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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » impressions after 3 beta weekends started Sept..

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30 posts found
  metatronic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/05
Posts: 349

 
OP  11/29/11 7:53:33 AM#1

I was in the first beta weekend in sept and the subsequent ones that followed and my opinion of this game changed drastically by the second and now third beta weekend.

I'm kind of surprised by the negative feedback to be honest. Simply because my negative feelings about the game didn't come till after beta weekend two and up till that point I thought the game was amazing and fun.

Everyone will have different gripes about the game because we all have different things we like or dislike, and this game was really targetting 3 audiences.. The Kotor crowd, the mmo crowd, and the star wars fans crowd. Now you could be one or all three and yet everyone of us has different tastes in games, likes and dislikes.

After my september beta weekend I couldn't wait to play again and praised this game to my peers for weeks.. Then the second beta weekend came and I found myself staring at a character creator that flat out blew. The 4 character classes were not appealing anymore so I decided to make the same character Jedi Consular. I essentially ran through the same story line all over again and was bored to tears by level 10. The most annoying thing at this point was the quests cut scenes.. When all i wanted to do was get the quest, check the map for the area I needed to go and complete it and return, what I was dealing with was very annoying cut scenes and dialogue. I hated it... Space bar, space bar, space bar skip skip skip etc... By the end of weekend two I was agitated about the game and thought to myself, they wasted all that money on voice actors and story and it is just flat out annoying me. I seriously began to think about cancelling my pre order but held off. I figured I would play the game when it came out like a single player online game and maybe play 2 months at most.

Fast forward to beta weekend 3 which just ended.. I decided to play a totally different character and found myself back to liking the actual game again but still hating the single player quest cut scenes. Even on a new toon with a new story, I didn't care what the story was. I wanted to kill things and loot. That is why I play mmo's.. To create the best possible character I can with my game time.

So all in all, I'm still keeping my pre order just to play through it once on one character but I really don't see any longterm replayability for this game. Had they offered an ability to remove cut scenes/voice overs entirely and just allowed me to get the quest I would consider playing through a few characters for more than a few months but I really can't handle the pauses between the action.

Some final thoughts about the game:

I think after 3 months this game will start to die off like Rift did. It will just lose that new car smell and become more of an annoyance to gamers especially the more hardcore ones. I do think this game was made for the kotor series fans ( I am not a fan of btw, nor any bioware game) and the hardcore role players who want to be submersed into a story driven single player game with co op abilities so they can nerd it up with their friends. I think its a niche market and there isn't enough real mmo elements (or they were done piss poorly) to keep mmo gamers playing this game.

  • The instances killed immersion.
  • The crafting is weak and feeble.
  • The space combat is a joke and shouldn't even be in the game till its done right.
  • Not enough classes
  • The skill trees are garbage augmentations that offer miniscule mods.
  • instance pvp -- more fail
  • character creation is very weak
  • still lots of bugs and more than I saw in sept beta..
Everything just seems very generic and what this game is ultimately missing is Raph Koster and whoever designed the swg crafting system, and the JTL space..
 
I think they wasted entirely too much on voice overs, cut scenes and story while the rest of the game is suffering very badly.
 
Ill still play a month or two but don't count on my sub $$$ beyond that.
  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

11/29/11 7:56:09 AM#2

 

Originally posted by metatronic

I think after 3 months this game will start to die off like Rift did. It will just lose that new car smell and become more of an annoyance to gamers especially the more hardcore ones. I do think this game was made for the kotor series fans ( I am not a fan of btw, nor any bioware game) and the hardcore role players who want to be submersed into a story driven single player game with co op abilities so they can nerd it up with their friends. I think its a niche market and there isn't enough real mmo elements (or they were done piss poorly) to keep mmo gamers playing this game.

 

For God sake Rift is not dead or  dying after 3 months. it has been out for almost a year and is more successful and have more subscribers than any of the titles released in recent years. That was one bad comparison you made.

  metatronic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/05
Posts: 349

 
OP  11/29/11 8:02:07 AM#3
Originally posted by Supersoups

 

Originally posted by metatronic

I think after 3 months this game will start to die off like Rift did. It will just lose that new car smell and become more of an annoyance to gamers especially the more hardcore ones. I do think this game was made for the kotor series fans ( I am not a fan of btw, nor any bioware game) and the hardcore role players who want to be submersed into a story driven single player game with co op abilities so they can nerd it up with their friends. I think its a niche market and there isn't enough real mmo elements (or they were done piss poorly) to keep mmo gamers playing this game.

 

For God sake Rift is not dead or  dying after 3 months. it has been out for almost a year and is more successful and have more subscribers than any of the titles released in recent years. That was one bad comparison you made.

Ok, I played rift since closed beta and up till around august. The game died off considerably after the second month. It wasn't until they offered server transfers that the population seemed to get better simply because you could pick where you wanted to play. But up till that point, entire server populations were decimated, entire friends lists were full of offline players. The game did die off, entire guilds collapsed so as you see, in my opinion, rift did die from my point of view.

I also said the game will die off like rift did, after that new car smell fades, all games do.. and your ignorant to think otherwise and haven't observed it happen in many mmo's before.. I have seen it time and time again.

  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

11/29/11 8:06:03 AM#4
Originally posted by metatronic
Originally posted by Supersoups

 

Originally posted by metatronic

I think after 3 months this game will start to die off like Rift did. It will just lose that new car smell and become more of an annoyance to gamers especially the more hardcore ones. I do think this game was made for the kotor series fans ( I am not a fan of btw, nor any bioware game) and the hardcore role players who want to be submersed into a story driven single player game with co op abilities so they can nerd it up with their friends. I think its a niche market and there isn't enough real mmo elements (or they were done piss poorly) to keep mmo gamers playing this game.

 

For God sake Rift is not dead or  dying after 3 months. it has been out for almost a year and is more successful and have more subscribers than any of the titles released in recent years. That was one bad comparison you made.

Ok, I played rift since closed beta and up till around august. The game died off considerably after the second month. It wasn't until they offered server transfers that the population seemed to get better simply because you could pick where you wanted to play. But up till that point, entire server populations were decimated, entire friends lists were full of offline players. The game did die off, entire guilds collapsed so as you see, in my opinion, rift did die from my point of view.

I also said the game will die off like rift did, after that new car smell fades, all games do.. and your ignorant to think otherwise and haven't played many mmo's before.

Let us not make this topic about Rift because it is alive and kicking so your initial statment that SWTOR will die like Rift after 3 month is still wrong. I have played a lot of MMOS and that is why i find what you said completely false because of all the duds that have come out in recent years Rift has seen the most success and is currently second most populated PVE game in P2P category after WOW.

Your personal dislike for game doesn't mean that game is dead or dying. Same goes for SWTOR please put that Crystal Ball of your away if you wan't to have a serious conversation.

  poefue

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/07
Posts: 234

11/29/11 8:08:47 AM#5

/rubs his crystal ball

  User Deleted
11/29/11 8:09:41 AM#6

I wish more people on these forums would use their powers of divinity to send me the next batch of winning PowerBall numbers.

  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

11/29/11 8:13:38 AM#7
Originally posted by metatronic

{mod edit}

Hahahaha...lol.... what has Google even got to do with subject. Is rift still P2P yes? is still alive? yes. One can just check number of servers and get a general idea about the population.

Saying SWTOR will die like Rift after 3 months would only make sense if RIFT actually died after 3 months. 

  Thunderballs

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/03
Posts: 382

11/29/11 8:18:29 AM#8

Rift has been heavily discounted.

It was dying from end of the first month 

They revived it in USA at least

Back to OP

 

Your "review" reads like someone that doesn't really understand how ot review an MMORPG.

 

There is nothing wrong in reviewing the early stages of a game in a positive way as long as you are not giving the reader the impressionit is a serious analysis of the main part of the games leveling process, end game or replayability and longevity prospects.

 

Getting "annoyed" is a very teenage emotion especially when combined with the fact you claim to have loved the story on the fist beta test you were involved in and now get "annoyed" at the mechanic.    Granted a lot of teenagers will play.

 

You want to just kill things but that was forgotten on your first beta test when your intial experiences levelling were good.

 

Did they change the races/character customisation so much that you accepted it in your first go at the game and then decided it "annoyed" you on a later beta test ?

 

 

 

 

 

Caveat Emptor

  metatronic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/05
Posts: 349

 
OP  11/29/11 8:20:04 AM#9
Originally posted by Supersoups
Originally posted by metatronic

{mod edit}.

Hahahaha...lol.... what has Google even got to do with subject. Is rift still P2P yes? is still alive? yes. One can just check number of servers and get a general idea about the population.

Saying SWTOR will die like Rift after 3 months would only make sense if RIFT actually died after 3 months. 

SWG had less than 30k players for the last 3-4 years... I would consider it dead. 4 years ago it was dieing off.. They propped that game up for as long as they could till I imagine Lucas pulled the I.P. Anyways, the point is, just because a game is p2p and still going does not mean its a thriving game. I'm not going to debate you on this as I don't have time to teach a kid how to add 1+1 in simple mmo economics.  Now the reason I said to google those terms was to get a concensus of what people are saying about rifts popultaion. Its pretty black and white man.. Anyways, I'm tired of dealing with 12 year olds on the internet..

  User Deleted
11/29/11 8:20:23 AM#10
Originally posted by metatronic

I was in the first beta weekend in sept and the subsequent ones that followed and my opinion of this game changed drastically by the second and now third beta weekend.

I'm kind of surprised by the negative feedback to be honest. Simply because my negative feelings about the game didn't come till after beta weekend two and up till that point I thought the game was amazing and fun.

Everyone will have different gripes about the game because we all have different things we like or dislike, and this game was really targetting 3 audiences.. The Kotor crowd, the mmo crowd, and the star wars fans crowd. Now you could be one or all three and yet everyone of us has different tastes in games, likes and dislikes.

After my september beta weekend I couldn't wait to play again and praised this game to my peers for weeks.. Then the second beta weekend came and I found myself staring at a character creator that flat out blew. The 4 character classes were not appealing anymore so I decided to make the same character Jedi Consular. I essentially ran through the same story line all over again and was bored to tears by level 10. The most annoying thing at this point was the quests cut scenes.. When all i wanted to do was get the quest, check the map for the area I needed to go and complete it and return, what I was dealing with was very annoying cut scenes and dialogue. I hated it... Space bar, space bar, space bar skip skip skip etc... By the end of weekend two I was agitated about the game and thought to myself, they wasted all that money on voice actors and story and it is just flat out annoying me. I seriously began to think about cancelling my pre order but held off. I figured I would play the game when it came out like a single player online game and maybe play 2 months at most.

Fast forward to beta weekend 3 which just ended.. I decided to play a totally different character and found myself back to liking the actual game again but still hating the single player quest cut scenes. Even on a new toon with a new story, I didn't care what the story was. I wanted to kill things and loot. That is why I play mmo's.. To create the best possible character I can with my game time.

So all in all, I'm still keeping my pre order just to play through it once on one character but I really don't see any longterm replayability for this game. Had they offered an ability to remove cut scenes/voice overs entirely and just allowed me to get the quest I would consider playing through a few characters for more than a few months but I really can't handle the pauses between the action.

Some final thoughts about the game:

I think after 3 months this game will start to die off like Rift did. It will just lose that new car smell and become more of an annoyance to gamers especially the more hardcore ones. I do think this game was made for the kotor series fans ( I am not a fan of btw, nor any bioware game) and the hardcore role players who want to be submersed into a story driven single player game with co op abilities so they can nerd it up with their friends. I think its a niche market and there isn't enough real mmo elements (or they were done piss poorly) to keep mmo gamers playing this game.

  • The instances killed immersion.
  • The crafting is weak and feeble.
  • The space combat is a joke and shouldn't even be in the game till its done right.
  • Not enough classes
  • The skill trees are garbage augmentations that offer miniscule mods.
  • instance pvp -- more fail
  • character creation is very weak
  • still lots of bugs and more than I saw in sept beta..
Everything just seems very generic and what this game is ultimately missing is Raph Koster and whoever designed the swg crafting system, and the JTL space..
 
I think they wasted entirely too much on voice overs, cut scenes and story while the rest of the game is suffering very badly.
 
Ill still play a month or two but don't count on my sub $$$ beyond that.

A fair personal opinion of the game. In no way am I personally attacking you, but seriously , you said I play mmo's to kill and loot?? Kind of take the whole "rpg" out out the mmorpg  which is what the game is. You are pretty much saying I don't care abuot stories, I care about rushing through to the end in the limited time you have.

So the question is, why even play mmorpg's? It's obviously not your "taste", perhaps a console game?

  bobfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1651

11/29/11 8:21:11 AM#11

I understand what the OP is saying, I had this issue on quests I repeated with another character, but first time through I enjoyed the story and cutscenes.

I think that if you aren't into the story in SWTOR, you're not going to get much out of it, because gameplay wise it isn't any different to what is already on the market. Other than the license the only thing that makes it stand apart is the story.

For me, who enjoyed KOTOR, enjoys Star Wars and is a massive MMO fan, it is perfect (though I would've preferred more action orientated combat).

 

Each to their own though, at least you aren't nerd raging about it :)

  User Deleted
11/29/11 8:23:37 AM#12
Originally posted by bobfish

I understand what the OP is saying, I had this issue on quests I repeated with another character, but first time through I enjoyed the story and cutscenes.

I think that if you aren't into the story in SWTOR, you're not going to get much out of it, because gameplay wise it isn't any different to what is already on the market. Other than the license the only thing that makes it stand apart is the story.

For me, who enjoyed KOTOR, enjoys Star Wars and is a massive MMO fan, it is perfect (though I would've preferred more action orientated combat).

 

Each to their own though, at least you aren't nerd raging about it :)

/Agree

  manolaren

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 60

11/29/11 8:24:40 AM#13

Tbh Rift is a very very good game but as it concerns subscribers its almost dead anymore. I hope with some expansion the situation will change but as it is now its almost dead...

As for SWTOR, i think that after 2-3 months the game will still have many subscribers but they will be SW fans and not MMO  ones. Pure MMO fans will be looking once again for the next best thing, because SWTOR is not.

  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

11/29/11 8:25:44 AM#14
Originally posted by metatronic
Originally posted by Supersoups
Originally posted by metatronic

Do a google search on " rift died , rift died out, rift losing players, rift died months ago"

I'm not wrong, and rarely am.. So get out of my thread and delete your asinine assumptions based on overall lack of awareness. You are wrong.

Hahahaha...lol.... what has Google even got to do with subject. Is rift still P2P yes? is still alive? yes. One can just check number of servers and get a general idea about the population.

Saying SWTOR will die like Rift after 3 months would only make sense if RIFT actually died after 3 months. 

SWG had less than 30k players for the last 3-4 years... I would consider it dead. 4 years ago it was dieing off.. They propped that game up for as long as they could till I imagine Lucas pulled the I.P. Anyways, the point is, just because a game is p2p and still going does not mean its a thriving game. I'm not going to debate you on this as I don't have time to teach a kid how to add 1+1 in simple mmo economics.  Now the reason I said to google those terms was to get a concensus of what people are saying about rifts popultaion. Its pretty black and white man.. Anyways, I'm tired of dealing with 12 year olds on the internet..

People always resort to insults when they can not back up their claim. Google any game and you will find similar things about it. Doesn't mean much or neither it is a proof that game is dead or dying.

Google WOW and see how many hate topics you get. if i go by that logic WOW would have died a long time ago. For someone who wants to teach me MMO economic you fail to understand that as long as servers are up and company is making enough profit to keep servers up, game is profitable. Not every company has deep pockets like Square Enix for instance to keep failed launches up and running for months.  And Rift has been more proftable to Trion than say duds like AOC, Warhammer in past have been to Funcom and Mythic. Not every MMO needs 10 million subs to be a success. Where did you learn economic by the way?

So nope it is not all black and white.

  Thunderballs

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/03
Posts: 382

11/29/11 8:28:48 AM#15
Originally posted by face30
Originally posted by bobfish

I understand what the OP is saying, I had this issue on quests I repeated with another character, but first time through I enjoyed the story and cutscenes.

I think that if you aren't into the story in SWTOR, you're not going to get much out of it, because gameplay wise it isn't any different to what is already on the market. Other than the license the only thing that makes it stand apart is the story.

For me, who enjoyed KOTOR, enjoys Star Wars and is a massive MMO fan, it is perfect (though I would've preferred more action orientated combat).

 

Each to their own though, at least you aren't nerd raging about it :)

/Agree

 

Right but under that scenario,

 

if SWTOR can get enough people to end game

 

and keep them there for a while,

 

people get attached to the game and their characters

 

and then as you say ,

 

they stay

 

because  

 

"gameplay wise it isn't any different to what is already on the market"

 

as long as Bioware manage the game and new content, bugs etc etc .... 

 

 

Caveat Emptor

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1019

11/29/11 8:28:52 AM#16

Doesn't every MMO drop a ton of players a month or 2 after launch?  Rift is still going strong. 

 

Did they lose alot?  Of course, there is a large crowd of MMO nomads who try every game that comes out and then leaves for various reasons: Its not innovative enough, its more of the same, the graphics are bad, going back to WoW....

 

 

 

 

  Thunderballs

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/03
Posts: 382

11/29/11 8:31:10 AM#17
Originally posted by Derros

Doesn't every MMO drop a ton of players a month or 2 after launch?  Rift is still going strong.  Did they lose alot?  Of course, there is a large crowd of MMO nomads who try every game that comes out and then leaves for various reasons: Its not innovative enough, its more of the same, the graphics are bad, going back to WoW....

 

 

Yes but RIFTS issue wasnt "mmo nomads" 

 

It has done the equivalent of a country opening its doors to immigrants from the poorest most under developed countries of the world to replace its own population that left for a better life elsewhere becasue they ran the country into the ground.

 

Nomads choose a nomadic life, Rifts initial player base were not mmo nomads but dedicated mmo players that were looking for somewhere to "stay".

 

 

Caveat Emptor

  fatboy21007

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 419

11/29/11 8:34:02 AM#18

if an mmo can hold 100 players to 100 million players its doing good. I know of several games, they have been runing for years now off of a small player bases of 50-200. Now if these mmos can runing this long, then rift is far from dead and SWTOR will live a long time.  MMO's only truly need enough to keep servers alive. I know of a few devs and mmo owners, who will if they have too fire off all their staff and work on the game MMO alone to keep the game alive. So in short, No mmo is dead until the servers are turned off. So dont sit here n claim you know something is dead cuz u can google.  Google dont mean squat when the game servers still kickin.

  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

11/29/11 8:34:16 AM#19

http://www.riftserverstatus.com/

Just check the amount of servers with high compared to low and tell me if this is what a dead or dying game looks like. So if SWTOR can maintain that many player after one year i would consider it as a success. So yes you saying SWTOR will die like Rift after 3 months is a complete nonsense.

  bobfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1651

11/29/11 8:34:26 AM#20
Originally posted by Thunderballs
Originally posted by face30
Originally posted by bobfish

I understand what the OP is saying, I had this issue on quests I repeated with another character, but first time through I enjoyed the story and cutscenes.

I think that if you aren't into the story in SWTOR, you're not going to get much out of it, because gameplay wise it isn't any different to what is already on the market. Other than the license the only thing that makes it stand apart is the story.

For me, who enjoyed KOTOR, enjoys Star Wars and is a massive MMO fan, it is perfect (though I would've preferred more action orientated combat).

 

Each to their own though, at least you aren't nerd raging about it :)

/Agree

 

Right but under that scenario,

 

if SWTOR can get enough people to end game

 

and keep them there for a while,

 

people get attached to the game and their characters

 

and then as you say ,

 

they stay

 

because  

 

"gameplay wise it isn't any different to what is already on the market"

 

as long as Bioware manage the game and new content, bugs etc etc .... 

 

 

Agreed, if people who aren't in the story stick around long enough to become invested in their characters and their friends they will stay longer.

But then I've never understood why someone would leave their high level invested character in MMO X for a new beginning in MMO Y, when MMO Y doesn't offer them anything they don't already get from MMO X. :)

If you're happy where you are and don't care about the story, then SWTOR has nothing to offer you really.

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