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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR impression from a game developer

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109 posts found
  Biggus99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 964

11/30/11 12:13:15 PM#81
Originally posted by mrxennon
Originally posted by Guileplayer

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=688333

It wasn't written by me. I just saw this on the TOR forums and i thought i share it with MMORPG.

Not really convinced thats a developer, maybe the tea boy, but his grammar and use of words come across as very unprofessional for me to make the former statement.

Yeah, although I thought his post was great, I tend to doubt he is a developer for the same reason that a lot of people in that thread said:  He didn't give any actual indication through his review that he knows the jargon, he simply talked about how smooth the game ran compared to other releases.  However, later in the thread he does give his full background on his career and he did promise that today he'll write a full, comprehensive review of the game, which should hopefully give us some idea if he is who he says he is.  I'm skeptical, but I'll be looking out for his review today just the same.  

  EvilGeek

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 1240

My freedom relies on yours

11/30/11 12:18:25 PM#82


Originally posted by stealthbr


Originally posted by EvilGeek
 

I agree with the story being dynamic but the questing rarely was, I can only recall one choice that had a significant impact on the following quest, that was in a flashpoint, the rest just gave you story options that would lead to the same next step regardless, I guess that one example is enough for the op to use the word dynamic, I'll gracefully stand corrected :)
 


Um... maybe you didn't pay close attention. For instance, in Hutta there is a quest where you had the option of either killing a boy's father and sending the boy to become a Sith or you simply lie to his mother. There's also a quest where you can either assassinate a rebel leader and take his head to your boss or trick your boss by presenting a random decapitated head. There's a quest where you either morally confront a "poacher" or you just kill him. There's a quest where you either rescue a boy from a gang or you let him die. Indeed, just in the starter planets there are several instances where you are confronted with difficult choices that do change the outcome of the story. As you have stated, Flashpoints work the same way.


Didn't play Hutta so nope but yes plenty of those types of things but how does not killing them effect quest progression? I didn't play the same content twice to find out but my understanding is that the next step in your class quest line and content remains the same you've just changed how the current story ends, please correct me if I'm wrong? In a very linear, heavily story based world like SWTOR it would be pretty resource heavy to create branching story arcs that lead to different content, if they have managed that and I just missed it hats off to them!


  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1059

11/30/11 12:21:37 PM#83
Originally posted by EvilGeek

Didn't play Hutta so nope but yes plenty of those types of things but how does not killing them effect quest progression? I didn't play the same content twice to find out but my understanding is that the next step in your class quest line and content remains the same you've just changed how the current story ends, please correct me if I'm wrong? In a very linear, heavily story based world like SWTOR it would be pretty resource heavy to create branching story arcs that lead to different content, if they have managed that and I just missed it hats off to them!

Strictly speaking in those terms, the decision to kill him or not will provide you with a different quest. Meaning, if you kill him, you will get quest A later on, and if you don't, you will get quest B later on. However, the rewards will be the same, so you don't have to worry about doing things that will gimp you. Though, I do not believe it will lead to completely different storylines.

  dj525

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 47

11/30/11 12:27:09 PM#84
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Everything about the game is OPINION, and people treating it as FACT look silly bro :). Just saying that for my ENTIRE group of 40+ people we're dropping SWTOR. To "US", it's a linear generic WoW-Clone with "voice over" questing that gets boring & skipped with spacebar after the first 2hours. The game has no replability for your character, and offers only different stories for different primary classes choses (meaning maybe 4 storyline to do from start to finish?). Game won't last more than 3months unless they dump 10s of millions into quest development & content developement each MONTH alone.

 

 

:)

 

10's of millions a month? That's a team 3000-4000 devs and full time voice actors, you honestly think they need around 3500 people to push some content patches / extras out? Lol.

No they will just use the same cheap crap that they are using now. LOL lol lol man I feel so COOOOL.

  EvilGeek

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 1240

My freedom relies on yours

11/30/11 12:30:17 PM#85


Originally posted by stealthbr


Originally posted by EvilGeek
Didn't play Hutta so nope but yes plenty of those types of things but how does not killing them effect quest progression? I didn't play the same content twice to find out but my understanding is that the next step in your class quest line and content remains the same you've just changed how the current story ends, please correct me if I'm wrong? In a very linear, heavily story based world like SWTOR it would be pretty resource heavy to create branching story arcs that lead to different content, if they have managed that and I just missed it hats off to them!


Strictly speaking in those terms, the decision to kill him or not will provide you with a different quest. Meaning, if you kill him, you will get quest A later on, and if you don't, you will get quest B later on. However, the rewards will be the same, so you don't have to worry about doing things that will gimp you. Though, I do not believe it will lead to completely different storylines.


Thanks, good to know it's there more than I experienced it.


  User Deleted
11/30/11 12:35:35 PM#86
Originally posted by Biggus99
Originally posted by mrxennon
Originally posted by Guileplayer

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=688333

It wasn't written by me. I just saw this on the TOR forums and i thought i share it with MMORPG.

Not really convinced thats a developer, maybe the tea boy, but his grammar and use of words come across as very unprofessional for me to make the former statement.

Yeah, although I thought his post was great, I tend to doubt he is a developer for the same reason that a lot of people in that thread said:  He didn't give any actual indication through his review that he knows the jargon, he simply talked about how smooth the game ran compared to other releases.  However, later in the thread he does give his full background on his career and he did promise that today he'll write a full, comprehensive review of the game, which should hopefully give us some idea if he is who he says he is.  I'm skeptical, but I'll be looking out for his review today just the same.  

 

I call it the "my opinion matters because..." syndrome.

 

Normally its because someone has played MMO's since 1996.. has 30+ titles under their belt yet can't master simple game mechanics that existed in almost all 30 of those.

 

Or its the "I'm in game development but I can't tell you about it just believe me" approach. 

 

I wouldn't have an issue with it but in the first post this person has little comprehension of reality (game or design wise)...  (my opinion) let alone the perspective of someone in game development.   If you played the games the person mentioned you have your personal experience that likely (my guess becuase I played them) doesn't exactly mesh with what they said.   You had some issues but not exactly what they are talking about... in other words repeating what you heard about a game can bite you in the backside when you try to represent it as fact but have no personal knowledge of it...

 

If they were in game development it would be the one guy who posted on the Vanguard forums when it was in beta... no background no qualification... just went in applied and got hired.   I used to actually have a quote from them saved because it was likely one of the absolute dumbest things I'd ever seen posted on a forum.   The name even sounds like one of the ones from Vanguard beta...

 

I doubt its that "guy" because its not obnoxious or stupid enough...   If you knew my real life name which isn't very common.. you could google it and come up with some game/MMO refrences.. hell you can look in the back of the original wow pamphlet in the credits section and see my pretty unique name...

 

Let's just pretend I did actually do quest design (well I did event content in UO but I was never a paid employee of EA.. but ya I did do official content lol..) but I'm not sure that makes me a game developer... in fact even if I am a game developer that makes a game good or bad cuz I say so ?

 

I mean seriously if a very well known game developer comes in here and tells you that a game you hate was the best game ever...  you suddenly agree?   That's why I personally try to never bring up any qualifiation for my thoughts.. beyond the fact they are my opinion.   In subjective material (games) I don't care what your background is... it doesn't make your opinion a fact.   Unless you only talk about objective things that are not open to subjective experience..

 

I apologize for any typos etc this laptop keyboard absolutely hates me.

 

*edited to add*

 

Actually what this does remind me of is a few weeks maybe even a month ago we had a similar post in the general testing forum.   The guy claimed to be a professional tester... which I thought was odd because in my experience in house testing is done by Q&A and the actual tester positions are usually "entry level" jobs...  and this guy said he'd been a tester about that long.. becuase he started well it would have been when EQ1 was pretty fresh and there were hardly any MMO companies .... let alone 3rd party companies being hired to do "in house" testing.  If you've been in an entry level job for 13 years.. it might be a sign..

 

That's who it reminds me of.

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1059

11/30/11 12:39:24 PM#87

"Our Jedi class stories are some of the most popular in testing and they have an amazing diversity both between them and inside each story for light and dark side approaches. These choices affect companions, story lines and even what titles you can gain and what position you'll eventually hold in the Jedi Order."

  nomss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/21/10
Posts: 1488

11/30/11 12:48:33 PM#88

This is so stupid. The guy says TOR is a WoW killer. Mad dumb that sounded.

Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1

  User Deleted
11/30/11 12:52:57 PM#89
Originally posted by holifeet
Originally posted by wormywyrm

I'm not surprised when someone who enjoys WoW also enjoys SWTOR, that is 100% expected.  That does not make it a good game and if anything it makes it less worth my time.

He said he worked on WoW. He never stated his favourites, and actually even criticised WoW for its failures.

And ofc everything that everyone writes on the net is true, niave or what.

 

 

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17111

11/30/11 1:05:33 PM#90
Originally posted by Antarious

 

I call it the "my opinion matters because..." syndrome.

 

I have to agree with this.

There is this idea that just because someone has education and experience with something that their"opinion" weighs more. Nothing can be further from the truth.

They might be able to talk more in detail about certain things and might have some special insight but that doesn't mean that they can say whether something is good other than the obvious things such as quality.

Otherwise let's look within our own lives and know that whatever our tastes are, there is someone out there who has far more knowledge/education and can tell us umpteen reason why what we like is crap.

Personally I'd rather just listen to my own opinion OR if someone can give solid reason as to why they think x and y is good/bad I can at least apply those reasons to what I like. essentially compare and contrast to my taste.

 

  popinjay

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

11/30/11 1:50:50 PM#91


Originally posted by Sovrath

I have to agree with this.
There is this idea that just because someone has education and experience with something that there "opinion" weighs more. Nothing can be further from the truth.

They might be able to talk more in detail about certain things and might have some special insight but that doesn't mean that they can say whether something is good other than the obvious things such as quality.

 



Perfect example for me: Minecraft.


Now, I see a lot of so-called "developer types" praising this game. They talk about it in glowing terms just about everytime I see someone discussing it. Most of the people talking about it are 'technical' people; the "I've got a BA in Blah Blah computer something".

The funny thing is.. when I go to YouTube and see actual videos of what they were doing, I'm like.. "someone was paying money a month to do this?" Seriously, this looks like fun worth paying for to some people but I think it's absolutely dotty.

The Minecraft Project: Slaughter House!


I bet this is the type of guy who thinks TOR stinks because of something technical, and listening to the commentary I'm pretty glad we seem to be extreme polar opposites.

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

11/30/11 4:50:20 PM#92
Originally posted by Yamota

What a terrible article/post. He is basically saying that SW:TOR will be a WoW killer and eclipse it and all he seems to base this is lack of bugs/issues and the storyline for each class?

I am sorry but the first one is no reason for being a WoW killer (Rift had near perfect launch as well) and the second one is just your typical, albeit well done, single player RPG storylines.

So yet another person saying that yet another MMORPG will be the WoW killer and as usual, it wont happen.

100% agree.

 

Considering how RIFT was much more polished at launch than what we can expect from TOR , one can really wonder if we played the same game during the beta. Because let's be realistic here, there's no way BioWare can bring TOR to Rift quality of polish in 2/3 weeks.

 

Also, Quote " SW:TOR has the most compelling storyline of any MMO I have ever seen or played"

Seriously ??? Most of the quests are just average, very predictable and some even unconsistent.

Even in AoC you can find better lines!

  catlana

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1684

Playing GW2, ToR, PoE
Played AoC, Aion, DDO, EQ2, CoH, Rift, TERA, WAR, WoW

11/30/11 9:29:16 PM#93
Originally posted by mmoguy43

Do real developers actually use "WoW-Killer" as a closing statement?

I have heard the statement mostly as a joke. Game devs are mostly normal guys who happened to be talented and dedicated  in certain areas.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

11/30/11 11:41:59 PM#94
Originally posted by Guileplayer

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=688333

It wasn't written by me. I just saw this on the TOR forums and i thought i share it with MMORPG.

That was the worst review ever, highly doubt he's really a developer but you never know.  here's his review:

- lots of positives

- positives greatly outweigh negatives

- will be best fantasy MMORPG of all time

- will be the WOW-killer of 2012 and beyond!

 

  chopgr

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/09
Posts: 178

Wealth is too precious
to be entrusted
to the rich.

11/30/11 11:47:34 PM#95

There is an another issue with new content/patches:

 

Has to be voiced and up to the original SWTOR content otherwise it will feel poor.

http://www.youtube.com/user/chopgr?feature=mhee

"The Heavens burned, the stars
cried out
And under the ashes of infinity,
Hope, scarred and bleeding,
breathed its last."

  User Deleted
11/30/11 11:50:29 PM#96
Originally posted by wormywyrm

I'm not surprised when someone who enjoys WoW also enjoys SWTOR, that is 100% expected.  That does not make it a good game and if anything it makes it less worth my time.

Actually, WoW was a good game. Bad games don't get 10 million + people playing it. Just because YOU don't like something does not make it bad.

  User Deleted
11/30/11 11:52:13 PM#97
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Guileplayer

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=688333

It wasn't written by me. I just saw this on the TOR forums and i thought i share it with MMORPG.

That was the worst review ever, highly doubt he's really a developer but you never know.  here's his review:

- lots of positives

- positives greatly outweigh negatives

- will be best fantasy MMORPG of all time

- will be the WOW-killer of 2012 and beyond!

 

So if he considered it a good game with lots of positives, he is lying about being a developer and his review is bad?

So, to summerize, you believe that if his opinion =/= your opinion, his opinion = wrong?

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

12/01/11 12:01:50 AM#98

This guy's opinion does not change my experience of this game being boring and shallow as sin.  Or that the art and world design is lifeless, sterile and yawn inspiring.  His opinion doesn't change the fact that I was so bored with this game over my second beta weekend, that no matter how hard I tried to keep playing it, I just couldn't stay focused on it.  

I'm glad he loved it, and I'm happy for all who do.  I wish I did too.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3616

12/01/11 12:05:55 AM#99
Originally posted by stealthbr
Originally posted by Terranah

Just because a person works in the games industry doesn't make him any more qualified to judge a games potential success or failure.  We've seen many examples of people in the gaming industry and directly related to projects predict mad success only to succumb to failure.  If anything, his close ties with the industry makes him more myopic than the typical gamer. 

Actually, being related to the business does make him more qualified to judge the game's potential. It's like saying a sport's commentator isn't more qualified than a 10 year old girl to judge a team's potential. He knows the ins and outs of the industry. He has witnessed, has studied, and understands better than any of us what works and what doesn't, what people want and what people don't want.

There were things I liked and disliked about TOR.  Many say the game starts after level 10 and leaving the starter worlds.  Well, I never made it off the starter worlds but ok, some time after launch I guess I will see if that is true or not.

To me though, this game does not appeal to a large segment of mmo gamers.  You go point a then b then c.  It's very scripted and linear.  You are led from beginning of quest to end of quest by a line on your map.  The main game is extremely forumulaic and goes something like this: bla bla bla bla.....open map....follow line to x marks spot....shoot or activate quest objective....maybe more bla bla bla....run back to quest giver.....bla bla bla bla.  This will happen over and over and over again.

I don't think you understand what you're saying here. The most popular MMO in the genre is a THEMEPARK. How can you say that this type of gameplay does not appeal to the masses. It's the complete opposite!

This expert says swg did not have end game and didin't launch on release.  I was playing on the second day, laggy as it was. But the end game was not like a story with a beginning and end.  SWG's brilliance for anyone lucky enough to appreciate it was it's open ended nature.  Long after I had maxed out my points, I was scouring the planets for a home, building a city and army and waging war on neighboring towns.  It was not scripted but happened organically...like life.

SWG failed hard, no matter how much you or a couple of other gamers enjoyed it. This game does not appeal to the sandbox type of gamer, it appeals to the masses.

What we will have to see is if mmo players really want an even more linear and scripted game, once the novelty of VO and light/dark/neutral choices has worn off.  I'm guessing some will be enamored with the stories.  I enjoyed them.  But over time it is far from certain if this game possesses staying power because it is taking something which many have claimed to be a weakness and taken it to the nth degree.

 You don't need to wait. Your answer is already right in front of you. The most successful MMO in America is World of Warcraft. People like this type of gameplay.

Infact, they could be making a classic mistake of not knowing the customer.  A good portion of mmo players may not like it because of it's extreme linear nature.  Some may like the story aspect, but not being mmo gamers will not feel comfortable paying a sub.  Some people will experience the been there done that of linear design and quickly fade.  

 Apparently, you are the one who doesn't understand the game's market.

But at the end of the day, it is Star Wars so it will have a following.  But to say for certain it will be a WOW killer?  WOW is already waning slowly but surely.  But many have claimed to be WOW killers only to crash and burn, and embarrassingly so in many cases.

 

Well, Soe's Smedley decided to NGE SWG.  He was intimately knowledgeable about the industry and his game yet he failed.  The guy that developed Vanguard Saga of Heroes, intimitely knowledgeable of gaming and mmos and he failed.  I doubt the OP of that article holds a position any higher than those two guys.

 

As far as people liking themepark.  Maybe so.  Or maybe a lot of people race through the content to get to the end game raiding and pvp, and the themepark leveling is a means to an end.  People don't necessarily brag about the wonderful themepark questing but rather how quickly they got through it to max level.  Also, many people have been playing WOW for a long time now.  It may not be a matter of not liking it so much as just wanting to experience something different.

 

But at the end of the day I'm not saying TOR will fail.  Infact, initially it will be a huge success.  And I hope it continues to succeed because then you and I and a lot of other people around here will have a game to have fun playing.

  Thorqemada

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1200

12/01/11 12:06:44 AM#100

If this guy is really a developer then we now know the reason why so many games become total waste of time with no creative working design.
This game is polished, this game is Rift with VO-Quest and Companions and this is meant as insult.
There is much Flair in the VO-Quests and the Companions add incredible too but beside this there is NOTHING.
The lifeless World is made of panorama and adventure zones you level thru and as in any other mmo you never come back, especially with the few classes SWTOR offers.
Indeed it has 3 Classes with mirrors of different look at the oposite faction.
Maybe better word is archetype - Mage, Warrior, Rogue with each of them a Healer at heart.
Bioware is simply good at making fantastic storydriven RPGs but they be total incapable of making an interesting world.
When the Story runs out this mmo is simply game over!

Which is not to bad, TSW lures behind and "Mechwarrior Online" may be a PvP-Hit if executed right with reasonable balance and a real impact on the warring of the houses/clans, on the games worlds.
Every PvPer should take a look at it!

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
MWO Machinima - Revival (Clan Invasion): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saheVNMp7qQ

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