I've come to the conclusion that despite the stereotypes of "haters gonna hate", most people actually don't like to hate.  It's draining, it's unpleasant to be around, it's not something most people enjoy doing.  But they do it because they feel caged or cornered.  I don't have the patience with people to understand every source of hate (nor do I expect others to always have patience with me when I go on a rant), but I try to respect that people don't hate for no reason at all.

While I (as an American) enjoy the cheeky rantings of a British humorist along with the next Yank....I think you missed the point in many of your "Reasons" people critique the game.

Reason 1: It is not (Insert your first MMORPG here)

True, many MMORPG enthusiasts often recall their first MMORPG game as the end-all, be-all of how a TRUE MMORPG should be made. 

However, most of these folks often recall back to one of the traditional MMORPGs.  Whether you're opining for Everquest, Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, or Star Wars Galaxies.....the common theme among most of these games is the Virtual World look & feel.  It's feeling like you're part of a community of players that exist in a dynamic world where players carve out their own existance.  That feeling & experience was something, at that time of gaming, was something unique among all other traditional genres of gaming. 

You couldn't get the same experience in those games mentioned in any single player (or even any co-op multiplayer) RPG, console, FPS, RTS, or any other genere of gaming.  It was unique among MMORPGs and thats why gamers (that were looking for something more) gravitated to the genre.

The same cannot be said today.  You're experience in SW:TOR isn't much different than you could get out of another BioWare RPG with a co-op lobby attached to it.  THATS the biggest disapointment of modern MMORPGs.

Reason for Hate 2:  The Brood

There is a whole financial componet to this discussion that is completely missed....and almost always ignored when this topic comes up.  Of course games will "borrow" successful features.  But what Blizzard set out to do was something on a much grander scale.  They weren't mearly trying to duplicate sucessful features of previous MMORPGs....they had EXPRESS INTENTS on mainstreaming the genere for financial benefit.  I'm not saying they were ONLY in it for the money (like many FTP clones are).  I'm saying that their intentions were not purely driven to benefit the genere is all....

In some interviews the developers gave about early development....one of their primary objectives was the make the game "accessible" first and foremost....even if it meant getting away from that hard knocks virtual world approach to MMO development.  They noticed that the MMORPG industry had one of the most lucrative pay models in gaming...that was being wasted on one of the most niche audiences of gaming.  Think of the possibilities if "we"...being Blizzard...could match up the largest portion of the gamer pie (casual gamers) with the gaming industries most lucrative pricing models.....why, we could be millionares!

And thats what they did.....the successfully pulled in 10+ million gamers into the MMORPG genere of gaming that did not exist before.  All the FPS, RPG, console, and other casual gamers that were previously turned off to MMORPG gaming (due to things like long time sinks, no hand holding, high learning curve, dependency on grouping and developing relationships) now were able to play a streamlined MMORPG that did much to remove those previous barriers to entry into the MMORPG genere.

AND because of WOW's success at capturing this new MASS audience....the big AAA publishers that have the requisite funding to put out a polished product can no long afford to go after the original niche MMORPG audience (that enjoys virtual worlds).  EA (publisher of Ultima Online) can no longer afford to drop 10s - 100s of millions of dollars on a game that doesn't appeal to that WOW audience.  They can't drop 300 million on a game that takes 4+ years of development if it will only appeal to 200-300 thousand players.  No, they have to go after the casual MMO audience (a.k.a. WOW types) because the upside is in the MILLIONS of subscribers, not THOUSANDS. 

And THAT is why we have Warhammer, SW:TOR, Aion, LoTR, Age of Conan, and all the other "themepark action oriented" MMORPGs being put out.  Meanwhile, traditional MMORPGs more akin to UO and EQ are left to the indies (and their serverly limited funds and operational capabilities) like Mortal Online, Darkfall, Xyson.

Reason to Hate 3: Chuck Mother Effing Norris

You got this one right.....all the Chuck Norris (a.k.a. pop culture talk) is emblematic of the community.  Old washed up Karate men aside, any attempt at rational conversation or a genuine question to the general populus in WOW was met with immature mom jokes, appathy, or just general silence.  For all the crap & anti-solcial behavior the old UO community gets flack for......I've recieved more help and general good will from other players in UO than I ever did in WOW.

I find it interesting that people balk anytime another person brings up how terrible WOW's community is (if you build it, they will come) yet it has one of the worst gaming communities I've experienced in any of the older MMORPGs.

Reason for hate 4: Sugar, Spice, and Everything Nice

Sorry man, I have no idea how you weren't able to make it to level cap (at any level).  Unless you were moonlighting with other games or generally played the game < 5 hours a week...there is no way you couldn't make it to max level. 

The game at launch was MUCH easier than playing my previous MMORPG, Lineage 2.  The game NOW is a complete joke.  You can literally solo your entire way to max level and never have to rely on any social skills to get grouped for more rewarding loot.

I do agree with your point though that the situation is a bit of "you reap what you sow".  This just supports my argument that many of the people playing popular MMORPGs today (WOW) are filled with gamers that previously played more casual types of games that had game mechanics that completely flew in the face of traditional MMORPGs.

Reason for Hate 5: You just like to moan

Yet again another symptom of making your game appeal to the masses.  I don't disagree with your "hipster" arguement.  I'm just saying its emblemantic of the new audience that casual MMORPGs courts.

Originally posted by maplestone

I've come to the conclusion that despite the stereotypes of "haters gonna hate", most people actually don't like to hate.  It's draining, it's unpleasant to be around, it's not something most people enjoy doing.  But they do it because they feel caged or cornered.  I don't have the patience with people to understand every source of hate (nor do I expect others to always have patience with me when I go on a rant), but I try to respect that people don't hate for no reason at all.

I don't think that most people that are being labeled as "haters", actually even hate. It seems moreso that anyone that voices even slight dislike or criticism gets labelled as a hater. These forums, heck the industry, is getting so polarized that it seems that the attitude of "if you're not with us, you're against us", is taking over.

For myself. I dislike what WoW has become, I dislike the people it's attracted in it's later years to both itself and the MMO industry, and I dislike the direction they're aiming the future development of the game. But I don't hate WoW. I wouldn't have played it for six years if I did.

Hate is a pretty strong word. It has a very strong negative connotation. I think the problem of so many people "hating" WoW, is that too many other people are taking any negative opinion or criticism and blowing it way out of proportion.

In other words, a lot of people dislike WoW. But even if they do, so what? People are entitled to their own opinion.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by maplestone

I've come to the conclusion that despite the stereotypes of "haters gonna hate", most people actually don't like to hate.  It's draining, it's unpleasant to be around, it's not something most people enjoy doing.  But they do it because they feel caged or cornered.  I don't have the patience with people to understand every source of hate (nor do I expect others to always have patience with me when I go on a rant), but I try to respect that people don't hate for no reason at all.

I don't think that most people that are being labeled as "haters", actually even hate. It seems moreso that anyone that voices even slight dislike or criticism gets labelled as a hater. These forums, heck the industry, is getting so polarized that it seems that the attitude of "if you're not with us, you're against us", is taking over.

For myself. I dislike what WoW has become, I dislike the people it's attracted in it's later years to both itself and the MMO industry, and I dislike the direction they're aiming the future development of the game. But I don't hate WoW. I wouldn't have played it for six years if I did.

Hate is a pretty strong word. It has a very strong negative connotation. I think the problem of so many people "hating" WoW, is that too many other people are taking any negative opinion or criticism and blowing it way out of proportion.

In other words, a lot of people dislike WoW. But even if they do, so what? People are entitled to their own opinion.

Good point.....I aslo played it for 6 years.  I never said WOW was bad at what they attempted to do.  To the contrary......Blizzard knocked it out the park for what their goal in World of Warcraft was.  And to be clear...the production value & polish WOW has is unmatched in any other game (sans SW:TOR..maybe).

I'm just critical of their goal.  I'm critical of the unintended consequences of lowering that barrier of entry in the name of accessability.  I'm wary of the community that plays a game that appeals to the mass audience (including middle schoolers that have become so anti-social that their main form of communication with friends these days are texts & tweets)

But as you say....there is a difference between "hating" something and being constructively critical of specific game mechanics & dynamics. 

We should be able to rationaly discuss the impact of auto grouping dungeon crawls does to a community without being labeled a biased malcontent.

But as they say, if you can't attack the message.....attack the messenger I guess.

I'd offer that the primary reason that you see the number of posts bashing WoW is far more basic than that though.

Jealousy.

Everyone loves a hero. Everyone loves a winner.

And, for some perverted reason, everyone loves to see that hero/winner fall.

We like the good guy to win only after he got his butt kicked the whole movie.

We like to kick our neighbors "sand-castle" so that ours looks that much better by comparison.

I don't agree with it and it has never made sense to me...but it happens daily.

Regardless of what people say though, WoW has done a great deal for the MMORPG genre...both good and bad.

And it will definitely be remembered for taking MMORPG's mainstream.

Well...after reading this article I sure have Fire burning in my gut.

But *takes a big breath*, I am not going to lash out. I shall keep this energy and channel it towards something constructive, like continuing my work on my own MMORPG.

Thank you and have a nice day, and when it is released, it will embrace your generation too. :)

I feel that world of warcraft has had a negative impact on the MMO industry due to its apparent success as a linear mmorpg.  I was looking forward to it before it was released, and I had over 1000 posts on its forums on the battle.net website.  When it was released, I changed my mind fairly quickly, realizing that it was a step backwards from other MMOs.  But it has excellent marketing and its simplistic gameplay has lead to massive success.

Originally posted by Ghostsan

Wow is still the best MMO there is. Wich doesnt prevents other games of trying to achieve what Wow has done. Its 7 years without any competition. For better or for worse. Many games were released and many more will come. The only game that will make wow die, is probably the next Blizzard MMO. Loving it or hating it, what matters is that all of you lovers and haters are talking and thinking about WOW, an old MMO that still is the best around.

Enjoy.

 

If you think WoW is the best there is, you haven't tried enough of them. Believe me, it's not.

Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

Originally posted by Ghostsan

Wow is still the best MMO there is. Wich doesnt prevents other games of trying to achieve what Wow has done. Its 7 years without any competition. For better or for worse. Many games were released and many more will come. The only game that will make wow die, is probably the next Blizzard MMO. Loving it or hating it, what matters is that all of you lovers and haters are talking and thinking about WOW, an old MMO that still is the best around.

Enjoy.

 

If you think WoW is the best there is, you haven't tried enough of them. Believe me, it's not.

What MMO surpasses WoW and in what way?

Or can you list various MMOs and maybe one thing about them that some people like.

WoW is the top dog. Doesn't matter how you "feel" about it. It just is.

I'm tired of WoW and it's various clones, but I don't see the point in knocking the game. It set a lot of mechanic and craftsmanship standards that obviously has "inspired" just about any worthwhile title to come along after.

This is like a religious debate. Who says you can only love one game at the same time? And why do you have to be so extreme about it, whether you love it or hate it?

I think one of the main reasons why people leave wow, is because there is just not enought things to do after you maxed out one, two, five or ten chars. I have 10 lvl 85 chars, maxed out all professions (incl. fishing and cooking). I know it's sad, but we had our 10 chars paired up with my husband, maxed them all out, were working towards that for years... and when we finally did it, we sat back, said 'Yay! What now?' We both knew that it was the end of it. We hung around for a bit longer, did some more raids and then quit.

We've made some great friends who we met irl, but everybody we knew already quit wow. There's not even a mention of an expansion pack and tbh the things they added lately is not really worth mentioning.

So - in my, our our case - it's not about hatered, it's just plain boredom.

Originally posted by Tempramental

This is like a religious debate. Who says you can only love one game at the same time? And why do you have to be so extreme about it, whether you love it or hate it?

I think one of the main reasons why people leave wow, is because there is just not enought things to do after you maxed out one, two, five or ten chars. I have 10 lvl 85 chars, maxed out all professions (incl. fishing and cooking). I know it's sad, but we had our 10 chars paired up with my husband, maxed them all out, were working towards that for years... and when we finally did it, we sat back, said 'Yay! What now?' We both knew that it was the end of it. We hung around for a bit longer, did some more raids and then quit.

We've made some great friends who we met irl, but everybody we knew already quit wow. There's not even a mention of an expansion pack and tbh the things they added lately is not really worth mentioning.

So - in my, our our case - it's not about hatered, it's just plain boredom.

 

The article isnt discussing people that leave WoW, its the people that trash WoW at any chance they get.  The people that act like WoW was some horrible MMORPG thats the lowpoint of gaming.

Saying that Vanilla WoW was not a good game is either blind hating or ignorance.  Not your thing?  Understandable.  But it was EXTREMELY well made and had soul and passion that many games after it lack.

I also think trashing MoP before its released is even more ignorant.  The notion that bipedal cows and space goats is ok but bipedal pandas (who are part of the lore to begin with) are not is baffling.  And the story line of alliance and horde battling it out and trashing this peaceful land is kind of interesting IMO.  Dont know if I will play MoP or not, but in concept it sounds just fine.  Now if it releases and its nothing but fat monk jokes and no real conflict, then Ill be trashing it along with everyone else.

WoW was, at least at some point, a great game.  Ulduar is considered by many to be one of the ultimate raiding experiences in any MMO (I still prefer PoP era EQ1, but I liked massive raids). People need to accept that WoW accomplished what it set out to accomplish as well as any other MMO.  A little too well.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Tempramental

This is like a religious debate. Who says you can only love one game at the same time? And why do you have to be so extreme about it, whether you love it or hate it?

I think one of the main reasons why people leave wow, is because there is just not enought things to do after you maxed out one, two, five or ten chars. I have 10 lvl 85 chars, maxed out all professions (incl. fishing and cooking). I know it's sad, but we had our 10 chars paired up with my husband, maxed them all out, were working towards that for years... and when we finally did it, we sat back, said 'Yay! What now?' We both knew that it was the end of it. We hung around for a bit longer, did some more raids and then quit.

We've made some great friends who we met irl, but everybody we knew already quit wow. There's not even a mention of an expansion pack and tbh the things they added lately is not really worth mentioning.

So - in my, our our case - it's not about hatered, it's just plain boredom.

 

The article isnt discussing people that leave WoW, its the people that trash WoW at any chance they get.  The people that act like WoW was some horrible MMORPG thats the lowpoint of gaming.

 

Saying that Vanilla WoW was not a good game is either blind hating or ignorance.  Not your thing?  Understandable.  But it was EXTREMELY well made and had soul and passion that many games after it lack.

 

I also think trashing MoP before its released is even more ignorant.  The notion that bipedal cows and space goats is ok but bipedal pandas (who are part of the lore to begin with) are not is baffling.  And the story line of alliance and horde battling it out and trashing this peaceful land is kind of interesting IMO.  Dont know if I will play MoP or not, but in concept it sounds just fine.  Now if it releases and its nothing but fat monk jokes and no real conflict, then Ill be trashing it along with everyone else.

 

WoW was, at least at some point, a great game.  Ulduar is considered by many to be one of the ultimate raiding experiences in any MMO (I still prefer PoP era EQ1, but I liked massive raids). People need to accept that WoW accomplished what it set out to accomplish as well as any other MMO.  A little too well.

 

 

I never said vanilla wow wasn't great. I enjoyed wow most when it really took time and effort to lvl up or work towards your first mount, (which meant lvl 40 and a lot of money).

Ofc wow had a lot of soul. If I thought it wasn't true, I wouldn't have spent years playing it. I'm not even ashamed to say I liked most of the expansions (apart from BC, though it had some nice features, loved my goat-girls).

I'm quite sure your Panda comments were not meant for me, as I haven't bashed them or even played wow after it came out. From what I gather, the main player base wow has by now is Chinese and that that they take real offence in the content . (I have no idea about MoP, but if it's about killing Pandas, I don't like it much either, oh well, I never liked to kill any animals and always avoided killing the young ones. I know, pathetic, but that's female players for you).

What I didn't like to see in the game was how easy  they made it, every aspect of it . A few golds and lvl 20 for a mount, lvling up to 85 from lvl 1 in a few days... it just spoiled it for a lot of people. You might accept it or not, but those were the reasons why everybody I knew in the game left. My husband and I had a guild of about 250 people and apart from 2 players, they all cancelled they subscriptions. I'm sure that most of them have fond memories of wow, but that's just not enough to hang in there.

I haven't played for about 6 months, logged in a few times, but I knew I had to leave at some point. I cancelled my sub a week ago and it wasn't easy to leave my 10 lvl 85 girls. (Oh yeah, I might have mentioned them :))

TLDR

World of Warcraft had it's time.  And will still be around for some time.  But it's definatly time for something different. 

Originally posted by russellb1975

World of Warcraft had it's time.  And will still be around for some time.  But it's definatly time for something different. 

 

Exactly. It was a great game in its own time. I have fond memories of it and I'm sure millions of others have too, but it's time to move on.  

Let the ones who still enjoy it have a good time with it.

WoW suffers from the same attention that EQ had before it; being king of the hill. Before WoW, everything was supposed to be the 'EQ killer.' Bashing on EQ (not SOE, which was completely justifiable) was the cool thing to do. When WoW came along and took the crown, it also became the new target of hate. If another game comes along and takes the crown away from WoW, the same thing will happen to it.

I look at Blizzard Entertainment like I look at LucasFilm LTD. --- Once revered and adored by the geeky masses...

...now abhored and reviled for the egomaniacal plight to do things their way while snubbing the fans, and churning out purile content to chase the almighty dollar.

Having attended several BlizzCons, and after watching time and time again as various Blizzard employees purposefully mocked fans in the audience during Q&A sessions, belittling their opinions no matter how valid they might have seemed, it was clear to me that Blizzard had just grown too "big in the britches" for its own good.

The turn of direction from a company that once seemed to care about its fans and subscribers to a company that appears to be subjecting its subscriber base to some twisted social experiment where "the customer is always wrong", and "we'll do things how we want, screw your opinion, and you will like it or else!" ...

... well, maybe a nice slice of humble pie is in order.

Originally posted by BartDaCat

... well, maybe a nice slice of humble pie is in order.

Don't you think Kotick is enough punishment? :grin:

Originally posted by hercules
Chuck norris might read this

LOL.  Bruce Lee kicked your ass, Chuck.