Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by dubyahite

SWTOR is NOT a single player game. It IS in fact the MMO that it claims to be.

I'm really tired of hearing this argument from people who haven't even tried it, or simply played the starter world by themselves and quit. 

This game encourages grouping in many ways, and even while playing it solo you are still in an open world where many other people are doing the same thing as you.

If you group up with people while doing your quest chains you are even rewarded with social points which can be used to buy items that are actually pretty cool and useful. Some of those social items are going to be needed for raiding later on as well. You will also find that you will level much faster when you group up.

 

Group content:

• 15 or so flashpoints
• 2 Operations (raids) at launch. More to come of course
• 3 instanced pvp warzones 
• 24/7 open world pvp zone with territory control like mechanics (with pvp rewards in the form of commendations)
• FFA PvP zone with rare crafting mats, rare killable vendors, and rewards.
• Heroic quests which require groups of 2+ and sometiems 4+ (the 4+ ones are sometimes actually quite difficult and resemble mini dungeons) There are several of these on EACH planet. I find I always have one in my quest log that I can do AND they are repeatable daily. 
• Galactic Trade Network (auction house, player economy, not really group content, but many people are required to make it work, otherwise it would just be a vendor)
• EVERY conversation can become a group conversation in a party that gives social points that are ONLY attainable through group conversations. 
• Many PvE world raid bosses scattered throughout the game
• Multiplayer ships that allow you to transport your entire party from planet to planet.

 

I'm sure I missed some stuff, but you get the idea.  This is an MMO in the strictest definition and it is definitely not a single player game or some lobby based game like Guild Wars 1. 

YEa i guess it is an MMO as you can group up with many people and do different things.. but i havea feeling i could play all the way through the game without having to group once.. it just feels more liek a single player with a co-op bit added on.

 

Instead of doing an MMO they should have done another singleplayer game with a multiplayer option.. that way they could have actually made the graphics look like a 2011 game and also made the story better :)

 

 

How dare you talk sense when EA is being discussed in terms of MMORPGS?!

But really that'd have been a great idea. I have a feeling Mass Effect 3 will "feel" better than SWTOR and they're basically going to do that.

Grouping up with a friend or two is far more enjoyable and you go through class content faster. I played through each starter world solo, as well as Dromund Kaas (other than some heroics). This last day, I grouped up with my brother, and we played through the SIth starting world, as a group the entire time. We flew through mobs and didn't have to retrack with companions for Heroics (or try and get a group via general chat :P). We would split paths for the main character missions, and then merge back as a team afterwards. We got through that world incredibly fast, and I helped him finish his Inquisitor class quest boss, since I was extra fast and obtained my lightsaber quickly.

It rocked, just like the flashpoints do when the team is decent.

Playing the game solo is nice if you don't want someone else rolling on your chat choices :D

Originally posted by Sideras

The way I see it is, since the singleplayer is the only thing good about it they might as well just do KoTOR 3. There is absolutely NOTHING new or fresh with SWTOR. It is exactly like WoW with a bit of convinient tweaks and a real story with dialogues.

I simply can't fucking respect that, the same reason why I don't respect Call of Duty. But they'll keep doing it, because morons like you keep buying the shit.

That is such a narrow view of this game. The group content are some of the best moments in this game and the most fun I've had.

The flashpoints are fun as crap. After the first couple there are some genuinely challenging boss mechanics as well. The story elements to the flashpoints are a blast, I think. Way better than some lifeles boring dungeon that every other mmo has.

The 4+ heroic quests can sometimes be quite challenging as well. On balmorra, I believe, there is an instanced one that's like a mini dungeon, with multiple bosses and it is fun as hell for a simple group quest. 

Running quests with a friend where we both get to participate in the conversations is extremely fun in my opinion. 

That's the other thing you're missing, all of the "single player" content is also multiplayer! You aren't penalized for being in a group, you are actually rewarded with social points. You also are rewarded with really really fast questing by completing all the quests faster. The leveling goes way faster when you do this, trust me. 

OH, and thanks for calling us morons. That really made your point for you. Personal attacks betray your weak argument. 

Originally posted by PukeBucket

 

How dare you talk sense when EA is being discussed in terms of MMORPGS?!

But really that'd have been a great idea. I have a feeling Mass Effect 3 will "feel" better than SWTOR and they're basically going to do that.

Yep, that is why I am not going to play SW:TOR. Dont see the point in playing a hybrid single player MMORPG which wont be as good as Mass Effect 3. Will just wait for Mass Effect 3 and on top not paying a monthly sub for it.

This is the most pointless MMORPG ever, imo.

Originally posted by dubyahite

That's the other thing you're missing, all of the "single player" content is also multiplayer! You aren't penalized for being in a group, you are actually rewarded with social points. You also are rewarded with really really fast questing by completing all the quests faster. The leveling goes way faster when you do this, trust me. 

 

 

And actually theres a mechanic in that game that gives you an XP boost and better loot when grouped (Or so it said on a loading screen during play.).

Originally posted by Angelfire

Originally posted by dubyahite

That's the other thing you're missing, all of the "single player" content is also multiplayer! You aren't penalized for being in a group, you are actually rewarded with social points. You also are rewarded with really really fast questing by completing all the quests faster. The leveling goes way faster when you do this, trust me. 

 

 

 

And actually theres a mechanic in that game that gives you an XP boost and better loot when grouped (Or so it said on a loading screen during play.).

Yeah! I'm pretty sure that's true. Group questing levels you up super fast. Even if it didn't reward you extra XP, you still get quests done really fast and gain XP at a really good rate. I have done this for a lot of my play time and it just rocked. 

The people that complain that this is a single player game, probably never even tried to group while questing!

I blame other themepark mmos, in wow or rift, it is a hinderance to try to group up and have it be beneficial to both people while doing quests. It's just easier to solo. You have to worry about who's on what quests and its a real drag to catch people up.

I think they have that mentality built into their brains from other games, but it is simply not the same here at all. This game encourages and rewards grouping in so many ways.

For those that are playing it solo you have noone to blame but yourself. This game provides one of the most enjoyable group experiences in an mmo while questing. If you don't group at every chance you get, well, you are simply playing this game wrong.

I just can't get over this argument. "This game sucks, it's like 90% single player and 10% mmo."  Well how did you play the game? If you soloed the whole time, then guess what, you're doing grouping wrong. 

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by Angelfire

Originally posted by dubyahite

That's the other thing you're missing, all of the "single player" content is also multiplayer! You aren't penalized for being in a group, you are actually rewarded with social points. You also are rewarded with really really fast questing by completing all the quests faster. The leveling goes way faster when you do this, trust me. 

 

 

 

And actually theres a mechanic in that game that gives you an XP boost and better loot when grouped (Or so it said on a loading screen during play.).

Yeah! I'm pretty sure that's true. Group questing levels you up super fast. Even if it didn't reward you extra XP, you still get quests done really fast and gain XP at a really good rate. I have done this for a lot of my play time and it just rocked. 

 

The people that complain that this is a single player game, probably never even tried to group while questing!

 

I blame other themepark mmos, in wow or rift, it is a hinderance to try to group up and have it be beneficial to both people while doing quests. It's just easier to solo. You have to worry about who's on what quests and its a real drag to catch people up.

 

I think they have that mentality built into their brains from other games, but it is simply not the same here at all. This game encourages and rewards grouping in so many ways.

 

For those that are playing it solo you have noone to blame but yourself. This game provides one of the most enjoyable group experiences in an mmo while questing. If you don't group at every chance you get, well, you are simply playing this game wrong.

 

I just can't get over this argument. "This game sucks, it's like 90% single player and 10% mmo."  Well how did you play the game? If you soloed the whole time, then guess what, you're doing grouping wrong. 

You are assuming that there are people to group with. In my experience with MMOs, if soloing is easy to do, then people will be generally soloing. If soloing is hard then they will be grouping.

From what I have heard, soloing in this game is very easy so then most people will be soloing and there wont be many to group with. Besides, the focus on this game is the single player storyline which makes no sense to group doing anyway so people are right when they say this game is mainly a single player game, it is.

Originally posted by dubyahite

SWTOR is NOT a single player game. It IS in fact the MMO that it claims to be.

I'm really tired of hearing this argument from people who haven't even tried it, or simply played the starter world by themselves and quit. 

This game encourages grouping in many ways, and even while playing it solo you are still in an open world where many other people are doing the same thing as you.

If you group up with people while doing your quest chains you are even rewarded with social points which can be used to buy items that are actually pretty cool and useful. Some of those social items are going to be needed for raiding later on as well. You will also find that you will level much faster when you group up.

 

Group content:

• 15 or so flashpoints
• 2 Operations (raids) at launch. More to come of course
• 3 instanced pvp warzones 
• 24/7 open world pvp zone with territory control like mechanics (with pvp rewards in the form of commendations)
• FFA PvP zone with rare crafting mats, rare killable vendors, and rewards.
• Heroic quests which require groups of 2+ and sometiems 4+ (the 4+ ones are sometimes actually quite difficult and resemble mini dungeons) There are several of these on EACH planet. I find I always have one in my quest log that I can do AND they are repeatable daily. 
• Galactic Trade Network (auction house, player economy, not really group content, but many people are required to make it work, otherwise it would just be a vendor)
• EVERY conversation can become a group conversation in a party that gives social points that are ONLY attainable through group conversations. 
• Many PvE world raid bosses scattered throughout the game
• Multiplayer ships that allow you to transport your entire party from planet to planet.

 

I'm sure I missed some stuff, but you get the idea.  This is an MMO in the strictest definition and it is definitely not a single player game or some lobby based game like Guild Wars 1. 

None the less i still only expect the game to bring alot of people between 1-3 months of entertainment before they move on,  BioWare have fuckedup majorly with one thing, Bounty Hunters not being able to do what their lore actually is all about, hunt other people for creds, i mean you should be able to hunt players and get paid to do it.

So many things missing from the game that i feel its not even anywhere near complete, and ive been a general beta tester for quite a while now, they released a new build here close to this weekend test, this build was more fuckedup than previous builds and had more bugs than previous one had.

It feels almost like Rift, it had a thrill in the start but became boring before my first month was up.

Lets take the Agent / Smuggler class, how bloddy useless is it that you have to spend 1-2 seconds to enter a cover mode before you can use your shots, that thing becomes annoying before you even hit level 15, 2 classes i definitly wouldn't touch with a stick.

Oh yea and Space Battles is arcade mode, yay how fun, not............

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by Angelfire

Originally posted by dubyahite

 

 

You are assuming that there are people to group with. In my experience with MMOs, if soloing is easy to do, then people will be generally soloing. If soloing is hard then they will be grouping.

From what I have heard, soloing in this game is very easy so then most people will be soloing and there wont be many to group with. Besides, the focus on this game is the single player storyline which makes no sense to group doing anyway so people are right when they say this game is mainly a single player game, it is.

True for most MMOs. Of course, most to tell you a story in many cinematic scenes. Additionally, they don't let you pick some of the reactions the "main charactor" has either.

I don't think many folks will be soloing the HEROIC quests in TOR. At least if they try them when they are level appropriate. Sure a player could go back to them after they are 3 or 4 or 5 levels over the quest level, but what's the point.

This said, my wife and I were in this weekend's test with her playing a Sith Warrior and me a Sith Inquisitor. To answer you question the point in grouping lets me see much of her class' story, and participate in it to a degree, as well as her in mine. It's like watching a movie where she and I both for the most part control to actors.

Launch will mean that we get to essentially have movie night for an hour or two every night without having to find a baby sitter OR having to sit in a theatre dealing with other people's ill-mannered teenagers on their cellphones.

Win-win.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by Angelfire

Originally posted by dubyahite

That's the other thing you're missing, all of the "single player" content is also multiplayer! You aren't penalized for being in a group, you are actually rewarded with social points. You also are rewarded with really really fast questing by completing all the quests faster. The leveling goes way faster when you do this, trust me. 

 

 

 

And actually theres a mechanic in that game that gives you an XP boost and better loot when grouped (Or so it said on a loading screen during play.).

Yeah! I'm pretty sure that's true. Group questing levels you up super fast. Even if it didn't reward you extra XP, you still get quests done really fast and gain XP at a really good rate. I have done this for a lot of my play time and it just rocked. 

 

The people that complain that this is a single player game, probably never even tried to group while questing!

 

I blame other themepark mmos, in wow or rift, it is a hinderance to try to group up and have it be beneficial to both people while doing quests. It's just easier to solo. You have to worry about who's on what quests and its a real drag to catch people up.

 

I think they have that mentality built into their brains from other games, but it is simply not the same here at all. This game encourages and rewards grouping in so many ways.

 

For those that are playing it solo you have noone to blame but yourself. This game provides one of the most enjoyable group experiences in an mmo while questing. If you don't group at every chance you get, well, you are simply playing this game wrong.

 

I just can't get over this argument. "This game sucks, it's like 90% single player and 10% mmo."  Well how did you play the game? If you soloed the whole time, then guess what, you're doing grouping wrong. 

You are assuming that there are people to group with. In my experience with MMOs, if soloing is easy to do, then people will be generally soloing. If soloing is hard then they will be grouping.

From what I have heard, soloing in this game is very easy so then most people will be soloing and there wont be many to group with. Besides, the focus on this game is the single player storyline which makes no sense to group doing anyway so people are right when they say this game is mainly a single player game, it is.

Just because something is easy doesn't mean it's the best way. As I have stated multiple times you are more greatly rewarded for grouping in this game than you are for playing solo.

Join a guild, make some friends, whatever. It's not hard to find people to group with in this game.  The constant offering of flashpoints and heroic quests provide ample opportunity to meet people. There are soooo many heroic quests and every time I play (even when the servers were low pop earlier in beta) there are ALWAYS people looking for groups for heroics. Always. They constantly spam chat with it.  

If you can't find people to group with in this game, then you must be trying pretty hard not to. 

As far as it "making no sense to group for the storyline" you're wrong. It makes lots of sense, trust me I've done it. It is a ton of fun. The storyline IS NOT just a single player affair. All of the quests are multiplayer.

If you are smart, and want to level faster, get better rewards, get social points (through the only means possible), tackle all of the content (including heroic quests, world bosses, flashpoints, etc) then you will group up with a friend or guildie when this game comes out. That is what I am doing and I'll be blowing past soloers in levels while they sit and complain about a single player game.

If you don't have any friends that are going to play this game then freaking make some. The game can't socialize for you. It can't make friends for you. It's just a game. 

If you don't know how to socialize and interact with people, then why are you complaining that the game is single player? Maybe if you actually tried to play it as a multiplayer game you would be surprised at how much fun it is as a multiplayer game.

I will never understand this single player complaint. If you shut yourself off from the world and play the game in a solo fashion, then you have no right to complain about it.

Sigh. 

Originally posted by SQTO

yea i dont understand why people even say that is a single player game and not a mmo.  in all the different threads around the net i have yet to see one of these people explain why they think it is not an mmo.

I am sure alot of people have explained but most do not listen to what we are saying.

I played 4 different characters over the weekend, solo'd 99% of the time only grouping with my wife twice and you know what ?

It may be blasphemy but I damn well enjoyed myself :), I can play this game as a single player game why not ?? it is fun, the story is imersive and I do not have to deal with the idiots.

First thing I did on SWTOR was turn off chat.

"why play a mmo if you do not want to group?? go play Kotor"

Why should I? I play mmo's not to "haveto" group but to choose when and who I group with, it is a social experience because I am on Teamspeak with friends who also see that SWTOR can be played solo and enjoyed :)

SWTOR while not at deep as mass effect storywise is streets ahead of most solo games limp 10 hour campaign and weak ass storyline.

So please let me play it how I want and you play it how you want.

Additional: I am a roleplayer and enjoy the stories in these games, worst thing I ever did in City of heroes was group up, yes it levelled me fast I think I got my char to 50 in less than a week but I missed out on every bit of lore and the experience of exploring every part of the game.

That is one of the biggest reasons to solo even if I have to wait till I am higher level to do heroics, while solo I can explore slowly, do missions at a pace that allows me to experience every nuance of story and atmosphere, you make think your better because you *blow* past my level but I will be getting every moment of value and fun out of every bit of work bioware put into this game.

Originally posted by calranthe

Originally posted by SQTO

yea i dont understand why people even say that is a single player game and not a mmo.  in all the different threads around the net i have yet to see one of these people explain why they think it is not an mmo.

I am sure alot of people have explained but most do not listen to what we are saying.

I played 4 different characters over the weekend, solo'd 99% of the time only grouping with my wife twice and you know what ?

It may be blasphemy but I damn well enjoyed myself :), I can play this game as a single player game why not ?? it is fun, the story is imersive and I do not have to deal with the idiots.

First thing I did on SWTOR was turn off chat.

"why play a mmo if you do not want to group?? go play Kotor"

Why should I? I play mmo's not to "haveto" group but to choose when and who I group with, it is a social experience because I am on Teamspeak with friends who also see that SWTOR can be played solo and enjoyed :)

 

SWTOR while not at deep as mass effect storywise is streets ahead of most solo games limp 10 hour campaign and weak ass storyline.

So please let me play it how I want and you play it how you want.

:)

So that is your play style because like to play solo. fair enough. But that doesn't mean that SWTOR is a single player game. if it was why would Bioware implement bonus xp, social points (which you only get when teaming up) and better drops?

I heard a lot of people complaining during beta that leveling really slows down after lvl 20. Well, who is forcing you to play solo? group up and level faster. It is really not hard to find groups because everyone likes bonus xp and social points.

It's more of a group game than WOW is now, where everything outside of instances can be very easily soloed.  The group dialog works extremely well too.

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by calranthe

Originally posted by SQTO

yea i dont understand why people even say that is a single player game and not a mmo.  in all the different threads around the net i have yet to see one of these people explain why they think it is not an mmo.

I am sure alot of people have explained but most do not listen to what we are saying.

I played 4 different characters over the weekend, solo'd 99% of the time only grouping with my wife twice and you know what ?

It may be blasphemy but I damn well enjoyed myself :), I can play this game as a single player game why not ?? it is fun, the story is imersive and I do not have to deal with the idiots.

First thing I did on SWTOR was turn off chat.

"why play a mmo if you do not want to group?? go play Kotor"

Why should I? I play mmo's not to "haveto" group but to choose when and who I group with, it is a social experience because I am on Teamspeak with friends who also see that SWTOR can be played solo and enjoyed :)

 

SWTOR while not at deep as mass effect storywise is streets ahead of most solo games limp 10 hour campaign and weak ass storyline.

So please let me play it how I want and you play it how you want.

:)

So that is your play style because like to play solo. fair enough. But that doesn't mean that SWTOR is a single player game. if it was why would Bioware implement bonus xp, social points (which you only get when teaming up) and better drops?

I heard a lot of people complaining during beta that leveling really slows down after lvl 20. Well, who is forcing you to play solo? group up and level faster. It is really not hard to find groups because everyone likes bonus xp and social points.

What he said.  The purpose of this thread and discussion is not to convince you that you shouldn't play it solo if that's what you like. that is totally an option from the start. Like you said, you'll miss some content for a while, but you gotta do what is most fun for you.

The reason I made this thread and continue to post here still is because that is one of the biggest claims going around these forums from detractors. They claim that "it is a single player game with a few mmo elements tacked on after the fact," when that is simply not true.

BOTH styles of gameplay are heavily supported by this game. My point is that it doesn't stop being an MMO just because you are playing solo. It is still a multiplayer game, and there are other people around you affecting your gameplay while playing solo. 

You bet your butt the others affect u i dont know how many times ive taken out a group of mobs in front og quest objective only to have it stolen from me . Then i had to clear area again to get item . 

Thats just like any mmo though ive ever played sure i solod to 16 so what. i wanted to just test some things out and since we only had one computer at gfs brothers thats how i played it . when it goes live we will play together and group all the time 

U can group from level 1 to 50 if u choose and the heroic quests the higher u go the more u actually need to group to get them done. I tried personal challenge on my own at level 13 and got swatted like a fly . I died so quick it wasnt funny

Yea to all the haters who wont stop telling us it kotor3 with multiplayer i say bs this is an mmo in every sense of the word from the time u start to the time u hit end game. 

Originally posted by Supersoups

Soon someone will come in with gnashing teeths and ignore all above and tell OP how he is wrong and SWTOR is a single player MMO.

You are not a earthling , You are infact a lifeform from a different planet. Science is yet to have gainned clear evidence and understanding of life on earth, its origins, and development.

Reduco ad absurdium (i was gonna call you a green giant and list the Fake reasons why you could infact be a green giant).

Typing out stuff doesn't make you correct.

No one is claiming that SWTOR doesn't allow MMO play. What they are Claiming is that it doesn't provide good MMO play. And that its strong suit is more similar to multiplayer games.

Which in fact is true. Questing can be done as a group but it takes FOREVER if you don't skip everything. Like making XenoSaga2 looks like a super action packed game style (cutscenes anyone?). Otherwise stated 4 man groups questing = less playing than watching quests. This is TRUE (look at that)

Flashpoints are multiplayer for sure... mmo sure you can group with mutiple people its techinically mmo but doesn't feel that way. I mean what is it 8 + FP in one Room/lobby.

In all reality the game is an mmo. But it FEELS like a multiplayer game that you play with your friends (boarderlands, dead island, etc.)

Its mmo light, i think alot of it has to do with how chopped up the world is and how small it is.

It doesn't feel expansive, Its better with a single friend or solo, much of the content is insta warping and lobbies/queues. And for these and other reason i feel people condense these feelings and state its more single player then mmo.

Originally posted by dubyahite

BOTH styles of gameplay are heavily supported by this game. My point is that it doesn't stop being an MMO just because you are playing solo. It is still a multiplayer game, and there are other people around you affecting your gameplay while playing solo. 

Do you see Guildwars (1) as an MMO?

Do you see Hellgate London/Global as an MMO?

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by dubyahite

BOTH styles of gameplay are heavily supported by this game. My point is that it doesn't stop being an MMO just because you are playing solo. It is still a multiplayer game, and there are other people around you affecting your gameplay while playing solo. 

 

Do you see Guildwars (1) as an MMO?

Do you see Hellgate London/Global as an MMO?

Anenanet says GW is anot an mmo (THAT WOULD EB THE GAMES MAKERS).

Hellgate was an mmo in the same way SWTOR is an mmo with its flashpoints, maybe more than swtors flashpoints (see as their location and accesabilty are questionable).

But HG:l is questionable on skirting a hybrid mmo/multiplayer game. look it up Both of these games fall into the its kinda an mmo but not really.

Where as SWTOR is 100% an mmo, that feels much like a multiplayer game.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by dubyahite

BOTH styles of gameplay are heavily supported by this game. My point is that it doesn't stop being an MMO just because you are playing solo. It is still a multiplayer game, and there are other people around you affecting your gameplay while playing solo. 

 

Do you see Guildwars (1) as an MMO?

Do you see Hellgate London/Global as an MMO?

There is not even a comparison between SWTOR and these game.

Originally posted by Plasmicredx

It doesn't matter how much group content an MMORPG has. If you can play through to max level without wanting or needing to group because leveling solo is faster or the same as leveling with a group (or even times when grouping can even hinder a group's leveling), then that game fails in that perspective to people who want the game to encourage grouping. WoW has this problem. No group EXP bonuses are why some of my oldschool friends bought and installed WoW, then uninstalled when they saw all players ever did was singleplayer 90% of their way to max level and grouping just hindered the experience.

Same thing happened in Dark Age of Camelot in levels 1 - 5 back when it still had the awesome ability to start as a base class and transform into a sub class at 5. People always refused to group until like around 7-10 after people figured out it's faster to solo those levels. Often times I would tell people to group anyways because it's more fun that way.

I haven't played Star Wars:TOR so I don't know if the developers have just copied WoW's exp system or not, but if it doesn't resolve this, then it's the same. That's why I have turned fully into a "virtual worldist" over the years even though in the past when I played Dark Age of Camelot, I saw a need for virtual worlds like that to become more faster paced and more focused on convenience than on realism. Now that MMORPGs have gone full opposites, I'm ready for them to turn full circle to try and find that perfect balance once again between the two.

RIFT is a good example of another theme park that has the same problem going for it. I leveled to max in that game without needing any help at all and like within the first month of that game coming out except for when rifts would invade. The rest was just a gear grind. In a good MMO, you WANT to group with others (because it's faster than soloing, but you don't have to).

As a side note, a little unrelated to the rest of my post: There are a lot of people that would rather play a high quality 4 player coop game than an instanced MMORPG with 4 player coop in it. Dark Age of Camelot was cool because everyone from your realm could go into your same dungeon and you could interact with each other by helping each other or even attempting to wipe one another. That's what made it different from WoW. You had the choice to be good or evil. Games have become too soft and try to rid virtual worlds of those choices. A family game like World of Warcraft and Star Wars: TOR should probably do that for kid's sakes, but I miss when MMORPGs were for adults. Tempting you with good and evil real choices. Can you handle it. Not hide them from the kids.

Anyways, you should be able to see why I am on that side. Though I do understand why SW:TOR has to be this way.

this this this this THIS THIS THIS  this this this.

This is perfect , this is a perfect post.

I don't mind the existance of insatnces .. i mind the lack of open world dungeons. Of games that clearly said .. with that class or that spec you are not soloing 3 mobs, infact if you take 5 melee hits your dead. But that guy over there with all that armor on he can take a ton of hits,, but he doesn't hit too good., why not get together. He will take the hit and you'll deal the damage out.  Wait what is that over there.. no damage and no tank, but has thing magic that makes my wounds disapear . no way , we could like kill tons of stuff real fast like. 

That is how you make an mmo. I don't mind hybrid classes etc. They should work 1/2 and 1/2 not 1/2 or 1/2.  So if im a hybrid when i dps stuff it should do less damage 30% why not, but in return that 30% less damage should be made up in life drains with the damage, or buffs that are worth to the group that lack of dps, or cc , or etc.  That 30% should be almost passive , so maybe i heal 30% less but every heal puts a 20% damage buff on the taregt 10s, etc. Make up for it.  Create a game where grouping is > than solo.  After all that is the point of an mmo. Still allow someone to solo, but don't make solo the fast track to the top, which it 100% is in swtor. PS Flashpoints give awful exp.