Originally posted by chilliz

Funny how every tom, dick and joe think they are a developer.  maybe I should start topics with i ama developer as well.  nobody would even know if I was one or not .

That's exactly what i'm thinking.

Hey guys i'm a game developer (that means i'm the IT guy at a small local company) - my opinions are now validated as facts...

Could someone explain to me what the op means by :-

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the dynamic character storyline quests

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What was dynamic about them? they don't branch you off on different story lines dependent on how you answer, the only dynamic thing I could see was the plus or minus of dark/light side points, but then again dynamic has been the buzz word of 2011 :)

Originally posted by AdamTM

Or its 30 developers and the rest a gargantuan ammount of voice-actors and licensing-fees/month, because you know you have to voice new content and Lucas wants a piece of the pie too.

Thats one of the most expensive parts of this game. In WoW an intern can write up a quest-text for a new raid/daily, in TOR you have to hire big names to read shit because else its going to have AoC syndrome with

"The fuck this quest isnt voiced!!!!!"

 

Im actually pretty sure content updates will be horrendously expensive for Bioware/EA, at least compared to other MMOs.

That's why they have long-term contracts with their actors......

Originally posted by EvilGeek

Could someone explain to me what the op means by :-

What was dynamic about them? they don't branch you off on different story lines dependent on how you answer, the only dynamic thing I could see was the plus or minus of dark/light side points, but then again dynamic has been the buzz word of 2011 :)

It means that your responses influence the outcome of each story, which is completely true.

Just because a person works in the games industry doesn't make him any more qualified to judge a games potential success or failure.  We've seen many examples of people in the gaming industry and directly related to projects predict mad success only to succumb to failure.  If anything, his close ties with the industry makes him more myopic than the typical gamer. 

There were things I liked and disliked about TOR.  Many say the game starts after level 10 and leaving the starter worlds.  Well, I never made it off the starter worlds but ok, some time after launch I guess I will see if that is true or not.

To me though, this game does not appeal to a large segment of mmo gamers.  You go point a then b then c.  It's very scripted and linear.  You are led from beginning of quest to end of quest by a line on your map.  The main game is extremely forumulaic and goes something like this: bla bla bla bla.....open map....follow line to x marks spot....shoot or activate quest objective....maybe more bla bla bla....run back to quest giver.....bla bla bla bla.  This will happen over and over and over again.

This expert says swg did not have end game and didin't launch on release.  I was playing on the second day, laggy as it was. But the end game was not like a story with a beginning and end.  SWG's brilliance for anyone lucky enough to appreciate it was it's open ended nature.  Long after I had maxed out my points, I was scouring the planets for a home, building a city and army and waging war on neighboring towns.  It was not scripted but happened organically...like life.

What we will have to see is if mmo players really want an even more linear and scripted game, once the novelty of VO and light/dark/neutral choices has worn off.  I'm guessing some will be enamored with the stories.  I enjoyed them.  But over time it is far from certain if this game possesses staying power because it is taking something which many have claimed to be a weakness and taken it to the nth degree.

Infact, they could be making a classic mistake of not knowing the customer.  A good portion of mmo players may not like it because of it's extreme linear nature.  Some may like the story aspect, but not being mmo gamers will not feel comfortable paying a sub.  Some people will experience the been there done that of linear design and quickly fade.  

But at the end of the day, it is Star Wars so it will have a following.  But to say for certain it will be a WOW killer?  WOW is already waning slowly but surely.  But many have claimed to be WOW killers only to crash and burn, and embarrassingly so in many cases.

Do real developers actually use "WoW-Killer" as a closing statement?

Hear is a fact :

If 1 out of every 100 people in the US and Canada picked up SWTOR or any other MMO for that matter, it would have a player base of 3.5 million player's just in those 2 countries alone.

People arguing that no game will ever see WoW numbers again is just plain ludicrous. WoW made MMO's more mainstream then they were in the past. Thinking that WoW attained any kind of over all market saturation point is just plain hilarious.

Can SWTOR match or surpass WoW sub numbers? who knows, but it is totally achievable. There will be a game in the not to distant future that will dwarf WoW subscription numbers.

I think 90% of all the programs on TV are utter trash but millions upon millions love it. I'm the minority.

Originally posted by Terranah

Just because a person works in the games industry doesn't make him any more qualified to judge a games potential success or failure.  We've seen many examples of people in the gaming industry and directly related to projects predict mad success only to succumb to failure.  If anything, his close ties with the industry makes him more myopic than the typical gamer. 

Actually, being related to the business does make him more qualified to judge the game's potential. It's like saying a sport's commentator isn't more qualified than a 10 year old girl to judge a team's potential. He knows the ins and outs of the industry. He has witnessed, has studied, and understands better than any of us what works and what doesn't, what people want and what people don't want.

There were things I liked and disliked about TOR.  Many say the game starts after level 10 and leaving the starter worlds.  Well, I never made it off the starter worlds but ok, some time after launch I guess I will see if that is true or not.

To me though, this game does not appeal to a large segment of mmo gamers.  You go point a then b then c.  It's very scripted and linear.  You are led from beginning of quest to end of quest by a line on your map.  The main game is extremely forumulaic and goes something like this: bla bla bla bla.....open map....follow line to x marks spot....shoot or activate quest objective....maybe more bla bla bla....run back to quest giver.....bla bla bla bla.  This will happen over and over and over again.

I don't think you understand what you're saying here. The most popular MMO in the genre is a THEMEPARK. How can you say that this type of gameplay does not appeal to the masses. It's the complete opposite!

This expert says swg did not have end game and didin't launch on release.  I was playing on the second day, laggy as it was. But the end game was not like a story with a beginning and end.  SWG's brilliance for anyone lucky enough to appreciate it was it's open ended nature.  Long after I had maxed out my points, I was scouring the planets for a home, building a city and army and waging war on neighboring towns.  It was not scripted but happened organically...like life.

SWG failed hard, no matter how much you or a couple of other gamers enjoyed it. This game does not appeal to the sandbox type of gamer, it appeals to the masses.

What we will have to see is if mmo players really want an even more linear and scripted game, once the novelty of VO and light/dark/neutral choices has worn off.  I'm guessing some will be enamored with the stories.  I enjoyed them.  But over time it is far from certain if this game possesses staying power because it is taking something which many have claimed to be a weakness and taken it to the nth degree.

 You don't need to wait. Your answer is already right in front of you. The most successful MMO in America is World of Warcraft. People like this type of gameplay.

Infact, they could be making a classic mistake of not knowing the customer.  A good portion of mmo players may not like it because of it's extreme linear nature.  Some may like the story aspect, but not being mmo gamers will not feel comfortable paying a sub.  Some people will experience the been there done that of linear design and quickly fade.  

 Apparently, you are the one who doesn't understand the game's market.

But at the end of the day, it is Star Wars so it will have a following.  But to say for certain it will be a WOW killer?  WOW is already waning slowly but surely.  But many have claimed to be WOW killers only to crash and burn, and embarrassingly so in many cases.

Originally posted by Terranah

 

To me though, this game does not appeal to a large segment of mmo gamers.  You go point a then b then c.  It's very scripted and linear.  You are led from beginning of quest to end of quest by a line on your map.  The main game is extremely forumulaic and goes something like this: bla bla bla bla.....open map....follow line to x marks spot....shoot or activate quest objective....maybe more bla bla bla....run back to quest giver.....bla bla bla bla.  This will happen over and over and over again.

  

If i compare wow (go from a to b to now kill 42736 boars) to swg (a fully open ended perfect mmo) i think the large segment of mmo players just like a dumb game with pritty graphics and some illusion of a store.

just look at tv, the dumbest repeats of reality tv series are the ones with the most viewers. the masses have very low standards for entertainment

SWTOR is simply put, the best fantasy MMORPG that has ever been made to date.

Just another clueless fanboy

Hate to point out the obvious but the link isn't cosher

Compare it with Trions own http://www.riftgame.com/en/shardstatus/

It is the middle of the day, during the middle of the week.  But yeah - not sure what Rift Server Status website is all about.

Regardless, Rift was a massive success for recent AAA MMOs that have come out.  Bigger than it should of been considering it was a new company, new IP with not much advertising except for websites like this and on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Trion Worlds has been featured in Forbes for their success and they talked about going public.  They have two other games planned currently.  This does not sound like a company that is doing poorly.  They have said that the game has beat expectations and because of that has allowed them to ramp up the amount of content they are delivering as a 'service' to their paying customers.

For SWTOR the game has one thing going for it.  The story.  It's quite honestly the only reason I'm going to be playing the game.  It's that damn good.

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Originally posted by red_cruiser
That thread was pretty silly. The guy only really talks about bugs, lag, and server problems.

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And that's the problem with a lot of the critics. They focus on the right things in mmos for the wrong reasons.

Forums are so full of self-professed "computer experts", "developers", "coders", "game designers" who appoint themselves that title after a few years at a local community college. These people think they know everything there is to know and can't wait to prove you wrong about any technical issue in a game; lag rates, bugs, why something doesn't "technically" work, etc. Unless you are in the industry you either have no idea what they are talking about or aren't interested. They mainly make technical analysis for each other, which is actually a GOOD thing for the industry.

That said, the gaming industry doesn't actually make games for these types of people despite what they think. The gaming industry makes games for people interested in fun, not dissecting them. A good example I can use is Rift and TOR, seeing as I had a six month sub playing that game.

Rift was launched in a amateur developer's wet-dream state. Most everything worked very well. There was a huge amount of characters to make for complexity's sake, the graphics were good and there weren't nearly as many bugs and the previous two mmos before Rift came out put together had. In short, Rift is a 'technically perfect' game or what people say is "good". It's like they made Rift with the mindset that mostly programmers and techsters would be playing it.

That said, it is one of the most BORING, mind numbingly, and poorly told stories I've seen in any recent MMO for immersion. It's literally fun for about one or two months, then you go to a "technically perfect" reputation grind with 1,000 currencies, non-stop dungeon/raiding and PvP with no consequences or little balance.

ToR will not release in any technically perfect state at all. There are going to be probably tons of bugs in the game from what I see. Things don't work right and there are things they need to add. But even beyond all that, TOR was simply more FUN than Rift even in that beta state.

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Originally posted by Starpower

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Originally posted by Supersoups

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Originally posted by ShredderSE

So far I been right about the new MMORPG. Last one was Rift, just after some hours of Beta testing of that game I had a feeling it would not make it. Now look at that game.
SWTOR will fail after some month. End of story.

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Oh Rift didn't make it?
http://www.riftserverstatus.com/
65 US servers,  54 EU servers. Now check how many are on high and this is not even peak time. Is this how game that didn't make it looks like? Name me any other MMO in P2P category after WOW which has been able to hold these many servers and players in first year of release?
If after one year SWTOR resembles anything like this i would say job well done even though i have feeling that SWTOR would do even better.

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Hate to point out the obvious but the link isn't cosher
Compare it with Trions own http://www.riftgame.com/en/shardstatus/
 
besides everyone can go on a messageboard and claim they are a game developer. It's the internetz

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You guys are looking at daily snapshots. Probably better to get a whole picture over a month or longer.

riftstatus.net

This shows the whole month of November which just ended today. Look at where the shards started when the month began, and look at the last date.

Rift started out at around 35% of it's servers in "low trend" for November. On that chart it's now over 60% of servers spending time in "low trend" status.. it's actually so high you can't even see it on the graph anymore. This tracking tool is pretty accurate and is the oldest one around since I had been playing Rift.

Originally posted by Supersoups

Oh Rift didn't make it?

http://www.riftserverstatus.com/

65 US servers,  54 EU servers. Now check how many are on high and this is not even peak time. Is this how game that didn't make it looks like? Name me any other MMO in P2P category after WOW which has been able to hold these many servers and players in first year of release?

If after one year SWTOR resembles anything like this i would say job well done even though i have feeling that SWTOR would do even better.

Hmn, apparently that site no longer updates:

Here's the Trion's own shard status:

http://www.riftgame.com/en/shardstatus/

Sure as hell doesn't look there're that many on high, and sure as hell there're nowhere near "65 US servers, 54 EU servers".

Tell you what, RIFT's apparently on an irreversible decline with few signs of stopping. And I predict SWTOR will looks like that about 6 months(which is a quite generous estimation) after launch.

Even acknowledging that developers aren't the same as designers (and the latter are more likely to offer controversial views), I'd have liked to see the reviewer give more points and reasoning and less "it's good and I should know".

I would really like to hear knowledgeable people discussing how Blizzard set the bar with phase technology and how bad they feel it is that TOR uses more transparent instance sections. I mean, for such a story-driven MMO that seems really important to me. The storyline says that you go to a planet and change it dramatically (ending the war, becoming a cult figure, etc). And the old KOTORs certainly gave that impression that the world was different following your quest line. (I suspect all Bioware games do, though I don't have that much experience with them.) But in SW:TOR, the story says you ended the war but you step outside and it's still going on full strength. It rather undermines the story they're trying to tell.

Not to suggest that such tech is easy. Blizzard does far more humble storylines and still had an amazing feat. To my knowledge only LOTRO has made similar accomplishments. But to be the best in the industry I think this is the new standard, and it's relevant to TOR's strengths, and you'd think a developer would acknowledge such a thing, but this "review" did little more than tell us the servers won't crash. Not particularly insightful regardless of the author's creds.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Game won't last more than 3months unless they dump 10s of millions into quest development & content developement each MONTH alone.

 

 

:)

Ironic that you talk about OPINION and then try to pass of the above as fact.  

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Originally posted by stealthbr

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Originally posted by EvilGeek
Could someone explain to me what the op means by :-
What was dynamic about them? they don't branch you off on different story lines dependent on how you answer, the only dynamic thing I could see was the plus or minus of dark/light side points, but then again dynamic has been the buzz word of 2011 :)

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It means that your responses influence the outcome of each story, which is completely true.

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Originally posted by EvilGeek

 

I agree with the story being dynamic but the questing rarely was, I can only recall one choice that had a significant impact on the following quest, that was in a flashpoint, the rest just gave you story options that would lead to the same next step regardless, I guess that one example is enough for the op to use the word dynamic, I'll gracefully stand corrected :)

 

Um... maybe you didn't pay close attention. For instance, in Hutta there is a quest where you had the option of either killing a boy's father and sending the boy to become a Sith or you simply lie to his mother. There's also a quest where you can either assassinate a rebel leader and take his head to your boss or trick your boss by presenting a random decapitated head. There's a quest where you either morally confront a "poacher" or you just kill him. There's a quest where you either rescue a boy from a gang or you let him die. Indeed, just in the starter planets there are several instances where you are confronted with difficult choices that do change the outcome of the story. As you have stated, Flashpoints work the same way.

Originally posted by Guileplayer

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=688333

It wasn't written by me. I just saw this on the TOR forums and i thought i share it with MMORPG.

Not really convinced thats a developer, maybe the tea boy, but his grammar and use of words come across as very unprofessional for me to make the former statement.

Originally posted by mrxennon

Originally posted by Guileplayer

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=688333

It wasn't written by me. I just saw this on the TOR forums and i thought i share it with MMORPG.

Not really convinced thats a developer, maybe the tea boy, but his grammar and use of words come across as very unprofessional for me to make the former statement.

Yes, because everyone knows game developers always use proper grammar and spelling and are eloquent English writers despite their varying nationalities?