Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest.   I am not talking PvP.    Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a play opponent.

In that case you're right,  until you get off the home world (not the starter planet,  the HOME world)  you won't find any engrossing PvE.   Enemies don't start using real special abilities until aroun 16 - 17 for flashpoints, and about 25+ for world content,  even though they did mention they were adding more special abilities.

 

I've had some engrossing battles in the mid 20s all the way to max level in SWTOR.  But I feel where BioWare has faltered is they didn't put any of that content in the early levels.   I've played the starter planets so much it truly is, as you say, somewhat of a PvE snooze fest.    The only thing that consistently pulls me through to the fun content is the story. (and the ability to PvP at level 10.)

Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

PvP and PvE are two different things...the PvE in SW:ToR is a snooze fest.   I am not talking PvP.    Of course PvP is going to be more dynamic...most PvP in any MMO is going to be more dynamic because you are facing a play opponent.

In that case you're right,  until you get off the home world (not the starter planet,  the HOME world)  you won't find any engrossing PvE.   Enemies don't start using real special abilities until aroun 16 - 17 for flashpoints, and about 25+ for world content,  even though they did mention they were adding more special abilities.

 

I've had some engrossing battles in the mid 20s all the way to max level in SWTOR.  But I feel where BioWare has faltered is they didn't put any of that content in the early levels.   I've played the starter planets so much it truly is, as you say, somewhat of a PvE snooze fest.    The only thing that consistently pulls me through to the fun content is the story. (and the ability to PvP at level 10.)

 

Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.

Yes, I know,  and really as the starter world is just an extended tutorial,  and the home world is really just getting and learning your advanced class,  I understand why experienced MMO players feel a little bored.

There really isn't much of a challenge for a lot of the early content,  and there isn't supposed to be,  I think a big part of what BioWare is banking on, is bringing in a lot of people who haven't played MMOs or haven't played very many of them, whereas, just about everyone here has likely played 5 or more within the last year or two.

The early game isn't indicative of what to expect at higher levels,  but for those who are looking for a more challenging MMO, they won't get it right out of the gate with SWTOR.  It just wasn't built like that.

Originally posted by Kuinn

Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.

Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?

First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Kuinn

Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.

 

Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?

First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.

My thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by wizyy

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Kuinn

Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.

 

Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?

First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.

My thoughts exactly.

I concur.. to some degree.. but BioWares mainstay isn't going to be the early game - as far as gameplay is concerned,  people will stick with the early game because they want to follow the story.  People will connect with strategic gameplay when they hit the late teens.

Voiceover... and that's pretty much it. I'd wager 80% or more of the total budget went to the voice acting. Remove that, and it becomes an extremely pedestrian MMO.

Best moves related to anything Star War IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7q-u0JTR4&feature=related

And since when was I trying to side with good or bad? I just posted it, u all have turned it into a whats better then what post. personaly I really dont care what is better.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Kuinn

Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.

 

Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?

First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.

First impressions are important ofcourse, I've personally passed on some games (including mmorpgs) based on first impressions. I also understand the first levels especially are extreme easy mode so that some more casual or bad players dont feel like they are being left out, or just for tutorial purposes, in fact I cant even remember a single player game that was hard from the get go. If a person quits before lvl15 there's propably something else than the difficulty in the game that they dont like.

What comes to animations, TOR should do extremely well in this department when it comes to first impressions since it has really good animations.

Just for trivia, WAR was one of the games that I quit eventually one of the big reasons being piss poor animations on chars and mobs, not to mention the bugs in the animations. TOR however is doing fine, and I personally dont feel it deserves to be whined about the animations, and tbh, I dont even believe the animation whine is honest.

Just for trivia, WAR was one of the games that I quit eventually one of the big reasons being piss poor animations on chars and mobs, not to mention the bugs in the animations. TOR however is doing fine, and I personally dont feel it deserves to be whined about the animations, and tbh, I dont even believe the animation whine is honest.

I agree that SWTOR animations are better than WAR or LoTRO (just look at starter area wolf, walks like it has 3 legs), but it still does not look like it took enough time and love from developers, for such a huge title.

That does not mean it will be a bad game or that people won't have fun in it, it's just a little bit dissapointing.

Originally posted by Loekii

Originally posted by wizyy

Originally posted by sanosukex

AoC combat ones were pretty good the deathblow animations were great but the jumping!!! like LOTRO online the jumping animation was just horrifyingly bad. But Swtor one isn't much better. I dunno why but jumping animations bother me so much when they are done bad and there are pretty awful in most MMOs

Agreed completely, I can live without a jumping animation in a MMORPG, but if it's done and done so horribly like in AoC or LoTRO.... ugh.

Ruins the game for me (especially when some ugly caster is jumping up and down on my perfect warrior's corpse :P)

I think WoW did a decent job with their Jumping animations -- although I do agree it can be annoying.

 

Personally, if I have to see jumping, I want to see good animaitons, instead of the generic potato sac race hop.

 

yea wow's were fine especially elf races with the little roll they did every now and then. A lot of games have trouble with jumping animations not sure why even lot of single player games the jumping animations are really bad compared to the rest of the animations

Originally posted by wizyy

I agree that SWTOR animations are better than WAR or LoTRO (just look at starter area wolf, walks like it has 3 legs), but it still does not look like it took enough time and love from developers, for such a huge title.

That does not mean it will be a bad game or that people won't have fun in it, it's just a little bit dissapointing.

sums up everything I've tested in beta.... hopefully the content patches come fast...

Originally posted by Ginaz

Best moves related to anything Star War IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7q-u0JTR4&feature=related

 

That chick is hot :)

Originally posted by BarryManilow

Originally posted by Ginaz

Best moves related to anything Star War IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7q-u0JTR4&feature=related

 

That chick is hot :)

yea

Olivia Munn!

so hot

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Originally posted by keithian

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Originally posted by observer
The player animations are great. The enemy AI just stand there though, as if they're immovable.

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They do move sometimes a little :-), but I agree that I wish the AI was better. Then I remember that there has yet to be AI that is intelligent in ANY MMO out today and I don't see it getting any better with GW2. 

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Originally posted by Vhaln

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Originally posted by Kuinn
Remember most of the whine here at mmorpg.com at least, is based on the first 10 levels. Or no levels at all.

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Wasn't it Blizzard that did a study showing that a huge percentage of players who didn't subscribe past the free month never even made it past level 15?
First impressions are important, and I think animation quality can be a major part of that.

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Usually there are so many restrictions on many FTP games that most of those trying don't sub anyways, not just for Blizzard because you don't get what the game is really like.

This is why people quit after the trial:

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Now, under the new program called World of Warcraft Starter Edition, new players can play at their own pace without having to worry that the free trial will expire. When they reach level 20, they can continue playing but will stop earning experience, making it impossible to level up. To play past level 20, new players will need to upgrade to the full version of the game, which can be done online here.

Although there’s no time limit for trial players, there’s a great deal of other restrictions besides the 20-level limit: Trial players can have a maximum of 100 gold; their trade skills are capped at 100 ranks; they are unable to trade in the Auction House or join guilds; their chat options are limited; and they cannot invite other players into a party and so on.

In short, the game itself may be free, but it’s a far cry from the full World of Warcraft experience.

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Originally posted by velebnicek

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Originally posted by keithian

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Originally posted by observer
The player animations are great. The enemy AI just stand there though, as if they're immovable.

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They do move sometimes a little :-), but I agree that I wish the AI was better. Then I remember that there has yet to be AI that is intelligent in ANY MMO out today and I don't see it getting any better with GW2. 

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Too bad Tabula Rasa is dead.
I hope some day somebody creates a feeling of "stuff happening around you" that that game was able to provide.

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Those games died for a reason, mainly because more people seemed to like it now that it's dead than when it was alive.

So, for the people complaining about animations in this game, what are you actually complaining about?  Running and jumping?  Because there is no way anyone could be complaining about actual combat animations.  Bioware nailed that.  

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Originally posted by popinjay

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Originally posted by Teala

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Originally posted by maskedweasel

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Originally posted by Teala

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Originally posted by popinjay

 

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I did get a chance to play it in CBT2, and the combat was more fluid than what you find in SW:ToR and it requires you to pay attention to your position when attacking and defending, because you can dodge and block attacks, as well as position yourself so that the enemy has to turn and face you to actually hit you.   Standing toe-to-toe in this game is not recommended.  You also do more damage to your target if you can get behind of out flank them.

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Positioning does matter in TOR too,  but positioning overall means a lot in other games like Phantasy Star,  TERA,  GW and so on.     Blade and Soul will not change the way MMOs are created or the way they are played.  It will not be a new revolution.  We already have games on the market with very fluid and different combat,  DCUO for instance,  which actually puts a lot more emphasis on skillful combat than Blade and Soul (even in PvE) and does it very well.    
 
Basically, all these new MMOs that people think are somehow inspirations I was playing back on the dreamcast...  there is nothing new about them or gamechanging.  That is all.

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Not from my game experience it doesn't.   Most combat is static, stand face to face and play whack-the-mole. 

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Not sure what classes you've played in ToR, but postitioning very important from Smugglers needing cover to Jedis who do massive crit damage from behind.

This doesn't look to be the case in B and S. B and S is just more DCUO combat, roll/dodge, attack roll/dodge. It's fun but Blade and Soul really isn't something revolutionary.

Just bigger boobs (arguably) and nicer graphics than DCUO.

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I hope the armor in the game are going to be AMAZING because the caracthere look totally normal and not sexy to be a girl or a man ... seriously Its missing some boobs ...

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

So, for the people complaining about animations in this game, what are you actually complaining about?  Running and jumping?  Because there is no way anyone could be complaining about actual combat animations.  Bioware nailed that.  

 

jumping in this game is pretty bad.. not as bad as conan or LOTRO but still not good. And as for the rest a well.. a lot of the animations in themself are very good the main issue is when they come together it just doesn't look or feel right when playing especially in PVP. Melee blaster deflection animation is good but attacking not so much. When you have multiple people fighting using various animations they just don't work well together at all.. The range attacks aren't as noticable because well for the most part its ranged and you are just sitting back shooting. BH has so great ones with the jet pack as well. Operative and smuggler have some of the worst animations I have seen in the game. The stealth opener ones are laughably bad. And like I said if you sit there in PVE and look at them they look fine solo for the most part but throwing a ton of PC's together and watching how all the animations work togther is a pretty big mess aside from lightsaber blaster deflection.

After saying that most MMOs have the same or similar issue when it comes to PVP. Although for me watching videos of PVP in some other MMOs is at least entertaining. Here unless you are actually playing watching it is just pretty dull. This mostly comes from the slower pace of combat.

Either way I'm sure you disagree completley and think I'm out of my mind but I have been playing these games since they first started and yes its just my opinion but its my opinion after playing 100+ of these types of games over the years(paid and free ones)