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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Does TOR have a major flaw like past MMO's on release that will stop it from holding subs long term?

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192 posts found
  Juggerz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/11
Posts: 78

12/08/11 7:08:16 PM#41

I remember the bioware devs in an interview with Total Biscuit said that they followed WoWs success plan and are planning on adding content right off the bat.

This game WILL be huge. (Planets being added constantly etc etc etc)

The best thing for any MMO company is to learn from their successers, and WoW is by far the most successful MMO to date.

I am hoping SWTOR will last a very long time, like the devs said before!  The faster they churn out the content and fixes the better...

  Cthulhu23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1027

12/08/11 7:08:23 PM#42
Originally posted by fiontar

Is it a major flaw? Yes, indeed it is. Will they fix it? Most likely not. Why? Because the game relies so heavily on the fully voiced story elements, any new zones are also going to be expected to also have fully voiced story elements. Other MMOs, no matter how great the need for additional leveling content redundancy, have (almost)  never, (to my knowledge), added additional zones to expand the leveling content, outside of full expansions, after release. It's a daunting enough prospect as it is, but add the additional work needed for full story elements and voiced content? It's just not going to happen.

 

Incorrect.  BW has made it very clear that they've developed the tools to crank out updates easily without losing any of their VO.  In fact, they've still got hundreds of hours of voiceovers they haven't yet used, and their voice actors/actresses are basically full-time employees and available to BW as they see fit.  

And with the way the game is designed, adding in a new planet is much easier than having to recode what is already there to add more like in other MMOs.  Adding more planets to this game, no matter what level, will not be the daunting task you make it out to be.  

Will they add in those planets during the leveling process rather than strictly as end game content?  I don't know.  But if they don't do it, it won't be because the voice acting makes it difficult.  

  SethiusX

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/08
Posts: 169

 
OP  12/08/11 7:09:49 PM#43
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

I'll be sure to demand McDonald's special sauce next time I eat at Tomo Sushi, then.

Again....the features of ONE game do not make a "standard". A standard is a widely accepted and applied principle...such as hit points.

If Tomo Sushi offers Big Macs, I would too! Dang, can't have a big mac without the special sauce.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

12/08/11 7:11:34 PM#44

Mobs die faster because instead of 1 mob that you attack like in some other MMO's, in SWTOR it's more often the case that you'll attack a pack of 3-4 mobs at the same time. As a whole you'll take more damage (as a % of your health) than in the regular 1-mob encounters in other MMO's, but the separate mobs in each encounter die faster than the singular mob in an encounter in other MMO's.

 

As for the OP's question, I think that the major flaw of SWTOR is that it's too much a traditional themepark MMO in its core aspects. It has polish, an abundance of content and as equal the number of features and then some as other AAA MMO's, plus its own changes and distinctions (Crew Skills, companions, cover, Ilum RvR style PvP, VO/cutscene/choice based questing, etc).

But to people who have burnt themselves out on themepark MMO gameplay because of playing them for many, many thousands of hours over many years, to those people SWTOR might still be too familiar to a gameplay format they used to like but have grown averse to over the years.

I'd describe that as the major flaw of SWTOR to a part of the MMO population, it all depends how burnt out and jaded some MMO gamers have become and to what gameplay aspects this aversion or MMO allergy extends to.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  User Deleted
12/08/11 7:12:28 PM#45
Originally posted by SethiusX
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

I'll be sure to demand McDonald's special sauce next time I eat at Tomo Sushi, then.

Again....the features of ONE game do not make a "standard". A standard is a widely accepted and applied principle...such as hit points.

If Tomo Sushi offers Big Macs, I would too! Dang, can't have a big mac without the special sauce.

Well, they don't But since it's the best selling sandwich in America, it should be the "standard", according to some of the "logic" around here.

  StoneRoses

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 911

12/08/11 7:16:46 PM#46
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by SethiusX
Originally posted by Cthulhu23

My one major gripe with the game, as of now, is that aside from the first two planets, every class from either side has to take the same route to level cap.  There are no overlapping of planets during the leveling process, and I think this is something that BW is going to have to add in later.  

I like this. This is in the spirit of the thread, and it is certainly a possible flaw. It is fixable, but will they be able to correct this before people hit max level and go back and play alts and find they need new leveling content?

Hoth and Quesh share the exact same level range, just to give a small example of diverging leveling paths.

The problem is that people are judging SWTOR based on the first little bit of the game, since few people other than long term beta testers have seen anything else.

People seem to think that because they played through 15 levels of the game and read some reviews and interviews, that they KNOW everything that SWTOR has to offer.

Time will rectify this issue.

 

To answer the OP....no, I don't see any glaring flaws in SWTOR. The game is not perfect, and has it's faults, but nothing that outweighs it's merits.

 

Very rarely did you see anyone +15 or higher in the last 3 beta test. Everyone was rerolling trying out each or more than 1 class. It was Hard finding a group for Hammer Station Flashpoint because of this.

You are right, 1-10lvl testers seemed to have it all figured out.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

12/08/11 7:19:14 PM#47
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Mobs die faster because instead of 1 mob that you attack like in some other MMO's, in SWTOR it's more often the case that you'll attack a pack of 3-4 mobs at the same time. As a whole you'll take more damage (as a % of your health) than in the regular 1-mob encounters in other MMO's, but the separate mobs in each encounter die faster than the singular mob in an encounter in other MMO's.

 

As for the OP's question, I think that the major flaw of SWTOR is that it's too much a traditional themepark MMO in its core aspects. It has polish, an abundance of content and as equal the number of features and then some as other AAA MMO's, plus its own changes and distinctions (Crew Skills, companions, cover, Ilum RvR style PvP, VO/cutscene/choice based questing, etc).

But to people who have burnt themselves out on themepark MMO gameplay because of playing them for many, many thousands of hours over many years, to those people SWTOR might still be too familiar to a gameplay format they used to like but have grown averse to over the years.

I'd describe that as the major flaw of SWTOR to a part of the MMO population, it all depends how burnt out and jaded some MMO gamers have become and to what gameplay aspects this aversion or MMO allergy extends to.

I agree with this as it is the reason I chose not to play SWTOR. I'll go one further notch on the criticism though and say that I feel that compaired to the epic voice acted story line quests, any familiar themepark features feel dull and drab. And SWOTOR's feel much worse as they cut many of those features to the bone to make room for the time and resources needed to add the epic VO story lines. Personally I could have lived with basic themepark features outside the class story lines if Bioware had put more effort into them, but as they are they feel (TO ME) less interesting than similar features I grew sick of in other games five years ago.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  Ashlinde

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 133

12/08/11 7:20:14 PM#48
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by SethiusX
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

I'll be sure to demand McDonald's special sauce next time I eat at Tomo Sushi, then.

Again....the features of ONE game do not make a "standard". A standard is a widely accepted and applied principle...such as hit points.

If Tomo Sushi offers Big Macs, I would too! Dang, can't have a big mac without the special sauce.

Well, they don't But since it's the best selling sandwich in America, it should be the "standard", according to some of the "logic" around here.

the big mac is NOT the best selling sandwich at mcdonalds worldwide. the quarter pounder with cheese is. a simple google search would save you a lot of embarassment.

considering we are comparing to WOW, also a global product, it would be completely unfair to only have US sales for such an item....

 

  User Deleted
12/08/11 7:22:22 PM#49
Originally posted by Ashlinde
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by SethiusX
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

I'll be sure to demand McDonald's special sauce next time I eat at Tomo Sushi, then.

Again....the features of ONE game do not make a "standard". A standard is a widely accepted and applied principle...such as hit points.

If Tomo Sushi offers Big Macs, I would too! Dang, can't have a big mac without the special sauce.

Well, they don't But since it's the best selling sandwich in America, it should be the "standard", according to some of the "logic" around here.

the big mac is NOT the best selling sandwich at mcdonalds worldwide. the quarter pounder with cheese is. a simple google search would save you a lot of embarassment.

considering we are comparing to WOW, also a global product, it would be completely unfair to only have US sales for such an item....

 

In that case, I will be sure to demand a quarter pounder with cheese at Tomo Sushi, next time.

Regardless, one sandwich does not make a standard, no matter how popular, and one game's features do not make a standard, no matter how popular.

Quest based leveling is a standard (in themepark games). Hitpoints are a standard. A hotbar is a standard.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15533

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

12/08/11 7:23:23 PM#50
Originally posted by Ashlinde

the big mac is NOT the best selling sandwich at mcdonalds worldwide. the quarter pounder with cheese is. a simple google search would save you a lot of embarassment.

considering we are comparing to WOW, also a global product, it would be completely unfair to only have US sales for such an item....

 

Embarassment because he got Mcdonalds best selling sandwich wrong? really?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2609

12/08/11 7:23:30 PM#51

The fundamental flaw with SW:TOR is going to be the exact same major flaw that plagues Rift and LotRO.  Each of these games seeks to be the alternative to WoW and not THE NEXT WoW.  By that very nature, developers are essentially trying to simply be second best rather than trying to blow the doors wide open like WoW did with the EQ formula.

This doesn't mean these games are destined to fail.  Games that have failed such as WAR and AoC each had fundamental issues that caused their subscribers to bail.  Rift and LotRO were all incredibly polished games at release and have no major issues that have driven away subscribers.  They've lost subscribers, but comparatively speaking, they're both doing fairly well. 

It is very possible that SW:TOR will end up the same way.  It could have a huge number of box sales and subscribers for a few months to around a third of what the subs were at launch.  Of course, this isn't a terrible thing, but it would be a disappointment for those who think or who wish that SW:TOR will be a major success.

  User Deleted
12/08/11 7:39:42 PM#52

If you enjoy themeparks, I don't see any obvious flaws with this game.

  PukeBucket

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/11
Posts: 888

12/08/11 7:42:15 PM#53


Originally posted by Zookz1
If you enjoy themeparks, I don't see any obvious flaws with this game.

This.

I think the end game will be more encompassing than anticipated.
But that said, as long as TOR can get a major content addition on before people burn through three toon's main storylines (sure there will be those few who get all 6 done in month) then they'll be sitting pretty for a themepark MMO.

I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

12/08/11 7:45:11 PM#54
Originally posted by SuperXero89

The fundamental flaw with SW:TOR is going to be the exact same major flaw that plagues Rift and LotRO.  Each of these games seeks to be the alternative to WoW and not THE NEXT WoW.  By that very nature, developers are essentially trying to simply be second best rather than trying to blow the doors wide open like WoW did with the EQ formula.

This doesn't mean these games are destined to fail.  Games that have failed such as WAR and AoC each had fundamental issues that caused their subscribers to bail.  Rift and LotRO were all incredibly polished games at release and have no major issues that have driven away subscribers.  They've lost subscribers, but comparatively speaking, they're both doing fairly well. 

It is very possible that SW:TOR will end up the same way.  It could have a huge number of box sales and subscribers for a few months to around a third of what the subs were at launch.  Of course, this isn't a terrible thing, but it would be a disappointment for those who think or who wish that SW:TOR will be a major success.

I played LoTRO and Rift during beta/early release and they were extremely dull and boring. I had a lot more fun with SWTOR during beta than I ever did in those two other games.

I think SWTOR is going to do better than most people expect.

  Zzad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1285

12/08/11 7:51:18 PM#55

I don´t know how long will SWTOR keep me paying my sub....time will show....

But for now i´ve noticed something no other MMO has achieved with me....leveling was a PLEASURE!

Didn´t even noticed i was leveling! and it was GREAT!

Probably when it comes to the "Raid or Leave" part, i´ll quit ,like in most MMos ,since i´m sick tired of that....

But as long as Bioware gives me a good gameplay/story to play along i´ll be there!

 

  pharazonic

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 900

12/08/11 7:53:06 PM#56

+ Outside of the class specific quests (25% of the game), it plays like a boring SRPG. 

+ Cardboard world

+ Linear, hallway world

"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

I need to take this advice more.

  Xstatic912

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 367

12/08/11 7:53:56 PM#57
Originally posted by SuperXero89

The fundamental flaw with SW:TOR is going to be the exact same major flaw that plagues Rift and LotRO.  Each of these games seeks to be the alternative to WoW and not THE NEXT WoW.  By that very nature, developers are essentially trying to simply be second best rather than trying to blow the doors wide open like WoW did with the EQ formula.

This doesn't mean these games are destined to fail.  Games that have failed such as WAR and AoC each had fundamental issues that caused their subscribers to bail.  Rift and LotRO were all incredibly polished games at release and have no major issues that have driven away subscribers.  They've lost subscribers, but comparatively speaking, they're both doing fairly well. 

It is very possible that SW:TOR will end up the same way.  It could have a huge number of box sales and subscribers for a few months to around a third of what the subs were at launch.  Of course, this isn't a terrible thing, but it would be a disappointment for those who think or who wish that SW:TOR will be a major success.

True, and its hard for dev's making a MMO without the masses comparing there efforts to WoW. Its one thing to want innovation/something new, but when one game single handly has change the face of mmo it hard to compete without being critizied, Oh your not like WOW this or Your not like WoW that. So these dev's i think are taking the best approach and see what worked in WoW and add there spin on it, just in a different setting.

I too fell ToR will start out hot and fade (much slower than past efforts)..

Reason 1) Raids and the "Holy Trinity System",

It works when a game just launches but after 6months on if your not in a guild that does them, your left without getting the best stuff, then the feeling of you can't compete set in. And the constant spamming of looking for healer/tank to do etc runs will become tiresome after awhile.

Reason 2) MMO Market

WoW became so successful because it had time to get there. Now the market is so croowed that for the next 5years at least 2 or more mmo's will be release.

Reason 3) Content

This one kind of baffles me, but it seem no matter how much content a dev's puts in its never enough but then where there more than enough, person say its too much for a grind fest .. **Scratches Head**

  pharazonic

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 900

12/08/11 7:55:41 PM#58
Originally posted by pharazonic

+ Outside of the class specific quests (25% of the game), it plays like a boring SRPG. 

+ Cardboard world

+ Linear, hallway world

 

+ Unattractive to modders

+ Simple, bland combat

+ Awful character creator

"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

I need to take this advice more.

  Papamac

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/08
Posts: 161

12/08/11 7:56:25 PM#59

TOR's major flaw is likely to be the same flaw shared by almost all MMOs currently available.  In other words, will it be able to keep its players' attention.

 

Longevity is the key.  Can the game keep its audience captivated.  If it can, then it will not only hold on to the "early adopters", but it will attract new players simply by word of mouth.

 

That is the secret behind having a successful MMO (WoW, EVE) and having a runner-up-wannabe MMO. (pick one)

 

WoW does it by keeping the hardware requirements friendly, the game mechanics accessible, and the wide-open game world in a constant state of flux.  EVE does it by not doing anything at all; the players do all the work.

 

What we need is a WoW-EVE hybrid to come along.

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 702

12/08/11 8:02:39 PM#60
Originally posted by Ashlinde
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by SethiusX
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by SethiusX

Let me preface this by saying that I think WoW is a great game.

 

I think you should probably just stay playing WoW forever.  You like WoW, and you're now going to compare every single game you play to WoW. If it doesn't have an aspect that WoW does, you won't like it. If it does something different then WoW, you won't like it. You've defined the one game you like, and defined the multiple games you don't like. If you're happy with what you're playing, just keep playing it.

 

It takes a particular type of person to be able to try something new and simply appreciate it for what it has to offer. Most people just can't get over the differences from their first mmo, so they complain about how the new game has got it all wrong.  Those people should never try anything new, it's just beyond their capabilities.

 

My first MMO was Everquest, and that is the one I compare to everything actually (and still play on P99). WoW is a great game, and of course every new themepark I play should have all the polished features of WoW (it is a precedent for themeparks now afterall). But after six years, I need a change, but I need something that is as well done as WoW, with innovation to boot (since it is 6 years later).

That sentence that I highlighted tells me that you would have a difficult time accepting a game, unless it's WoW v2.0

Good luck finding what you are looking for, irregardless.

irregardless is not a word, stop using it.

It is a word.  Please see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

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