Trending Games | EverQuest Next | Guild Wars 2 | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,920,747 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,312,447
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Mirrored Classes

15 Pages First « 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 » Search
287 posts found
  Catbertz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 23

12/01/11 9:08:01 AM#241

So I'm trying to figure out all this trash about how mirrored classes are bad?

now I'm going to do a very bad thing and use WoW an example here... since it is the biggest MMORPG on the market...

IT HAS MIRRORED CLASSES... O M G

Get this... you ready?.... both factions have the same classes!...

but the game is surely garbage right?!... I mean... it only has 11 million subscribers... mirrored classes can't possibly = a good and successful game.

  Ryowulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 672

12/01/11 9:49:54 AM#242

Its funny that peole say balance is important. Okay great a Sith Warrior and a Jedi Knight are balanced. But a Jedi Knight and a Bounty Hunter? Having mirrored classes isn't going to stop the bickering. And it isn't going to stop Bioware from having to 'Balance' classes once it going gold.

What it does do is give players less of a reason to play the flip side of their class. The story isn't everything because you still have to grind levels to reach the next chapter.

 

Although honestly I don't think this will stop tor from selling more boxes than any other mmo when its launched.

  gilgamesh9

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 137

12/01/11 10:33:10 AM#243

Originally posted by Samhael

Yeah, this mirrored class thing is why I think the game is pretty much going to hit the make/break mark around 4 months. That's when a good percentage of folks will have capped a character or two and flipped to the other side. Now if BioWare can be pushing out new content at the speed Trion does, then they may have a chance to withstand the mass exodus.





 


I'm thinking Bioware has a few months of content held back from release.  Much like what they do with their other games... release, then immediately dangle 2-3 DLCs that should have been in the damn game in the first place. They've got a few months of content in reserve to stem the tide, I'm thinking.


If they don't... well, I'll have some popcorn ready.


  DaddyDark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/11
Posts: 138

12/01/11 2:20:25 PM#244

Mirroring classes for both sides is the only way it should be for the sake of balance. I would even name them identical (as well as the abilities) so that people won't have to post stats and builds twice but it would damage the feel of the SW lore differences between the light and dark side (still would fit non force users perfectly well). Furthermore I would decrease the number of classes and abilities, so that they can be balanced better - I expect lots of balancing issues after the launch: how is it devs claim all the healing classes will be equally useful in groups while some of them have heavy armor, while others - light armor only? I would expect to have better healing for the light armored class, since it is penalised already by not being able to use better protection. Still this means that the main healer would always be Sith Sorcerer/Consular because it heals better. Make all classes heal the same and you'll get lots of people being angree, because their Sorcerer has worst protection out of all classes with no visible advantage. :-) The only balance-wise thing would be to have 2-3 classes, which you absolutely can't do without in any situation (including PvP) - like Tank, Healer and Protector - making the last one usefull by limiting amount of healing possible per second  (and to give DPS abilities to all classes).


  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

12/01/11 2:54:44 PM#245

Originally posted by tank017


Originally posted by Robsolf



Originally posted by tank017



Originally posted by Robsolf

I'd bet:  ONLY if they keep beating you.



not really.


 



Jerry, is that you?  Sorry dude... Eddy Gordo can only do so much... even against Bryan Fury



yeah...


 


you stick with those tekken references,Im going else where.



 




Rob,


No offense, but you seem kinda out of bounds here. Are you really trying to tell other people what THEY should/should not find boring?


For the record, outside of e-sports style games (which is basicaly what Tekken is).... I find mirrored classes pretty darn boring.


Even in one on one contests.... I don't mind losing every single time if the fight is at least interesting and challenging.


Maybe it's just the old school wargamer in me.....but playing an MMO where the sides have to be mirrored for the sake of balance is like playing a WWII game where they give the Sherman the same stat's as the Tiger in order to "balance" out the sides.... it's just plain lame, not fun for me and not something I want to play.


I'm happy rolling around in my Sherman, even if I can barely ding the front armor of the Tiger.....because I know the Tiger has to worry about fuel shortages and the P-47's flying overhead..... I don't.... and I'm still damn usefull at engaging that dug-in enemy HMG so my infantry can advance. That to me makes for interesting combat....figuring out how to take advantage of the differences between yourself and the opposition....and what particular role you can play in that.


  Atticus81

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/11
Posts: 1

12/02/11 9:29:56 AM#246
Are people complaining because classes being mirrored balances PVP or because it lacks replays Lilith with alts? Seriously this is the most ludicrous argument I have seen and I visit the SWTOR forums often. Sure when you level up your 9th alt you will have some duplication but honestly with 4 classes per side, 8 advanced classes which all play vastly different to each other and individual storied per class what more could you want? Actually I should probably ask, what other game has done it better? WOW has 10 classes now but for a long time only had 8per side and most of the quests are shared and instances are the same. LOTRO only has the 1 faction for PVE and creeps are deliberately underpowered. People like to spout dribble without actually thinking before they speak.

If you hate the game, then hate it, but do so on the merits of the game, not trying to compare it to some idea you have in your head of what gaming should be or what other games have promised but are yet to deliver on.
  TKDAAH

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/10
Posts: 13

12/02/11 8:22:09 PM#247

I don't see the problem here. The classes are identical in a way sure, I mean the Sith are just traitors of the Republic, of course they have the same ideas and weapons. But doesn't every MMORPG basically have the same classes on each side? The regular old Mage, Warrior, Priest, etc. They don't have special stories to the class, they have the exact same abilities. 


I think you guys are being picky on this just to be picky. I played Jedi Consular and then the Sith Inquisitor. Consular throws things underneath the ground, Inquisitor has the lightning ability. How is that the same? I agreed with most of the points made in the 5 worst things about SWTOR, but this is a poor argument, it isn't even true.


The cake is still a lie.

  Angelfire

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/04
Posts: 146

12/02/11 10:16:31 PM#248

This thread confuses me to be honest, as alot of whats said in it makes me think the people talking didn't play the classes very much .. certainly not far into the teens... classes are similar across factions, yes... but calling them mirrored because the style in which you play them is alike is stupid. Thats like saying a WOW paladin and warrior are mirrored because they are both tanks right? Let me explain using the examples of Bounty Hunter and Trooper... (the skills listed before are aquired at the same level for each given class..)

 

Bounty Hunters get as thier early skills ..  (taken from http://swtorlevelguide.com/swtor-bounty-hunter-skills-guide/ as a source..)

 

           

Electro dart

  • Fires an electro dart out of your bracer at the target that causes them to be overloaded with electricity and stunned for 5 seconds.

Rail Shot

  • Fires a shot at the target that deals heavy damage. Only works against vulnerable (stunned, sleeping, burning) target.

Death From Above

  • Bounty Hunter flies to a safe distance and lobs missiles. All targets in the area take damage. The first rocket knocks all targets to the ground.
Republic Trooper get as thier earliest trainable skills..  (source: http://trooperguide.com/trooper-abilities/)
 

Full Auto

  • Fires a continuous stream of bolts that deal heavy damage for up to 6 seconds. A weaker foe caught in the blaster fire is stunned for the duration.

Sticky Grenade

  • Fire a sticky grenade that will detonate after several seconds and cause the target to enter a state of panic. The explosion deals very high damage to the primary target and moderate damage to nearby enemies. All targets are knocked back from the blunt.

Incendiary Round

  • Launches an incendiary projectile, setting the target ablaze for moderate damage over 5 seconds, with a chance to burn additional nearby targets.
 
Are these abilities identical? No ... not even close. Are they similar? Ermm theres passing simularity to Full Auto and Electro Dart, but to say they are copies or even used in the same way? Hardly. Now is that to say at some point RT might get a skill similar to Rail shot.. sure... because most ranged DPS classes are going to have a power hit. But they get it at a different point in the game which will effect how the character feels..
 
Now lets compare the two classes ACs...
 
Bounty Hunter -

Powertech

  • Flamethrower
  • Defense / Energy Shields
  • Tank

Mercenary

  • Dual Wield Guns
  • Missiles
  • Ranged DPS
Republic Trooper -
 
Commando
  • Heavy Blaster Cannon
  • Grenades
  • Ranged DPS
  • Ranged Healing
Vanguard
  • Blaster Rifle
  • Energy Shields and Defense
  • Tank
 
Do they fullfill similar purposes across factions? Yep. Identical "mirrored" .. again.. nope.. not really. They use different weapons and equipment and achieve thier given rolls differently then thier opposing side. Okay yes, Commando and Powertech both use energy shields, and that would be oooh mirrored except that energy shields are the basic offhand armor item in the game. That would be like complaining in a fantasy setting that these five classes all use shields, they must be mirrored!
 
I could do this for the rest of the class match ups but a bit of simple research for yourself will show you.. yes.. classes are similar .. but they arn't identical .. skills are different, gear is different, and those two things will effect to a degree.. granted small .. how the classes play differently.. so can someone explain to me again how the word mirrored properly even applies?
   
   
   
 
  Illyssia

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/09
Posts: 1525

12/03/11 6:57:12 AM#249
Originally posted by Dayzon

So you can only play 8 unique characters instead of 16.  Well......if leveling alts is all there is to the game I'de say that is a bigger issue than mirrored classes.  By the way, the classes in pvp will be balanced, not the players.

For PvP class balance is an absolute must in any MMORPG. Look at WAR, completely unbalanced RvR and Mythic lose much of their player base in a matter of months. Bioware has learn't from this and really mirrored classes just means that both factions will be competitive. For PvE play the classes don't have mirrored story arcs so not a problem. SWTOR isn't a hardcore rules PvP game anyway, their isn't an extreme death penalty or full looting of corpses, so really Bioware have taken the sensible route.

  Kaerigan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/06
Posts: 713

12/03/11 7:26:32 AM#250
Originally posted by Angelfire

This thread confuses me to be honest, as alot of whats said in it makes me think the people talking didn't play the classes very much .. certainly not far into the teens... classes are similar across factions, yes... but calling them mirrored because the style in which you play them is alike is stupid. Thats like saying a WOW paladin and warrior are mirrored because they are both tanks right? Let me explain using the examples of Bounty Hunter and Trooper... (the skills listed before are aquired at the same level for each given class..)

 

Bounty Hunters get as thier early skills ..  (taken from http://swtorlevelguide.com/swtor-bounty-hunter-skills-guide/ as a source..)

 

           

Electro dart

  • Fires an electro dart out of your bracer at the target that causes them to be overloaded with electricity and stunned for 5 seconds.

Rail Shot

  • Fires a shot at the target that deals heavy damage. Only works against vulnerable (stunned, sleeping, burning) target.

Death From Above

  • Bounty Hunter flies to a safe distance and lobs missiles. All targets in the area take damage. The first rocket knocks all targets to the ground.
Republic Trooper get as thier earliest trainable skills..  (source: http://trooperguide.com/trooper-abilities/)
 

Full Auto

  • Fires a continuous stream of bolts that deal heavy damage for up to 6 seconds. A weaker foe caught in the blaster fire is stunned for the duration.

Sticky Grenade

  • Fire a sticky grenade that will detonate after several seconds and cause the target to enter a state of panic. The explosion deals very high damage to the primary target and moderate damage to nearby enemies. All targets are knocked back from the blunt.

Incendiary Round

  • Launches an incendiary projectile, setting the target ablaze for moderate damage over 5 seconds, with a chance to burn additional nearby targets.
 
Are these abilities identical? No ... not even close. Are they similar? Ermm theres passing simularity to Full Auto and Electro Dart, but to say they are copies or even used in the same way? Hardly. Now is that to say at some point RT might get a skill similar to Rail shot.. sure... because most ranged DPS classes are going to have a power hit. But they get it at a different point in the game which will effect how the character feels..
 
Now lets compare the two classes ACs...
 
Bounty Hunter -

Powertech

  • Flamethrower
  • Defense / Energy Shields
  • Tank

Mercenary

  • Dual Wield Guns
  • Missiles
  • Ranged DPS
Republic Trooper -
 
Commando
  • Heavy Blaster Cannon
  • Grenades
  • Ranged DPS
  • Ranged Healing
Vanguard
  • Blaster Rifle
  • Energy Shields and Defense
  • Tank
 
Do they fullfill similar purposes across factions? Yep. Identical "mirrored" .. again.. nope.. not really. They use different weapons and equipment and achieve thier given rolls differently then thier opposing side. Okay yes, Commando and Powertech both use energy shields, and that would be oooh mirrored except that energy shields are the basic offhand armor item in the game. That would be like complaining in a fantasy setting that these five classes all use shields, they must be mirrored!
 
I could do this for the rest of the class match ups but a bit of simple research for yourself will show you.. yes.. classes are similar .. but they arn't identical .. skills are different, gear is different, and those two things will effect to a degree.. granted small .. how the classes play differently.. so can someone explain to me again how the word mirrored properly even applies?
   
   
   
 

Of course they're gonna be different if you're not comparing the actual mirrored skills. Full Auto is not Electro Dart's mirror. Cryo Grenade is. "Hurls a cryo grenade, freezing the target for X seconds." Learned at level 12, which is the same level the BH learns Electro Dart.

Rail Shot's mirror is High Impact Bolt. Learned at the same level as Rail Shot.

Death From Above - Mortar Volley. Also learned at the same level.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  Luriker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1

12/03/11 7:57:36 PM#251

Originally posted by OgreRaper

As I had just talked about in another thread... mirrored classes and all races the same (no racial skills), is unacceptable to me. I won't buy an MMO that takes such a bland an uninteresting approach to game design.




Claiming it's done in the name of balance is a cop-out and means the devs are just lazy.


The game is launching with 8 unique Advanced Classes, and 8 unique class stories, and you're claiming that without 16 unique Advanced classes it's lazy?  I'm glad one more unreasonable player won't be on my server.


 


 


  DarthVious

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 40

"Caedite eos. Novit enim Imperator qui sunt eius!" -Darth Vious

12/06/11 1:27:53 AM#252

This is such BS. All of you crying that you want variety vs. balanced play, are lieing out of your rear ends. If a game like WoW decided to throw out balanced play and added 20+ classes people would be storming down the doors at Blizzard Entertainment.  You dang well know it.

 

Or I guess maybe playing a game like that for so long as ruined your taste for balanced play. I suggest taking a stab at MW3 or perhaps APB or a plethora of other games that offer crap balancing.

 

Darth Vious

-Dextera Imperium-
http://dexteraimperium.com

  Yellowbeardd

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/07
Posts: 83

12/06/11 2:18:44 AM#253

That is where they screwed up they should of had instead of BH and Trooper same they should of put a Imperial trooper on sith side with same skills and it would of been more logical that way to see oh ya same kind of fighter ofcourse they would have the same set of skills But i guess they never thought about that idea .


yellowbeardd Xfire Miniprofile
  Majeure

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 2

12/06/11 2:19:48 AM#254

For example, take the below analogy between SWTOR ACs and another popular MMO's Classes


Guardian/Juggernaut = Tank/DPS aka Warrior


Sentinel/Marauder = Heals/DPS aka Paladin* **


Sage/Sorcerer = Heals/DPS aka Shaman**


Shadow/Assassin = Tank/DPS aka Druid*


Commando/Mercenary = Heals/DPS aka Priest


Vanguard/Powertech = Tank/DPS aka Warlock*


Gunslinger/Sniper = DPS aka Hunter


Scoundrel/Operative = Heals/DPS aka Rogue*


Those are not the equivalent classes to each, though each can fill the rolls provided aside from the * with a little variance (ie Paladins can also tank where Rogues cannot heal). ** Designates faction locked at launch.


Point is there are essentially 8 classes that you can play no matter if you want to be republic or empire, just like some other popular MMO. If you called the Guardian and Jugernaut Warrior instead of their unique names, would you be complaining that each side gets to play as a warrior?


What if we did the reverse:


Warrior could be: Soldier for one faction, Grunt for the other.


Mage could be: Spellweaver for one faction, Magician for the other.


Priest could be: Monk for one faction, Abbot for the other.


Warlock could be: Conjurer for one faction, Theurgist for the other.


Hunter could be: Stalker for one faction, Trapper for the other.


Rogue could be: Swindler for one faction, Trickster for the other.


Shaman could be: Earthwalker for one faction, Guru for the other.


Paladin could be: Preserver for one faction, Overseer for the other.


Death Knight could be: Nightblade for one faction, Witchhunter for the other.


!!! Oh no! I just exposed an MMO for having mirrored classes! Oh wait...


Using a different upcoming MMO for naming examples now, lets turn:


 


Guardian/Juggernaut into Guardian


Sentinel/Marauder into Warrior


Sage/Sorcerer into Elementalist


Shadow/Assassin into Thief


Commando/Mercenary into Ranger


Vanguard/Powertech into Engineer


Gunslinger/Sniper into Necromancer


Scoundrel/Operative into Mesmer


I'm seeing a pattern here....


tl;dr version: Same amount of classes, 2x the animation and art. = Total win.


rgfkylekatarn Xfire Miniprofile
  zaylin

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/06
Posts: 793

12/06/11 3:01:36 AM#255

Really! who give a krap if they are mirrored. Like a lot of people are saying EVEN though they are mirrored it still adds up to 8 classes witch is about standard these days (+/- 1 or 2). 8 FULL storylines. 2 seperate animations for each mirror class. Flavor. Oh ya full voice over for EACH Class. And some of you are calling the devs lazy. I think you should spend some time in their shoes first. And again how many times have we ALL seen/talked about the PvErs VS the PvPrs (even though Swtor is not mainly PvP,but they DO have PvP servers for a reason) and balance.

Balance ability  1 for PvE.ahh shit that just F'd that class in PvP...rebalance..ahh damn now The PvE is unbalanced again. Lol people need to stop picking apart games like they are 6 years old at the dinner table (just a general analogy not trying to tick any one off). Games are meant to be FUN.

  DaddyDark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/11
Posts: 138

12/06/11 7:19:24 AM#256

Originally posted by Illyssia

For PvP class balance is an absolute must in any MMORPG. Look at WAR, completely unbalanced RvR and Mythic lose much of their player base in a matter of months.


...


SWTOR isn't a hardcore rules PvP game anyway, their isn't an extreme death penalty or full looting of corpses, so really Bioware have taken the sensible route.



 


1) Obviously - you haven't played WAR, since it have one of the best balanced PvP systems I have ever played and WAR classes ARE mirrored. The problem with WAR was with the server/faction populations skewed towards the "dark" factions, so the open PvP would be off-balanced (though battlegrounds in WAR are perfect IMHO) and I expect absolutely the same problem with TOR as the Dark Side is just so cool :-) , though in TOR there is no focus on RvR, so you would mostly do battlegrounds and the problem of dark side overpopulation should be limited to the increased battlegrounds' waiting times for the dark side. The only real option to avoid factions being disbalanced is to allow PvP conflicts within factions (e.g. Sith clans battling for power).


2) The most  hardcore PvP games have nothing to do with perma-death and corpse looting. MMO PvP rules mirror the group multiplayer rules set by the 3d-shooter genre (mostly influenced by Team Fortress - it was the first game to introduce classes into large scale team multiplayer). And it is the only way hardcore PvP game should be, since perma-death and corpse looting increase the advatage of the winner over time so the oldest players would be winning more often with disregard to their skill - on the contrary hardcore PvP games would promote skill of the player over anything else and would avoid giving significant advantages to players over time. This is the reason why I can't consider WoW a hardcore PvP game (gear plays a large role in PvP stats and therefore puts new playaers at a  severe disadvantage) and this is why  TOR wants to limit the PvP bonuses to 10% of the total player power.


  thekid1

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 774

12/06/11 7:37:43 AM#257

I'm confused.


So a Trooper's rifle has the same range as the Bounty Hunter's flame thrower?


What happens if an enemy is just out side flamethrower range, can the rifle not hit it?


Does the laser animation stop at that point?


  chanicthau

Novice Member

Joined: 1/16/06
Posts: 9

Owls are not always what they seem to be.

12/06/11 8:22:59 AM#258

Keep this in mind guys. NO ONE LIKES TO LOSE... not even when they mutter that "good game" at the end. They are actualy cursing your guts. Sure, when you play the OP class, it's fun. It's more than fun ... you are a god out there. But for every easy kill you do a player breaks his keyboard and mouse in 2 with his fists. Unballanced classes means a TON of frustrated players that eventually leave the game.


I participated in the beta and i personally thought the game was AWESOME! The cutscenes and voiceacting are a VERY nice touch since everyone thinks on how to save space nowadays in mmos, and i found the story to be very very captivating and the world completely immersive. After all, as so many others allready said, it's a RPG before being a MMO. The RPG part is the important one and thy got things covered VERY good.


Cheers and see you ingame. I'll be the Sith Marauder ganking your force insensitive azz :D


Chani's Rants - http://chanichtau.wordpress.com

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3583

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

12/06/11 10:10:30 AM#259

As long as games insist on mixing PvP with their PvE, the eternal search for 'balance" is going to consume endless amounts of Dev time and talent.  The only real approach that doesn't waste all of those limited resources is to keep PvE and PvP *completely* separate.  Better still, just leave one or the other to some other game. I'd really LOVE to play a PvE game that doesn't feel like it has to split itself into those two aspects.  Even games with a PvE server option have this problem. 

Let one class or another have a little more utility or a few dps higher, and the howls can be heard echoing around the forum world.  "Class X is OP!!! Nerf Class X!!!"... Thats how we end up with the never ending FOTM builds, as the nerf/buff cycle spins endlessly. In the process consuming large amounts of Dev time and talent. On the extreme end, one ends up with the Ghostcrawler Syndrome (WAY too much focus on spread sheets and data mining, and not on what makes a class, or game FUN to play). 

That is one of the reasons that mirrored classes exist.  But its a reaction to a problem that is more a lack of focus, and an attempt to appeal to a wider demographic (and hence be more profitable...) that lies at the root of the problem. 

  Papechulo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 2

12/06/11 10:58:57 AM#260
I love how no one has pointed out that one of the most successful MMOs (WoW) has, quite literally, the exact same classes on each side. You have a Warrior, on either side, and you can get the exact same weapons, armor, etc. that a Warrior on the opposing faction can get.

That being said, classes are only mirrored if you have 2 players who play with the exact same style. I plan on playing the Smuggler first, and I would be willing to bet that no one will play the Agent the same way I play the Smuggler. I will even go as far to say that no one will play a Smuggler as I do.

When it comes down to it, its about the player making his characters mirrored. If you played the Trooper, and want to play the Bounty Hunter, why not switch up your style a little? "Because the player shouldn't have to to get a new experience!" Then that's you being LAZY while playing a VIDEO GAME.
15 Pages First « 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 » Search