This isnt a new thing, about once a year there is some ban wave of guilds that used an exploit to kill a Boss or to skip content. In all of the cases including this one it didnt involved any true exploits i.e. programs that modify the client or the memory in real time and they usually exploit some design flaw like unclipped terrain that allows you to go trough a wall and skip content, or a sweet spot that allows you to hit the boss while avoiding a fight mechanic.

The sad part is that if it wasnt top guilds they would mostlikely gotten a perma-ban or a much longer ban than 8 days, also the fact that they didnt used any true exploits kinda makes it blizzard's fault. For example during vanilla there was an "exploit" that people used to do MC with much higher FR than it was possible to gain normaly. the summoner mobs in LBRS had a mind had a fire resist buff, if you MC those mobs they would cast it on any friendly target which means they would cast it on the group members that were zoned in at the time. After couple of months when blizzard found about it they made a big forum posrt about it and many guilds stopped using it for a week or 2, after couple of weeks Blizzard made another post stated it was not an exploit that that those mobs were not there by accident. It was bs ofc but it just shows that blizzard makes design misstakes that later they claim it was a feature. As long as no external exploits are used, the most blizzard can do is say sorry we've made a misstake and warn the people to stop using the so called exploit, i dont know if any warrnings were issued prior to the ban but blizzard rarely warns people before banning them sadly(just like EA).

Some Sundays you simply just wake up with a smile.

Thanks for posting :)

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Acvivm

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Quesa

The problem with calling them exploits is that it's only a label from a developer after they realize someone is using the game in a creative way.

EVERY person who did it knew it was wrong.

EVERYONE.

If they said "oh I didn't know that finding a creative way around loot rules was wrong"  they are lying.

 

They even reported the exploit to the developers while they were on the PTR. Blizzard didn't say anything about it at first so in their mind that means "Blizzard thinks its ok!! so lets do it!".

So you file a report, get no reply

AND THAT SAYS ITS OK?

...

What world are you living in?

I am agreeing with you Laughing Man, Its beyond crazy that they thought it was ok.

>,< looking back on what I wrote I guess it could be interrupted either way but yea I was going with that you wrote :).

I love these people that are siding with the exploiters. Trying to make it sound all ok. They would watch a news story about a 90 year old woman that is rapped when 2 thugs break into her house. And these guys would side with the criminals "Hey she had on a sexy bath robe. She was asking for it."

Tyr

Originally posted by kaibigan34

I love these people that are siding with the exploiters. Trying to make it sound all ok. They would watch a news story about a 90 year old woman that is rapped when 2 thugs break into her house. And these guys would side with the criminals "Hey she had on a sexy bath robe. She was asking for it."

 

Tyr

LOL excellent post !

Heres is a pretty obvious example of exploiting vs. creative thinking straight from this topic...

You are allowed to loot a Boss once a week...

You kill said Boss again before that week is up and verify this to be true...

One day, you realize with your creative thinking that hey, if I zone in and out, I can loot all I want...

So, you want to label this as creative thinking or exploiting?

I think creative thinking is a term made up by players who go out of their way to abuse game mechanic designs in ways not intended by developers.

EDIT: Try using the famous phrase... If it feels wrong, don't do it, before doing something that may get you banned.

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Originally posted by Laughing-man

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Originally posted by Acvivm

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Originally posted by Laughing-man

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Originally posted by Quesa

The problem with calling them exploits is that it's only a label from a developer after they realize someone is using the game in a creative way.

---

EVERY person who did it knew it was wrong.
EVERYONE.
If they said "oh I didn't know that finding a creative way around loot rules was wrong"  they are lying.
 

---

They even reported the exploit to the developers while they were on the PTR. Blizzard didn't say anything about it at first so in their mind that means "Blizzard thinks its ok!! so lets do it!".

---

So you file a report, get no reply
AND THAT SAYS ITS OK?
...
What world are you living in?

---

The thing you are over looking is that those guilds are crazy about competition, so if some bugs are out for too long, a lot of people will be aware of those and more and more will use them the longer they stay in. If a company don't fix their bugs, its like forcing people to use them. As people used to say, "if you let your house open don't be surprise if you got robbed". So putting all the fault on one side is a bit "naive". But ye if they fix their bug fast enough, this mean a month or 2 max for some main bug, then yes for sure they can ban everyone that exploited. But if those bugs stay for years like in many games, is it the fault of the player to use them?

Ps i hate exploiter, but i played long enough to know why and how they take place. And game companies certainly are faulty most of the time because they don't fix them, like ever. And its not just Blizz but all the mmos.

I'm still confused why the word best is being used to describe cheaters. Every single raid these supposed "best" guilds get caught cheating and get a few days ban. EVERY TIME. Its not new.

You can use the argument that they do over in wow that "you just arent good enough to be in that guild" for everyone that calls out cheaters. Truth is most of us dont want to be associated with pathetic people that have to cheat for pathetic internet epeen awards.

Suspended, not banned.

Blizzard is pretty wimpy this way.

I lost a lot of respect for Blizzard when they let their best guilds transfer from PvE to PvP servers when noone else could.

Originally posted by Zeal77

We don"t want your cheaters.

:D

This is nothing new. Many of the best sports players use steroids, for example. The same will happen in competitive video games; and yes, this is a competition for these guilds to be world firsts. It is not Blizzard's fault, and Bioware should get ready to deal with it too. On a different note, you cannot say entirely that these guilds have no merit because they exploited. They are still the best guilds around; it's the same as how people still esteem Andre Agassi as one of history's great tennis players, even though he later admited to using steroids. These guilds still have the most dedicated and skilled players. 

How is this a big deal?  So a few guilds who want to say they are server first cheat a bit.  How does this effect the 99.999% of teh other players?  I know I am not in competition with these folks and niether is my guild.

Sure they cheat, but the only ones they are competeing against are the other .01% of the total amount of gulds and those guilds are filled with a bunch of douchebags anyways.

8 days ban and they all Rage quit trololol

Uhhh, I wish the "hardcore" WoW guilds would stay exactly that "hardcore" WoW guilds.