Originally posted by Teala

 As someone else that thinks like you do I refuse to spend money on game that is one of the worst MMO's I have ever played.   By you actually spending money on the game all you are doing is supporting the creation of these crappy games.

The OP's review of the game was just one big QQ fest it seems.  Super bashing wall of text. Don't like it don't play it.

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

Star Wars: The Old Republic is simply more of the same old garbage that you've seen in every other WoW clone to date.

The "in a nutshell" review.

Originally posted by rt33

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

Star Wars: The Old Republic is simply more of the same old garbage that you've seen in every other WoW clone to date.

The "in a nutshell" review.

I was wondering when you will come to pat him on his back. You have done it 225 times before why break the pattern? and you forgot to add 'it is for my children and swtor is a single player game'. It never gets old. You have only said it like 100 times before.

Originally posted by rt33

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

Star Wars: The Old Republic is simply more of the same old garbage that you've seen in every other WoW clone to date.

The "in a nutshell" review.

B-I-N-G-O!

all these reviews from 'pro gramers' and 'mmo veterans' are so annoying. it is like you guys dont want a new game to besuccesfull. that same sort of reviews were made about rift. i played wow since vanilla and i still dont see the 'clone' u idiots speak of. omg skill trees 'wow clone'. skill bars 'wow clone' are just a couple of examples. there is no such thing as a polished game no more. the days of nintendo 64 releasing a game with no bugs at all are gone. ive come to learn that if i do the opposite of all the wow fanbois and negative nay says i tend to actually enjoy a game and realize they retarted and wrong.

this just in: FPS PRETTY MUCH USE THE SAME CONTROLS EVERY GAME. If something works why change it. the only thing that has changed with fps is that instead of using the arrow keys like in doom and doom 2 you use keyboard and mouse now.

in fact stay in wow with ya single button macro to do everything noob shit. i dont want to play with QQ babies

This thread blew up.  I guess if you want people to reply you need flameworthy content.

To the OP: I agree with a lot of what you are saying.  Actually, some of your ideas are pretty good to be honest.  If these IP's didn't take so effing long and require so much time and dedication, I'd say MAYBE you should be calling the shots on a game suh as this.

The MMO genre has *barely* evolved in any way shape or form since WoW.  It was successful, and thus, companies like BioWare want to copy it to copy the level of success WoW had.  For some reason, what they don't understand, is that there is a potentially gigantic number of the MMO populous who would like to see the next step in the MMO world.  BioWare/EA had the money to do it, and yet the chose to play it safe, VERY VERY safe, as safe as they possibly could by creating WoW 2.0 on a platform that just about every geek loves.

Smaller start up companies are the ones who are making the biggest leaps and bounds in terms of MMO-innovation, but because of their lack of funding and following, and most always crippled by launch statistics, things aren't going as smoothly as they should be in terms of the MMO-evolution we are so desperately waiting for.

Perhaps we will eventually get lucky and a big company with the right amount of money to invest will put it into making the next best thing.  Until then, if we want to continue our online roleplaying game addiction, we are stuck sifting through titles like WAR, Rift, ToR, playing them for a few months and then moving on to the next one that pops up.  It's kind of sad.  I like SW:TOR and I think it has a shit ton of potential but it's up to BioWare to fulfill that potential.  Whether or not they will do so at all, we will have to wait and see.  But THUS far, the product being delivered to us is exactly what we knew it would be all along.  WoW 2.0 in space, with lightsabers.  I had fun in WoW for a while, so I know i will get SOME fun out of this game.  And then I'll move on, assuming drastic changes are not made that I would like to see.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

Originally posted by Ibanezguitar

While I do understand the sentiment of the OP, why did you believe there was a chance this game would live up to any of your recommendations/expectations? I'm sure you did some research before playing the beta, or did you?

 

So far, SWTOR has lived up to what the developers elucidated early on.

 

Actually, I spent the better part of the last year in Iraq and just got home 12 days ago with a beta invite in my mailbox, so no, while all the rest of the people on this site were gaming their hours away I was dodging IED's and rocket attacks and not reading up about the latest MMO news.  :)

And for the rest of you, the only reason I'm going to play is because I preordered without doing my due diligence and I'm going to play through at least one character's story since that seems to be the only redeeming quality coming out of a 120+ million investment in development.

That's kind of a shameful way to use your vet status to get sympathy.

I'm a vet who supports vets but not for petty uses.

Anyone that states all crazy shit that happens on deployment (and makes it seem like its a daily thing) for the sake of strengthening their credentials is either A. insecure about what they really did in the sandbox ; B. think that people will actually care what they did and will then change their opinions to the big bad war vet; or C. is full of shit.

If you have an opinion then discuss it with the intelligence that you were given and not on the bloated idea of your self importance.  No one cares about your war time service more then you so get over that. Just some advice from a guy whos been playing army for 15 years and decided long ago that what I did on my tours is my own personal thing and no one else has the right to know what I went through (except my battle buddies).

A "WoW" clone? I think not. Of course, all of these "truth's" people are throwing out are very subjective. Keep in mind your opinion isn't the truth to everyone since of course it is an opinion after all.

As far as a wow clone goes, yes there are some things that are very similar. It has characters, story, levels, professions and what not. If that makes it a wow clone, then I guess it's really an ultima clone, or maybe meridian 59 (or whatever the name of that game goes). Is any iteration of call of duty suddenly a wolfenstein or doom clone because they share the same basic framework?

My tastes are quite different these days. I dislike WoW. Not because it's a bad game. It's in fact, a very good game. I'm tired of WoW as I think many other people are and that is the biggest reason many bash it. People on these boards act like Bioware ripped of Blizzard's code, reskined it and slapped the SW:ToR name on it. It's hardly that. Honestly I don't feel it plays or acts anything like WoW (basic combat/character development aside).

Honestly it's a great game and I think a lot of people will like it. I know I'll be spending a great deal of time on it and I look forward to the expansions it will have. Not everyone will like it but again, it's all subjective to the person who's going to be paying for it.

/shrug

Im sorry but i find your review too much agressive and not very realistic, also the lack of wisdom on it is very obvious, im not complaining on the review itself but how you did it, im almost convinced that you can do it better though.

To the OP:

----> That way to Guild Wars 2. The Themepark game that is actually trying to move the themepark MMOG out of the darkages that is the WoW paradigm. Sure it still has the look and feel of the themepark (levels, classes) but besides those it is finally bringing freedom and choice to the themepark MMOG.

My main problem is that we are only going to get one Star Wars MMO for at least the next decade, and instead of something really innovative and new, we get a literal cut and paste copy of WoW.  Oh, wait I'm sorry, they added ranged tanking.  So I can tank from 10 meters way instead of 1 meter away, so that makes my claim completely invalid. lol

I guess there's never any hope for these big IP's.  They will always be given the safe treatment so they can cover royalties to Lucas the Hutt.

Oh, and lol at the guy named SgtAirborne who is pissed at me mentioning my recent deployment.  Irony much?  I demand you change you change your screen name.  How dare you bring your military service into the gaming community! lol

Hehe, how does this extremely negative review of the game get 10 pages of replies and my well thought out post gets no replies? I took ages over my review and it's dropped to page 4 with no replies in less than half a day. Anyway.

As for this guy's review, well I'm not even sure he played the same game as I played this weekend. I don't remember being asked to kill a bajillion of something. I don't even remember being asked to kill 50 of something. I thought Bioware handled the questing very nicely. Nothing I was asked to do ever came across as a kill 5 or fetch 5 type of quest that is so familar in a dozen dozen MMOs. There were instructions to kill 10 of something but it was an optional add on and you were nevr required to do so. I actually found that I was fullfilling those tasks easily in the course of reaching my story based objectives.

Story based is exactly what the questing in SWTOR was. It was like one big epic quest that started at level 1 and will finish at whatever level SWTOR calls max. I always felt like I was doing something to further my character.

Ok in some ways I find myself wishing that SWTOR was as open as SWG, but I've barely scratched the surface of the crafting. I have a feel it can be as much a part of my character as it was for my SWG time. The world is perhaps not as open as what I remember in SWG, and there is certainly no housing or player cities. There is your ship though, but I haven't gotten that far in beta.

I think I saw someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they said this is a sandbox loving guy after a game to satisfy his needs. He's looking in the wrong place because I don't think Bioware have ever suggested they are making a seriously open game. I don't really like the terms sandbox and themepark because there is far too much overlap in the genre to really classify so narrowly. If I had to put SWTOR in a category it wouldn't be sandbox though. Very few games would be sandbox, or especially the depth of sandbox that the OP is after. He should perhaps be playing something such as Xsyon. Yes, I know it's a poor game with a small audience, but that's often what you get for such a narrow frame of wants from a game.

He certainly shouldn't be coming here and listing a whole page of complaints that a game doesn't have what he wants when that game never really appeared to be likely to provide that. It's like buying a sandwich from a vegetarian cafe and asking why they don't have ham. You'll get told you've come to the wrong place. At least he was constructive, even if he was angry, but that's besides the point in his case.

Originally posted by holifeet

He certainly shouldn't be coming here and listing a whole page of complaints that a game doesn't have what he wants when that game never really appeared to be likely to provide that. It's like buying a sandwich from a vegetarian cafe and asking why they don't have ham. You'll get told you've come to the wrong place. At least he was constructive, even if he was angry, but that's besides the point in his case.

No, that's a terrible anaology.  It's like going into a vegetarian sandwich shop and every sandwich on the menu is lettuce and rye with a different name.

Some of us are sick of eating lettuce on rye every meal, and calling it "le lettuce au rye" doesn't change the fact that it's still lettuce on rye.  I want to walk into the vegetarian sandwich shop and see lettuce on rye, tomato on sourdough, tofu burger on wheat and lots of options.  Not the same thing renamed time and time again.

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

No, that's a terrible anaology.  It's like going into a vegetarian sandwich shop and every sandwich on the menu is lettuce and rye with a different name.

Some of us are sick of eating lettuce on rye every meal, and calling it "le lettuce au rye" doesn't change the fact that it's still lettuce on rye.  I want to walk into the vegetarian sandwich shop and see lettuce on rye, tomato on sourdough, tofu burger on wheat and lots of options.  Not the same thing renamed time and time again.

QTF. Or, to make it really stick, the latest lettuce on rye is wrapped with some interesting health facts to read and is 1$ more.

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

Originally posted by holifeet

He certainly shouldn't be coming here and listing a whole page of complaints that a game doesn't have what he wants when that game never really appeared to be likely to provide that. It's like buying a sandwich from a vegetarian cafe and asking why they don't have ham. You'll get told you've come to the wrong place. At least he was constructive, even if he was angry, but that's besides the point in his case.

 

No, that's a terrible anaology.  It's like going into a vegetarian sandwich shop and every sandwich on the menu is lettuce and rye with a different name.

Some of us are sick of eating lettuce on rye every meal, and calling it "le lettuce au rye" doesn't change the fact that it's still lettuce on rye.  I want to walk into the vegetarian sandwich shop and see lettuce on rye, tomato on sourdough, tofu burger on wheat and lots of options.  Not the same thing renamed time and time again.

You should probably make your own game instead of talking about it. I would love to see your response after a few years of development.

You knew this was themepark. You knew you did not like that fact, but you did not do enough research to back up your rant. and ended up with some very incorrect facts. You like sandbox and you think everything should be sandbox. You are entitled to that opinion. You have fun now.

What a great review!

The funny thing is, this is hardly even a sandbox vs linear game issue...  The game could have addressed all of the OP's concerns without even being a sandbox.  Maybe slightly less linear, but thats it. 

He wasn't asking for player cities, elaborate crafting systems, housing, player driven economy, conquest, scripting, or freeform skilltrees.  For the most part he is just sick of the same old classes, etc. 

And anyone who is saying the contrary is foolish. 

Originally posted by holifeet

Hehe, how does this extremely negative review of the game get 10 pages of replies and my well thought out post gets no replies? I took ages over my review and it's dropped to page 4 with no replies in less than half a day. Anyway.

As for this guy's review, well I'm not even sure he played the same game as I played this weekend. I don't remember being asked to kill a bajillion of something. I don't even remember being asked to kill 50 of something. I thought Bioware handled the questing very nicely. Nothing I was asked to do ever came across as a kill 5 or fetch 5 type of quest that is so familar in a dozen dozen MMOs. There were instructions to kill 10 of something but it was an optional add on and you were nevr required to do so. I actually found that I was fullfilling those tasks easily in the course of reaching my story based objectives.

Story based is exactly what the questing in SWTOR was. It was like one big epic quest that started at level 1 and will finish at whatever level SWTOR calls max. I always felt like I was doing something to further my character.

Ok in some ways I find myself wishing that SWTOR was as open as SWG, but I've barely scratched the surface of the crafting. I have a feel it can be as much a part of my character as it was for my SWG time. The world is perhaps not as open as what I remember in SWG, and there is certainly no housing or player cities. There is your ship though, but I haven't gotten that far in beta.

I think I saw someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they said this is a sandbox loving guy after a game to satisfy his needs. He's looking in the wrong place because I don't think Bioware have ever suggested they are making a seriously open game. I don't really like the terms sandbox and themepark because there is far too much overlap in the genre to really classify so narrowly. If I had to put SWTOR in a category it wouldn't be sandbox though. Very few games would be sandbox, or especially the depth of sandbox that the OP is after. He should perhaps be playing something such as Xsyon. Yes, I know it's a poor game with a small audience, but that's often what you get for such a narrow frame of wants from a game.

He certainly shouldn't be coming here and listing a whole page of complaints that a game doesn't have what he wants when that game never really appeared to be likely to provide that. It's like buying a sandwich from a vegetarian cafe and asking why they don't have ham. You'll get told you've come to the wrong place. At least he was constructive, even if he was angry, but that's besides the point in his case.

Did you get to coruscant with a republic char? Because the 'bonus' missions on there (and every planet thereafter) are outragous and do boil down to 'kill 60 more of x enemy'. It's called a 'bonus' mission but you have to do them or you fall behind the leveling curve in your story if you don't. Also past level 20 your personal story goes dramatically into the background. Where as the first 20 odd levels it's about 4/1 missions/story missions but after that it becomes much less important. You can do dozens of missions between every single story mission. It kinda sucks. I really enjoy the story but after 20 it almost becomes the games background.

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

 

No, that's a terrible anaology.  It's like going into a vegetarian sandwich shop and every sandwich on the menu is lettuce and rye with a different name.

Some of us are sick of eating lettuce on rye every meal, and calling it "le lettuce au rye" doesn't change the fact that it's still lettuce on rye.  I want to walk into the vegetarian sandwich shop and see lettuce on rye, tomato on sourdough, tofu burger on wheat and lots of options.  Not the same thing renamed time and time again.

LMAO that is a fantastic analogy of what is wrong with themepark MMOGs these days. They are all lettice on rye with different names. TOR does nothing to change that fact besides things like companions and that you listen to people talk instead of reading a block of text.

For me, GW2 is the vegetarian restaurant that finally realized tomato on sourdough could be just as good as lettuce on rye, if not better.

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Originally posted by EnjoyYour

Originally posted by wormywyrm

What a great review!

The funny thing is, this is hardly even a sandbox vs linear game issue...  The game could have addressed all of the OP's concerns without even being a sandbox.  Maybe slightly less linear, but thats it.

And anyone who is saying the contrary is foolish. 

You seem to be the only one in this thread who does not think this is a sandbox vs. themepark rant. Who is the foolish one you say?

Of-course that is the defense that people who like the game (hence being on this area of the forums) would hide behind.  Which isn't in itself even a good defense but at least it is -something-.

I can't speak for everyone, but I can say without a doubt---I loved the game.  And I can tell you that the vast majority of people that participated in beta the last couple of weekends did as well.  I know that's gotta hurt that not everyone shares your OPINION (notice the difference between opinion and fact), but you'll eventually get over it.  

I don't fault people for not liking the game.  I fault people who think that their opinion is the only one that matters.  Considering millions of people will be enjoying this game, that's obviously not the case.