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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Why did they not just make KOTOR 3?

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29 posts found
  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

 
OP  11/28/11 7:13:27 PM#1

There goal seemed to be kotor in an MMO setting. The thing that makes kotor and mass effect and all those other bioware games memerable and fun is your actions effecting the world. In this game no matter what you do it will only effect in essense your little bubble but no real effect on anything else. I could choose to kill a spice smuggler as opposed to helping him but hey guess what he is still well and alive a minute later no matter what i choose to do. Nothing you really do has an overall effect to the outside world. Now you say well it's a MMO how can they have your games story's not interact and effect other peoples while still effecting the world.. in most ways you cannot which is why i think they made a huge mistake in creating a game like this to begin with and not just another single player game.

Another issue is they made the game so lifeless you wouldn't even be able to tell if anything you did had any reaction on anyone or anything anyway. Nothing in any of the towns or cities I have been in feel like they are living breathing entities which completely destroys the sort of immersion story telling games try to instil on the player. How can you enjoy a story with options when your options really don't matter in the large scheme of things.

I'm not going to go over all the other flaws since most people have tons of posts on them already but one thing that really annoys me is enemy AI. MMO's have never had good enemy AI and aside from instances most don't really have any aside from auto attack and one or two skills but when you play a smuggler and duck for cover behind a two foot rock while an enemy sits two feet from you blasting the rock instead of going around it to shoot you there are issues. This day in age I don't think it's to much to ask from a AAA release to at least have the simplest of enemy AI outside of instances.

KOTOR 3 could have been something amazing, i suppose the developers wanted to try something new or just got greedy of the MMO explosion either way i really feel the lasting appeal for this game will fizzle out a lot faster than most other highly anticipated games which is very sad cause I have been waiting years for a new star wars MMO but this one really wasn't what I was hoping for.

 

Everything of course is just my opinion but would love to here peoples thoughts on this topic

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/28/11 7:17:24 PM#2

I agree.  This is the first MMO that makes me think, damn, if only this were a single player game!  The MMO elements just ruin it and hogged way too much of their development resources.  As a SP game, it could have been so much more.

 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  nomss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/21/10
Posts: 1488

11/28/11 7:22:18 PM#3

I do not understand you people. If you want to a game that you can solo and just enjoy the story there is nothing stoping you from doing that.

Is the sub fee that is bothering you OP?

Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

 
OP  11/28/11 7:28:55 PM#4
Originally posted by nomss

I do not understand you people. If you want to a game that you can solo and just enjoy the story there is nothing stoping you from doing that.

Is the sub fee that is bothering you OP?

it's not the sub fee its the fact that if they went full single player it could of been another classic like the first two. But now we basically have a watered down single player game with MMO elements. I love everything star wars but would of much rather of had a galaxies 2 MMO with updated graphics and gameplay than what this game delivers.. Why have choices if they really don't matter just seems silly when you look at the big picture.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Zenjinx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/11
Posts: 344

11/28/11 7:29:16 PM#5

I respect your opinion, but I disagree for the most part.

The effecting the whole world concept, while nice in theory, is impractical in an MMO. If you change the world and alter something in a way that someone else cannot enjoy the previous content, it destroys that persons "fun". This is the extreme of course. It works fine in a single player game because it is only your world that is altered.

Some say phasing is an answer to this, but then grouping with people at different steps in their personal phase, becomes an issue.

I think this game is a good evolution on the KOTOR series, but I also think it is a good evolution as a MMORPG in general.

  DeserttFoxx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/11/04
Posts: 2329

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11/28/11 7:34:14 PM#6

Nonsense, if they made kotor 3 it wouldnt have anywhere near the depth of this game, do you think you could play 8 full story lines with kotor 3? Have a chance to interact with thousands of other people?

 

The fact of the matter is this, you can play the game on 8 different characters and experience 8 very fufiling stories, and you can do it all on your own. There is zero forced grouping when it comes to the main story line, absolutely none, you can go through the entire game not not speak to a single other person.

 

This complaint that they shouldve just done kotor 3 is the most asinine thing ive read on the swtor subject, the truth of the matter is, this is better, MMOs are the future, and i assure you, bioware wont be making another single player game for a long time to come. They want their game to be a living entity, and that is something you cannot achieve with a single player title.

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  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

11/28/11 7:34:22 PM#7
Originally posted by sanosukex

it's not the sub fee its the fact that if they went full single player it could of been another classic like the first two. But now we basically have a watered down single player game with MMO elements. I love everything star wars but would of much rather of had a galaxies 2 MMO with updated graphics and gameplay than what this game delivers.. Why have choices if they really don't matter just seems silly when you look at the big picture.

Ah! The truth comes out.

OP, they never said they were making SWG 2. SWG 1 failed, nobody wants to make a new SWG. It is what they said it would be...KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

 
OP  11/28/11 7:34:26 PM#8
Originally posted by Zenjinx

I respect your opinion, but I disagree for the most part.

The effecting the whole world concept, while nice in theory, is impractical in an MMO. If you change the world and alter something in a way that someone else cannot enjoy the previous content, it destroys that persons "fun". This is the extreme of course. It works fine in a single player game because it is only your world that is altered.

Some say phasing is an answer to this, but then grouping with people at different steps in their personal phase, becomes an issue.

I think this game is a good evolution on the KOTOR series, but I also think it is a good evolution as a MMORPG in general.

it really just doesn't seem to be implemented very well. For instance they could allow events to occur to flag your character so entire towns of npcs would react a certain way towards your character much like you see in the other kotor games and fable and such. The issue is outside the quests givers theres really nothing that reacts or is alive out there.. and I really think thats one of the main issues with the game

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

 
OP  11/28/11 7:40:51 PM#9
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by sanosukex

it's not the sub fee its the fact that if they went full single player it could of been another classic like the first two. But now we basically have a watered down single player game with MMO elements. I love everything star wars but would of much rather of had a galaxies 2 MMO with updated graphics and gameplay than what this game delivers.. Why have choices if they really don't matter just seems silly when you look at the big picture.

Ah! The truth comes out.

OP, they never said they were making SWG 2. SWG 1 failed, nobody wants to make a new SWG. It is what they said it would be...KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

swg's in many ways did fail but in many was a success it made it through several expansions and many years either way I get that's not what this game is about and not what they wanted all I'm saying is how this game was implemented me personally would of rather had a nice single player kotor 3 and a star wars MMO where I could pick from dozens of races be anything I wanted to be. Galaxies had its issues but pre CU it had a great open skill system and you had a ton of options.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Zenjinx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/11
Posts: 344

11/28/11 7:42:02 PM#10
Originally posted by sanosukex

it really just doesn't seem to be implemented very well. For instance they could allow events to occur to flag your character so entire towns of npcs would react a certain way towards your character much like you see in the other kotor games and fable and such. The issue is outside the quests givers theres really nothing that reacts or is alive out there.. and I really think thats one of the main issues with the game

I see what you are saying. That type of game system exists already (ala SWG, and others), in the form of factional awareness of NPCs versus flagged/unflagged players, dependent upon the like / dislike value you hold with a given faction. That type of world changing has far less impact on other players and usually works well.

I haven't encountered that system in SWTOR, perhaps someone else could comment on it.

  8BitAvatar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/11
Posts: 203

11/28/11 7:43:10 PM#11

Why?

$$$

  77lolmac77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 498

11/28/11 7:48:33 PM#12
Because they're (EA/ Bioware) going to make more money from ToR box sales alone than they probably made from Kotor 1 & 2 combined. I have based this on absolutely nothing but it certainly seems plausible.
  sanosukex

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 1857

 
OP  11/28/11 7:48:43 PM#13
Originally posted by 8BitAvatar

Why?

$$$

unfortunatley yes that is very true.. although the amount of money put into the game(supposedly) you would think something more would have come of it.. guess it really was all on voice actors, script writers, and advertising...

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8591

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

11/28/11 9:33:43 PM#14

Strange...

 

I feel exactly the opposite as the OP. I am so happy i finally can play a true RPG game together with my friends online. And join a community, test the character i build in PvP, roleplay it with others. Really ever since i played EQ, i could not play single player MMO's anymore because of the missing community part and the fact that i discover that gaming is a social thing in which you either play together with others or play against others.

Espescially the flashpoints prove the makers of this game right to take the IP multi player.

On top of that single player PC games gert hacked, i know 7 people playing Skyrim right now in real life on PC and only one bought the box. Multi player and online is the way to go if you want to sell PC games.

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  User Deleted
11/28/11 9:38:41 PM#15

let me just say this;

if they had made KOTOR 3, it would have cost the SAME price for the initial box, and had 1/100th of the content.

You would have STILL bitched about the game.

And after you beat it, you would come back to this site complaining that there were no new MMOs to play.

  Tyvolus1

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/08
Posts: 858

11/28/11 9:55:43 PM#16
Originally posted by sanosukex

There goal seemed to be kotor in an MMO setting. The thing that makes kotor and mass effect and all those other bioware games memerable and fun is your actions effecting the world. In this game no matter what you do it will only effect in essense your little bubble but no real effect on anything else. I could choose to kill a spice smuggler as opposed to helping him but hey guess what he is still well and alive a minute later no matter what i choose to do. Nothing you really do has an overall effect to the outside world. Now you say well it's a MMO how can they have your games story's not interact and effect other peoples while still effecting the world.. in most ways you cannot which is why i think they made a huge mistake in creating a game like this to begin with and not just another single player game.

Another issue is they made the game so lifeless you wouldn't even be able to tell if anything you did had any reaction on anyone or anything anyway. Nothing in any of the towns or cities I have been in feel like they are living breathing entities which completely destroys the sort of immersion story telling games try to instil on the player. How can you enjoy a story with options when your options really don't matter in the large scheme of things.

I'm not going to go over all the other flaws since most people have tons of posts on them already but one thing that really annoys me is enemy AI. MMO's have never had good enemy AI and aside from instances most don't really have any aside from auto attack and one or two skills but when you play a smuggler and duck for cover behind a two foot rock while an enemy sits two feet from you blasting the rock instead of going around it to shoot you there are issues. This day in age I don't think it's to much to ask from a AAA release to at least have the simplest of enemy AI outside of instances.

KOTOR 3 could have been something amazing, i suppose the developers wanted to try something new or just got greedy of the MMO explosion either way i really feel the lasting appeal for this game will fizzle out a lot faster than most other highly anticipated games which is very sad cause I have been waiting years for a new star wars MMO but this one really wasn't what I was hoping for.

 

Everything of course is just my opinion but would love to here peoples thoughts on this topic

 they figured out a way to do something similar and charge $15 month for it.

Tyvolus Xfire Miniprofile
  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

11/28/11 9:57:26 PM#17

I thought they did make KoTOR 3, as well as 4, 5, 6.....

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  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8591

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

11/28/11 9:59:04 PM#18
Originally posted by dubyahite

I thought they did make KoTOR 3, as well as 4, 5, 6.....

Actually they made 8 KoTOR's in a single box. and added multi player options too it on top of that.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/28/11 10:06:10 PM#19
Originally posted by sanosukex
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by sanosukex

it's not the sub fee its the fact that if they went full single player it could of been another classic like the first two. But now we basically have a watered down single player game with MMO elements. I love everything star wars but would of much rather of had a galaxies 2 MMO with updated graphics and gameplay than what this game delivers.. Why have choices if they really don't matter just seems silly when you look at the big picture.

Ah! The truth comes out.

OP, they never said they were making SWG 2. SWG 1 failed, nobody wants to make a new SWG. It is what they said it would be...KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

swg's in many ways did fail but in many was a success it made it through several expansions and many years either way I get that's not what this game is about and not what they wanted all I'm saying is how this game was implemented me personally would of rather had a nice single player kotor 3 and a star wars MMO where I could pick from dozens of races be anything I wanted to be. Galaxies had its issues but pre CU it had a great open skill system and you had a ton of options.

 

SWG had around 350k subs until the NGE came along.  That was pretty successful in those days, and would even be a moderate success nowadays.  It was one of the most successful MMOs at the time, but not as successful as SOE was hoping for, given the IP.

 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3376

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

11/28/11 10:10:50 PM#20

Question:  When you played it did you feel like you were not effecting the world?  I felt like every choice I made effected my story and thereby >the world< 

With technology like Phasing and instancing its really easy to tell an epic story where your choices actually effect the game world, which is what they did.

So I don't see where your complaint comes from at all.

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