Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by AdamTM

If this is "fully customizable":

then I'll eat a horse (preferably DarkPony)

The alien companions only have limited customization features, like gear and color.  The humanoid companions have full customization features.  You can make them look completely different from their default look.   

Do you mean I can choose different hairstyles and colors?

Because thats not what i understand under "fully customizable". Granted I understand I wont be necessarily be able to change their gender or race, but come-one skin-color tones and a hair-do?

Bodytype would already do wonders.... it doesn't need to be boob-sliders but some variation at least past the exact same face with a different wig.

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

 

It's implemented, you just didn't utilize the vendor that allows you to do it.  The Companion Customization vendor allows you to pick one of 7 looks for your companion based on the kit you buy.  Body type and face stays the same, I believe, but you can choose a different hair style and skin color with these kits.  Doesn't sound like much, but it does make quite a bit of difference in how they look. For example, Mako went from a darker colored girl with short hair to a blonde, light-skinned girl when I changed her look.  Only problem is the Companion Kits are way overpriced...12,500 credits per kit.  

Ok, I see.  Wish I'd known about that vendor, so I could check it out for myself.  7 choices is much better than 3, at least - especially if the quest reward is on top of that, making it 10 different choices.. "Full customization" still sounds misleading to me, but as far as limited customization goes, that does sound much better.

Yes, but only because SPG fans can be pleased... If I headed a studio there's no way in hell I'd make an MMO. As much as I love the genre, the fans are just too picky and too quick to find fault, it's like that's all they focus on or look for, "how can I tear this game down"...

(clarification) this goes for all MMO's not just TOR.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by dubyahite
I don't see how my arguments are bad. I have provided a very clear definition of a persistent world required for an mmo. Noone is debating that definition (yet) and I have shown how this applies to TOR repeatedly.

The world stays there when you log off.
Players affect the world.
Gameplay events continue in the world while I am not there.


That's all there is to it. If anyone can disprove that I'd love to see it. So far all i have seen is insults and questions. Not one single person has offered any kind of evidence that disproved what I have said.

Nobody disagrees with your definition -IF- and only -IF- you are able to consistently apply it to -everything- other than TOR.

If you can't, you just made up a definition (and examples) in your head for one very specific game to make it fit.

 

And we are questioning that your examples can be applied to other games that have persistant world features, yet we do not call them "persistant worlds" (GW, Diablo 3, Team Fortress, Stellar Impact etc was named)

What you have to do is show us a distinguishing feature that would make those games -not- persistant, but TOR persistant.

Or you would need to agree that those games feature, by your definition, a persistant world.

Its a binary choice, there is no neutral option.

 

Burden of proof lies on you as you made the claim that TOR is persistant, nobody needs to disporve anything.

Ball's in your court.

Yeah yeah, I drug this up from 3 pages ago, but I've been sleeping. 

Those examples I gave were asked for by someone. They weren't examples of a persistent world, they were examples of how you affect the world in TOR.

I didn't "make up" my definition, I got it from wikipedia and the definition of the world persistent. 

I have already responded to this idea of yours that D3 and GW 1 are persistent worlds. They aren't because the world doesn't remain there when you log off. They are instanced lobby games. If I host a Diablo game and log off, the game world goes away. POOF. Gone.  If I go out of the city in GW and then log off that world goes away. POOF. Gone.

These games aren't MMO's simply because of the fact that you can change the world. You change the world in every game. Again, that was me providing an example of how you could change the world in TOR, because someone else asked for examples. 

If I log off of SWTOR, the game remains. The only things that don't remain persistently are the Warzones, Flashpoints, and Operations. Instances that make up a small percentage of the game world. 

I am not making up examples or a definition specific to TOR. I'm not making up anything actually.  This is the way these games are. If you can't see that then you can't be helped. There are MANY themepark MMO's that fit that same definition of a persistent world: Wow, aion, war, aoc, EQ, Lotro, rift, champions, dcuo, both final fantasy games, etc....

All of those games fit the persistent world definition that I have provided. All of them share a similar client/server world to TOR. 

If you are saying that TOR doesn't have a persistent world, then none of these games have it. Every themepark MMO ever made could no longer be considered an MMO. That's just silly. Are you really going to claim that? 

If you can't see the difference between Diablo 3, GW 1, or any corpg and a game with a persistent world like TOR on your own without having someone explain it to you, then your opinions have seriously just lost all credibility to me. 

the 3d title is "would it be BETTER as offline game"

but the poll question is "would it be just as good?", so how do i answer if i believe it would have been better and that no, it's not "as good" because i believe the game is infact not good?

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

 

It's implemented, you just didn't utilize the vendor that allows you to do it.  The Companion Customization vendor allows you to pick one of 7 looks for your companion based on the kit you buy.  Body type and face stays the same, I believe, but you can choose a different hair style and skin color with these kits.  Doesn't sound like much, but it does make quite a bit of difference in how they look. For example, Mako went from a darker colored girl with short hair to a blonde, light-skinned girl when I changed her look.  Only problem is the Companion Kits are way overpriced...12,500 credits per kit.  

 

Ok, I see.  Wish I'd known about that vendor, so I could check it out for myself.  7 choices is much better than 3, at least - especially if the quest reward is on top of that, making it 10 different choices.. "Full customization" still sounds misleading to me, but as far as limited customization goes, that does sound much better.

 

Also if you look at the last patch notes you see that other people will be only running with "companion" while you will be running with Mako for example. So after people customize their companion and it's just a "companion" you wont be seeing everyone running with "your" companion especially when people will choose their favourite companion out of seven choises and then customize it on top of that. It might look like everyone is running with the same companion at the very beginning but the variation comes quickly after the first few days into the game.

Ofcourse at the base it will be the "same" companion but it does not have the name and it does not look like your companion. If you expect the game to have tons of options then that's just unrealistic for any game imo when the game has the size as TOR, eventually people will realize the size and everyone can ask them selves if they want two hundred different companion options for each of the 23 companions in the game or if they want single zones bigger than the whole world of Rift for example.

Originally posted by page

I played the bata for SWTOR. I liked many features, even the voice acting if it were a solo game, loved the classes, companion's, having your own ship. I'm not a big Star wars fan, but I like the game, but not as an mmo.

Would you like it as much as a stand alone off-line game.

I will let you into a little secret , you have a choice in this game and if you wish just play the storylines.....

But by doing that you will miss vast opportunity and lots of fun, but the fantastic developers have given people options.

A bit of a pointless post as the game delivers solo , multiplayer and a lot more....

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by AdamTM

If this is "fully customizable":

then I'll eat a horse (preferably DarkPony)

The alien companions only have limited customization features, like gear and color.  The humanoid companions have full customization features.  You can make them look completely different from their default look.   

Do you mean I can choose different hairstyles and colors?

Because thats not what i understand under "fully customizable". Granted I understand I wont be necessarily be able to change their gender or race, but come-one skin-color tones and a hair-do?

Bodytype would already do wonders.... it doesn't need to be boob-sliders but some variation at least past the exact same face with a different wig.

So, in other words, the only thing it's missing is body type changes?  Because, other than face, hair type, and hair color, you really don't have many optimizations settings to begin with for companions, or characters, even.  There are only 4 body types in this game, so your inability to make a fat body type from a skinny one is the reason you wouldn't call this full customization.  Sounds pretty nit-picky to me.  This game doesn't give you a lot of character customization options either, but by looking at the Mako pictures up there, it seems pretty varied as far as companions go.  This is like complaining that Rift doesn't allow you enough variety in the pets available to them.  At least here you can change them to look completely different than their default, despite not being able to change every little thing about them.  Not sure what more you could want.  

The cut scenes in this game are one of its best features.  But it's also the feature that really handcuffs them in terms of customization, because they can't get too varied with their looks or they have to go back and add all those different looks into each and every cut scene.  We're all going to have to accept that and move on to other complaints.  For what it is, this is more than enough customization given the restraints imposed by the cut scenes.  The only thing I would prefer is to be able to change the names of the companions, but even that becomes difficult due to them being called by them in the cinematic sequences.  

I'd love it as a single-player RPG because to be honest, I don't like MMO's so much, mostly because of their communities.

one or two builds back I soloed a char to lvl 45 not grouping to see if my toon sufffered. It didn't

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

So, in other words, the only thing it's missing is body type changes?  Because, other than face, hair type, and hair color, you really don't have many optimizations settings to begin with for companions, or characters, even.  There are only 4 body types in this game, so your inability to make a fat body type from a skinny one is the reason you wouldn't call this full customization.  Sounds pretty nit-picky to me.  This game doesn't give you a lot of character customization options either, but by looking at the Mako pictures up there, it seems pretty varied as far as companions go.  This is like complaining that Rift doesn't allow you enough variety in the pets available to them.  At least here you can change them to look completely different than their default, despite not being able to change every little thing about them.  Not sure what more you could want.  

The cut scenes in this game are one of its best features.  But it's also the feature that really handcuffs them in terms of customization, because they can't get too varied with their looks or they have to go back and add all those different looks into each and every cut scene.  We're all going to have to accept that and move on to other complaints.  For what it is, this is more than enough customization given the restraints imposed by the cut scenes.  The only thing I would prefer is to be able to change the names of the companions, but even that becomes difficult due to them being called by them in the cinematic sequences.  

Let's be fair here.  Can you have an asian with blonde hair?  Red hair and blue eyes?  Red haired cyborg?  No and no to a bunch of other stuff.  At least, that's as best as I understand it.

There are appearance kits, but those are limited in number and don't cover everything by a long shot.  In a game where you can run into hundreds of other players very easily, I think wanting more customization than that makes a lot of sense.  At least having hundreds of options would be easy and a lot better than just a handful or two.