Originally posted by jerlot65

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

 

After many disappointing hours of game play during this weekend's SWTOR Beta, I expected to read a plethora of scathing reviews this morning. I was sadly disappointed.

I stopped reading after this cause I can pretty much guess what that huge wall of text said.

 

I'll just say, that you didn;t see a plethora of scathing reviews because a lot of people love this type of game.  SWTOR is really fun to play if you like themeparks and good RP in a RPG.

My question is why "disappointed"?  I mean just like not everyone has to like the same game as me, everyone doesn't have to hate the same games as me.

 

I loved the game.  I know some people that absolutely hate teh game.  But I can say this.  There is a good chunk of people on this world that love this game and SWTOR will be successful..........

........Hope you're not disappointed.......

I think good RPers would strongly disagree with your assessment. There is little room for RP in TOR. In multiple choice storytelling where every answer you choose leads to the exact same outcome (except, evidently, for how your purchased gear will look) your role is written for you. It isn't role playing - it's role reading.

As for my take, I felt SWTOR turned out to be a much better game than I thought it would. I thought it would be terrible. Turns out, it's a rather sloppy game with some really good up-sides. Companions are cool. Voice acting is good and really does add a lot to the enjoyment of the story. The story itself is engaging and a lot of people will like it. I tend to think that people who like Star Wars and get into their class's story arch will greatly enjoy the game, for a few months at least. People who do not get engaged in the story-telling will find the game seriously lacking in every other measurable.

Originally posted by Joarnaj

It isn't role playing - it's role reading.

Perfect description, was trying to put this into words earlier. Thanks <3

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

I enjoy the chance to create constructive feedback for the Devs.  This morning as I read through ppl's first impressions of the beta build, I was dissapointed that more people hadnt shared in this desire.  I believe such discourse is necessary to better the gaming community.  Sometimes criticism and harsh language is required to open eyes.  This was one of those cases.  Instead of being satisfied with any old thing that is rolled out, more people should shout their desires, and see to it that those grievances have been addressed before comitting any allegiance or loyalty.  I am happy to hear that your level of sophistication nullifies the need for such an outlet.  Remember that insanity is continuing to do the exact same thing again and again, while expecting different results.

Basically,  we should complain to get what we want?  Sure we could do that,  but why diminish something we enjoyed playing. I've been in beta for many months,  it was clear what people were asking for,  and a lot of it didn't come from unrealistic expectations, which I felt a number of your points were.   

 

These are things that you wanted to see, not necessarily what others wanted.  You mention MW3...  yet MW3 is just the same old rehash of every war shooter known to man. 

 

BioWare had a specific vision on what they wanted to create,  my job as a tester was to provide feedback and bug reports on those features to get those features ready to ship.  While my displeasure with things such as space combat was barely acknowledged and unchanged,   little, modest tweaks were,  all for the sake of getting the game in ship-ready condition.   

 

You don't have to be satisfied with the game,  you don't have to like it, or play it,  but you'll be hurting yourself more than anyone else to have unrealistic expectations when playing ... well... any game.  Wish for the stars,  just don't expect them.

I disagree with this response more on principle than anything else, mostly because I don't enjoy being taken advantage of.

 

If we don't demand better from developers, they're going to give us exactly what they can get away with and nothing more (example: we've proven you can charge a subscription fee in tandem with additional microtransactions, this has become standard practice for many companies since - microtransaction content had previously been part of your subscription). We're not their friends, they're not in business to give us something fun to do: they're in business to make money. When bottom lining, you look for the most efficient and cost effective way to go about continuing to produce, and the most cost efficient way to keep a business running is to change absolutely nothing. So, unless people are bitching up a storm, raising hell for the people who actually make decisions in these companies, nothing ever changes and nothing ever gets fixed.

 

In regards to TOR and expectations, however, it was pretty easy to see what this game was, even miles down the track. It's not to say that I forgive them for making a game that I think is standard or mediocre in most ways, it's just that I knew what to expect before I started my bitching, and thusly also don't expect anything to come of it unless everyone else joins in.

Demanding better doesn't mean demanding what you want only,  as you'll never get it.  People pretend theres unlimited budgets, and that game direction can turn on a dime, and thats just not possible.  Not liking SWTOR because theres no sandbox gameplay is a really bad stance on what is otherwise an enjoyable themepark game.  Not liking SWTOR because it has inherent similarities that many of the genres games do is again, complaining for complainings sake.   

These things were likely never going to change.  Fundamental design features don't get changed due to 1,  or 5... or 100 people complaining about them,  they get changed if and when they are a complete failure that detract from the entire game.   

BioWare had some choices here,  and its obvious they went with a safe bet.  We can ask for much more,  but expecting much more is pointless... the studio will only put out what it feels is right for the game.  Hence, positive reactions feed that direction, and negative reactions end up creating a rift between gamers instead of forcing BioWare to change their direction.  

Thats why I've been saying,  people are focusing on the flaws of the game to profess their dislike of SWTOR... because it didn't provide some type of gameplay feature they personally wanted,  but that doesn't mean the game is bad.  It means the game is not for them.  I guess its easier to push the blame on someone else than come to the realization that you don't have to like every game, even if its a popular or well received one.     In that same avenue, complaining about it won't accomplish anything, other than tearing down something that was never meant for you in the first place.  

Had there been a large negative response this conversation wouldn't be happening right now.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Demanding better doesn't mean demanding what you want only,  as you'll never get it.  People pretend theres unlimited budgets, and that game direction can turn on a dime, and thats just not possible.  Not liking SWTOR because theres no sandbox gameplay is a really bad stance on what is otherwise an enjoyable themepark game.  Not liking SWTOR because it has inherent similarities that many of the genres games do is again, complaining for complainings sake.   

 

These things were likely never going to change.  Fundamental design features don't get changed due to 1,  or 5... or 100 people complaining about them,  they get changed if and when they are a complete failure that detract from the entire game.   

 

BioWare had some choices here,  and its obvious they went with a safe bet.  We can ask for much more,  but expecting much more is pointless... the studio will only put out what it feels is right for the game.  Hence, positive reactions feed that direction, and negative reactions end up creating a rift between gamers instead of forcing BioWare to change their direction.  

 

Thats why I've been saying,  people are focusing on the flaws of the game to profess their dislike of SWTOR... because it didn't provide some type of gameplay feature they personally wanted,  but that doesn't mean the game is bad.  It means the game is not for them.  I guess its easier to push the blame on someone else than come to the realization that you don't have to like every game, even if its a popular or well received one.     In that same avenue, complaining about it won't accomplish anything, other than tearing down something that was never meant for you in the first place.  

 

Had there been a large negative response this conversation wouldn't be happening right now.

i wouldn't say expecting more is pointless and to say fundamental things won't change isn't true either.. for example look at star wars galaxies game went and completely redid how its skill and leveling works. I mean changed the entire system from a open skill based system to level based.. although it sort of back fired though heh.. if enough complain and they start losing enough people changes can and will come... I just wouldn't expect them for awhile after release

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

 

 

i wouldn't say expecting more is pointless and to say fundamental things won't change isn't true either.. for example look at star wars galaxies game went and completely redid how its skill and leveling works. I mean changed the entire system from a open skill based system to level based.. although it sort of back fired though heh.. if enough complain and they start losing enough people changes can and will come... I just wouldn't expect them for awhile after release

This is a different situation,  its rare to see complete combat revamps,  but most especially at launch.   The fundamental gameplay for SWTOR is highly unlikely to change,  but the point I was making is,  overall positive responses over the game are what drove SWTOR to where it is now.      SWG - well,  it had a lot of negative responses,  primarily due to SOE never being able to fix the game properly... perhaps they took that to mean  "change all of the classes and the way you play the entire game".    They did say it was a poor decision,  of course,  that wasn't until years later.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

I enjoy the chance to create constructive feedback for the Devs.  This morning as I read through ppl's first impressions of the beta build, I was dissapointed that more people hadnt shared in this desire.  I believe such discourse is necessary to better the gaming community.  Sometimes criticism and harsh language is required to open eyes.  This was one of those cases.  Instead of being satisfied with any old thing that is rolled out, more people should shout their desires, and see to it that those grievances have been addressed before comitting any allegiance or loyalty.  I am happy to hear that your level of sophistication nullifies the need for such an outlet.  Remember that insanity is continuing to do the exact same thing again and again, while expecting different results.

Basically,  we should complain to get what we want?  Sure we could do that,  but why diminish something we enjoyed playing. I've been in beta for many months,  it was clear what people were asking for,  and a lot of it didn't come from unrealistic expectations, which I felt a number of your points were.   

 

These are things that you wanted to see, not necessarily what others wanted.  You mention MW3...  yet MW3 is just the same old rehash of every war shooter known to man. 

 

BioWare had a specific vision on what they wanted to create,  my job as a tester was to provide feedback and bug reports on those features to get those features ready to ship.  While my displeasure with things such as space combat was barely acknowledged and unchanged,   little, modest tweaks were,  all for the sake of getting the game in ship-ready condition.   

 

You don't have to be satisfied with the game,  you don't have to like it, or play it,  but you'll be hurting yourself more than anyone else to have unrealistic expectations when playing ... well... any game.  Wish for the stars,  just don't expect them.

I disagree with this response more on principle than anything else, mostly because I don't enjoy being taken advantage of.

 

If we don't demand better from developers, they're going to give us exactly what they can get away with and nothing more (example: we've proven you can charge a subscription fee in tandem with additional microtransactions, this has become standard practice for many companies since - microtransaction content had previously been part of your subscription). We're not their friends, they're not in business to give us something fun to do: they're in business to make money. When bottom lining, you look for the most efficient and cost effective way to go about continuing to produce, and the most cost efficient way to keep a business running is to change absolutely nothing. So, unless people are bitching up a storm, raising hell for the people who actually make decisions in these companies, nothing ever changes and nothing ever gets fixed.

 

In regards to TOR and expectations, however, it was pretty easy to see what this game was, even miles down the track. It's not to say that I forgive them for making a game that I think is standard or mediocre in most ways, it's just that I knew what to expect before I started my bitching, and thusly also don't expect anything to come of it unless everyone else joins in.

Demanding better doesn't mean demanding what you want only,  as you'll never get it.  People pretend theres unlimited budgets, and that game direction can turn on a dime, and thats just not possible.  Not liking SWTOR because theres no sandbox gameplay is a really bad stance on what is otherwise an enjoyable themepark game.  Not liking SWTOR because it has inherent similarities that many of the genres games do is again, complaining for complainings sake.   

 

These things were likely never going to change.  Fundamental design features don't get changed due to 1,  or 5... or 100 people complaining about them,  they get changed if and when they are a complete failure that detract from the entire game.   

 

BioWare had some choices here,  and its obvious they went with a safe bet.  We can ask for much more,  but expecting much more is pointless... the studio will only put out what it feels is right for the game.  Hence, positive reactions feed that direction, and negative reactions end up creating a rift between gamers instead of forcing BioWare to change their direction.  

 

Thats why I've been saying,  people are focusing on the flaws of the game to profess their dislike of SWTOR... because it didn't provide some type of gameplay feature they personally wanted,  but that doesn't mean the game is bad.  It means the game is not for them.  I guess its easier to push the blame on someone else than come to the realization that you don't have to like every game, even if its a popular or well received one.     In that same avenue, complaining about it won't accomplish anything, other than tearing down something that was never meant for you in the first place.  

 

Had there been a large negative response this conversation wouldn't be happening right now.

While I agree with some of your post, we're simply of two different minds. It is true that if there had been a large negative response to TOR, this conversation wouldn't be happening. It's true that game development doesn't change on a dime, and that TOR isn't a bad game because it doesn't offer what everyone wants from it. That's about all we agree on, though, and I don't want to sound rude, or like I'm specifically trying to pick you out, but this type of attitude is generally the reason why we continue to see more of the same. That isn't to say that most people aren't looking for more of the same, or that developers aren't providing what appears to fulfill market desires, but that as MMO consumers we are probably far too forgiving.

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

I enjoy the chance to create constructive feedback for the Devs.  This morning as I read through ppl's first impressions of the beta build, I was dissapointed that more people hadnt shared in this desire.  I believe such discourse is necessary to better the gaming community.  Sometimes criticism and harsh language is required to open eyes.  This was one of those cases.  Instead of being satisfied with any old thing that is rolled out, more people should shout their desires, and see to it that those grievances have been addressed before comitting any allegiance or loyalty.  I am happy to hear that your level of sophistication nullifies the need for such an outlet.  Remember that insanity is continuing to do the exact same thing again and again, while expecting different results.

While I share a great part of your critique, and it is explained intelligent and entertaining, I can't share your opitimism in the case of "learning things from critique". Humans never learn from words and rarely from experience.

I am on this website for many years, and with every single MMO I saw the same issues over and over and over. I tried to point at a few, but the learning effect of both gamers and possible dev audience was always exactly zero. I haven't seen a SINGLE TIME in my 5000+ posts that anyone EVER changed his point of view because of anything I had written. And without sounding too arrogant I have severeal reasons to assume my argumentation skills are not the issue. Just for once in those years I would have like to see someone saying "oh, you are right Elikal, now that you explain it, I  see what you mean". Just once for the novelty.

But, be my guest to show me otherwise. Humans learning from explanations and education is a nice idea, young dragon. ;)

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

I enjoy the chance to create constructive feedback for the Devs.  This morning as I read through ppl's first impressions of the beta build, I was dissapointed that more people hadnt shared in this desire.  I believe such discourse is necessary to better the gaming community.  Sometimes criticism and harsh language is required to open eyes.  This was one of those cases.  Instead of being satisfied with any old thing that is rolled out, more people should shout their desires, and see to it that those grievances have been addressed before comitting any allegiance or loyalty.  I am happy to hear that your level of sophistication nullifies the need for such an outlet.  Remember that insanity is continuing to do the exact same thing again and again, while expecting different results.

While I share a great part of your critique, and it is explained intelligent and entertaining, I can't share your opitimism in the case of "learning things from critique". Humans never learn from words and rarely from experience.

I am on this website for many years, and with every single MMO I saw the same issues over and over and over. I tried to point at a few, but the learning effect of both gamers and possible dev audience was always exactly zero. I haven't seen a SINGLE TIME in my 5000+ posts that anyone EVER changed his point of view because of anything I had written. And without sounding too arrogant I have severeal reasons to assume my argumentation skills are not the issue. Just for once in those years I would have like to see someone saying "oh, you are righr Elikal, now that you explain it, I  see what you mean". Just once for the novelty.

But, be my guest to show me otherwise. Humans learning from explanations and education is a nice idea, young dragon. ;)

you are righr Elikal, now that you explain it, I  see what you mean

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

I enjoy the chance to create constructive feedback for the Devs.  This morning as I read through ppl's first impressions of the beta build, I was dissapointed that more people hadnt shared in this desire.  I believe such discourse is necessary to better the gaming community.  Sometimes criticism and harsh language is required to open eyes.  This was one of those cases.  Instead of being satisfied with any old thing that is rolled out, more people should shout their desires, and see to it that those grievances have been addressed before comitting any allegiance or loyalty.  I am happy to hear that your level of sophistication nullifies the need for such an outlet.  Remember that insanity is continuing to do the exact same thing again and again, while expecting different results.

While I share a great part of your critique, and it is explained intelligent and entertaining, I can't share your opitimism in the case of "learning things from critique". Humans never learn from words and rarely from experience.

I am on this website for many years, and with every single MMO I saw the same issues over and over and over. I tried to point at a few, but the learning effect of both gamers and possible dev audience was always exactly zero. I haven't seen a SINGLE TIME in my 5000+ posts that anyone EVER changed his point of view because of anything I had written. And without sounding too arrogant I have severeal reasons to assume my argumentation skills are not the issue. Just for once in those years I would have like to see someone saying "oh, you are righr Elikal, now that you explain it, I  see what you mean". Just once for the novelty.

But, be my guest to show me otherwise. Humans learning from explanations and education is a nice idea, young dragon. ;)

You just made me lose all hope in humanity. I hope you're happy.

Originally posted by Nephaerius

**snip**

Btw all the points in your OP have been made about 10,000x before and have already been debated to death long before First Impressions and the drop of the NDA.  Raising complaints at this point isn't going to make a lick of difference anyway because the game ships 12/20/11.  Not to mention the fact that Bioware has basically made it clear that they're going to make this game however they want regardless of feedback and who they might offend by disregarding it (ex: space on rails, no non-human playable aliens, etc.).

I wholehearledly agree with all the OP points and you.

BioWare, on purpose made a themepark but not any themepark a game on RAILS.

They bet a lot on story thinking they could deliver less on other features and IMHO they made a huge error.

Players want all they already have plus something else/new,  not less: like no day/night cycles, poor character customization, lacking UI, no guild banks, no housing, no appearance tabs, no gear dyes, no swimming, no dual specs, no animal based pet classes, no non based pet classes (for single player mode), no PvP arenas, no fishing, no barber/image designer, no non combat based classes, no guild tabar, no multiplayer mounts, no LFG tool, no third party addons, no non humanoid based playable races...

And they want all the above @launch, or at least most of it.

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by AdamTM

So in essence, if we criticize the game before it comes out its:

"You didn't even play yet!!!"

If we criticize the game in beta:

"Its not done yet, but its pointless to criticize it for things that are already done!!!!"

If we criticize the game after release:

"Why do you play it if you don't like it!!!!????"

 

Is there really a "right time"?

Some people were there to criticize before alpha, some during alpha some in early beta and throughout beta. Everyone, their grandmother and their dog were just let in for a very late wekeend beta that was about stress testing and nothing more. If you were willing to do a 20 GB DL, you got to also get a first look at the game...bonus!

All I'm hearing is some weekend beta testers criticizing early design choices and some deeming that criticism useful feedback because it's negative and negative is better than positive.

I'm failing to see the useful or constructive part of criticizing ships that sailed long ago from a dev point of view.

If you agree with the OP well fine agree with him. Just don't try to educate us--as a dev, of course--on the superiority of negative criticism in a thread that is not about constructive criticism at all but rather about giving an overly-wordy, exagerated, overall negative impression of the whole enchilada... for some unknown reason.

And by the way, I said time AND place...the place would be over yonder on the beta forums. Better chance of influencing devs over there if that's your real intention, don't you think?

Welcome to the forums. We talk about stuff.

Wrong time, right time....who are you to tell anyone when the right or wrong time is? 

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Nephaerius

**snip**

Btw all the points in your OP have been made about 10,000x before and have already been debated to death long before First Impressions and the drop of the NDA.  Raising complaints at this point isn't going to make a lick of difference anyway because the game ships 12/20/11.  Not to mention the fact that Bioware has basically made it clear that they're going to make this game however they want regardless of feedback and who they might offend by disregarding it (ex: space on rails, no non-human playable aliens, etc.).

I wholehearledly agree with all the OP points and you.

 

BioWare, on purpose made a themepark but not any themepark a game on RAILS.

They bet a lot on story thinking they could deliver less on other features and IMHO they made a huge error.

 

Players want all they already have plus something else/new,  not less: like no day/night cycles, poor character customization, lacking UI, no guild banks, no housing, no appearance tabs, no gear dyes, no swimming, no dual specs, no animal based pet classes, no non based pet classes (for single player mode), no PvP arenas, no fishing, no barber/image designer, no non combat based classes, no guild tabar, no multiplayer mounts, no LFG tool, no third party addons, no non humanoid based playable races...

 

And they want all the above @launch, or at least most of it.

Every themepark MMO is on rails. Hence the term. And what other features did they deliver less on? It has everything you want in a themepark MMO, and storytelling to boot!

The things you mention are hardly NEEDED for an MMO to be fun.

Originally posted by Deewe

Originally posted by Nephaerius

**snip**

Btw all the points in your OP have been made about 10,000x before and have already been debated to death long before First Impressions and the drop of the NDA.  Raising complaints at this point isn't going to make a lick of difference anyway because the game ships 12/20/11.  Not to mention the fact that Bioware has basically made it clear that they're going to make this game however they want regardless of feedback and who they might offend by disregarding it (ex: space on rails, no non-human playable aliens, etc.).

I wholehearledly agree with all the OP points and you.

 

BioWare, on purpose made a themepark but not any themepark a game on RAILS.

They bet a lot on story thinking they could deliver less on other features and IMHO they made a huge error.

 

Players want all they already have plus something else/new,  not less: like no day/night cycles, poor character customization, lacking UI, no guild banks, no housing, no appearance tabs, no gear dyes, no swimming, no dual specs, no animal based pet classes, no non based pet classes (for single player mode), no PvP arenas, no fishing, no barber/image designer, no non combat based classes, no guild tabar, no multiplayer mounts, no LFG tool, no third party addons, no non humanoid based playable races...

 

And they want all the above @launch, or at least most of it.

with money and time they had to put this game together no reason why they really don't have at least 75% of what you mentioned up there

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

I enjoy the chance to create constructive feedback for the Devs.  This morning as I read through ppl's first impressions of the beta build, I was dissapointed that more people hadnt shared in this desire.  I believe such discourse is necessary to better the gaming community.  Sometimes criticism and harsh language is required to open eyes.  This was one of those cases.  Instead of being satisfied with any old thing that is rolled out, more people should shout their desires, and see to it that those grievances have been addressed before comitting any allegiance or loyalty.  I am happy to hear that your level of sophistication nullifies the need for such an outlet.  Remember that insanity is continuing to do the exact same thing again and again, while expecting different results.

While I share a great part of your critique, and it is explained intelligent and entertaining, I can't share your opitimism in the case of "learning things from critique". Humans never learn from words and rarely from experience.

I am on this website for many years, and with every single MMO I saw the same issues over and over and over. I tried to point at a few, but the learning effect of both gamers and possible dev audience was always exactly zero. I haven't seen a SINGLE TIME in my 5000+ posts that anyone EVER changed his point of view because of anything I had written. And without sounding too arrogant I have severeal reasons to assume my argumentation skills are not the issue. Just for once in those years I would have like to see someone saying "oh, you are righr Elikal, now that you explain it, I  see what you mean". Just once for the novelty.

But, be my guest to show me otherwise. Humans learning from explanations and education is a nice idea, young dragon. ;)

You just made me lose all hope in humanity. I hope you're happy.

Ah I am sorry. Really. But sometimes it is better to accept what people are capable of. It saves a lot of grief. For them, and you. They are nice playthings. Like a dog you can love and teach a trick. Progress does come, but usually with pain and because humans have bumped their heads against a wall several times.

But don't listen to me. I am just an old dragon in my cave. Maybe I am wrong. It is honorable to try to better things even if you know you are destined to fail. That too is honor.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Every themepark MMO is on rails. Hence the term. And what other features did they deliver less on? It has everything you want in a themepark MMO, and storytelling to boot!

The things you mention are hardly NEEDED for an MMO to be fun.

not NEEDED but pretty much expected since most FREE mmos have 90% of that stuff already... just feels like a big kick in the face for not adding a lot of that in.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

I enjoy the chance to create constructive feedback for the Devs.  This morning as I read through ppl's first impressions of the beta build, I was dissapointed that more people hadnt shared in this desire.  I believe such discourse is necessary to better the gaming community.  Sometimes criticism and harsh language is required to open eyes.  This was one of those cases.  Instead of being satisfied with any old thing that is rolled out, more people should shout their desires, and see to it that those grievances have been addressed before comitting any allegiance or loyalty.  I am happy to hear that your level of sophistication nullifies the need for such an outlet.  Remember that insanity is continuing to do the exact same thing again and again, while expecting different results.

While I share a great part of your critique, and it is explained intelligent and entertaining, I can't share your opitimism in the case of "learning things from critique". Humans never learn from words and rarely from experience.

I am on this website for many years, and with every single MMO I saw the same issues over and over and over. I tried to point at a few, but the learning effect of both gamers and possible dev audience was always exactly zero. I haven't seen a SINGLE TIME in my 5000+ posts that anyone EVER changed his point of view because of anything I had written. And without sounding too arrogant I have severeal reasons to assume my argumentation skills are not the issue. Just for once in those years I would have like to see someone saying "oh, you are righr Elikal, now that you explain it, I  see what you mean". Just once for the novelty.

But, be my guest to show me otherwise. Humans learning from explanations and education is a nice idea, young dragon. ;)

You just made me lose all hope in humanity. I hope you're happy.

Ah I am sorry. Really. But sometimes it is better to accept what people are capable of. It saves a lot of grief. For them, and you. They are nice playthings. Like a dog you can love and teach a trick. Progress does come, but usually with pain and because humans have bumped their heads against a wall several times.

But don't listen to me. I am just an old dragon in my cave. Maybe I am wrong. It is honorable to try to better things even if you know you are destined to fail. That too is honor.

Seriously though, say what you have to say. Whether people learn from it.....we'll never know. Pride gets in the way of things. So does idiocy. Meh.

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Every themepark MMO is on rails. Hence the term. And what other features did they deliver less on? It has everything you want in a themepark MMO, and storytelling to boot!

The things you mention are hardly NEEDED for an MMO to be fun.

not NEEDED but pretty much expected since most FREE mmos have 90% of that stuff already... just feels like a big kick in the face for not adding a lot of that in.

If that's how you feel, I respect it. For me, personally, not so much. There's always "the future" to look for these things. All I need is a solid basis. The fluff will come.

I hope everyone here realizes that if no one thats posted on this forum buys this game bioware will not even notice the diffrence. So foam and froth at the mouth all you want about how much you hate this game or what you think it should be, bioware or EA for that matter will not miss anyones money on this thread.

Originally posted by Veldekar

Originally posted by Biggus99

Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

 

After many disappointing hours of game play during this weekend's SWTOR Beta, I expected to read a plethora of scathing reviews this morning. I was sadly disappointed. 

So you're upset that not everyone hated the game as much as you?  That's mature.  

I was thinking the same thing. That truly is the statement of a hater. This so-called review just seems to be another attempt at trolling...

 You are either new to the forums and you dont know what a troll is or you are so blissfully in love with your new E-Wife, that you are blind to her faults.

 The op backed up his opinions with examples. Examples so far that I haven't heard anyone actually challenge other than to call him names.

I am seeing a lot of people posting "large wall of text...did not read"  and then spew their comments,  lame and quite disappointing.   I guess they will have no one to blame but themselves when they realize in a few months how shallow and sterile Tor really is.   The Tor community really reminds me of the Rift fans in this regard.